Passed over for promotion

[lamaupin]

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Hello everyone and good evening,

I was just passed over for promotion to CDR. A lot of people told me they were surprised, as I was I was double board certified (one specialty and one fellowship). My FITREPS were excellent, and far above my reporting senior’s average. I know nothing is guaranteed, but it’s still upsetting. I was hoping for some information/advice, if I may:

1. Even though I am double board certified, I am still a resident (until Friday), and I am listed as a resident. My senior officer says that it a likely reason. I know no one can say for sure, but is that a likely reason?

2. I am going to another command once I graduate. I would appreciate any advice about what to do at my new command. Does this mean that I would definitely get a bad FITREP?

3. If I don’t select again, do I have to get out, or do I meet a continuation board?

Thank you everyone for all your help, and have a wonderful night!

 

[Gastrapathy]

Sorry this happened to you. @pgg has shared his story. This happened with fair regularity a few years ago and to some truly excellent physicians. A common theme is outservice fellowship and the NOB FITREPs basically putting you back a year. It’s terribly unfair and moving to a new command will compound the situation. You will need to sit down early on with your reporting senior and have a frank discussion.

However, more likely than not, you’ll pick up next year and put on CDR only a few months late. This will shift your zone and that can be a blessing as it makes gunning for O6 less practical and will likely make you decide to be a termander (the best rank in navy medicine).

You should have your file reviewed by someone with board experience. There probably aren’t any red flags but it’s worth checking.

Finally, the timing here is awkward. Your next and likely only new FITREP is coming in Oct (barring a COC). There was lots of discussion a few years ago about how to handle that for graduating in service fellows in your shoes. My opinion is that a ranked EP graduation fitrep is better than a just arrived fitrep. So, I recommended extension letters. A senior leader who I respect disagreed and he said to push the next command for a ranked MP after a few months. Take that for what it’s worth (we both had board experience, he had more but not as recent). If you are going to get a P from the next CO, definitely ask for an extension letter instead.

And, not likely to matter, but you’ll almost certainly get to retire as an O4 if you desire.

 

[lamaupin]

Thank you very much. I edited as you suggested as well. Have a good night and thanks again!

 

[backrow]

Lots of great folks are getting passed over for CDR at the first look these days. It definitely sucks and I don’t necessarily agree with it, but it’s the hand we are being dealt right now.

I would agree that your current trainee status put you at a disadvantage, especially if you don’t have a utilization tour (not sure your exact situation on that front).

You mention excellent FitReps but don’t say if they were EPs. If they weren’t EPs as a trainee who was ranked against only other trainees then that probably hurt as well.

As to what to do....well your graduation or transfer fitrep is already written and hopefully that’s an EP and best case would be a ranked EP and not just a 1 of 1.

What to do at the new command is going to be highly dependent on what is the current status at that command of the O4 pool. It will be extremely difficult to get a competitive MP at the new command as a new check-in, so I agree that a letter of extension off a competitive EP is better than a P in October that you will likely get. If there is “room” in the O4 pool at the new command then a detaching EP followed by a competitive MP at the new command would be great. In order to even have that be a chance you need to sit down with your new Dept Head ASAP upon arrival and they need to start advocating to your Director as the October fitreps will probably be due in August/early September.

Even if all that falls through I think you still have a good chance of being selected next year. Most I know that were passed over at first look picked up on the second when they had these “different” situations like yours.

 

[lamaupin]

Hello Backrow,
Thank you for your advice. I had two EPs in a row prior to the board. My departing FITREP is another EP. I had a utilization tour for my last specialty but obviously not this one. I was ranked top 3 of all GME trainees at the MTF. I know it’s not personal but I feel badly as I feel I must have disappointed all those who supported me. Even my specialty leader wrote me an email to express his support right after.
But thank you for the advice. It is most appreciated!

 

[TheEarDoc]

Well that's no fun. Never good to be passed over for a promotion when you feel you are going to get it, but as others have said it sounds like you'll get it on the next look. As another said, look at it this way, it's going to make the decision to stay or go at the end of your contract easier to think about. Me, I will be 0-4 and on the cusp of 0-5 when my initial contract ends, so it will be stay in longer and hope to get 0-5 at second look in zone, or hop out at 0-4 and say buh bye. Med docs I understand you guys like the rank (and I am not saying it's not deserved for the schooling and training), but some of us in other groups like medical service corps have terminal degrees in our field and 0-5 is pretty much the terminal rank for us even with 15+ years in on top of several years of civilian experience. There is not a thing wrong with being a working 0-5. It keeps you in the clinic more rather than the admin chair a lot of the time and most physicians I know would rather be with patients than writing memos all day long.

Good luck and keep your chin up!

 

[lamaupin]

Hi The Ear Doc,
Thank you for your kind words. I wasn’t worried so much about having the “prestige” of the rank as much as being able to help others more with a higher rank, and supporting my family financially.
I agree about the MSC, I have seen truly amazing people never make O-5, so I guess I don’t have anything to complain about.
Sadly enough, as an O-4 I had a lot of admin (I was service chief for the department for a bit, along with some other positions) but I agree with you that a position where I take care of patients is better than death by PowerPoint or memos! It will also make the decision to get out easier for sure.
I appreciate your kind words and I will keep my chin up! Thank you for reaching out!

 

[TheEarDoc]

Hi The Ear Doc,
Thank you for your kind words. I wasn’t worried so much about having the “prestige” of the rank as much as being able to help others more with a higher rank, and supporting my family financially.
I agree about the MSC, I have seen truly amazing people never make O-5, so I guess I don’t have anything to complain about.
Sadly enough, as an O-4 I had a lot of admin (I was service chief for the department for a bit, along with some other positions) but I agree with you that a position where I take care of patients is better than death by PowerPoint or memos! It will also make the decision to get out easier for sure.
I appreciate your kind words and I will keep my chin up! Thank you for reaching out!

Trust me I understand the reasoning behind it completely! There is always moonlighting (with permission from your chain of command of course!) if you want some extra easy cash! Good luck!

 

[pgg]

First, it's not you.* No one will think less of you for it.

Second, this is ultimately just a speed bump that scrapes the undercarriage, not a dead end, bridge out, full stop catastrophe. You'll select next year.

I was passed over for O5 my first time up, and there wasn't a reason anyone could identify. I was board certified, dept head (albeit at a small command). EP fitrep ranked against peers. Chaired a couple of committees. No red flags, PFA failures, etc. I was deployed in Afghanistan when I got the news, for a little extra insult to the injury.

I got home, asked for the biggest command level collateral there was (Director of Surgical Services) and spent a somewhat painful but educational year at that job before getting a shiny MSM along with selection for O5 at the next board. In the end, beyond the headaches and hassle, it cost me just a few months of O5 pay because I pinned it on about halfway through the fiscal year.

At that point, I made a deliberate decision not to chase fitrep bullets or higher rank. They proved to me that the process is somewhat arbitrary, with an apparently large degree of randomness to it, whatever board sitters will tell you about it. The timing of my retirement eligibility was such that making O6, and accepting the O6 promotion therefore being obligated to stay beyond 20, held little to no financial gain. (We're not line officers, for whom O5 vs O6 retirement is a big deal, who often struggle to translate line skills into post-military careers.)

After I put on O5, I was warned that the timing of the fellowship I was applying for would harm my O6 prospects, and I accepted that. I did the fellowship and am better for it.

I have also been subsequently offered, or encouraged to apply for, a number of major nonclinical collateral duties. I have declined all of them, instead taking on collaterals and projects that interest me. This has annoyed a few of my superiors over time, as they (understandably) are frustrated by a senior O5 who won't willingly join the admin slog. For me, this has been a source of happiness and P fitreps as I approach my O6 in-zone period. I am content with that - truly glad to see the MP and EP marks go to people who aspire to O6.

I am a Termander, and it's great.

I would advise you to do what you must to get to O5 next year. Following that, remember why you're here, and what skills and experience you really want to leave the Navy with. There is a point when you really can opt out (mostly) and just be a doctor. You can't please everyone and you don't have to try.


* As suggested above, have someone else look over your service record to ensure there aren't errors or gaps in it.

 

[lamaupin]

Hello pgg,
Thank you for your kind words of encouragement and sharing your story. I am sorry that you were treated that way when deployed. I have nothing to complain about by comparison.

Also thank you for your advice but my record has been reviewed and apparently there is no gaps. My specialty leader thinks it was because I was still listed as a resident. If that is true it seems very arbitrary to me but I never sat on a board so I don’t know the rationale

I wasn’t staying in anyway past 20 most likely but this helps me with focus. I think you are very wise and your patients are lucky to have you. Thanks again.

 

[backrow]

My specialty leader thinks it was because I was still listed as a resident. If that is true it seems very arbitrary to me but I never sat on a board so I don’t know the rationale
.

To provide some insight on this: residents are in a different competitive fitrep category than staff. This is the way Navy FitReps are set up, the categories include intern, resident, and basic (aka not a trainee) among others. If residents had to compete against staff they would never get good FitRep marks and therefore are tiered separately.

This means the Board has to take into account the fact that a resident Fitrep did not compete against the same peer group and it is unlikely that a resident was doing as much as a non-resident to get an EP. There are so few O4 trainees that are in zone for O5 that it is possible they got an EP more for the purposes of being in-zone than anything else. Now this is absolutely not the situation in all cases, but those are two reasons why a resident FitRep has less impact than a staff FitRep of the same level.

Please done take this is any attack or similar on your particular record and is only meant to be a generalization for edification. It is entirely possible your record is better than some staff who were selected.

 

[lamaupin]

Hi Backrow,
I didn't take it any bad way. Thank you for the explanation and clarification.
I don't presume to judge anyone else or their record but I was told by people up the chain (command) they were surprised who were promoted over me due to what they have done vs me but I wasn't at the promotion board so that's not the whole picture.
Thank you for reaching out and explaining that to me.