Paying for vet school: your monthly loan payment after graduation

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Boophilus

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Anybody ever do one of these for vet school?

How much do u plan to make every month. And how much do u plan to pay every month? I know regardless you'll be doing what you love, but I'd just like to see the numbers. Thanks.

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Look at the average salary for your field, estimate your tuition based on the school you want to attend, and you can come up with your own number. And then look at how that changes based on 10yr and 25yr plans, and then calculate your IBR and dream about that number while crying over the other ones.

Not nearly as much fun to look at someone else's numbers ;)
 
Look at the average salary for your field, estimate your tuition based on the school you want to attend, and you can come up with your own number. And then look at how that changes based on 10yr and 25yr plans, and then calculate your IBR and dream about that number while crying over the other ones.

Not nearly as much fun to look at someone else's numbers ;)
Clearly you just have a top secret plan that has you making way more money than anybody else, and you don't want to share it. Tell me your plan and show me the numbers!
 
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Tell me your plan and show me the numbers!

we're taking a practice management course right now where we need to calculate out our educational debt using a personal finance simulator as part of our final project. i haven't done it yet but i'm sure it will be....interesting.....to see the final numbers :scared:

if you were interested: http://www.finsim.umn.edu/
 
Well, I had to borrow $60k for my undergrad alone and my monthly payments are already $470/month. High tuition and additional debt load is the major reason why I did not apply to many OOS or foreign schools. Consequently, it is also one of the major reasons why I am not getting accepted anywhere :bang:, but I digress.
 
Well, I had to borrow $60k for my undergrad alone and my monthly payments are already $470/month. High tuition and additional debt load is the major reason why I did not apply to many OOS or foreign schools. Consequently, it is also one of the major reasons why I am not getting accepted anywhere :bang:, but I digress.

Yea I hear ya. By any chance did you calculate the difference in the monthly payment for in state vs out vs foreign after all is said and done?
 
Well, I had to borrow $60k for my undergrad alone and my monthly payments are already $470/month. High tuition and additional debt load is the major reason why I did not apply to many OOS or foreign schools. Consequently, it is also one of the major reasons why I am not getting accepted anywhere :bang:, but I digress.

Same here. I applied only to VMRCVM (IS) and NC State (where I was a resident for 22 years & get IS after a year). I didnt get an interview at VMRCVM and I doubt I will get state but I just cannot imagine going OOS or overseas unless totally necessary. I cannot stomach taking out such huge loans not only for tuition but also enough for living expenses for me and my 5 year old. so stressful! :( But as you, I digress!
 
Yea I hear ya. By any chance did you calculate the difference in the monthly payment for in state vs out vs foreign after all is said and done?


Go here and plug in some numbers: http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml

The reason no one is throwing out numbers, is that it varies hugely by how much your school costs, and subsequently how much in loans you have to take out. And then based on your repayment plan time frame with 10 and 25 years being the standard repayment periods.

So look up the school you have in mind, and then plug the numbers into that calculator. You can assume the first $162,000 to be at 6.8% interest, and anything after that at 7.9% interest.

So if you took out $150,000, you would be looking at $1,726 per month for 10 years, or $1,041 per month for 25 years.
 
Yea I hear ya. By any chance did you calculate the difference in the monthly payment for in state vs out vs foreign after all is said and done?

No, I haven't. Frankly, I'm kind of afraid! ha.

Knowing that most out-of-state schools are at least double (~$40k/year) my in-state school (~$20k/year) is scary enough for me. Add in living expenses and the numbers are even more daunting. For international schools, add things like travel, sometimes a higher cost of living, and... :eek:
 
To be clear, I am not a vet student and I do not even consider myself pre-vet at this point. I know nothing about the vet field or vet school or the cost of vet school.

There is a good chance these numbers are completely useless (and probably misleading) so take this with a grain of salt. Again, I think it would be great if people with actual experience could share their own real numbers. Maybe it’s too personal. I think it would be a great resource though.

Below are the numbers for 1) the total cost of vet school; 2) total monthly expenses after graduation; and 3) the total amount left over each month, considering salary (minus taxes, retirement, interest on loan). This is where you're at after graduation if you went through entirely on loans.

I used this financial simulator to do it, from squeegee. The numbers shown are for the average out of state and in-state tuition with 10-year and 25-year repayment plans. I used the average in-state and out of state tuition reported in Wikipedia for 2008. For living expenses, I used $20,000 based on a guess. The average salary used was $70,560, which is the default used in the simulator. Interest rate at 6.8% is the default in the simulator (I imagine students have different loans with different rates, but only total debt is considered here at 6.8%). I also imagine salary increases over time, but no idea by how much or how to account for it in the simulator.

The interesting part is the number for ‘Income in excess of expenses’. This is how much money you have each month considering total expenses and salary. Expenses included loan payment, social security and retirement (which I don’t understand and which is at $430/month default), rent, utilities, and groceries. I used bare minimums for pretty much everything. Utilities set at 100, groceries at 150, rent is more reasonable at 1,000. I set credit card debt to zero, do not consider a car (gas) or car payment, and other things like child care and entertainment are also zero.

The numbers:

Out of state school/10-yr repayment plan
Tuition + living expenses: 50,0000/year (30K+20K)
Total amt. borrowed: 200,000
Interest: 6.8%

Monthly payment after graduation: 2,302
Total amt paid: 276,193
Total interest paid: 76,193

Total expenses: 48,424/year; 4,035/month
Net income after taxes: $50,054
Income in excess of expenses: $136/month


Out of state/25-yr plan
Total amt. borrowed: 200,000
Interest: 6.8%

Monthly payment: 1,388
Total amt paid: 416,443
Total interest paid: 216,443

Total expenses: 37,463/year; 3,122/month
Net income after taxes: $50,054
Income in excess of expenses: $1,049/month

In-state/10-yr plan
17,000 + 20,000 = 37,000/year
Total amt. borrowed: 148,000
Interest: 6.8%

Monthly payment: 1,703
Total amt paid: 204,383
Total interest paid: 56,383

Total expenses: 41,243/year; 3,437/month
Net income after taxes: $50,054
Income in excess of expenses: $734/month


In-state/25-yr plan
Total amt. borrowed: 148,000
Interest: 6.8%

Monthly payment: 1,027
Total amt paid: 308,168
Total interest paid: 160,168

Total expenses: 33,132/year; 2,761/month
Net income after taxes: $50,054
Income in excess of expenses: $1,410/month

Out of state 10-year with 60,000 in debt from undergrad (assuming 6.8% and 10-year plan for undergrad debt)
Total expenses/month: 4726
Income in excess: -555

Out of state 25-year with 60,000 in debt from undergrad (assuming same as above)

Total expenses/month: 3812
Income in excess: 359

In state 10-year with 60,000 in debt from undergrad (assuming same as above)
Total expenses: 4127
Income in excess: 44

In state 25 year with 60,000 in debt from undergrad (assuming same)
Total expenses: 3451
Income in excess: 720

Summary:
If you go out of state, and you want to pay off your loans in 10 years, you’ll have $136 left over after expenses each month. If you do it over 25 years, you’ll have about $1K extra every month-- but over that time you paid around 140K extra in interest.

If you go in-state, you’re looking at $700/month on the 10-year; and 1400 with the 25-year. You lose around 100K, going with the 25-year plan.

If you decide to go out of state and then pay over 25 years, that decision costs you about $100K (total amt. paid out of state: 416K vs 308K in-state). And every month after graduation you have about $400 less to spend than the guy that went in-state (if you're salaries are the same)

Out of curiosity, I ran it with an additional 60K in debt from undergrad. Looks rough, but doable, I guess.

Again, it would be great if somebody with experience could go over this. It takes 5 mins to generate these numbers using the simulator that squeegee provided.

If any of this is even close to reality, what's the plan to take this on. It would be awesome if somebody could thrash everything out and lay down their plan for being the most successful (and financially comfortable) vet on the planet. Will you specialize, etc?

P.S. out of state vet school is rough...
 
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Remember that not everyone will end up this deep. I'm not taking out extra for rent, food, utilities, car payments or anything like that. Nor do I have undergrad debt.

I'm curious what your interest in this is if you're not vet or pre-vet?
 
Remember that not everyone will end up this deep. I'm not taking out extra for rent, food, utilities, car payments or anything like that. Nor do I have undergrad debt.

I'm curious what your interest in this is if you're not vet or pre-vet?
the rent is your rent after graduation.

im interested in vet school but i dont know enough yet to consider myself pre-vet.
 
the rent is your rent after graduation.

Ah, I see. Well, my husband will probably still pay it then, too. :hungover:

im interested in vet school but i dont know enough yet to consider myself pre-vet.

And the numbers you've just crunched haven't scared you off?

If no, then try and substantiate that. If the answer you come up with is, "I really can't think of anything else I could do with my life that would make me as happy as vet med," then welcome to the dilemma of so many people on this thread.
 
I really dont think those numbers are too particularly helpful though either. Given they are from 2008, and the average tuition hikes have been around 6% per year. They are probably around 20% low across the board, and will be much higher by the time a non pre-vet would even get around to applying.

And as I said before, any loans over ~160,000 will be at 7.9% because you will be into grad plus loans since you will have exhausted your stafford limits.

There is also a fairly fairly large standard deviation when it comes to vet school tuitions that makes looking at the mean pretty useless. For in-state on the lower end some schools are around $20,000 while others are closers to $45,000 a year for "in-state" students.

All in all, I think it makes generic cost of attendance analysis like this pretty useless when you find the range is anywhere from about $120,000 to $300,000 for a veterinary school education.
 
I really dont think those numbers are too particularly helpful though either. Given they are from 2008, and the average tuition hikes have been around 6% per year. They are probably around 20% low across the board, and will be much higher by the time a non pre-vet would even get around to applying.

And as I said before, any loans over ~160,000 will be at 7.9% because you will be into grad plus loans since you will have exhausted your stafford limits.

There is also a fairly fairly large standard deviation when it comes to vet school tuitions that makes looking at the mean pretty useless. For in-state on the lower end some schools are around $20,000 while others are closers to $45,000 a year for "in-state" students.

All in all, I think it makes generic cost of attendance analysis like this pretty useless when you find the range is anywhere from about $120,000 to $300,000 for a veterinary school education.

Dude, u gotta pick a number at some point and that's when the average is useful -- this is just an estimate. I read that vet students graduate with the worst debt:salary ratio of all the medical professionals. I have no idea what that actually means until i see the numbers, so that's what I did here.

I think there are a couple useful conclusions. If you have 60K in debt from undergrad, out of state vet school is not affordable after graduation with an average salary. I think that's significant. So you have to go in-state; and even then you're probably forced to take a 25-year repayment plan, and you probably have to work a part-time job on the side. And you just blew over 300K on your education, of which 160K was in interest. These are obscene amounts of money and your quality of life is terrible (basically no better than a graduate student). In general, I think a lot of people would consider vet school on the whole -- with or without debt, in state or out, 10-year or 25-year -- unaffordable based on these numbers. I had no idea it was that bad. I saw veterinarian on a top 10 jobs list for the future the other day!

You pointed out that average tuition is higher than it was in 2008 and my interest rate is 1% low. If salary is right tho, this just means my numbers are underestimates. So you're actually more in debt, and have less to spend each month.

Is this what it's actually like after graduation? How fast can you start making more money as a vet? In a couple years are you making more and switching over to a 10-year plan, and then it's all good? If you specialize, how do you afford that? Again, it would be great if people could throw up real-world examples.

In the meantime, go patriots!
 
Vet school tuition, 4 yr cumulative total at 7.64% annual increase https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDAmocjP-XddHJmTmtManA0b0FGNXdWY1k2WGVTNnc

Vet school total cost of attendance, 4yr cumulative total at 5% annual increase
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDAmocjP-XddDUxY0wtVFlQaTktNVk5X3lYajhKNWc

These are calculated from actual current tuition with the stated annual increase rate. The 7.64% increase for tuition was derived from the actual tuitions of all the vet schools listed since 1991.
If you are looking at paying out of state tuition, please note that Carribean schools may not be your most expensive option. Also note that out of state tuition at some schools may be less than your in state tuition :)
 
The Veterinary financial expert that we had give a guest lecture last term stated that the Return on Investment for a veterinary education is still good relative to other advanced degree educations, and makes sense even for international tuition.
I was unconvinced, but I guess he was using math that presumes everybody will own their own business and/or be making 6 figures once they have 15 years experience.

Maybe he was just trying not to scare/stress people who had already taken the plunge.


BTW justavet, not sure how that spreadsheet calculates that the COA for PEI is 30k higher than the COA for other canadian schools..
Last time I checked, cost of living was higher in calgary than in charlottetown :D And tuition is close to the same
 
If you specialize, how do you afford that?

That's what I keep asking myself. A year and a half after vet school, my loans are just pushing 160K. I have the rest of residency left (1.5 years), and then likely 4-5 years of PhD work (because so many vet pathology jobs now, stupidly, want you to have a PhD too, but that is another rant)....I'll have to be in forbearance the entire time pretty much. So let's say it takes me six years to finish residency and PhD....6.8% interest rate on my unsubsidized loans....my initial 140,000 in debt has ballooned to between 200,000-230,000


I'll just marry rich. Or become a part-time hooker. Perhaps sell my ovaries or put more effort into my Mexican drug cartel. So many options.
 
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I'll just marry rich. Or become a part-time hooker. Perhaps sell my ovaries or put more effort into my Mexican drug cartel. So many options.

Get a job with a contract, get pregnant as a paid surrogate mother, tell your employer that you are keeping the child and need maternity leave, use your maternity time as a hooker. Repeat.

You'll be debt-free in no time.
 
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Brilliant! Now to get some fake boobies and blow!

You could sell your eggs! A DVM with a PhD should be the highlight in your advertisement.

Okay, is it sad that I'm actually considering this to avoid taking out more loans? I mean, come on, who wouldn't want my eggs?!
 
You could sell your eggs! A DVM with a PhD should be the highlight in your advertisement.

Okay, is it sad that I'm actually considering this to avoid taking out more loans? I mean, come on, who wouldn't want my eggs?!

I know someone (non vet student) that just did that. And a classmate is considering it. Someone in Florida is interested - they would pay her to fly! I think that's nuts, but there's good money to be made and I suppose it's a nice thing to do for someone...
 
we were just talking about egg donation at work the other day...i heard egg donation is actually a more extensive procedure tan people think and can be painful...

some of my coworkers were considering it to help paying off loans and i admit i was tempted but i don't know if it's worth it in the end... :/
 
I gotta agree with WTF here, hooking is way more profitable than selling your eggs. I also saw an article on "sugar babies" yesterday. That sounds pretty damn profitable too!
 
That's what I keep asking myself. A year and a half after vet school, my loans are just pushing 160K. I have the rest of residency left (1.5 years), and then likely 4-5 years of PhD work (because so many vet pathology jobs now, stupidly, want you to have a PhD too, but that is another rant)....I'll have to be in forbearance the entire time pretty much. So let's say it takes me six years to finish residency and PhD....6.8% interest rate on my unsubsidized loans....my initial 140,000 in debt has ballooned to between 200,000-230,000

WTF, is there a reason your not doing Income Base Repayment and shooting for public service loan forgiveness? I would think your time employed as a resident at a university would count toward your 10 years working for a non-profit?
 
WTF, is there a reason your not doing Income Base Repayment and shooting for public service loan forgiveness? I would think your time employed as a resident at a university would count toward your 10 years working for a non-profit?

I've been given the run around on public service loan forgiveness. Even though I am considered a "teacher", I'm not a "teacher" by their standards (ie, I am also a practicing clinician). I could push them more, but I haven't the time. A pathologist working at a referral hospital spending almost all your time performing clinical duties and teaching on the side (ie, on the floor, where you also act as the diagnostician) isn't exactly a teacher. If I taught full-time, I could probably get it.

My current payment on IBR would be $200 a month. That would make only a miniscule dent in my debt that would be swept away anyways, and I would have $200 less per month, which is actually a big deal considering my financial situation. I would rather have that extra $200 around to put into savings for emergencies. I almost had a negative bank balance when I had to get my car fixed to the tune of $1100 a few months ago.
 
The Veterinary financial expert that we had give a guest lecture last term stated that the Return on Investment for a veterinary education is still good relative to other advanced degree educations, and makes sense even for international tuition.
I was unconvinced, but I guess he was using math that presumes everybody will own their own business and/or be making 6 figures once they have 15 years experience.

Maybe he was just trying not to scare/stress people who had already taken the plunge.

Wish I could've seen that. I'd def like to know if vet school is a good investment. I mean it's at least 200K for tution and living expenses + 150K interest + (how much does a vet practice cost anyway?) -- 200K (?) = you're up around half a million. So yea, what's the math on making that back.
 
I gotta agree with WTF here, hooking is way more profitable than selling your eggs. I also saw an article on "sugar babies" yesterday. That sounds pretty damn profitable too!
Liking this option, lol.
 
Wish I could've seen that. I'd def like to know if vet school is a good investment. I mean it's at least 200K for tution and living expenses + 150K interest + (how much does a vet practice cost anyway?) -- 200K (?) = you're up around half a million. So yea, what's the math on making that back.

You're in luck.
This is the guy I was talking about Dr. John Tait
and HERE is a link to a slideshow with audio that he gave at an AAHA conference in 2009 :)
skip to around 20-25 mins when he starts to talk, although the first speaker isnt bad either.
The one problem with this talk is that he uses a debt figure of 100k in his example, which for most is way too small. But he still stuck to his argument when talking about higher debt numbers too when he spoke here.

Someone should link this talk in every finance-related thread on this forum :cool:
But as I said about when I saw him speak, I personally was unconvinced.
 
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You're in luck.
This is the guy I was talking about Dr. John Tait
and HERE is a link to a slideshow with audio that he gave at an AAHA conference in 2009 :)
skip to around 20-25 mins when he starts to talk, although the first speaker isnt bad either.
The one problem with this talk is that he uses a debt figure of 100k in his example, which for most is way too small. But he still stuck to his argument when talking about higher debt numbers too when he spoke here.

Someone should link this talk in every finance-related thread on this forum :cool:
But as I said about when I saw him speak, I personally was unconvinced.
That is a fantastic lecture. Thanks for posting!
 
I did the estimate on my loans and it wasn't pretty even though I'm in-state at a fairly affordable program, and I don't have undergrad loans. I'm just glad that even though I got into a "top-rated" school that I went with my IS instead, if only for the $100K+ difference in debt (and have had a very solid experience where I'm at).
 
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I have been thinking about this a lot lately. Tuition for me (OOS at MSU) for 4 years will probably be around $250k. My parents told me they will pay half. I am going to try not to take out loans for cost of living. I have quite a bit saved and money in stocks that I can liquidate if needed. I will also be working next year, which will give me enough money to pay my rent + utilities every month. My job is very laid back, and I will be able to get a lot of studying done at work, and will always be able to get my shift covered if I am just too overwhelmed (love my job!). So, I will just need money for food (which for me is about $30/wk), gas, and misc. :) I am going to try to use my savings for this. My parents also like to slip me money when I come home to visit. I have been working more this semester than ever before to start bulking up my savings even more. And I will be able to make quite a bit of money this summer at the vet clinic, esp if I get OT (which is likely). That still leaves me with ~$125k (without scholarships) in loans after graduation, and I would like to do a residency, but will probably do IBR to keep my loans from gaining interest out the butt.

AHHHH:scared:
 
Juuuuust gonna repost this. For everyone. To read. And consider.

Yeeeeaaaah....I'm looking into all the loan stuff heavily right now, and I've been able to cross a couple schools off my list of possible options (if accepted to them) just based on the sheer RIDICULOUSNESS of the total Cost of Attendance over 4 years (even if one gains residency after the first year, in some of these cases)!

BTW, interest still accrues if you're doing IBR...so you could end up paying more in interest over time than you would with a standard repayment option.

Looking at some of these numbers.........
.......
.......we're all f*cked. :mad:
 
not sure how that spreadsheet calculates that the COA for PEI is 30k higher than the COA for other canadian schools..
Last time I checked, cost of living was higher in calgary than in charlottetown :D And tuition is close to the same

I used the following figures
PEI Student Handbook, p 17 Estimate of a Year's expenses http://www.upei.ca/avc/files/avc/ish.pdf

http://www.upei.ca/accounting/fees/dvm

Living expenses $16,800 CN
Tuition $11,552 CN resident, $53,487 CN non-resident
Total per year $28,352 CN, $70,287 CN non-resident
At 5% inflation per year, $122,201 CN resident, $302,946 non-resident

What's your take? What'd I miss?
 
I used the following figures
PEI Student Handbook, p 17 Estimate of a Year's expenses http://www.upei.ca/avc/files/avc/ish.pdf

http://www.upei.ca/accounting/fees/dvm

Living expenses $16,800 CN
Tuition $11,552 CN resident, $53,487 CN non-resident
Total per year $28,352 CN, $70,287 CN non-resident
At 5% inflation per year, $122,201 CN resident, $302,946 non-resident

What's your take? What'd I miss?
Well show me your math for calgary, and then we'll see what the problem is..
Same tuition here as there. No possible way that cost of attendance would make up the 30k difference.

Also, our tuition is locked in and won't increase. When PEI tuition increases, it only affects the incoming first year class and future classes.
 
P.S. it's hard to spend time on this forum and not feel guilty about being born canadian :(
Although in our defence, avg income is lower and taxes are much higher if you stay in canada to work
 
On the plus side the Canadians don't need to worry about paying for healthcare.
 
On the plus side the Canadians don't need to worry about paying for healthcare.
Well we do pay for healthcare, it's just a portion of the high taxes that we pay.
So I guess "effectively" the tax difference between US and Canada is not quite as high as it looks on the surface, when you subtract out the portion of taxes that go into paying for our healthcare..
 
Juuuuust gonna repost this. For everyone. To read. And consider.

I totally agree with this. I considered my IS for a long time. After working with grads from both MSU and my IS, visiting both, and comparing curriculum (non-tracking vs tracking), I decided not apply to my IS. Both schools are great, but I feel like I will be more comfortable staying at my undergrad school where I know a lot of professors, classmates, and staff.
 
I totally agree with this. I considered my IS for a long time. After working with grads from both MSU and my IS, visiting both, and comparing curriculum (non-tracking vs tracking), I decided not apply to my IS. Both schools are great, but I feel like I will be more comfortable staying at my undergrad school where I know a lot of professors, classmates, and staff.


How is that agreeing with a statement that supports choosing the cheap option? lol
 
How is that agreeing with a statement that supports choosing the cheap option? lol

As in, I agree you should consider your IS, the cheaper option, but by no means should it be your final decision without looking at other schools first.
 
I totally agree with choosing the cheapest option! We're all going to be in the hole when we're done unless we're lucky enough to have our parents paying or have a significant other to help us out, but if there is a school that you can go to that will save you a ton of money, that's the school I'd go with.

I am going to do everything I can to manage my debt and get out with as little debt as possible. We do have options that can save a lot of money in the long haul. For me, I only applied to a few schools to save money on the application costs and interviews and everything like that. I went with Ohio since it's my IS, Wisconsin, since you can't beat their OOS tuition, and Tennessee because they interview last and I wanted to keep the hope alive if I hadn't gotten good news, even though, I don't think if I had been rejected from OSU and Wisconsin I would have gone to Tennessee this year. I couldn't justify paying double the tuition to save a year waiting to see if I got in IS.

We can do things like living a little further from campus in an apartment complex that is decent priced, get a room mate, get just internet, not cable, you can watch a lot of shows on the computer. You can eat in instead of eating out all the time. Consider how close to home you are too and how often you plan to go home. For me, I'll be just 2 and a half hours from home so I can get home and back on less than a tank of gas, which isn't too expensive for my little Toyota Corolla.

When I see people going to some of the expensive OOS schools, I'm just like :eek:, I couldn't imagine paying an extra 20-30,000 a year to go to school OOS.

My point is we all have choices, and yes we'll all be in the hole in the end, but how deep the hole is depends on your choices.
 
So like, what was the point again?

.........are you messing with me, girl?

Anyways, I agree that you should really consider your cheapest option, but the cheapest option isn't always best and everyone has their own circumstances. So, you don't always have to go the cheapest route, but still consider it.


Okay, so maybe I don't really agree with the entire statement. :lame:
 
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