Pbl

[mdoclau]

what's everyone's thoughts on PBL? I kind of like it

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[MaximusD]

Never considered it.

I've heard mixed things on SDN...

but a lot of people love it..

 

[GreenShirt]

I think it's great! Why sit in lecture all day hearing an outline you're going to have to learn by yourself later anyway? I think PBL gives yo a great clinical context and you have time to study and exercise each day, since you're not sitting in lecture the whole day. I'm guessing that when you start clinicals/residency nobody's going to hand you a chart and say "You need to review topics A, B and C". You'll have to figure it out on your own. PBL mimics that learning style.

 

[HarveyCushing]

At least for me, I really like programs that incorporate both PBL and systems based approach. Just seems to make the most sense to me. I think it will prepare me not only for the boards, but also for 3rd/4th years unlike the old way of just the core science courses

 

[DragonWell]

what's everyone's thoughts on PBL? I kind of like it

I am nearing the end of my first year at a mostly PBL school and I am very pleased with what I've learned so far. I do think it was a good idea to have certain classes - anatomy, histo and embryo - in an accelerated lecture format first to lay out a basic foundation for understanding PBL cases, so I guess I agree with the above poster that some kind of combo approach is probably best.

There are different approaches to PBL; the one used at my school is almost like independent study. We have PBL for a couple hours three times a week, and spend those sessions discussing labs and identifying the basic science important to understanding the case. As we unravel the case, we pretty much read and study on our own. The PBL sessions are not used as "study time", we are expected to walk into the session having read everything we can find which is relevant to the case so far and to be ready to roll. The sessions move pretty quick, so it is never boring and if you have a clinician as a facilitator, they will give you a lot of interesting details you won't find in any book as you go through the case.

Obviously, from the above description, learning in this environment requires a lot of self motivation, and a willingness to accept that as you work through the case, you will end up studying a lot of things which probably won't be on the test. Although each group decides on general learning issues - ie autonomic pharm, or the basal ganglia, there is no one telling you what you need to know about each subject - it is up to you to go to your resources and figure out what to learn. This is a great strength of PBL - while it is comforting to have lecture notes which tell you exactly what you need to know, it also limits what you study. I have a pretty good memory, so if given the notes, I am likely to spend my time memorizing them rather than reading the textbooks. Instead, by the end of this year I will have read several basic science texts from cover to cover, and will hopefully finish the rest by board time. I feel like this is giving me a more well rounded base in medical science than simply focusing on memorizing notes. It is a lot of reading though - our last test covering 8 cases and 6 weeks of PBL covered almost forty chapters of material from neuroanatomy, immuno, phys, and pharm. This is in addition to OMM, Clinical Examination, and other mini classes. So for anyone that thinks PBL is the "easy" route, well...

As I always say, to each their own - the most important thing is figure out how you learn and find a school which fits you.

 

[Porco Rosso]

Here is how I would make consideration:

1. are you a self-motivated? studied on your own for mcat and killed it?
2. what is the track record of the program at specific school?

If the school has an established history and worked out the many kinks, I would definitely look into it. Overall, I would prefer a program that integrates both PBL and lecture styles. Not sure how the med schools will do this since students already spend most of the time in lectures.

At the same time, lectures are not always 8-5. there are always plenty of breaks in the schedule throughout the week.


I say, let's have best of the both worlds...

 

[Porco Rosso]

isnt most schools moving toward an integrated approach?

 

[GreenShirt]

isnt most schools moving toward an integrated approach?

I think that's definitely the trend. However, it's more difficult to make the change at established schools, since it requires overhauling everything and the faculty don't want to re-invent their syllabus.

 

[MedDO101]

Can someone list the schools that employs the pbl type cirreculum?

 

[DragonWell]

Can someone list the schools that employs the pbl type cirreculum?

LECOM-Bradenton is the only DO school where everyone is in a PBL curriculum.
Schools which have a PBL track for some students include LECOM-Erie and WVSOM. I think KCUMB and OU have some PBL integrated, and UMDNJ has a PBL track every other year or some such deal. These are the schools I have heard about, there may be more, since a lot of schools say they "integrate PBL" into their curriculum. If you're interested in a particular school, I'd start here.

 

[nvshelat]

LECOM-Bradenton is the only DO school where everyone is in a PBL curriculum.
Schools which have a PBL track for some students include LECOM-Erie and WVSOM. I think KCUMB and OU have some PBL integrated, and UMDNJ has a PBL track every other year or some such deal. These are the schools I have heard about, there may be more, since a lot of schools say they "integrate PBL" into their curriculum. If you're interested in a particular school, I'd start here.

Nycom is in its 2nd year of PBL so far. I like it.

 

[builttorock]

ATSU COM-Mesa is PBL and systems

 

[DragonWell]

Nycom is in its 2nd year of PBL so far. I like it.

How many folks are in NYCOM's PBL track? Do you go through any of the curriculum via lecture or is it all PBL? How do you do tests in PBL? Just wondering how it compares to LECOM's setup...

 

[GreenShirt]

Here's what I know:
-Rumor has it that Tuoro-MI is incorporating PBL into their curriculum.
-DMU and some others have portions that are PBL.
-ATSU-Mesa has group learning, but it's not officially being called PBL. -LECOM-Erie/Bradenton are the only schools I know of that have full PBL options.

 

[Seger]

I kind of get what the gist of what this approach is all about, but for what exactly does PBL stand?

 

[mdoclau]

I kind of get what the gist of what this approach is all about, but for what exactly does PBL stand?

problem based learning

 

[lrobin15]

I kind of get what the gist of what this approach is all about, but for what exactly does PBL stand?

PBL = Problem Based Learning

Is that what you were asking?

 

[Seger]

PBL = Problem Based Learning

Is that what you were asking?

Yeah, thanks....I wasn't aware of the acronym/abbreviation.

 

[nvshelat]

How many folks are in NYCOM's PBL track? Do you go through any of the curriculum via lecture or is it all PBL? How do you do tests in PBL? Just wondering how it compares to LECOM's setup...

32 in each year, so we do 4 groups of 8 w/ 2 facilitators in each group. Some facilitators are MD/DOs, others are PhDs. Our lecture component (along with our lab component) is only for anatomy and OMM. To make up for areas where we would possibly need a lecture, we have "problem sets" where we get together and talk about a homework assignment. Our tests are a mix of essay, fill in the blank, matching, mc, short answer, etc. For our last test I think we were tested on 4 or 5 cases, but it was expansive material (cardiac, pulm, renal). We submit the learning issues for each exam, and the common ones among each of the groups are the ones that we get tested on.

It seems as though what I've done so far this year is read most of the chapters in Guyton, skimmed over most of clinically oriented anatomy, most of histology, a lot of biochem (thats getting intense right now), and the intro chapters of robbins and immuno (I use Janeway) and some microbio. We also do the pertinent drug class for each case. We've been lacking, as a class, in embryo - it should've been linked in with anatomy more.

Once or twice a week we go and hang out with doctors - depending on the doctor you get paired with, you can do a lot or watch a lot. I've run some EKGs, drawn some blood, felt pitting edema, yadayada. That same day, we also do some stuff with simulated patients or a dummy we have named STAN that responds to epi, blood, O2, etc. Once a week we also have a clinical skills seminar where we do various stuff - this is what wheezing sounds like, this is a murmur, etc. At the beginning it meant nothing of course, but know that I have a background in physio and know a little path, it sticks.

How's LECOM's PBL treatin ya?

 

[GreenShirt]

Anybody watch the TV show House? I think the way the residents solve the cases on the show is similar to PBL. They convene in a room to discuss the case, throw out ideas, write diff. diagnosis on the chalkboard, then they order the tests and reconvene to re-evaluate the case. Dr. House acts as the "facilitator", he guides the residents but lets them figure out things on their own. I'm crazy about the show, but if you want to get an idea of what PBL is like watching it might give you the gist.