PCAT success vs Pharm school success

[Serenity Now!!!]

Hi guys, I have a quick question concerning PCAT success translating into success in PHARm school...hopefully i'll get in this app. cycle, although nothing is guaranteed I know. I got a 99 composite on the PCAT however, (and I am not trying to start anything) I thought it was very easy. Ill add the caveat that I had studied my a$$ off and used several test preps. I was so prepared that I didnt even have to work out many of the Quant questions b/c I had already done the questions will studying. Anyway my question is...does this success translate into succes in school since being a standardized exam it can be possible to do very well w/out actually grasping the concepts being tested. (im not suggesting thats my problem but I want to know from Pharm students who may not have gotten really high PCAT scores but kickin' a$$ in Pharm schools or 90+ PCAT scorers struggling...)Case in point: many people simply take the PCAT for "practice", knowing that many of these questions are repeated year after year.

I hope my question is clear, and thanks for any feed back

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[gordo0878]

Here are my 2 cents!
Everything that you did in undergrad does NOT apply in pharm. school. It’s a different world here. The only thing that I can think that might translate into success in pharm. school is study habits you might of pick up in undergrad.

I also got a 98 on my pcat and I had a competitive GPA with a BA in biomedical science and those things haven’t helped me one bit here.

Obviously, you need a good gpa and pcat score to get into pharm school but that it.

There are classes that if you done well in the past that might help you in pharm school (ex. P.chem, B.chem, Physio and other upper level science courses) And then you still have to retake them in most pharm. school but from my experience they are a lot harder here.


good luck

 

[dgroulx]

Nothing you learn in pharmacy school is on the PCAT, so it's not a good indicator that way. It is a way to separate the students who at least learned the material and retained it. There will be a lot more to learn, retain and understand in pharmacy school. If you're not capable of doing that with the basic sciences on the PCAT, then you won't do so well in pharmacy school.

The reading comprehension score would be indicative of a person being able to read and understand graduate level textbooks. When I look back at my undergrad books, they seem so simplistic.

 

[Serenity Now!!!]

Thank you guys (or ladies...not trying to assume) You just confirmed what I thought. But the first post brought up an interesting point (although he/she did it indirectly) Usually one would need both a good PCAT and GPA but there are schools that just look at the PCAT scores...or at least give a lot of weight to it. conversely, some schools only look at your GPA. Why??? It seems almost arbitrary. Ive read threads where people are almost guaranteeing posters that they'll get in with an 80+ PCAT score. I dont understand this.

Sorry Im just trying to contribute to a more enlightened discussion...the "what are my chances?" threads in the Pre-Pharm forums are starting to bore me Please indulge me if you will

 

[gordo0878]

That question is too complicated. There are many factors that school look at. This is a business, they aren’t here to teach you out of the goodness of their hearts they are here to make money, students are the investment for the school. They obviously choose students that will most likely graduate so the can charge you the 100 g's you will owe after graduation. This may be crude but it is the truth. I never heard of school that just look @ one thing or the other.

Example, two students may have the same GPA but one is a science major and the other is an educations major, not to insult education major’s but it’s not the same thing. Or one may have a BA and the other has only taken the requirements. Or they may have the same pcat but one student got A’s in those science courses while the other received C’s and repeated those courses.

The bottom line is you’re a needle in a hay stack you have to make your self look appealing to school, and a good pcat score and a competitive GPA make students stand out from the crowd.

 

[Trancelucent1]

Well I'll use my self as an example. I had a 3.7 overall and a 3.64 science GPA w/ my BS in Biomedical Sciences. I scored an 82 on the PCAT (granted I didn't study nearly as much as I should have). My first year GPA in Pharmacy school was a 3.44 and I made the Dean's list in the spring semester (3.5 GPA). My fall semester of second year I made a 3.0. I know that there are some people in my class who had upper 90 PCAT scores and are not doing as well. I think a better indicator could be whether you have a BS (just from personal experience) and what your GPA was before entering pharmacy school. Another factor is where you took your pre-reqs. There are a few people in my class that went to CC's and are having a really hard time handling the amount of material as well as the intensity. I think there are many factors and it's really based on each individual student. Good luck.

 

[crossurfingers]

I have a friend who got a 75 on the PCAT (I scored over 10 points better than her) and she is kicking my arse in classes. We get the same grades but I have to study maybe twice as much.

 

[ButlerPharm.D.]

The PCAT only tests whether you have retained the information that you were taught while taking the necessary pre-reqs. On a related note I believe recent research has shown that there is no correlation between the ACT and success in college. I believe, if I remember correctly, that a student who scores a 23 on the ACT is predicted to be a C student in college. There are many variables that can not be controlled or taken into account on a standardized test such as the PCAT or ACT/SAT. However, the PCAT does a better job at predicting success in Pharmacy school than does simple guessing so we continue to use it. If you go to the following webpage you can read an article in regards to whether your score on the PCAT is indicative of your success in Pharmacy school. The conclusion of this article seems to be that, "The PCAT, [is] widely viewed as a predictor of performance in the first professional year". (The best predictors for the first professional year were OVERALL-GPA (pc=0.380, p<0.001), PreP-GPA (pc=0.357, p<0.001), and PCAT (pc=0.199, p<0.001). This research was conducted at Texas Tech SOP.

 

[bananaface]

I got a 99 PCAT and my grades suck.

I'll gradute though.

 

[calrx]

I read somewhere (probably on here!) that some pharm schools are purposely accepting "lower" PCAT scorers to see how they actually succeed in pharmacy school as compared to high scorers. I heard that Temple plans to do this for its incoming 2006 class. Have you guys heard anything similar?

 

[highlyfavored]

I read somewhere (probably on here!) that some pharm schools are purposely accepting "lower" PCAT scorers to see how they actually succeed in pharmacy school as compared to high scorers. I heard that Temple plans to do this for its incoming 2006 class. Have you guys heard anything similar?

I haven't heard this, but I'll be glad to participate in this "study"

 

[OSURxgirl]

Undergrad GPA w/ BS.......3.67
PCAT Composite........97
Current Pharm School Overall GPA.......2.79
GPA this past fall quarter........2.30
Graduating by the skin of my teeth in June 2008......Priceless!!!

 

[calrx]

I haven't heard this, but I'll be glad to participate in this "study"

Haaaa, I know, seriously. Where do I sign up?

 

[BiOGoly]

Is it just me, or is there something seriously fishy with the PCAT bell curve? As far as I can tell the number of people reporting scores of 99% is WAY higher than mere probablity would suggest. I understand that there is such a thing as the "SDN" effect, and people with higher scores are more likely to post than people with lower scores. However, 99%tile is pretty damned significant. If this test IS truly normalized than only 1 of 100 test takers should make that score. You don't see the numbers of people reporting the equivalent to a 99%tile score in the MCAT or DAT forums, for instance...

I took the PCAT in fall 03' (before the recentering) and got a 260 composite, which was the 99%tile. I spoke with someone else who had a 245 composite and it was also the 99%tile! I'd certainly like to believe that I could score four standard deviations from the mean (200) on a professional school entrance examination, but honestly I'm just not that smart.

As many people have stated the PCAT isn't a very challenging test (three questions and answers on my test were exactly the same as the practice booklet), but this should actually put downward pressure on high percentile scores. The GRE math subtest for instance has a high of 80%tile, because 20% of all test takers receive a 100% score! I don't know what methodologies the Psychological Corp. is using to normalize the PCAT, but it just doesn't add up.

 

[dgroulx]

I remember someone posting a PCAT score in the 20s. There are also lots of people on SDN who do not post their scores at all.

I'm in Mensa, a club that requires an IQ score at or above the 98th percentile. That's only 1 in every 50 people. A 90% PCAT is only 1 in every 10 people. That's not so weird.

 

[Serenity Now!!!]

I remember someone posting a PCAT score in the 20s. There are also lots of people on SDN who do not post their scores at all.

I'm in Mensa, a club that requires an IQ score at or above the 98th percentile. That's only 1 in every 50 people. A 90% PCAT is only 1 in every 10 people. That's not so weird.

Dont forget, even if someone DOES report a 99% it doesnt necessarily have to be true...So it really isnt a very scientific procedure to go by what people say on SDN

 

[dana92085]

i think that the smartest people are also on this board. i really do. we are dedicated.

 

[Requiem]

i think that the smartest people are also on this board. i really do. we are dedicated.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH.

 

[bananaface]

The people who score lower also tend not to post their scores publicly.

 

[kwizard]

The people who score lower also tend not to post their scores publicly.

In my opinion there is no definitive relationship b/w PCAT scores and success in pharmacy school. To me everything in pharmacy school vary's w/ that person's responsibilities and insight about the situation.

Otherwise stated, whenever you figure out that you aren't in undergrad anymore and that you have to be able to "up the bar" and consume large amounts of information in short periods of time and balance the classroom in addition to any other responsibilities you may have outside of the classroom (i.e. job, paying the bills, family, dating life, etc.) as the avg pharmacy student is at least in their early to mid 20's and will typically have more "real life" distractions then and 18 or 19 yr old.

Manage all of this while facing the reality that if you don't succeed academically the threat of being put out of school typically means thinking about a new career choice to pursue for the rest of your life vs coming back next semester like in undergrad. Nevermind the potential 90-110k/yr you could be loosing out on if you don't succeed. So manage and appreciate these factors and you'll do well in pharmacy school.

Being a good pharmacist is more associated w/ learning how to apply the information learned in school and being able to relate that on a higher level to other healthcare practitioners, but also being able to translate all those medical terms into words that can be understood by your pt population.
Last but not least you have to continue the balancing act of life vs. profession.

I can't remember what I got on the PCATs. Heck if you go straight into practice (vs academia, grad school, and/or residency training) no one will care what your GPA was the day after you graduate as long as you pass the boards.

 

[dgroulx]

In my opinion there is no definitive relationship b/w PCAT scores and success in pharmacy school.

That's because everyone who got into pharmacy school already had a good PCAT score.

 

[museabuse]

I remember someone posting a PCAT score in the 20s. There are also lots of people on SDN who do not post their scores at all.

I'm in Mensa, a club that requires an IQ score at or above the 98th percentile. That's only 1 in every 50 people. A 90% PCAT is only 1 in every 10 people. That's not so weird.

Ok I have to ask... I never took an IQ test.... Do you pay someone to take one? What is the point? What benefits do you get from being in Mensa, besides saying you are in it? I am just curious because maybe I have a high IQ? Should I find out what my IQ is?

 

[KUMoose]

Ok I have to ask... I never took an IQ test.... Do you pay someone to take one? What is the point? What benefits do you get from being in Mensa, besides saying you are in it? I am just curious because maybe I have a high IQ? Should I find out what my IQ is?

From my experience, being in MENSA is akin to a Caligulan orgy for intellectually elite. You can find out what they offer here. And before my chops get busted, yes I qualify as a member, but after meeting the chumps locally I decided I had better things to do with my money.

 

[highlyfavored]

I don't know what methodologies the Psychological Corp. is using to normalize the PCAT, but it just doesn't add up.

I second that!!

 

[loo]

ZERO.

It's all about study habits, attention span, adaptability, and attitude. If you have good study habits, decent attention span, ability to adapt, and a relatively positive attitude---you are golden.

Don't sweat the small stuff!

Good luck to you

 

[museabuse]

From my experience, being in MENSA is akin to a Caligulan orgy for intellectually elite. You can find out what they offer here. And before my chops get busted, yes I qualify as a member, but after meeting the chumps locally I decided I had better things to do with my money.

Thats cool but what made you test your IQ? I assume it costs money, and unless you are trying to get into mensa I don't see the point to take the test.

 

[dgroulx]

Ok I have to ask... I never took an IQ test.... Do you pay someone to take one? What is the point? What benefits do you get from being in Mensa, besides saying you are in it? I am just curious because maybe I have a high IQ? Should I find out what my IQ is?

Yeah, I paid for the Mensa test in 1985. I didn't feel like writing to the school board to get my school IQ scores, so I just took another couple of tests.

I went to the testing session out of curiosity during a regional gathering. What I found were people who were like me. I go to games night, where we play games until 2-3am. We meet for lunches, dinners, parties and just about everything. I've met some of my best friends through Mensa.

I'd describe it as a club where everyone is smart, but there is lots of variation in political views, jobs, education, etc. Here's our local web site. http://www.tampa.us.mensa.org

 

[Vandykitten]

Your study habits seem good enough -- if you maintain those same habits, Pharmacy school might not be a 'cinch' but it definitely will make life easier.

You can't really draw too much of a parallel between the PCAT scores and actually being in Pharmacy school because not only does each program vary, but the types of classes will deviate from your basic sciences. It is always good to have a foundation in the sciences (as the PCAT tried to cover) but the application of the sciences is what matters ultimately.

 

[CatSpam]

NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING will make up for good old work ethic. The biggest problem I see with hight GPAs and PCATs is that it lulls these recipients into a false sense of security. You absolutely need to be in a full panic mode the full time you're there. I haven't been accepted yet but am already gearing myself up mentally and physically to approach this endeavor as an undertaking similar to a typical NAVY seals level of intensity.

Good luck, buena suerte, bon chance.

CatSpam