Pedo match stats

[Dr. Pedo]

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Man... I am going to get killed for this one.

But there are two big reasons I see for the increase:

1. Misdirected maternal instinct. 50% of all dental students are now girls and the pedo residencies are absolutely bombarded by women fast approaching 30 with no kids, no husband, and no real prospects. People joke about the biological clock, but it is real and it is tick.. tick... ticking away.

2. $$$$ People are seeing that pedo is making HUGE money right now. I mean, new grads are STARTING at a quarter mill to associate!!!! HOLY CRAP! 😱 It's a two year, well paid residency and you are doubling to tripling your earning power. That is an amazing return on investment.




I am really not in any place to pass judgement on other people's motivation, but there is something about #2 that really bothers me. I know money is a major motivator in all residencies, but I just hate the idea that future pedos are doing it for the money.

(As much as everybody goes on about "doing it for the love of the specialty," the direct correlation between the earning power of a specialty and the competition to match into that specialty is undeniable.)

I couldn't care one way or the other if somebody is doing endo because they love searching for that 4th canal or for the $800/hr they get because they can find it. It's all good to me. But the idealist in me wants all the pedos in the world to be doing it because they love children and want to help.

I'm not saying that making huge money and loving kids are mutually exclusive. But at my school I see the part about wanting to help kids as a pretty minor sidenote to the money issue. And it bugs me.

No reason to fear! You have some valid points that when logic prevails, can't be disputed. The $$$ is ridiculous but definitely not worth it if kids aren't your thing-----trust me on this one. You can get away with it in nearly every other specialty but pedo is not the place if $$ is the only attraction. People fail to see that pedo is based solely on numbers: we don't have pricey procedures and therefore we need to do a lot of inexpensive procedure to make ends-meet. A successful pedo practice is seeing 40-60 patients a day 😱 . Not only that, they must continue to see this amount for life to continue to earn that amount of success. This is completely unlike any other field. Ortho: a doc can take more complex cases which in return stabilizes their income without having to increase patient flow. Endo: well they are just plain wealthy. OMFS: definitely don't see 60 patients a day.

So the money is fantastic, the work-load unbelieveable, the parents can be atrocious, the foot has to be on the pedal to keep the income, the kids can be difficult, the stress can be intolerable, and in the end; money is relative. I don't want to make the specialty sound horrific------because I think pedo is the only way to go. But if you are doing it for the wrong reasons you couldn't have picked a worse specialty. The specialty will chip-away your facade and expose you rapidly. 😀

The other attraction I feel is the increase in popularity and competition. Pediatric dentistry is the 'hot' field; everyone is talking about it, GP's are asking for more pedo docs, cities can find enough of them, hospital love the quick money our GA cases give them, the complexity of the disease in children is beyond the scope of practice and not cost-effective for many GPs--- nor do they have the speed or personnel to complete treatment efficiently, and who the heck likes the screaming 1-3 yo in their office. That's why nearly 90% of GPs think the first appointment for kids should be 3 years old 😱 . Now that is scary but reasonable when considering pre-cooperation. If you're still interested give me a PM and we can talk.

 

[ItsGavinC]

bumping for more discussion. 😀

 

[Narcissist]

No reason to fear! You have some valid points that when logic prevails, can't be disputed. The $$$ is ridiculous but definitely not worth it if kids aren't your thing-----trust me on this one. You can get away with it in nearly every other specialty but pedo is not the place if $$ is the only attraction. People fail to see that pedo is based solely on numbers: we don't have pricey procedures and therefore we need to do a lot of inexpensive procedure to make ends-meet. A successful pedo practice is seeing 40-60 patients a day 😱 . Not only that, they must continue to see this amount for life to continue to earn that amount of success. This is completely unlike any other field. Ortho: a doc can take more complex cases which in return stabilizes their income without having to increase patient flow. Endo: well they are just plain wealthy. OMFS: definitely don't see 60 patients a day.

So the money is fantastic, the work-load unbelieveable, the parents can be atrocious, the foot has to be on the pedal to keep the income, the kids can be difficult, the stress can be intolerable, and in the end; money is relative. I don't want to make the specialty sound horrific------because I think pedo is the only way to go. But if you are doing it for the wrong reasons you couldn't have picked a worse specialty. The specialty will chip-away your facade and expose you rapidly. 😀

The other attraction I feel is the increase in popularity and competition. Pediatric dentistry is the 'hot' field; everyone is talking about it, GP's are asking for more pedo docs, cities can find enough of them, hospital love the quick money our GA cases give them, the complexity of the disease in children is beyond the scope of practice and not cost-effective for many GPs--- nor do they have the speed or personnel to complete treatment efficiently, and who the heck likes the screaming 1-3 yo in their office. That's why nearly 90% of GPs think the first appointment for kids should be 3 years old 😱 . Now that is scary but reasonable when considering pre-cooperation. If you're still interested give me a PM and we can talk.

Pediatric dentistry is like a minting machine.One dentist wrote me about the "California Experience" in pediatric dentistry and said that the prophy fees for kids <15yrs were typically the same as adults--$55-$75. Prophys (supragingival polish in CA could be done by RDH's along with x-rays and an initial or periodic exam and would gross about $100- $125 for the dentist.So as stated in the above post doing 40 patients per day doesnt sound too much.......who is actually doing the prophys andstuff ...the hygienist, while the pedodontist only does hygiene check in these patients along with other restorative/extraction work.

Typically 2-3 prophys could be done in 1 hr by one asst. Many Ped DDS's typically use N2O2 for ALL procedures adding another $40-$50 per pt visit. Many pediatric dentists in CA gross about $600k +/year.

When this individual was looking for a position, one dentist told this individual that they could expect to gross $1M in about 3 yrs out of residency.

Moreover, I was told that few ped DDS's in CA see medicaid and if they do it's up until age 5.

This is an impressive business model. Any thoughts about this scenerio?

 

[ItsGavinC]

This is an impressive business model. Any thoughts about this scenerio?

I agree that it's an impressive model, but I don't think it should overshadow the oral needs of the kids. I have the feeling that sometimes it does.

 

[Dr. Pedo]

Pediatric dentistry is like a minting machine.One dentist wrote me about the "California Experience" in pediatric dentistry and said that the prophy fees for kids <15yrs were typically the same as adults--$55-$75. Prophys (supragingival polish in CA could be done by RDH's along with x-rays and an initial or periodic exam and would gross about $100- $125 for the dentist.So as stated in the above post doing 40 patients per day doesnt sound too much.......who is actually doing the prophys andstuff ...the hygienist, while the pedodontist only does hygiene check in these patients along with other restorative/extraction work.

Typically 2-3 prophys could be done in 1 hr by one asst. Many Ped DDS's typically use N2O2 for ALL procedures adding another $40-$50 per pt visit. Many pediatric dentists in CA gross about $600k +/year.

When this individual was looking for a position, one dentist told this individual that they could expect to gross $1M in about 3 yrs out of residency.

Moreover, I was told that few ped DDS's in CA see medicaid and if they do it's up until age 5.

This is an impressive business model. Any thoughts about this scenerio?

Impressive business model-----keyword----business model. Yes, we are unfortunately or fortunately business owners first and that sometimes as Gavin said-----overshadows the needs. We like to call the above "business model" the "The Prophy Palace" .

 

[ItsGavinC]

So what are all the soon-to-be peds residents up to?

 

[dentalman]

Getting ready to move. Looking for an apartment. And my wife has already found a job. Yeah! Oh, and trying to turn in every last chart I have, and looking for teeth for endo on the boards.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Any others who wish to share their stats for those of us just beginning the application process?

 

[Narcissist]

Any others who wish to share their stats for those of us just beginning the application process?

Which places are you planning to apply to....I mean really interested ??

 

[ItsGavinC]

Which places are you planning to apply to....I mean really interested ??

Oh, I've got a nice list of 25 programs. My PASS is submitted and most of my supplemental stuff has been submitted as well (except for the few programs that never seem to answer their phones or return emails). 🙂

 

[totalballistic]

my stats.

Specialty/Where: Pedo 2yrs
Year Earned DDS: 2006
NBDE Part I: 97
Class Ranking: NA
Match/Non-Match:Match
Externship(s): 1 (1week)
Research: none
Extracurriculars: lots of community service,
Programs applied to/Interviews received/Interviews Attended/Ranked programs: 18/10/8/8
Matched to my #1

good luck to everyone!!! pedo rocks!

 

[ItsGavinC]

Programs applied to/Interviews received/Interviews Attended/Ranked programs: 18/10/8/8

Any thoughts as to why 8 programs didn't grant you interviews?

 

[totalballistic]

Any thoughts as to why 8 programs didn't grant you interviews?

couple of things.. many preferred 1 year experience gpr/aegd, some were notorious for granting interviews moreso to people from their school, maybe it was my lack of research. all i can say is you can't please everyone.. but once you have an interview it's an even playing field.. it's all about personality. 🙂

 

[ItsGavinC]

Thanks for your response. Getting interviews is the goal right now! 👍

 

[Cold Front]

Many pediatric dentists in CA gross about $600k +/year.

Sheesh!... that's a lot of bones!

How much do fresh pediatric dentists start off with? say after they are done with pedo residency.

 

[capisce?]

Sheesh!... that's a lot of bones!

How much do fresh pediatric dentists start off with? say after they are done with pedo residency.

It depends on the region, and I can comment on the southeast and cali. I know a resident in cali who is making a guaranteed salary 1500$ a day (meaning if he sees 2 patients in one day like he did his first week he still gets paid). You can do the math.

I know a friend in GA who fielded offers from b/w 200-250k. I know in NC there are some offers for 200-250k. I think maybe average would be upper 100s to low 200s but it really depends on a number of factors. Most are production based so if the patient population is big enough for you to get your fill it will depend on your speed out of the box.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Sheesh!... that's a lot of bones!

How much do fresh pediatric dentists start off with? say after they are done with pedo residency.

The associate offers here in the Phoenix area for those fresh out of school are 250-320k. I don't think that is the nationwide norm at all, but probably 50-60k above the norm.

 

[Demeter]

2 of my friends in Pedo already have job offers of 225K and 250K.

 

[Dukie]

Just got my NBDE scores and didn't do as well as I had hoped (I'd rather not share my scores here). Obviously, better scores allow for more interviews, but what are considered acceptable scores? I noticed some mid 80's getting a number of interviews. I'm pretty sure I will have excellent recs from a top school. Any thoughts? Feel free to PM me if you prefer. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Sommy]

It sounds like you have plenty of time to try the test again. After all, it seems you took it earlier than many students do, if you aren't able to apply until the cycle after next (08). I would try it again, if I were in your shoes. I think that scores get interviews more readily than recs, but of course I don't know anything for sure. It is such a mystery...

 

[Dukie]

It sounds like you have plenty of time to try the test again. After all, it seems you took it earlier than many students do, if you aren't able to apply until the cycle after next (08). I would try it again, if I were in your shoes. I think that scores get interviews more readily than recs, but of course I don't know anything for sure. It is such a mystery...

This is true, but there is always the risk of doing worse or even possibly failing (though I think this is unlikely). I'm sure noone knows exactly, but how are other factors weighed? ie- reccs, GPA, activities, research, leadership, etc

 

[setdoc7]

There are absolutely some pedo programs which will not admit you with a GPA under 90% and boards under 90%. There are also some programs which rely a great deal on the interview, and grades are less important. Some programs will not admit you if you are a PGY2. How's that? It revolves aound GME money. Go figure.