penn (70k total) vs. Harvard (210k total)

[ointment]

Hello!

I'm faced with a hard choice - Penn versus Harvard. Interested in a surgical subspeciality, probably, and definitely in academia. Would love to be a clinician-educator.

Penn:
+ much lower price (would pay 70k total)
+ this part of Philly is nice and not too expensive
+ better weather than Boston, slightly
+ would get to live in apartment instead of dorm
+ yummy new buildings!
+ enjoyed the people that I met on interview day, a lot
- non-mandatory classes and people living all spread out ... lack of community?
- less recognition in non-medical communities
- 1.5 year preclinical curriculum vs. HMS's 1 year
- was non-P/F until recently ... competitive? Also, NON P/F clerkships

Harvard: (would have to pay 200k total)
+ that damn name recognition, I would feel really proud and fulfilled, I think
+ mandatory classes and dope curriculum, flipped classroom
+ lots of current students that I know and enjoy & a seemingly strong community
+ true, true, true P/F, only relevant clerkship grades reported
+ fantastic queer community and mentorship
- living in a dorm
- intense, outspoken students, potentially
- but really, that fkin cost

Both are a distance from home/family where it doesn't really matter. I'm feel really, really drawn to the Harvard name. Would it be insane to pay that much extra for that. I WANT to choose Harvard, but I’m not sure I want it bad enough to give myself this debt. I’m really struggling with this decision and if somebody could help me reach clarity, it would be greatly appreciated.

I would love perspectives from anybody on this.

Thank you!

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[Grapesurgery]

Disclaimer: R at Harvard post-II, accepted to penn. I won’t make a vote but wanted to add some discussion points-
-Boston winters are definitely more brutal. More snow and sub zero days for sure.
-Harvard 1yr curriculum sounds nice, now that step is p/f. More focus on clinicals. True p/f grading also sounds very nice.
-You will be at a prime position for an academic career at either institution.
-While the debt accrued in the amount of 150-200k is a MASSIVE undertaking and requires serious thought (don’t forget compounding interest, so it will be somewhat more) the reality is you will be in a position to pay it off (eventually) in your career. Will take likely years, lifestyle changes (esp. important if you plan to start a family around your early career), added stress knowing you have a hefty debt, etc., which are serious cons, but if you choose this path you can and will pay this off in time. Only you can really answer if it is worth it to you. You earned these top choices so do not let anyone tell you that you are blatantly wrong/unreasonable to pay that sticker price for Harvard if that is what you do choose, should you decide an HMS education is that much more rewarding/fulfilling than the knowledge you will be more financially comfortable at penn. For reference, and whatever it’s worth, average medical school debt is ~230k. You seem to still be below that at both schools. Congratulations and best of luck!

 

[Med.Geek]

Disclaimer: R at Harvard post-II, accepted to penn. I won’t make a vote but wanted to add some discussion points-
-Boston winters are definitely more brutal. More snow and sub zero days for sure.
-Harvard 1yr curriculum sounds nice, now that step is p/f. More focus on clinicals. True p/f grading also sounds very nice.
-You will be at a prime position for an academic career at either institution.
-While the debt accrued in the amount of 150-200k is a MASSIVE undertaking and requires serious thought (don’t forget compounding interest, so it will be somewhat more) the reality is you will be in a position to pay it off (eventually) in your career. Will take likely years, lifestyle changes (esp. important if you plan to start a family around your early career), added stress knowing you have a hefty debt, etc., which are serious cons, but if you choose this path you can and will pay this off in time. Only you can really answer if it is worth it to you. You earned these top choices so do not let anyone tell you that you are blatantly wrong/unreasonable to pay that sticker price for Harvard if that is what you do choose, should you decide an HMS education is that much more rewarding/fulfilling than the knowledge you will be more financially comfortable at penn. For reference, and whatever it’s worth, average medical school debt is ~230k. You seem to still be below that at both schools. Congratulations and best of luck!

This....TL;DR: You have more noteworthy pros for HMS; seems like your heart is with this school. Sometimes you gotta pay a little extra for what you want. And based on what I read, you value community. The community at HMS is the primary reason I picked it over other, similar caliber schools. We'll pay off the debt later

 

[ointment]

-While the debt accrued in the amount of 150-200k is a MASSIVE undertaking and requires serious thought (don’t forget compounding interest, so it will be somewhat more) the reality is you will be in a position to pay it off (eventually) in your career. Will take likely years, lifestyle changes (esp. important if you plan to start a family around your early career), added stress knowing you have a hefty debt, etc., which are serious cons, but if you choose this path you can and will pay this off in time. Only you can really answer if it is worth it to you. You earned these top choices so do not let anyone tell you that you are blatantly wrong/unreasonable to pay that sticker price for Harvard if that is what you do choose, should you decide an HMS education is that much more rewarding/fulfilling than the knowledge you will be more financially comfortable at penn. For reference, and whatever it’s worth, average medical school debt is ~230k. You seem to still be below that at both schools. Congratulations and best of luck!

hey, thanks for this input! It's great stuff. I'm just keeping fingies crossed that hms gives me aid that allows me to make this decision without too much guilt.


Also, wow, I'm surprised this is like neck and neck in the poll. Sound off!! what are you all thinking

 

[meronebib]

I would choose Penn, but I understand the desire to choose Harvard. I don’t think it’s worth >200k, especially when compared to a school that will likely help you land a spot in your top choice residency anyway, but that’s not my choice to make. I think most medical students emphasize the importance in the name of their degree, but really, 10-20 years down the road, no one is going to care about your medical school. After all, it is not the training in medical school that will be what’s most relevant to your specialty of choice—you’ll be lucky if you get to tie a suture during medical school!

If medical school name helps with anything, it will be with getting you the residency you want, and your residency/fellowships will hold the most importance. But Penn and Harvard are practically equivalent in this regard. So, you see, if you go to Penn and end up at MGH v/s if you go to Harvard and end up at MGH, it will all be the same. Except you will be ~300k richer (after interest) coming from Penn. And yes, that is a lot of money, especially for someone who wants to go into academia.

 

[Pluto98]

I would choose Penn simply because you want to go into Academia. You will be taking a big pay cut to do that vs private practice and so the debt you accrue will hinder your quality of life for many many years. Not worth it. I would say go to HMS if you plan to go into private practice and can afford to pay it back much faster

 

[ointment]

Updated this post with financial info. Still pretty unclear about this situation and would love more discussion.

 

[A_Knowbody]

Firstly, congratulations on two amazing opportunities!

I think you’re overvaluing the Harvard name for medical school, especially given your career goals. Both institutions will give you the opportunity to enter academia in a competitive speciality. And once you end up working at an academic medical center, your pride will be from your institution as a professor of X at Y SOM, not from earning your medical degree from HMS vs. Penn.

With that being said, it sounds like the name will make you happier in the short term, HMS offers a community that will improve your QoL, and the true P/F > Penn’s system. Spending 130k for these benefits isn’t unheard of.

I voted for Penn since I don’t think the money is worth the above benefits. As discussed above, 130k is not a small difference and would require lifestyle sacrifices. I think the true P/F and name recognition are marginal benefits in comparison to Penn. The better community is something to strongly consider, but I think you could still build a community and be happy at Penn.

 

[jessicajonesharvard]

"I would feel really proud and fulfilled, I think"
Go for it. You can't buy or sell this feeling.

 

[proudofmykids]

I would choose Penn, but I understand the desire to choose Harvard. I don’t think it’s worth >200k, especially when compared to a school that will likely help you land a spot in your top choice residency anyway, but that’s not my choice to make. I think most medical students emphasize the importance in the name of their degree, but really, 10-20 years down the road, no one is going to care about your medical school. After all, it is not the training in medical school that will be what’s most relevant to your specialty of choice—you’ll be lucky if you get to tie a suture during medical school!

If medical school name helps with anything, it will be with getting you the residency you want, and your residency/fellowships will hold the most importance. But Penn and Harvard are practically equivalent in this regard. So, you see, if you go to Penn and end up at MGH v/s if you go to Harvard and end up at MGH, it will all be the same. Except you will be ~300k richer (after interest) coming from Penn. And yes, that is a lot of money, especially for someone who wants to go into academia.

Even with the updated $130K difference, this post quoted above 100x.

PD ranking

 

[deleted393595]

Hello!

I'm faced with a hard choice - Penn versus Harvard. Interested in a surgical subspeciality, probably, and definitely in academia. Would love to be a clinician-educator.

Penn:
+ much lower price (would pay 70k total)
+ this part of Philly is nice and not too expensive
+ better weather than Boston, slightly
+ would get to live in apartment instead of dorm
+ yummy new buildings!
+ enjoyed the people that I met on interview day, a lot
- non-mandatory classes and people living all spread out ... lack of community?
- less recognition in non-medical communities
- 1.5 year preclinical curriculum vs. HMS's 1 year
- was non-P/F until recently ... competitive? Also, NON P/F clerkships

Harvard: (would have to pay 200k total)
+ that damn name recognition, I would feel really proud and fulfilled, I think
+ mandatory classes and dope curriculum, flipped classroom
+ lots of current students that I know and enjoy & a seemingly strong community
+ true, true, true P/F, only relevant clerkship grades reported
+ fantastic queer community and mentorship
- living in a dorm
- intense, outspoken students, potentially
- but really, that fkin cost

Both are a distance from home/family where it doesn't really matter. I'm feel really, really drawn to the Harvard name. Would it be insane to pay that much extra for that. I WANT to choose Harvard, but I’m not sure I want it bad enough to give myself this debt. I’m really struggling with this decision and if somebody could help me reach clarity, it would be greatly appreciated.

I would love perspectives from anybody on this.

Thank you!

Pick Harvard. When it comes to clinical grading and matching, you'll be glad. Significant intake into the MGH system.

Why put yourself through the pain of Penn instead?

 

[blurb_123]

150k isn’t worth it between 2 top 5 schools...

 

[ointment]

Something I’ve thought about more recently is that ... seems like Penn people have a LOT more fun. Which complicates things.

 

[Pluto98]

Something I’ve thought about more recently is that ... seems like Penn people have a LOT more fun. Which complicates things.

why do you think that?

 

[deleted947265]

I'm just saying you seem like you're deadset on Harvard, so I would go with that. Most of your negatives aren't really negatives. There's no rule saying you have to live on campus. You're going to be a doctor so what's 200K debt? YOLO. If your classmates are outspoken and obnoxious don't hang out with them.

Congrats.

 

[ointment]

why do you think that?

(Virtual) Interactions with current students at revisit events

 

[Medapplicant19]

Something I’ve thought about more recently is that ... seems like Penn people have a LOT more fun. Which complicates things.

Hi! I’m no help because I’m making a similar decision but very curious what makes you say this?? Can you expand more?

 

[SLC]

Penn

Cooler city, closer to nyc and dc. I’d actually move to Philly, less so with Boston.

The cost difference is no joke, as someone paying off Med-school loans right now.

Both of these are elite places that gan get you on track to do exactly what you want with your career.

I did my residency in Boston metro area, I’d still pick Philly.

 

[Klyx]

One thing other posters haven't touched on is the grading system. P/F grading makes a big difference in your stress level, availability for social events, and flexibility to do cool projects. You're not just paying an extra $130K for the name and fulfillment; you will most likely have a more enjoyable 4+ years in school. To answer your question, no, it's not crazy to choose Harvard in this case.

 

[DoctwoB]

Honestly you’re crazy if you don’t take penn and 130k (>200k after interest). We’re talking about freaking Penn, not for profit DO U here. There is literally 0 opportunity at Harvard that Penn will not provide. And there plenty of specialties where it would be BETTER to be from Penn then Harvard. And while that extra 3k/month in loan payments may not be a huge deal to the private orthopod In St. Louis, it would be a third of your take home salary as an academic ID doc. Keep your options open, maintain flexibility, god only knows what medicine will look like in 15 years. Take it from a graduating resident. In 6 years you will not care at all that your school was P/f or A/B or 1.5y preclinical. You’ll care about that debt balance.

Congrats dude, you win the game. You can go to a top school for peanuts. Don’t fumble at the goal line.

 

[Yhwach]

You seem deadset on Harvard. I originally picked Penn but changed it. Go where you want to go and don't regret it.

 

[birdred23]

Two amazing options don’t think you can go wrong with either one. It sounds like going to harvard will give you a greater sense of fulfillment. would caution against conclusions from a few virtual interactions. I am sure they are students who are having fun at Harvard as well. Also, as previously mentioned, the truly p/f nature would lend itself nicely for you to explore all of your interests outside of the classroom!

 

[ointment]

Y'all, thank you for your input! After thinking about it a LOT, I'm pretty sure that I'm going to commit to Penn. I think the money is super important, but I've also connected well with the current students. I think I'll miss the p/f clinicals at HMS, but I won't miss it enough to be worth ~140k

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

 

[ointment]

Okay, backtracking ... HMS is now about 70k more expensive than Penn (70k vs. 140k) and, in a wild turn of events, I'm going to commit to HMS. This feels like a dream come true and I am so, so excited! Thank you for all of your advice (and overwhelming push towards Penn and the money!!!). What it comes down to, for me, is that my heart is a flutter when I think about going to HMS. And, the people I've met at Penn have been great, but so have the people at HMS. Hard decision!! But, if any future students read this and want to talk, feel free to message me