Penn or Western?

[zjc]

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Penn or Western, which would you choose and why...

 

[Ole84]

Penn or Western, which would you choose and why...

i would choose penn, and heres why. penn is an established, school with great resources. also the location is appealing. western has a great program, but pomona isnt really nice. also pbl is a system that may not be for everyone. depending on what you want to get out of your education, you will have to weigh the pros and cons for each program

 

[JustCats]

Penn or Western, which would you choose and why...

I would choose Western for two reasons: 1) I love L.A.; 2) I'm a problem-based learner.

I'm a bit worried about Western because of their Banfield affiliation. I don't like Banfield. If you're comfortable with Banfield, that shouldn't be a factor for you.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[mdnghtdnc]

I would choose Western for two reasons: 1) I love L.A.; 2) I'm a problem-based learner.

I'm a bit worried about Western because of their Banfield affiliation. I don't like Banfield. If you're comfortable with Banfield, that shouldn't be a factor for you.

Good luck with your decision!

I am also not a fan of Banfield but it really isn't that bad. I am in my first year at Western and have only been in their clinic three times. (That would be to do my four hour rotations there). There is only a two week rotation or three week rotation ( I can't remember exactly) in the third year. So you actually don't have a lot to do with Banfield...so no need to be worried!!!

As far as my choice I would also choose Western. I hate sitting in lectures and having information crammed down my throat day after day. I like going out and researching the information and the learning style makes sense in the fact that you are learning just one subject at once.... you get to see how everything is interconnected.

As far as the previous poster.... I was from PA and I can tell you that Penn once you leave campus is also not in a good area. At least in Pomona the surrounding areas are very nice and only about 10 minutes from school. The being well established is true of Penn but Western being only around for a short while has a great reputation already and has just submitted new stats the recent graduating class had an 86% pass rate on the NAVLE....average for vet schools is just over 90%. Keep in mind that Western has only graduated 3 classes..... so that is pretty impressive. Accredation is scheduled to take effect in May of 2012, and any class previous to that falls under the umbrella of graduating from an accredited school.

Ultimately you have to be the one to take into consideration what style of learning is better for you!!!!

 

[JustCats]

Thanks for telling us that. I wasn't sure how much of a factor Banfield was going to be considering all of the work Western students do with local clinics and groups.

I am also not a fan of Banfield but it really isn't that bad. I am in my first year at Western and have only been in their clinic three times. (That would be to do my four hour rotations there). There is only a two week rotation or three week rotation ( I can't remember exactly) in the third year. So you actually don't have a lot to do with Banfield...so no need to be worried!!!

 

[TurtleLover]

I would choose Penn because I am on the Western waitlist and would like to go there myself . Lol.

 

[chris03333]

I would choose Western for two reasons: 1) I love L.A.; 2) I'm a problem-based learner.

I'm a bit worried about Western because of their Banfield affiliation. I don't like Banfield. If you're comfortable with Banfield, that shouldn't be a factor for you.

Good luck with your decision!

I don't particularly like Banfield and I graduated from Western. You are not bound and tied to a Banfield life if you go to Western. Actually I was happy to get the hands on experience in my first 2 years.

 

[zjc]

I have tried to establish pros and cons for each school, but they are so different it makes it difficult. Here are some of my thoughts/concerns:

1)What happens if Western loses their accreditation while I am there?
2)Western definitely gets the nod in my opinion for location. I like that there is so much to do in the area in terms of city life and outdoors activities being near by.
3)I think I would like PBL, but can it really teach you the material in the same detail that a traditional system can?

Any thoughts on these points would be really helpful. I am leaning toward Western but keep second guessing myself.

 

[bunnity]

I know I am always saying this, but which is a better choice for you financially?

 

[LLIPPY]

Hi zjc,

I think this is a sensitive subject depending on where people will go. I will tell you my opinion as a person who did her post bacc pre-med program at Penn for almost 3 years and I worked in the Vet ER as a nurse AND now I am going to Western CVM 2013 🙂.

As far as accreditation goes, you have NOTHING to worry about! Western is now on limited accrediation. Which means really nothing to students. ALL it means for the school is that they are ACCREDITED BUT they will have a site visit in 2 years as opposed to 7. FULL accrediation means everything is in order and the school will have another site visit in 7 years. So, the question is why is Western on limited status? They are a brand new school, they have very quickly gone from provisional accrediation to lmited, which is a step up. They are on limited accrediation now because AVMA wants more research from them and more faculty. As of now, UT and LSU are both on limited accreditation as well. I interviwed at UT as well and they are on limited accrediation because they need to re do parts of thier large animal facilities, and thats it! It does NOT effect students AT ALL. NOW, for your real concern, IF Western somehow managed to lose its accredidation all together (which it wont) you will still graduate as if you are accredited! As long as you were accepted when the school is accredited you will be considered coming from an accredited school. This is called being grandfathered in.

As far as location, I can tell you Philly can be fun, but small. And if you walk 10 blocks in one direction from penn..prob not even you are not in a good area. Even though peopole say pomona isnt wonderful, the security at campus is and no one really lives there! I think you have the idea right as far as Cali is concerened.

Now, I have worked at Penn. It was a great experience, but the students truly dont get hands on experience until the later years. They also tend to pick more based on grades rather than experience so going into clinics isnt always a smooth transition for some of them with no experience. They have a great reputation, but is that everything? If you want more about that, PM me 🙂

As far as PBL, Im scared too! But we all are. Western isnt going to set any of us up to fail. I think you have to decide what you might like better there. You are responsible for how much you can and will learn. You can sit in a lecture for hours, doesnt mean you will learn everything there is to know.

Hope this helps a bit. Keep us updated 🙂

 

[CatVet2Be]

I would also choose Penn because it has a better established program. They've had more years to work out the kinks and figure out what kind of teaching leads to a better prepared graduating class. Western hasn't been around long enough and they are still working things out including their prereqs to apply (which I believe are going to be different for the next application cycle). I think Western can graduate some wonderful well prepared vets (I have a family member who is one of those 😀) but at the moment the vet students coming out of Western are getting mixed reviews from many of the vets I know. I work in San Diego and have had the opportunity to talk to vets who have directly worked with Western students during their internships and their current feeling is that they are not as well prepared as students from other schools. That could be a skewed perception because they work with a small percentage of those students but those are the real life opinions I've gotten from those already in the field. That said, I think that overall, becoming a great vet has more to do with the individual and the amount of work they put in than simply on the school they graduate from.

 

[sunnex3]

ah you're so lucky you even have the choice of going to penn!
that's my ultimate goal right now...

 

[robeezy08]

I would also choose Penn because it has a better established program. They've had more years to work out the kinks and figure out what kind of teaching leads to a better prepared graduating class. Western hasn't been around long enough and they are still working things out including their prereqs to apply (which I believe are going to be different for the next application cycle). I think Western can graduate some wonderful well prepared vets (I have a family member who is one of those 😀) but at the moment the vet students coming out of Western are getting mixed reviews from many of the vets I know. I work in San Diego and have had the opportunity to talk to vets who have directly worked with Western students during their internships and their current feeling is that they are not as well prepared as students from other schools. That could be a skewed perception because they work with a small percentage of those students but those are the real life opinions I've gotten from those already in the field. That said, I think that overall, becoming a great vet has more to do with the individual and the amount of work they put in than simply on the school they graduate from.

I've worked in San Diego as well, as a vet tech in an emergency/referral center that takes interns from around the country, and have heard the same thing about Penn graduates...esp when it comes to having hands on experience, which (if your SA) they get very little exposure first two years. I think both schools has advantages and disadvantages and ultimately, like many on here have stated, it's up to you to decide which type of learning environment you will most benefit from.
I'll be attending Western this fall and think that my hands on exp will help me relate to the cases better and therefore, understand the material much much better rather than sitting through hours of lecture.
Good luck in your decision!

 

[nonvideas]

One thing that no one has mentioned is that you can go to Penn, sit in lecture all day and absorb everything or absorb nothing - and then still go to the library and research whatever you want and learn on your own. Not long after I started at Penn, I figured out that I learn very poorly by sitting in lecture and studying powerpoints for exams. So I started doing independent reading - Wikipedia, textbooks (on the subjects I could stand reading textbooks about), and a lot of scientific papers. I got as much hands on experience as I could outside of school. It's not an either/or kind of thing. I'm sure that if I went to Western I would find myself wishing people would sometimes just lecture to me and let me be lazy. No system is perfect, and you get out what you put in.

There are a lot of disadvantages to Penn. The biggest advantage, as I see it, is learning from a lot of the absolute experts - the guys (and girls) at the forefront of their fields. I don't think Western comes close, in that regard, despite the other advantages Western may have.

 

[InanOven]

penn is ranked 4th in the nation by the U.S. News & World report (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/vet/search) of course western is not ranked . . . probly cause it's so new. For me, I feel like i've done very well in traditional learning situations and wouldn't want to switch it up now... also it is what you make of it. Is one cheaper? Western is private so i can't imagine it's cheap . . . can u establish residency in penn??

 

[bunnity]

penn is ranked 4th in the nation by the U.S. News & World report (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/vet/search) of course western is not ranked . . . probly cause it's so new. For me, I feel like i've done very well in traditional learning situations and wouldn't want to switch it up now... also it is what you make of it. Is one cheaper? Western is private so i can't imagine it's cheap . . . can u establish residency in penn??

Haha Penn is not cheap either. I believe OOS is around 40,000. For Pennsylvania you are considered OOS for all four years. You can, however, choose to defer, move to PA, establish residency through working, and then matriculate as IS. Even then you're paying the 32,000 IS tuition.

FWIW Penn is my IS and I loved it when I visited (and I will be attending). It is a great school but it is definitely not cheap.

 

[eatpinkpenguins]

In terms of networking at your vet school (especially if you want to do GP or work for a year before residency etc) you might also want to consider if you ultimately want to end up in the northeast or in CA.

 

[jglovicz]

I know reputation isn't everything, but aside from the UPenn faculty (I'm sure many of which are the head of their field), my feeling is that you'll have more connections when you're done. Congrats to being accepted into both! In the end you should go with your heart.

 

[BobDog]

I've worked in San Diego as well, as a vet tech in an emergency/referral center that takes interns from around the country, and have heard the same thing about Penn graduates...esp when it comes to having hands on experience, which (if your SA) they get very little exposure first two years. I think both schools has advantages and disadvantages and ultimately, like many on here have stated, it's up to you to decide which type of learning environment you will most benefit from.
I'll be attending Western this fall and think that my hands on exp will help me relate to the cases better and therefore, understand the material much much better rather than sitting through hours of lecture.
Good luck in your decision!

I would be interested to know how much hands on experience people get at other schools, and how much experience in the first two years helps to make you an awesome intern. Just for my own curiosity. I visited several schools for interviews, and it seemed to me that most schools give you close to the same amount of practical experience in the first 2 years. Here at Penn the hands on experience is mostly contained in the first year intro to clinical vet med labs, but there are plenty of other opportunities to get your hands on animals if you want. In fact, as I type this I am pulling an all-nighter doing neo-natal intensive care for a canine muscular dystrophy colony at the medical school. All the hands on experience you can handle from whelping to bottle feeding to physical exams right in your backyard. Plus the excitement of being involved in cutting edge gene therapy research with some of the best researchers in the world 😀 Just one of the reasons that I love Penn.

 

[pyxystyx]

Hi zjc,


Even though peopole say pomona isnt wonderful, the security at campus is and no one really lives there!

They have a great reputation, but is that everything?

Uhm,... a couple things. First, yes A LOT of people live in Pomona who attend Western. Especially if you're coming from out-of-state, you most likely won't be used to the high prices and the ridiculous Rents charged in the surrounding "better" areas. That or you'll have to be reeeally lucky to get a cheap place.
Oh an FYI, the "Helix" student housing is practically on-campus, so I'd deffinitely say that people live there.

Secondly, reputation isn't everything, but IMHO, when you're talking about your graduate school education, it means A LOT.
As someone else on here mentioned, a lot of Doctors already in the field have a less-than-impressed view of the students coming out of Western. (Just what I've heard from most Vets I've worked with)

Just to give you an idea... a close friend of mine applying this cycle asked one of her Doctors for a LOR, and she said she would only write her one if she DID NOT apply to Western. (My friend didn't want to go there anyway, and wasn't planning on applying there) But that's just how strongly some people in the field feel about it.
I could say lots of stuff, but basically,... if you really feel it's right for you, and you're comfortable defending your education from there, then I say go for it. But, if you'd rather not... well... I'd say Penn. 🙂

 

[eatpinkpenguins]

you also may want to look at the "love it, hate it PBL" thread on the vet forum. MrCows3 wrote

"I am currently at Western and I can tell you that I'm not crazy about the 100% PBL method. It is a tremendous amount of work, and the cases contain a plethora of information. ie. Renal Failure in a cat, its up to you to decide what would be important to know in order to diagnose such a case, such as anatomy of all the renal system, physiology, tox, path, and on and on. It wouldn't be so bad if the school gave you a list of what you should have learned like a review sheet, but they don't , so you don't find out if you missed anything till the day of the exam. The good part is that this anxiety forces you to be exposed to far more than you probably would be in a traditional curriculum, the bad part is that you could easily miss something important and focus on something that isn't that important. Overall however, I think the curriculum is good, its just extremely painful and takes some getting used to."

 

[robeezy08]

I would be interested to know how much hands on experience people get at other schools, and how much experience in the first two years helps to make you an awesome intern. Just for my own curiosity.

From Western website re: companion animal wellness center -
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]The purpose of these clinics will be to teach and to train veterinary students, who are in their first two years of the professional curriculum. Each student will see the same patients/clients ~4 times per year for routine physical examination, wellness care, client communications and medical records practice, etc. These facilities are fully-equipped pet wellness care clinics with laboratory, pharmacy, medical imaging, and surgery capabilities..

Plus the excitement of being involved in cutting edge gene therapy research with some of the best researchers in the world 😀 Just one of the reasons that I love Penn.

Now I haven't started vet school mind you, but my overall impression is that Western's program is geared towards those who want to become general practitioners. I'm not sure how difficult/easy it is for students who want to specialize, esp since they've only begun to revamp their research dept. I do know their Pathology program is stellar and they offer DVM/MPH degree through U Minn...but their research is nothing compared to Penn's. So I think if you know you want to specialize and are interested in research then Penn may offer you better resources/contacts.

[/quote] a close friend of mine applying this cycle asked one of her Doctors for a LOR, and she said she would only write her one if she DID NOT apply to Western. (My friend didn't want to go there anyway, and wasn't planning on applying there) But that's just how strongly some people in the field feel about it.[/quote]

Ahh, still can't figure out how to quote from 2+ sources 🙁
Hey pyxystyx just curious, why was the vet so dissatisfied w/ Western's program?