blingblah

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RF has a pretty good match list... dont know much about penn state; sure people rip on RF for being on probation this year but that is temporary. Basically wherever you go, you have to do well. If you do average unless you are from some top 20 school, nothings gonna save ya. Goood luck. :thumbup:
 

NNguyenMD

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JustDocy said:
I have two friends from California, one goes to Rosalind Franklin one goes to Penn State, the one at Penn State is always looking for ways to get out of Hershey, the one at Franklin hardly ever comes back from from Chicago.

At least location wise, its possible you might be happier in Chicago. But that same friend of mine also says that they're going through a transition period with their curriculum, and whatever authoritative body that regulates medical education accreditation isn't happy about it.
 

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JustDocy said:
this is almost a trollish comparison

not that penn st is that great of a school... more like CMS is that bad of a school.

dude, they're having accreditation prob's not to mention their suck-ass reputation and location. the former is not something i'd fu-ck around with.

penn st all the way
 

skiz knot

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While Penn State is having a down year, pick them to cover against Rosalind Franklin every time. :laugh:
 
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JustDocy

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I am not trying to be trollish. I am from California, and have the opportunity to go to either school. I am torn because in terms of location, RF seems to be the place to be, doing clinical years in Chicago. However, I have heard way better things about Penn State's reputation. I do want to return to California after medical school, and I don't know if either would give me an advantage?

I am really looking for people's opinions, because I do not even know where to begin, because i have heard such bad things about RF, but also good things too. I am really concerned about rural life, but I am also concerned about possibly not receiving the best education by choosing RF.

ANy input?!
 

gogo_racer

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JustDocy said:
I am not trying to be trollish. I am from California, and have the opportunity to go to either school. I am torn because in terms of location, RF seems to be the place to be, doing clinical years in Chicago. However, I have heard way better things about Penn State's reputation. I do want to return to California after medical school, and I don't know if either would give me an advantage?

I am really looking for people's opinions, because I do not even know where to begin, because i have heard such bad things about RF, but also good things too. I am really concerned about rural life, but I am also concerned about possibly not receiving the best education by choosing RF.

ANy input?!
if you are concerned w/ going back to california, why don't you compare the last few match lists b/w the 2 schools? i don't know about state, but each cms class is usually about 60% californian, and many of those want to and do end up going back.

of course, the ease of getting back into cali also depends on what specialty you end up in (e.g., family med vs ortho) and how you perform (gpa, class rank, usmle, LORs, clinical evals).

as for education at RF, you dont need to worry. just like any school, there are some amazing lecturers and some crappy ones. you will get an outstanding education in pathology (RF profs wrote the Pathology BRS you'll grow to love). and you'll find out during med school pretty much no matter where you go, that for usmle you'll end up reading all the same board review books and do kaplan q-bank Q's that everyone else is doing.

as for the RF reputation, i believe some of it has basis, and some of it is unfounded. does it help during residency applications? probably not (unless the residency has taken many RF kids in the past, which many cali ones have). will it hurt you if you rank high in class, have great boards scores, and great LORs? no it wont.

i think the biggest detractor against RF is also its greatest strength: lack of a main hospital site. the lay person doesnt know much about RF b/c there is no hospital named RF. but that allows the student 1) to get to move to downtown chicago for clinical years, and 2) to have a plethora of hospitals to rotate at, from your Cook County, to knife/gun club at Mt. Sinai, to the VAs, to the pretty and rich community hospitals Lutheran, Masonic, and Christ. students at some other schools dont get the same opportunities.

in conclusion, go where you'd feel happiest (location, tuition, etc). if you perform in the middle of the pack, yeh a school w/ a better rep would help more during residency hunt. but as long as you work your ass off and do well, you control your own destiny no matter what school you go to. hope this helps.
 

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The education at RF is fine, and I wouldn't worry about reputation issues. It's only a factor with a minority of ranking snobs who clearly have issues that have to make you question the validity of their criticism. I was middle of the pack (at least in terms of grades) at RF and ended up matching very well, as did the rest of my class. I'm sure if you asked any of my patients if I went to good med school, I doubt they'd say something to the effect of it "sucking ass." The accreditation business was never a serious issue when I attended CMS but seems to have led to the major improvements in leadership, and development of facilities. I don't really know how the curriculum has changed, but what they were doing before worked well for me where Step 1 was concerned. I loved living in downtown Chicago for two years as well. Don't listen to a few idiots who poo poo the reputation of RF, it's a great school from which you can do whatever you are worthy of doing. In my year we had a couple match ortho and peds at Stanford, one guy matched integrated plastics at Brown, surgery at Mayo, ER at Brigham, Path at MGH, and plenty of great Cali matches for those who wanted them. Of course, there were lots of other great matches too. Our list may not look like that of a top 10 (or 20) school, but it won't hinder truly great doctors from ending up where they belong.

You can read about the accreditation issues here: http://66.99.255.20/CMS/accreditation/faq.cfm
 

PathOne

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Among the issues brought up by the LCME accreditation team was the high dependence on student tuition (=high costs for students) and the lack of access to comprehensive teaching hospitals. While I'm sure they're trying to deal with the issues, it would seem that schools without probationary accreditation status would be preferable...
 

Slippery Pete

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I'm sure if you asked any of my patients if I went to good med school, I doubt they'd say something to the effect of it "sucking ass."
cuz peeps outside the med profession r ignorant... u know wat i'm sayin homes :rolleyes:






























:thumbdown:
 

powermd

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PathOne said:
Among the issues brought up by the LCME accreditation team was the high dependence on student tuition (=high costs for students) and the lack of access to comprehensive teaching hospitals. While I'm sure they're trying to deal with the issues, it would seem that schools without probationary accreditation status would be preferable...
My point is not to let the probationary status scare you. There are plenty of other perfectly valid reasons to choose another school over RF. It all depends on personal priorities. Unless you're someone planning for a super-competitive fellowship, it's amazing how little anyone cares where you went to med school once you've matched.
 

PathOne

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True.... It's the rhetorical question: Who gets a competitive residency? A top RF grad, AOA, with research and stormin' Step scores, or a muddling also-ran at a Top10? And past residency, NOBODY cares where you went.... :)

Still, in choosing between RF and another school - all other things being equal - I would probably still be concerned about the probationary status.
 

powermd

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I doubt anyone who got into both a top ten school and RF would have trouble making a decision! I was middle of the pack in my class at RF with a very good step 1 score and matched Columbia for anesthesiology, and had interviews at every top program in the Northeast. The strong students at my school, regardless of stats, all matched well within their field of choice. There were only a few people who weren't realistic about specialty/location choices and didn't match a desired program. Our match list does not look like a top ten school (>85% matching a tippy-top academic program), but the strong candidates match well.
 

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I am a second year at Penn State and just wanted to put in my 2 cents. I agree with most of the other posts - you have to go where you will be most comfortable, with the accreditation issue adding a slight twist. Penn State is very rural! I personally do not think it is a detriment but instead an attribute and allows a different medical viewpoint than a big city school. However, if you have always been and will always be a city person, Hershey is not the place for you. On trauma surgery rotations, it is guaranteed that you will see at least one farming accident (and perhaps more farming accidents than GSWs). This is just something you can't get in the middle of Chicago! Rotations during third year are all in-state (we have a few choices of location for each rotation), but fourth year (from what I've heard) is open waters. Let me know if I can give any more information to help! Once again, I am 150% confident I made the right choice in coming here - I have never once doubted it. I just hope to give some information so that you can be as confident in your decision.
 

amnesic

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Slippery Pete said:
cuz peeps outside the med profession r ignorant... u know wat i'm sayin homes :rolleyes:






























:thumbdown:


And the residency selection committees at Stanford, Mayo, Johns Hopkins, UCLA, Brigham, Northwestern, etc. are ignorant as well, right "homes"? Try explaining to them how CMS "sucks ass" in your enlightened opinion, if they will even invite you for interview.


http://66.99.255.20/osa/Resources/2005MR.pdf


Maybe it's just YOU who is ignorant, hater.

:cool:
 

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Along with reputation, I'd consider the curricula at the schools too. I know RF has a numerical grading system, and I've heard some RF students complain about the extra stress it adds.

Also, as far as location goes, RF is nearly rural, at least it is in a pretty boring area about an hour north of Chicago. So if you're a city person you won't really dig that anyway (for the first two yrs.).

And to add in my 2c about rep... it is very true that you could succeed at either school, there is a neurosurgery res at my school from RF. Another way of looking at it is that you're going to work your tail off at either school if you want to be competitive. But lets face it, Penn State will help you in the rep dept.

IMO, Penn State would be a better choice unless you don't like their curriculum, or if you don't think you'll like Hershey.

Also, haven't we decided that comparing match lists is not very usefull?
 

Ursus Martimus

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DrBodacious said:
Along with reputation, I'd consider the curricula at the schools too. I know RF has a numerical grading system, and I've heard some RF students complain about the extra stress it adds.
So how do you think schools generate the oh so important class rank. Everyone is graded everywhere you go. If high pass, low pass, honors, whatever helps your ego then you can believe the myth.

DrBodacious said:
Also, as far as location goes, RF is nearly rural, at least it is in a pretty boring area about an hour north of Chicago. So if you're a city person you won't really dig that anyway (for the first two yrs.).
40 miles, (38 actually), but an hour in traffic. You know why there is traffic - because it is definately not rural. You better look up the meaning of rural and use it correctly.

DrBodacious said:
And to add in my 2c about rep... it is very true that you could succeed at either school, there is a neurosurgery res at my school from RF. Another way of looking at it is that you're going to work your tail off at either school if you want to be competitive.
Finally an accurate statement

DrBodacious said:
But lets face it, Penn State will help you in the rep dept.
I saw the match list of the two. If Penn grads ride on the reputations to help them get those spots, what would it be like if they didn't have such an "awesome" rep.

DrBodacious said:
Also, haven't we decided that comparing match lists is not very usefull?
I think it is a fair measure, especially once you bring in the reputation argument. I would see for yourself, I think it is quite clear who puts out more better prepared grads, but you are entitled to your opinions but here are the facts.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=2465617&postcount=109

versus

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=2410289&postcount=5

And the winner is?