ph.d > md?

[javandane]

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a colleague of mine told me today that a ph.d is a "higher" degree than an md. of course, this person couldn't substantiate the claim with anything other than "go ask any of the PIs".

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Remember, in life, you get what you pay for. Last I checked, Ph.D.'s were free.

 

[St. James]

i dunno, both are terminal degrees in their areas. however, in terms of getting grants, the PhD may be "worth more." certainly an MD/PhD is an advantage over a regular MD in terms of funding.

 

[BubbleBobble]

Remember, in life, you get what you pay for. Last I checked, Ph.D.'s were free.

With that logic, you'd better off getting your undergrad degree at Boston U over Harvard...

 

[Pinkertinkle]

I wouldn't judge an MD on its ability to obtain grants, that's not what the degree was designed for. Besides, I don't want to be a professional beggar, AKA PI, anyway.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

With that logic, you'd better off getting your undergrad degree at Boston U over Harvard...

Yes my comment is an absolute law and can be applied to any situation without fail.

 

[jbing]

a colleague of mine told me today that a ph.d is a "higher" degree than an md. of course, this person couldn't substantiate the claim with anything other than "go ask any of the PIs".

well ok, in a research setting there might be some truth to that, but go ask a dying person who he'd want to save his life. it's apples and oranges really.

 

[finnpipette]

At least at Stanford, an MD is worth much more than a PhD. My lab is in the process of recruiting new post-docs and research associates. One person we are hiring is working on his MD/PhD. He already has his MD, but Stanford requires that MD's get paid a minimum of 120K or something like that. So, we have to wait for him to complete his PhD so that we can pay him the research associate rate of ~36k for post docs and PhD's. My PI recommends that I get an MD.

 

[phillyfornia]

no way. getting accepted to a PhD program is a lot easier than getting into an MD program. i think that the PhDs say that just b/c they all wish that they were MDs. heck, they even refer to themselves as doctors.

 

[gujuDoc]

I agree with the person that said that that is like comparing apples with oranges.

An MD is a degree meant for a person who would like to treat patients or do pathology, or do all that plus clinical research and in some cases basic science research or public health research.


But mainly the good majority of MD's use the degree to treat patients.

PhD's on the other hand, are strictly researchers in a specified field.


If I was to do medicine and research, I would go the MD/PHD route, because you get more specialized towards research with a PHD than the basic knowledge of MD's while you get the MD to treat patients and do clinical practice.

However, some exceptional MD's do research with just an MD and find more than some PHD's find in their lifetime.

 

[principessa]

no way. getting accepted to a PhD program is a lot easier than getting into an MD program. i think that the PhDs say that just b/c they all wish that they were MDs. heck, they even refer to themselves as doctors.

Watch it with the generalizations. Are you saying it?s easier to get into Princeton?s Physics Ph.D. program than Drexel?s M.D. program? I hope not. And Ph.D.?s ARE doctors - of philosophy.

 

[Asclepius]

Yes my comment is an absolute law and can be applied to any situation without fail.

especially to your love life, eh?

 

[Medikit]

I don't really know how to compare them. The bottom line is that medical doctors aren't really professors and PhD's aren't really doctors.

In some sense you could compare the MD to a vocational degree versus a bachelors as the PhD.

 

[W222]

The PhD is generally a more difficult degree to get (when you take out med school admissions). It is tougher to get into medical school but the attrition rate is very low. Considering that everything you learn in medical school is already known material, the PhD is more difficult to attain because you really have to work and research a new area to attain your degree. Most good PhD programs require you to publish before you graduate, which means designing an original project and seeing it through. This can take years even if you are a really good student, meanwhile with getting an MD it is basically 4 years and out.

 

[Luck]

As far as I know PhDs are lower. In fact, the order goes DO>MD>PhD.😀

 

[fullefect1]

no way. getting accepted to a PhD program is a lot easier than getting into an MD program. i think that the PhDs say that just b/c they all wish that they were MDs. heck, they even refer to themselves as doctors.

I know several people who choose a Phd when they could have easily gotten into Medical school.

 

[Prozach]

As far as I know PhDs are lower. In fact, the order goes DO>MD>PhD.😀

Tru dat! 👍

 

[jake2]

In ye olde formalism of academia, the MD is considered a professional degree, equivalent to a bachelor's degree in other nations. (In most of the rest of the world, doctors' possess an MBBS, Bachelor of Medicine/Bachelor of Surgery, just as lawyers possess an LlB rather than a JD.) The PhD is a graduate degree and is therefore considered of a higher rank I believe. Note in Britain at least, an MD degree still exists than is attained through research. Thus a foreign MD is equal to a PhD but an American MD is not.

However, in other Britain surgeons are not given the title "doctor" at all and hamburgers eat people, so place as much worth on titles as you will.

 

[kingcer0x]

What about 'Dr.' Greg Cynamon PhD (sp) from the Cortislim ads...

There are good PhDs, and bad PhDs. There are more PhDs because there are more disciplines and more schools that offer them, even just in the sciences. There are good MD's and competent MD's, because MD's who lost their license who dont count.

So on average, I would say MD > PhD in terms of prestige... but the upper echelon of researchers are probably smarter and more well reknown than the best clinic only orthopedic surgeon in say a particular state.

 

[Brickhouse]

MD's get more 'tang....

 

[thewzdoc]

Check this out

 

[pratik7]

in terms of knowledge base...i would say phd is > than md.

 

[thewzdoc]

Isn?t the true power of an MD the specialty that you get into? Maybe an MD has less overall knowledge but a PHD cannot compare with an MD?s specialty.

 

[javandane]

MD's get more 'tang....

and let's face it, what other measure of success is there?

 

[theduke]

These titles hold weight in their own domains. I'd rather be someone who can actually practice medicine.

At the end of the day, we're all businessmen

 

[kingcer0x]

MD's get more 'tang....

Woohoo!

 

[VCMM414]

In ye olde formalism of academia, the MD is considered a professional degree, equivalent to a bachelor's degree in other nations. (In most of the rest of the world, doctors' possess an MBBS, Bachelor of Medicine/Bachelor of Surgery, just as lawyers possess an LlB rather than a JD.) The PhD is a graduate degree and is therefore considered of a higher rank I believe. Note in Britain at least, an MD degree still exists than is attained through research. Thus a foreign MD is equal to a PhD but an American MD is not.

However, in other Britain surgeons are not given the title "doctor" at all and hamburgers eat people, so place as much worth on titles as you will.

Yes, but in Britain (and most of the rest of the world), you would get the MBBS like you would any other bachelors degree. That is, you enter medical school straight from junior college.

The way it works in the US, the MD is a post-bachelors degree. Not so with MBBS.

 

[mosoriire]

But it's still the same material and skill-set you would be getting, whether you are in Britain or in the US

 

[WatchingWaiting]

in terms of knowledge base...i would say phd is > than md.

This is not accurate at all. A PhD has to have a very deep, comprehensive knowledge of one area; however, it is generally one very small area (like yeast transcription factors). The PhD also requires a lot of patience and at least some amount of creativity (especially to actually be successful). An MD doesn't have to contribute to human knowledge or make an indepedent research contribution, but does require a MUCH, MUCH broader and more thorough base of knowledge than a PhD. Once you go and specialize that broad base of knowledge can go downhill, especially if you're an orthopod, but your average, fresh-out-of-school MD unquestionably has a much broader and larger base of knowledge than your average fresh-out-of-school PhD.

 

[VCMM414]

But it's still the same material and skill-set you would be getting, whether you are in Britain or in the US

Yes, but in the UK you miss out on our undergraduate/liberal arts portion of the education. So, while your medical education is essentially similar, US med students tend to be older and more widely educated (in theory anyway heh). I think the US may be the only country that places emphysis in "broad education" and "soul-searching to make sure that medicine is really the career for you." So, again, in theory, US med students in general may be more sure of their career goals and direction in life than med students elsewhere in the world (who must make important career-choices during high school). Now in practice, this requires US pre-meds to fully utilize their time in college exploring their interests etc. and not just view college as stepping-stone to med school. As we all know it doesn't always happen this way.

 

[Alexander99]

a colleague of mine told me today that a ph.d is a "higher" degree than an md. of course, this person couldn't substantiate the claim with anything other than "go ask any of the PIs".

Higher on what scale? Does this mean PhD's can do everything an MD does but more? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Next time you see him or her, give them a swift punch in the face for me.

 

[kinetic]

What is the point of this thread? Are you making your career decision or something based on which is ">"? Each degree is fine for what it is intended for (which is why there are two different degrees. In summary, if you want to practice medicine, get an M.D. (or ...a ...D.O. ..........). If you want to pipette until you get carpal tunnel, get a PhD.


😀

 

[kinetic]

Higher on what scale? Does this mean PhD's can do everything an MD does but more? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Next time you see him or her, give them a swift punch in the face for me.

Hey, Alexander99, want a position in my administration? 😉

 

[Alexander99]

Hey, Alexander99, want a position in my administration? 😉

Sure. I'll take the positions of either "dictator" (an actual elected political position in ancient Rome) or "sub-emperor." I highly subscribe to Fidel Castro's methods of running a nation. 👍

 

[kinetic]

Sure. I'll take the positions of either "dictator" (an actual elected political position in ancient Rome) or "sub-emperor." I highly subscribe to Fidel Castro's methods of running a nation. 👍

Well, if you're going to subscribe to Castro's life teachings, I'll make you a dictator, but the only thing you get to order around is a gimp donkey, OK ? 😀

 

[adamj61]

Sure. I'll take the positions of either "dictator" (an actual elected political position in ancient Rome) or "sub-emperor." I highly subscribe to Fidel Castro's methods of running a nation. 👍

Hey, they have the best health care in the world. Looks like a go 👍

 

[kinetic]

Hey, they have the best health care in the world. Looks like a go 👍

Man, it's a little early to be stoned, isn't it?

 

[Alexander99]

Well, if you're going to subscribe to Castro's life teachings, I'll make you a dictator, but the only thing you get to order around is a gimp donkey, OK ? 😀

Sounds like my life right now anyway. Sign me up!

 

[kinetic]

Done and done. You can see your name in lights in my VP thread and/or my "cool or tool thread".

 

[adamj61]

Man, it's a little early to be stoned, isn't it?

Haha yeah...but I did read per capita they have the best system in the world. Maybe that was 5 or 10 years ago...but I believe it is up there.

 

[kinetic]

Haha yeah...but I did read per capita they have the best system in the world. Maybe that was 5 or 10 years ago...but I believe it is up there.

That's because:

a) their entire population is located somewhere in between Cuba and Miami and

b) they are incredibly fit from swimming.

 

[adamj61]

Dont forget they have that guy from Bond doing gene therapy

 

[mosoriire]

This is not accurate at all. A PhD has to have a very deep, comprehensive knowledge of one area; however, it is generally one very small area (like yeast transcription factors). The PhD also requires a lot of patience and at least some amount of creativity (especially to actually be successful). An MD doesn't have to contribute to human knowledge or make an indepedent research contribution, but does require a MUCH, MUCH broader and more thorough base of knowledge than a PhD. Once you go and specialize that broad base of knowledge can go downhill, especially if you're an orthopod, but your average, fresh-out-of-school MD unquestionably has a much broader and larger base of knowledge than your average fresh-out-of-school PhD.

I think the original argument was that a PhD is a superior degree when it comes to research? If that is the case, all the broad base of knowledge in the world cant really help a physician, if he or she doesnt understand the basic principles of research...I find that by and large, physicians are clueless when it comes to clinical research...Only a select group of physicians even paid attention to research beyond a superficial, pad-my-resume way...
That is the superiority of the PhD...
Of course, if a physician dedicates four years of straight, uninterrupted work to research, this argument becomes moot...But not until then

 

[dcpark74]

I would have to say that all degrees have their merit...i.e. PhD's and MD's. Let's face it! Without PhD's, what would we learn in med school. Also, what medicines would we prescribe to our patients.

It's pointless to have an ego contest when our ultimate goal is to work synergistically with our highly educated peers.

The only problem I have (I must admit 😳 ) is that some DO students say they are in medical school when in fact they attend osteopathic school. The reason for my annoyance is that they make a big deal on their holistic approach to medicine, yet they always have something to prove (e.g. 'we study the same things you (us med students) study) because they did not get into medical school. 😕 (If you are proud and content with what you are doing, why always justify your program to others and say it is just as good as or very similar to med schools.) My two cents...

 

[jake2]

Yes, but in Britain (and most of the rest of the world), you would get the MBBS like you would any other bachelors degree. That is, you enter medical school straight from junior college.

The way it works in the US, the MD is a post-bachelors degree. Not so with MBBS.

I'm still pretty sure a US MD counts as a second bachelor's degree according to the old world tradition. Of course, in the US we have our own traditions that include having the sense not to take this too seriously (for the most part and) much as the rest of the people in the world don't really give a damn.

 

[Fermata]

MD's get more 'tang....

I wonder what the correlation could be? 😀

CHA-CHING.

 

[Fermata]

PhD's and MD's often serve different purposes.

PhD's are trained in the scientific method.
MD's are trained to care for patients.

The average MD program IS harder to get into than the average PhD program.
However, the attrition rate for PhD programs is much higher.

Also, MD's have an almost guaranteed future. You can finish dead last in your class and be clueless but STILL make over 120k a year.

 

[javandane]

so, for those touting the "md is a second bachelors degree" stance, do you believe all graduate degrees hold greater merit than bachelors degrees? if so, does an MS supercede an MD? genuine question without the intention of any sarcasm.

 

[Fermata]

That's because:

a) their entire population is located somewhere in between Cuba and Miami and

b) they are incredibly fit from swimming.

Am I the only one who likes this politically incorrect humor?

 

[Fermata]

so, for those touting the "md is a second bachelors degree" stance, do you believe all graduate degrees hold greater merit than bachelors degrees? if so, does an MS supercede an MD? genuine question without the intention of any sarcasm.

It's not a second bachelor's degree.
A bachelor's degree tends to be less focused and more general than a professional degree.

MD's and PhD's are VERY specific in what they teach you.
MD's focus on human medicine.

And the gamut one can run in PhD's is insane. You can specialize in everything from honeybees to recession economics.