Pharm job outlook?

Started by contemplating2005
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Get help with your application

Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.

Browse articles Compare schools My application plan Read Interview Feedback
Practice for interviews Ask an Advisor
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Gombrich12 said:
Meanwhile in medicine...
fig3.png
Click to expand...
Medicine has its own problems as well...a lot of mid level encroaching and lowered reimbursements as well. This has pushed a lot of new grads into specializing, so there's saturation in many specialties (rad onc, rads, path, eg). I'm thinking it will be the same in a few years and declining salaries. I'd probably only do medicine if you cannot see yourself doing anything else.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
PharmDBro2017 said:
It’s pretty terrible imo.

Retail chains aren’t even hiring in my area, you know it’s god awful when you hear that.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Click to expand...
This is only the start of the great Pharmacy depression which I predict will least at least 15 years. I think wages will soon reflect the massively over supply and static demand in pharmacy which means being okay with being paid 30-35 USD an hour.

This predictions includes every current pharmacist having to reapply for their current job at a much lower rate.
 
gwarm01 said:
If the job market was booming then why would pre-pharmers be trying to cut out the competition?

Retail jobs are getting tighter year after year. A few years back Publix started people at 30 hours/week, now I'm hearing Kroger and other grocery stores are doing the same. Hospital pharmacy feels shielded from this belt tightening for now, probably because there is a minimum expectation of service that our internal customers will accept before they raise hell. If nursing or a powerful doc want something, it tends to happen. Of course, you have to deal with the ever increasing credentialing requirements for even an entry-level position. Hard to say what will happen with pay in the long term.
Click to expand...
pay will go down or work productivity will go up.

it's simple math. Supply vs demand. It's how I made a lot of money shorting oil ETFs when fracking started. Over supply and static demand only means one thing guys. There is a FINITE amount of money to pay pharmacists....
 
Lnsean said:
I got people working in my district that graduated 1-2 years ago still only getting 2-3 days/week of work...not by choice either.
Click to expand...
I know of more than one grad that has been working at Walmart (not as a pharmD) also another one working pizza delivery. I don't honestly see anything wrong with this as long as they are happy. Pharmacy school is just for the education not a job. If you go into pharmacy school expecting to work as a pharmacist you may be disappointing when you are unable to find any work.
 
johnpharm01 said:
I am a 2001 graduate, residency trained lots of experience. The overall market has changed dramatically with 2008-2009 as a landmark. Prior to 2008 to 2009, as long as your license was active you could be working in days at Walgreens, CVS with a starting bonus, OT, etc. You could have two jobs I did. During my residency in 2001, I floated for CVS. The scheduler would call me and offer me work. I negotiated pay i.e. working 10 hours being paid 12 etc, got paid drive time. 2008-2009 the market tightened. Now it continues to tighten, so much Walgreens, CVS have their pick and have continued to make working conditions worse. This is just retail.

Pharmacy careers can be more than retail, but most jobs are in retail and hospital. My opinion is that retail positions will start being converted to tech positions. The market for director of pharmacies, true clinicians, managed care is totally different. Anyone entering pharmacy looking for a meaningful career will have to invest a lot into it and have a narrow path for success. I have spoken recently to recruiters and one was telling me there is a push for pharmacists to do 4 years of residency like physicians. This is absurd.
Click to expand...

I have heard of having tech check techs instead of pharmacist checking techs.
 
DrVader said:
Why paid full price when you can get pennies on the dollar. The sad fact is that pharmacy schools are still cranking out graduates like no tomorrow. There job is to sell the degree, they don't care about the job market. The whole college bubble is going to burst when two things happen. If when the government stops guaranteeing students loans and when schools are had account to their graduates success.
Click to expand...
grad success is a subjective term and can always be fudged. It will only stop when the Fed cuts off pharmacy schools from the gravy train of fast and easy money.
 
DrVader said:
If someone gets drunk and crashes a car, people will sue the liquor manufacture. If someone goes on a mass shooting, people sue the manufacturer. But I spend 6 years and 200k and can't find a job, why can't I sue the school? Why can't I demand a refund? Generally, most businesses that sell a product or a service promise some sort of guarantee or refund. Why should universities be held toa different standard?
Click to expand...
They are delivering the product. The product is education. Getting a job has nothing to do with getting education. Getting a high paying pharmacy job is a LUXURY. Getting education is all that a school guarantees.
 
Modest_anteater said:
They are delivering the product. The product is education. Getting a job has nothing to do with getting education. Getting a high paying pharmacy job is a LUXURY. Getting education is all that a school guarantees.
Click to expand...

My alma mater advertises their residency match rate and naplex pass rate on the first page of their website. They also hold a job fair, etc etc. Who goes to pharmacy school just for their own enlightenment? And finally the chain of events education--->license--->job are tightly linked together. The schools of pharmacy should be more honest about the market, but they won't be because it would be cutting their own throats. I think of it this way, the education does not guarantee a job no matter what the schools say. I find it funny that, when I was in school, the school looked down at retail. This is where a majority of pharmacists work. Now, with the gradual demise of retail, the pharmacy market has changed dramatically. In turn, the schools are having a hard time filling their slots.
 
endor55 said:
Hey Stoichiometrist, I've read quite a bit of the things you've posted in recent years (way before I even signed up for an SDN profile) and I'm genuinely curious about a few things, if you'd be so kind. I know a lot of people badger you for your perceived negativity/pessimism whereas you, in my estimation, appear to just be a brutally honest realist and, based on your personal experiences, "Calls it like [you] sees it". I say all that to say that I ask, in earnest, for reasons that I hope are fairly obvious (give the topic of this thread).

1. What pharmacy school did you earn your Pharm.D from?

2. What is the farthest you've ever looked at and/or been willing to relocate to get a better job? Have you ever applied/interviewed out of the city, and even moreso, the state where you live?

Sent from my SM-G928T using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

@stoichiometrist I’m also genuinely curious about this. Endor55 worded it well. These are nonaccusatory questions.
 
DrVader said:
If someone gets drunk and crashes a car, people will sue the liquor manufacture. If someone goes on a mass shooting, people sue the manufacturer. But I spend 6 years and 200k and can't find a job, why can't I sue the school? Why can't I demand a refund? Generally, most businesses that sell a product or a service promise some sort of guarantee or refund. Why should universities be held toa different standard?
Click to expand...

You could try like many law students have

Law Graduate Who Sued Her School Loses at Trial

But schools don't sell jobs. They sell you a piece of paper.
 
ericn2k3 said:
If the market is so competitive, why is it that retail company not able to hire better pharmacist? They should have their pick right? Some of these new hires are terrible. Major markets too (Philadelphia).
Click to expand...
You don't really know how terrible they are until they start working then it's too late. Now you have to do all the coaching before give them the pink slip.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Farm Fresh Supermarket (38 stores) in my areas just sold 18 stores to Kroger/Harris Teeter and 3 stores to Food Lion, leaving 17 stores without future. All their Rx files will be transfer to Rite Aid or CVS. So at least 34 pharmacist are scrambling to look for job right now along with new grads coming out soon.
 
PharmtoCS said:
As a doctor you graduate with even more debt, spend more time in education (including residency), and carry more liability.

These are reasons why I recommend computer science or engineering over the healthcare fields. You get pharmacist pay and great job security without the loans, schooling, and liability.
Click to expand...
But you will be the ****ing man
 
johnpharm01 said:
My alma mater advertises their residency match rate and naplex pass rate on the first page of their website. They also hold a job fair, etc etc. Who goes to pharmacy school just for their own enlightenment? And finally the chain of events education--->license--->job are tightly linked together. The schools of pharmacy should be more honest about the market, but they won't be because it would be cutting their own throats. I think of it this way, the education does not guarantee a job no matter what the schools say. I find it funny that, when I was in school, the school looked down at retail. This is where a majority of pharmacists work. Now, with the gradual demise of retail, the pharmacy market has changed dramatically. In turn, the schools are having a hard time filling their slots.
Click to expand...
My pharmacy school's enrollment is the lowest it has been since 2008.
 
DrVader said:
That is true, but most of that piece of paper is funded through federal loans which the taxpayer are liable for. So if the students can't pay it back the public is screwed.
Click to expand...
No one can file bankrupt for federal student loan. Student has to pay it back unless they die or become disable....no? It may take longer time to pay, but as long as you are able to work and make money, you got to pay student loan.
 
I know alot of people here are probably worse off than me, but just want some insight, I have over 30 yrs experience, moved to S Florida to help out my mother. I had lots of inpatient experience. but not the last 10 yrs which I did anti coagulation clinic. All I want is a per diem job in a hospital, even 1 day a week, I've had 4 interviews, thought I was going to get the job on 2 of them. I left a long time job, but my supervisor and I didn't particularly like each other, my evaluation when I left was fully satisfactory. I'm just wondering at what point and if they call your previous employer, and if it had anything to do with it, and don't know what they're policy is for hat they disclose. I've mainly applied with HCA and Tenet health care, and others, but alot never even got a call.
 
gpb59 said:
I know alot of people here are probably worse off than me, but just want some insight, I have over 30 yrs experience, moved to S Florida to help out my mother. I had lots of inpatient experience. but not the last 10 yrs which I did anti coagulation clinic. All I want is a per diem job in a hospital, even 1 day a week, I've had 4 interviews, thought I was going to get the job on 2 of them. I left a long time job, but my supervisor and I didn't particularly like each other, my evaluation when I left was fully satisfactory. I'm just wondering at what point and if they call your previous employer, and if it had anything to do with it, and don't know what they're policy is for hat they disclose. I've mainly applied with HCA and Tenet health care, and others, but alot never even got a call.
Click to expand...
Where in S. Florida?
 
DrVader said:
My pharmacy school's enrollment is the lowest it has been since 2008.
Click to expand...

Maybe the tide will turn. A decade of bad employment opportunities for RPhs. If enrollment drops and somehow, someway demand increases perhaps at least RPhs will more easily find work.
 
johnpharm01 said:
Maybe the tide will turn. A decade of bad employment opportunities for RPhs. If enrollment drops and somehow, someway demand increases perhaps at least RPhs will more easily find work.
Click to expand...

I'm sure the market will eventually improve but if I were a pre-pharm I wouldn't hold my breath. The market can stay irrational for longer than you can stay solvent.
 
gpb59 said:
palm beach county
Click to expand...
Tough market. How far south are you? Memorial Healthcare in Broward has 6 hospitals and usually has several positions open. Broward Health has several hospitals as well. PBC just doesn't have as many options unfortunately.
 
gwarm01 said:
Tough market. How far south are you? Memorial Healthcare in Broward has 6 hospitals and usually has several positions open. Broward Health has several hospitals as well. PBC just doesn't have as many options unfortunately.
Click to expand...

I interviewed with one of those at Memorial but didn't get selected and have continued to apply to their openings and contacted the hiring manager at the same facility. I actually have applied as far south as Coral Gables and North to Ft Pierce with considering moving if I got something. Broward has never contacted me, only emails rejections.
 


I've always seen grocery stores as the weak hands in this game. I suspect in aggregate they employ more pharmacists than Wags & CVS. This is going to be brutal as grocers see cutting RPH hours as way to protect cash flow.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
gpb59 said:
I interviewed with one of those at Memorial but didn't get selected and have continued to apply to their openings and contacted the hiring manager at the same facility. I actually have applied as far south as Coral Gables and North to Ft Pierce with considering moving if I got something. Broward has never contacted me, only emails rejections.
Click to expand...

there are places in PBC that you really want to avoid......do your research.....

good luck
 
PharmtoCS said:
I'm sure the market will eventually improve but if I were a pre-pharm I wouldn't hold my breath. The market can stay irrational for longer than you can stay solvent.
Click to expand...
Well Stoichiometrist...I hate to be presumptuous, but you've offered no real alternative. Given that you've more than likely seen my questions and have posted twice about other things since, I (and everyone else) can only let our imaginations logically fill in the blanks. To wit: a reasonable person would, given my questions and your apparent avoidance of them, expect that you attended a school that is a cog in the wheel of the Pharm.D "mill" that is pumping out the surplus of substandard pharmacists (at "$200k+" in loans, of course) that you routinely rail against in your predictable and tired tirades, and/or you have been unwilling to relocate any serious distance in order to secure better employment and, in short, possess no gumption.

Or, based on your previous comments, a third option...you went into pharmacy because of familial pressure? Or, you were attracted to a healthcare field with good pay where you thought you wouldn't have to grind, *work hard*, or move in order to procure a good job or advance? Or you weren't competitive enough (or fell short on the MCAT) for medical school so you begrudgingly went the pharmacy route instead and have lived in a state of self-loathing frustration since?

Which is it?

Sent from my SM-G928T using SDN mobile
 
endor55 said:
Well Stoichiometrist...I hate to be presumptuous, but you've offered no real alternative. Given that you've more than likely seen my questions and have posted twice about other things since, I (and everyone else) can only let our imaginations logically fill in the blanks. To wit: a reasonable person would, given my questions and your apparent avoidance of them, expect that you attended a school that is a cog in the wheel of the Pharm.D "mill" that is pumping out the surplus of substandard pharmacists (at "$200k+" in loans, of course) that you routinely rail against in your predictable and tired tirades, and/or you have been unwilling to relocate any serious distance in order to secure better employment and, in short, possess no gumption.

Or, based on your previous comments, a third option...you went into pharmacy because of familial pressure? Or, you were attracted to a healthcare field with good pay where you thought you wouldn't have to grind, *work hard*, or move in order to procure a good job or advance? Or you weren't competitive enough (or fell short on the MCAT) for medical school so you begrudgingly went the pharmacy route instead and have lived in a state of self-loathing frustration since?

Which is it?

Sent from my SM-G928T using SDN mobile
Click to expand...
One of the big problems with a PharmD is that it doesn't transfer to other fields. Because the average person doesn't know what a pharmacist does or even worst they think that a pharmacist just counts pills a pharmD isn't that impressive. People will think that you are smart if you just have an MD, even if you are working in a completely different field. At least lawyers (another saturated field) can move into stuff like politics or think tanks, they can find work with their degree outside of their field. I fear that students will find that if you can't work in retail or hospital, you can do much with your degree.
 
DrVader said:
One of the big problems with a PharmD is that it doesn't transfer to other fields.
Click to expand...

This, plus so many employers want a bachelors, for even the most menial jobs. BS Pharm have an advantage here over PharmD's, because people understand a bachelor's degree, and jobs are often willing to hire a person with a bachelor's degree in an field. But they see a PharmD, are like "what is that", and figure if the person doesn't have a bachelor's, they must be uneducated.
 
BidingMyTime said:
This, plus so many employers want a bachelors, for even the most menial jobs. BS Pharm have an advantage here over PharmD's, because people understand a bachelor's degree, and jobs are often willing to hire a person with a bachelor's degree in an field. But they see a PharmD, are like "what is that", and figure if the person doesn't have a bachelor's, they must be uneducated.
Click to expand...

To be fair, I think most people would understand that a PharmD (or any doctorate) is higher in rank than bachelors, even if they don't get the actual responsibilities of the job. If worried, just replace PharmD with Doctor of Pharmacy.
 
DrVader said:
One of the big problems with a PharmD is that it doesn't transfer to other fields. Because the average person doesn't know what a pharmacist does or even worst they think that a pharmacist just counts pills a pharmD isn't that impressive. People will think that you are smart if you just have an MD, even if you are working in a completely different field. At least lawyers (another saturated field) can move into stuff like politics or think tanks, they can find work with their degree outside of their field. I fear that students will find that if you can't work in retail or hospital, you can do much with your degree.
Click to expand...
In my own experience professionals outside of the healthcare sector generally don't know what a PharmD is and think it's a PhD... or something. Just don't tell them you're a pharmacist and you're good. :whistle:

But really though, from what I've seen, PharmDs generally have the same types of opportunities MDs do with a few exceptions.
 
Dr. Galazkiewicz said:


I've always seen grocery stores as the weak hands in this game. I suspect in aggregate they employ more pharmacists than Wags & CVS. This is going to be brutal as grocers see cutting RPH hours as way to protect cash flow.
Click to expand...

This is only the very beginning of hyper saturation. Look for it to get a lot worse. My prediction? 15-25 % unemployment rate by 2025 with wages around 65,000 USD a year in cities. I would do this job for free so I'm happy as long as it's above around 10,000 USD so I can buy food and pay rent.
 
Modest_anteater said:
This is only the very beginning of hyper saturation. Look for it to get a lot worse. My prediction? 15-25 % unemployment rate by 2025 with wages around 65,000 USD a year in cities. I would do this job for free so I'm happy as long as it's above around 10,000 USD so I can buy food and pay rent.
Click to expand...

I think we've already been there for awhile. What's distorting the numbers are all the older pharmacists that were PIPed out and gave up looking for a pharmacy gig and the proliferation of the residency. In PK terms this was a compartment that was there two decades ago. This absorbed a lot of labor, but what's going to happen to all the P3s and P4s now? how long can this game go on? Do they get FT grown up pay now or shown the door in favor of the PGYs below them. It such a frickin travesty the state of things now.
 
Dr. Galazkiewicz said:
In PK terms this was a compartment that was there two decades ago
Click to expand...
lol

Well someone said they might be starting PGY-4 so that could help absorb some of the additional grads. The best way would be to create new pharmacy school. Say there is an excess of 4,000 pharmacists. If they opened up 40 new schools that could absorb all those pharmacists and they would all be getting paid with borrowed fed loan money which in turn was borrowed from the Chinese / Japanese.

Realistically if pharmacy can break into PA/MD/DO/NP's field and start prescribing more we could eat more of their lunch and get more jobs. Pharmacists can prescribe a few things in California. Hopefully this eventually gets expanded.
 
endor55 said:
Well Stoichiometrist...I hate to be presumptuous, but you've offered no real alternative. Given that you've more than likely seen my questions and have posted twice about other things since, I (and everyone else) can only let our imaginations logically fill in the blanks. To wit: a reasonable person would, given my questions and your apparent avoidance of them, expect that you attended a school that is a cog in the wheel of the Pharm.D "mill" that is pumping out the surplus of substandard pharmacists (at "$200k+" in loans, of course) that you routinely rail against in your predictable and tired tirades, and/or you have been unwilling to relocate any serious distance in order to secure better employment and, in short, possess no gumption.

Or, based on your previous comments, a third option...you went into pharmacy because of familial pressure? Or, you were attracted to a healthcare field with good pay where you thought you wouldn't have to grind, *work hard*, or move in order to procure a good job or advance? Or you weren't competitive enough (or fell short on the MCAT) for medical school so you begrudgingly went the pharmacy route instead and have lived in a state of self-loathing frustration since?

Which is it?

Sent from my SM-G928T using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

What matters is not my background but rather what the average pharmacist has to face. One can only speculate my circumstances but trying to discredit me is not going to change the reality which this profession is headed. Saturation affects all pharmacists, not just those who are terrible and/or are unwilling to relocate.
 
a student said:
In other words, the job outlook is GOOD for worthy outstanding graduates?
Click to expand...

Any field is lucrative for people with emotional intelligence/street smarts. You can even say the people leading both small and large companies have way more street smarts than book smarts.

Yes, the job market is ****ty in pharmacy, especially in California. That doesn't mean it's impossible to find a job. Alternatively, it isn't going to be easy to find a full time job as a pharmacist that doesn't require relocating or copious amounts of traveling...

Good luck.
 
PharmtoCS said:
What matters is not my background but rather what the average pharmacist has to face. One can only speculate my circumstances but trying to discredit me is not going to change the reality which this profession is headed. Saturation affects all pharmacists, not just those who are terrible and/or are unwilling to relocate.
Click to expand...

Ok, but what exactly do you know about what the average pharmacist faces, other than the facts that you've parroted from reddit threads and other threads on sdn? You claim to know the plight of the pharmacist, but you haven't exactly established an ethos here. What makes your opinion so different from anyone else's that you're hellbent on posting the same posts every time? I really mean no offense, I am genuinely curious.
 
Too many new schools opening up but not enough new jobs being created. Hence, market is saturated. Its not about qualification at this point. There simply isnt enough spots to fill for those who are getting out of school.

From what i learned in school, the job market will swing back and forth eventually come to a neutrality. Early 2000s were the golden times for pharmacists and now we are heading towards the other extreme.

But I also think there is some merit in effort to eliminate the competition as well. Scare people off before they even start haha. Heck, ive been telling every tech ive worked with not to go to pharmacy school lol
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
A few trends to consider:
1. Retail margins keep getting cut and even the 3rd largest pharmacy chain, Rite-Aid, can't make a profit. Rite-Aid has already shuttered stores and is in the process of trying to merge with a grocery chain. When I graduated in 2013, Rite-Aid was one of the biggest pharmacy employers in the country-- their recruiter said they were hiring over 2,000 pharmacists annually.
2. The other 2 pharmacy chains, CVS & Walgreens, have seen their stocks struggle in the last year. Amazon's move into the healthcare space is forcing both CVS & Walgreens to take additional risks to fend off competition. CVS is in the process of trying to buy Aetna for 69 billion. Walgreens has made a big strategic partnership with Prime Therapeutics, and has been expanding their geographical foothold by buying some of the Rite-Aid stores. Meanwhile, all of this alignment with health insurers and PBMs has put major pressure on other pharmacy chains and independents.
3. Independents have been going out of business in record numbers in the past year. Many other grocery chains are struggling. Note that Target pharmacies had to abandon the pharmacy business a couple years ago because they couldn't turn a profit. The Walgreens partnership with Prime Therapeutics has really hurt many of the smaller grocery players and other pharmacy chains because they no longer have access to the Blue Cross Blue Shield health plans.
4. Hospital pharmacies are the place to work right now. There will always be a need for inpatient staffing pharmacists and some clinical specialists. However, all of these jobs are getting harder to get. Many pharmacy students are opting to do 1-2 years of residency and this has created more competition. It always comes down to money, and one problem with clinical pharmacists is that they have to justify their cost. Unfortunately pharmacists have very limited ability to bill for services. Many health systems are looking at PAs and NPs to run clinical programs (especially ambulatory), because they can bill for their services. The greatly increasing numbers of PAs and NPs is going to put a potential crimp on expanded ambulatory clinical pharmacist plans. Pharmacy organizations are touting their horns about potential future jobs that may never exist.
5. Improved software, algorithms, automation, and artificial intelligence will also limit future growth of clinical pharmacists. Some physicians are worried that AI will limit physician jobs, but pharmacists will be at more immediate risk. Procedures that physicians do are more difficult to mimic. AI will be very good at finding information, which obviously overlaps with what clinical pharmacists do. Much of the work that clinical pharmacists do can be automated (med rec, profile reviews, checking for duplicates, protocol compliance, dose checking, etc). Now that almost all hospitals have moved to electronic records it will become much easier to study the use of AI and automation in pharmacy. Research has already commenced in this area and will only accelerate as big tech money like Amazon and IBM begins to move into the healthcare space.
 
Last edited:
MatCauthon said:
4. Hospital pharmacies are the place to work right now. There will always be a need for inpatient staffing pharmacists and some clinical specialists.
Click to expand...

This has been my reasoning for some time now. Hospitals have a certain minimal acceptable level of pharmacy staffing due to the critical nature of the work done.
 
gwarm01 said:
This has been my reasoning for some time now. Hospitals have a certain minimal acceptable level of pharmacy staffing due to the critical nature of the work done.
Click to expand...

Well not entirely true. Hospitals in my area are also cutting hours. Although it does seem like there is more stablity there compared to retail.

The biggest issue is new pharmacy schools opening everywhere. This needs to stop. But then again im sure there is lots of funding from big corporations to flood the market in order to decrease the minimal salary for new grads so would be interesting to see how amazon’s input plays a part in all this.
 
FakePharmacist said:
Well not entirely true. Hospitals in my area are also cutting hours. Although it does seem like there is more stablity there compared to retail.
Click to expand...

I'm sure there is plenty of fat to cut in a lot of hospitals. I'd probably start with the less productive members of staff, usually the people with the longest list of credentials in their e-mail signature.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
PRN Hospital Job Claims No Flexibility on Wage Rate
Replies
3
Views
2K
PharmDBro2017
PharmDBro2017
B
FDA jobs for pharmacists
Replies
2
Views
2K
baronzb
B
B
Job Advice: Be Brutally Honest
Replies
1
Views
904
IjangM
I
Mr.Smile12
DSN: job market adjustments
Replies
2
Views
1K
Pharmacist4321
P
ZakMeister
Remote per diem job
Replies
0
Views
2K
ZakMeister
ZakMeister