pharm vs. med.. I NEED SOME ADVICE!

[desi bum]

some background info:
i got into this 2 + 4 program in newark for the school of pharmacy at rutgers. i have to take the pre-pharmacy courses there for 2 yrs, maintain a 2.3 gpa, and im pretty much guaranteed admission into the school of pharm. im not even required to take the pcats.

as for med, i always felt like it was my calling. i didn't apply to any 7 or 8 yr med programs but i can go to the main campus in new brunswick, take the pre med courses, mcats, and apply to med schools the normal way.

now here's where im confused..i dont know where to go!
im def pre med but in case i dont get into a med school i guess i have pharm to fall back to. i just cant seem to let go of the pharmacy program 'cause im guaranteed admission.

if i drop the pharm d. program completely and start at new brunswick with the pre med courses, i can get lucky and hopefully get accepted to a med school. but if i don't do well academically then i can be screwed both ways. forget med school, i wont even be eligible for the competitive transfer for the pharmacy school.

should i complete the 6 yr pharm d. then apply to med schools? i dont know if having a pharm d. will help me during med..but in the long run, that's 10+ years of school!! way too many yrs for me to handle..

at this point, any kind of advice will be greatly appreciated. i have to make my decision before may 1 about where im going.

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[Shooto2000]

It isn't good to settle because in the long run you just might regret not following your dreams. No one can make that decision but you. Althought the pharmacy school guaranteed acceptance is very tempting. If becoming a doctor is a dream of yours go pursue it.

 

[Triangulation]

I agree with Shooto. If you want to be a physician then you have to go for it, please, please don't go into pharmacy school because it's your safety plan. Pharmacy is very different than being a physician. The demands and options are different, too different to substitute one for the other because you're worried about gaining acceptance to med school. Check out other forums, you can do everything that an MD can do as a DO, and they're generally easier to get into.

 

[LSUMED2006]

Why do you have to choose? As someone who has a great deal of experience with both, maybe I can help. Why not stay in the pre pharm/pharm program. I strongly feel that there is no better pre med training than pharmacy; in fact, I (and a pharmacy faculty member at my old pharmacy school) really wish that there was a 4 year pharmaceutical science degree for students in situations similar to yours. The prepharm prerecs and your first year or 2 in pharmacy school will cover everything that medschools require for admission (in fact many pharmacy schools actually have MUCH more stringent pre-recs than do medical schools...there have been a couple of threads here about people taking the wrong damn speech class and not being able to get into pharmacy school until the correct one is taken...medical schools are not nearly so specific in that regards).

Anyway, I degress. Stay in the pharmacy program; get into pharmacy school. After a year or 2 in pharmacy school (your 3rd or 4th year in college) you will either decide that pharmacy school is the path for you or that medicine is truly your calling. If you truly still want to be a physician, go to medical school from here. If not, then you will be in pharmacy school, on your way to an incredibly satisfying career. It is far to early for you to be burning bridges; you have an incredible opportunity ahead of you. Don't pass up the pharmacy offer now; honestly, it is too early for you to TRULY know what you want to do. It will be clearer later, and if you want to do medicine, then there is nothing keeping you from leaving pharmacy school if you choose.

Hope this helps,
Jason

 

[LSUMED2006]

I don't think there is anything wrong with fallbacks. In fact, I think it is foolish not to have a backup plan. Saddly, not everyone who wants to be a doctor, pharmacist, engineer, etc. get to do so. All of these people can find perfectly satisfying careers in other fields. Pharmacy is a wonderful backup. It is a WONDERFUL field to go into. In fact, for the effort, it has a VERY high right out of school income guarantees. I can't think of many fields that guarantee after 6 years of post high school work 80-100k+ compensation. While some can't handle the job no matter what the money, many others would glady be a pharmacist working for 100k, even if they hated the job. If you have to pick a great paying job that pays so well directly out of college, pharmacy is a great choice.

I think that some people have a problem with you viewing pharmacy as a "back up" due to the fact that so many who REALLY want to go to pharmacy school can't. The bottom line is this: do what makes YOU happy. If for some chance that you don't get into medical school, then you have an AWESOME backup. In fact, while in pharmacy school you may decide that it is for you. While in pharmacy school you find you don't like it, and there is nothing keeping you from leaving to go to medical school. Don't let the negative comments discourage you; you are very wise for having a backup, and there is NOTHING wrong with having one.

You are making some very smart plans for your life.
If I can help you with any other questions, please feel free to ask,
Jason

 

[Brill]

I'd add to this, but LSUMED has pretty much already stated how I feel about it. Considering how competitive it is to get into medical school (and any professional school for that matter) NOT having a backup plan isn't a very good idea. I know people always say "follow your dreams" but, not without lack of trying, not everyone is able to attain their dreams. If one could do anything he/she wanted then obviously it would be wise to choose the preferred career, but the reality of the matter is that not everyone can do what they want. I don't think having a backup plan necessarily means that the person doesn't want to do the secondary career, just that they'd prefer to pursue the primary career and in the case that it doesn't work out they still have something to do. It's just a good idea to plan ahead.

I know several people that went into dentistry, pharmacy, optometry, etc., as a backup to medical school and they are perfectly happy with their lives.

 

[desi bum]

Hey guys, thanks a lot for your replies and the great advices. You guys are chock full of wisdom! I appreciate everyone's thought about this; even if you have a problem with me viewing pharmacy as a "back up".. I needed to hear two different sides of opinions.

It really helps when you get some advice from someone who has experienced both (LSUMED). You made it pretty clear about what I should do, and it makes perfect sense to me. The pharmacy prereqs are exactly the same as any pre med would take. (Two semesters of Bio, Chem, Orgo. The pre pharm even requires me to take first sem Physics; so i think i'll take the second sem Phys anyway for med) If you want, you can even check out my schedule for the whole program at http://pharmacy.rutgers.edu/curricula/2+4_Program_Newark.pdf

I agree with Jason about the whole "no better pre med training than pharmacy". I also wish there was some kind of a 4 year degree with pharm related, but what can ya do.. anyways, courses from pharm school like Pharmacology I and II can definately help in med school. (im guessing..)

I just have one question though. (I am never gonna run out of questions.. ) Can I really drop out of Pharmacy shcool? I mean, of course it is possible to drop out..(not that hard) but wont the med schools look down at that? I'll be labeled as a pharmacy school drop out..with no degree. I thought some kind of major in undergrad was required along with the pre med courses to get into a med school. Am I required to major in something else or are the first 2 years of pre med courses + 2 years of pharmacy school enough? Isn't it a bit risky by not having some sort of degree when going to med school? Is dropping out of Pharmacy school in between (after my 1st or 2nd pharm yr) the best idea?? I know I am jumping way ahead in my future but I guess I just like to plan things out and make them work for me ... my way!

I definately can't let go of this guaranteed admission pharmacy offer. 'Cuz I know with my luck, I won't get a chance like this again. I am of those guys who always dream big, but get screwed in the end for letting go too many opportunities at hand. And this was one (major) decision I had to make.. and you guys made it easier for me.

Thanks a lot
- Jig

 

[LSUMED2006]

I PMed you a reply, but here is a short version. You do not have to have a degree to attend medical school; generally, medical schools only require 3 years of college work. That being said, it is much easier to get in having a degree. Also, if you do decide to to go to med school, you would want to make it abundantly clear to the med school admissions committee that you attended pharmacy school because you felt that it would best prepare you for medical school. When you interview for medical school, you must stress that there is (was) no indecision or change of heart; in other words, you should stress medicine was your goal and that pharmacy was the best way to prepare for it. (Oh, don't mention potentially dropping out of pharmacy school to go to med school to the pharmacy school admissions people )

Once you get into medical school having a BS (or not having one) is not at all important.

Please feel free to post more questions here or PM me.

Jason

 

[jdpharmd?]

I had NO IDEA that you didn't need a degree to get into med school! I just assumed that it was required. Wow, that is interesting... Learn something new every day.


Jd

 

[Triangulation]

Sorry guys, but I don't see it that way at all. What I am saying is if you really want to practice medicine you can. If you can get into pharm school, there is a medical school, and definitely a DO school that you can get into as well.

I'm saying this after picking the pharm pathway after scoring a 35Q on the august 2001 MCAT. I'm fairly certain that if I was willing to leave CA i'd have gotten in somewhere this year, but I had an epiphany when I realized that it wasn't what I wanted to do. What really moved me was pharmaceutical policy.

To put it simply, don't go to pharm school because you're afraid of not getting into medical school. To me that's no reason at all. If you want to be a physician apply until you get in. If you put it all out on the line you will.

Making the dough won't keep you in it if you hate it. I know plenty of physicians, dentists, and pharmacists who are leaving the field despite making serious loot, because they're not satisfied with what they're doing.

 

[LSUMED2006]

JDPHarmd: tecnnically, medical schools only have meager pre-recs and require only 90 hours and 3 years of college to get in; however, getting in with only those 3 years is another story...In fact, many schools have an agreement with state schools (especially if the med school is a state school) in which you enter medschool with 3 years and after your first year the undergrad school you entered would award you with a BS degree, same goes for some phd programs. Every year, I would say about 5% of the med school class has no degree.

Triangulation, unfortunately, everyone who REALLY, REALLY wants to be a physician, pharmacist, etc. does not get to, no matter how many times they apply.

>To put it simply, don't go to pharm school because you're afraid of not getting into medical school. To me that's no reason at all. If you want to be a physician apply until you get in. If you put it all out on the line you will.


Putting it all on the line can be (very) bad advice. I agree about trying more than once to get in, but, as I said earlier, not everyone who does this is able to get in. I feel that in life a better quote often (though certainly not always) would be "failing to plan is planning to fail." To you, going to pharmacy school for the reasons listed above may indeed be a poor reason, but to many it makes GREAT sense.

>Making the dough won't keep you in it if you hate it. I know plenty of physicians, dentists, and pharmacists who are leaving the field despite making serious loot, because they're not satisfied with what they're doing.

You ahve to look at the other side of the coin. The money available in pharmacy makes it worth it for MANY people. I have long said that pharmacy is a GREAT field, for many reasons. There are extremely few fields that guarantee such a great salary immediately after college. Going the pharmacy route makes great business sense. I commend desi bum for his/her planning ahead, even out of high school. With plans and motivations like that, I'm sure he/she will do awesome in life. The best advice we can give is for desi to work in both a pharmacy and physician setting. Who knows, he may HATE medicine and love pharmacy and vice versa. At this point, he is just planning, and he is damn smart for doing so.

>I'm saying this after picking the pharm pathway after scoring a 35Q on the august 2001 MCAT. I'm fairly certain that if I was willing to leave CA i'd have gotten in somewhere this year, but I had an epiphany when I realized that it wasn't what I wanted to do. What really moved me was pharmaceutical policy.

Be careful and realize that just what would or would not make you happy may not be anywhere near what would make desi happy. If he can do a killer job in a pharmacy, make 90K, I say great to him, even if he hates the job.

If pharmacy is right for you, then I am truly happy for you. It wasnt right for me, though I REALLY loved certain aspects of it and miss it to this day. You like posting your MCAT score (jk). I'd be proud of it too. I mean, wasn't quite as well as I did on the august 2001 mcat, but it still is very good (a little friendly prodding).

Anyway, desi, don't let anyone discourage you. You do what makes YOU happy, not what I or anyone else says. Personally, you remind me a lot of me in highschool, and I think you are definitely on the right path.

Jason

 

[Triangulation]

alright lsumed. i can't strongly disagree w/anything you said, so cool.

of course this is all a very personal process, and a very substantial decision. I'm leary because of my own experience hunting for back-up plans. I just frown on pursuing something of such gravity with hesitancies. That's just me. Contigency plans are great, but you should believe in your primary effort with all your ardor.
It will make that primary effort better.

This may seem cheesy, but it's been correct more than not as an analogy for life. I did tournament karate for a long time. You often learn to through a second technique right after the first. The first one will open them up and the second will land the punch. But, when I decided that my first attack wasn't just gonna be a diversion, that it was gonna be a full assault with a second to follow things turned around for my sparring. If you're scratching your head, i'm saying believe in your effort 100%. Sure, fine, have a back-up plan, but understand what that back-up plan is. I'm telling everyone that working retail pharmacy is a completely different animal than working as a physician. It can be just as, if not more satisfying and rewarding but it's very different.

This is only my op, and it's no more right than anyone else's.

 

[LSUMED2006]

>I just frown on pursuing something of such gravity with hesitancies. That's just me. Contigency plans are great, but you should believe in your primary effort with all your ardor.
It will make that primary effort better.

We do agree that if you are going to pursue something of such gravity, then you should indeed do it with all one's being. For me, medicine is my calling, and I pursued it as such. My only point is that there are some people who REALLY, REALLY want to be __________, but they simply can't do it, no matter how hard they try. However, I do believe that many people give up WAY to early and aren't willing to sacrifice enough to fulfill their dreams.

> I'm telling everyone that working retail pharmacy is a completely different animal than working as a physician. It can be just as, if not more satisfying and rewarding but it's very different.


I agree that they indeed are very different; however, just because they are extremely different doesn't mean that they both can't be extremely rewarding to the same person for totally different reasons.

Did you study much for the MCAT? I studied a good bit, and it really paid off; I was just wondering how you prepared for it.

Jason

 

[desi bum]

Hey

I am still new to this whole SDN forum thing, but I swear, it gets addicting after a while.

I went to see my guidance counselor today about this whole pharm/med thing. And she gave me similar advice as to what Jason had to say about all this. She even called up the college for me and found out that if i wanted to transfer out of pharmacy and to major in something else (or go to med school), that would be a lot easier than starting out majoring in.. anything else and then transfer into pharmacy (rejection from med). It's also VERY competitive to get into the school of pharmacy at my college (Rutgers).

I didn't really look into any colleges my junior year, and I didn't realize how important my SATs would count. That was my fault.. I didn't know much about any 7/8 yr med programs either; otherwise I would've worked REALLY hard to break 1400 to get into some kind of med program like that. I did.. decent (actually really bad) on my SATs (close to 1200) and I applied to my state school, got in. Rutgers has a good rep for their pharmacy program, and my parents encouraged me to apply just to see if I would get in. (Approx 2000 students applied with me, for only 180 seats, and of course, the ones with higher SATs/ GPA got in, and I got "lowered down" to this 2+4 pharm program) It's basically a weed-out program, to see if I (and other students like me) can put up with the general sciences courses and maintain a 2.3 gpa.

I don't really mean to brag, but as a senior I am taking AP Bio and AP Chem (took AP Calc last year). And I am not gonna take the AP tests for them cuz 1) med schools dont usually accept AP credits, and 2) I wanna rock my gpa sky high when I start out.

So yea, that's how i got involved in this whole pharmacy program thing. After getting my acceptance I even worked at a retail pharmacy (Eckerds drugs) for 3 months. And I do know what kind of work they have to put up. And yes, like many other people, I HATED WORKING IN RETAIL PHARMACY. But I agree with Jason, there are MANY benefits with the Pharm D. The pharmacist who was working there (hated her job too) just graduated out of USIP (PCPS) 2 years ago and she was gettin so many offers, etc. and at Eckerds she was making good $85,000 a year. And if I come to a position where I have to support my family and myself with money, I'd def work in retail, with that kind of money, even though I hate it.

Anyways, I quit my job in retail cuz I couldn't put up with it. Specially with my workload in school. And as we got towards the end of AP Bio, we started learning about animal physiology, and that's what got me interested in the whole med thing. I loved the dissections (heart, brain, kidneys, etc) and after the whole physiology unit was over we did a cat dissection for the whole week, and I loved every bit of it.

And now that my time to notify my school was coming up, I was really confused as to where to go. And you guys definately gave me some good advices (and i look forward to read more as they come). I started to plan ahead and think maturely about my future. And I didn't wanna repeat my mistakes that I made in high school (not looking into colleges and not studying hard enough for SATs), so now I am just gonna plan ahead about college and think twice before each step. It's like chess game, I have to plan out all my moves and think of the consequences.

Today after school, I even went to the local hospital (Morristown Memorial Hosp) in my town and asked if i can do some sort of "job shadowing" within the Pharmacy dept. I've already experienced retail, now I am gonna check this out. I also dropped off an app to volunteer at the hospital, and for the summer I am gonna volunteer at the first aid squad in my town, and also take the EMT course and get certified.

Sorry if i bored ya with my ..freakin novel. But I gotta go for now, I'll check back later.

- desi

ps - im a guy

 

[Triangulation]

Did you study much for the MCAT? I studied a good bit, and it really paid off; I was just wondering how you prepared for it.

yeah, took kaplan and everything. what's more amazing is out of the four or five people I prepped with i was on the lower end of the spectrum. Two people i studied with got 38-40.

I'm glad you're so into medicine. That's always a good thing. Enthusiasm can carry you through a ton of crud.
---------------------------------------------------------
Sounds like you've got kind've a plan desi bum. Good luck with it.

 

[Triangulation]

friendly little caveat though desi. Both UCSF, UCSD, USC do count APs for pre-reqs so you might save yourself some heartache if you just took the AP exams. I just had to send them my AP transcript. That took care of a lot of coursework.

 

[dgroulx]

Accepting AP credit is up to the school. At UF, they don't accept any of it. You need to check at the schools to which you are applying.

 

[carpe diem]

Considering the question of PharmD as "backup" in medical school application. Yes, can't find a better preparation for medical school but this will not guarentee admission to even particular medical schools (MD or DO).

In fact, beware of medical admission committees questioning the ethics of taking someone' else's place in pharmacy school while you are only trying to prepare for medical school ( if this is the case) And if you admit, it is your backup plan, it doesn't necessarily show the determination to get into med school that most adcoms are looking for. But I think the former point of being questioned about the ethics of "wasting" pharmacy training (esp if a state school) on med school preparation is something you better have an answer for if you apply to med school while in the PHarmD program. Just being devil's advocate. But this came up more than once in my med school applications ,and I had wanted to be a physician since age 9 ( way before I became a Pharmacist) !!

Otherwise, I realize this is a difficult decision and the others on the thread have shared some good advice. Just don't do what I did........go for medicine if it is your calling.....go for it with all you have...... and don't ever ever give up. I finally ended up in medical school where I needed to be at age 39. I was good at repression for many years, but always deep down knew that I needed to try again for the calling that I believe God wanted me to pursue.

 

[Monkeyguts]

Carpe Diem,

I sent you a PM

 

[desi flava]

damn i can't believe this thread is still alive..anyways i decided not to go into pharmacy (sorry to all of u who gave me great advise..i still appreciate it though!)

i had to re-evaluate my goals and realized that i wanna be a physician more than anything..and although pharm d. would be a great back up, i didn't wanna take some1 else's seat and ruin his/her dreams of being a pharmacist.. just for my sake of back up. i'd rather have some1 else take my spot and let 'em be happy..
and also i wouldnt know how to answer the adcoms when/if i was asked why i wanted to drop out of pharm n go into med..cuz i dun want them to think that it was my last resort

i just hope i dont regret my decision later

anyways..i decided to go into the school of engineering..(biomed eng).. n then ill apply to med..and if i dont get in..i'll apply again

whatever.. we'll see wut happens

 

[Modnar]

Good luck!!

 

[StevenS]

you gotta be realistic and cruel here. coz that's how life is. you know yourself best. will you be able to make the kind of grades that are required to be accepted into medical school? will it be the end of the world for you if you dont get into medical school and end up with a bio/chem degree? try to avoid looking at pharm school as a stepping stone though. 6 years is a loooong time. you just may get sick of the whole school thing and not apply afterwards. and then regret not going the traditional route.
how large is your margin for error? would you be able to afford going to pharm school after getting a bio/chem degree and not getting into med school? that 2.3 GPA is nothing compared to the GPA you'll need to maintain to have any hopes of getting into med school.
dreams are for suckers - you gotta be a realist, this is your life not some hollywood movie. there's no guaranteed happy ending.

 

[carpe diem]

Monkeyguts, I PM'd you back.



carpe

 

[Triangulation]

Desi,

That's great you're going for it dude. You gotta do what you're most satisfied with doing. Bust your a$% and you'll get in there. If you give all you've got (and this means more than you think you've got, seriously) then you'll get in for sure