Pharmacist job options overseas/abroad

[Dred Pirate]

This is something I have always considered, and would love to make it a reality at some point in my life. I got curious looking to see what some options are. I was interested in others experiences that have done such.

With a US license:

1. DOD - I found a job at Ramstein Air Base - but the pay was between $64k and $85k. Is the pay for a typical civilian staff Rph that low? Does it come with any sort of living allowance in addition to the salary? Are they all contract (ie two years) or are some of them permanent?

2. US Territories - USVI, Guam, Micronesia (not a US territory but long time ago I found a job that if you had a US license you were qualified). These salaries compare to the US, but often isolated, areas were island fever can be real.

3. Any job that lets you work remotely, whether it be order verification (assuming you can clear any states rules on living abroad while doing this - I haven't looked into it), or consulting type work.

Getting a local license:

What countries have the most comparable salary structure? I have heard Switzerland, but for me, it would have to be English speaking, which limits dramatically. Aussie? New Zealand? UK? I know someone who worked in an "American" hospital in Dubai - but she was fluent in Arabic, and I really wouldn't want to live in the middle east. Honestly, Europe would be the top of my list.

Anyway, this might be a twilight job for me, but lately I really have been itching and thinking "what if"

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[randompharm]

I can tell you in regards to some of the ones you mentioned. Europe, you won’t earn anything close to what you would in the US. 30-50k depending on where you go. In Germany, you’ll need to pass a German fluency exam in order to work, along with a bunch of other politics. This is similar across other European countries. Switzerland pay is like 60-70k which is akin to new grad salaries in US so it depends on what you view as “comparable paying”.

Dubai hires Indian pharmacists mostly at criminally low salaries (20-30k is not uncommon, but they sometimes cover housing). Can’t speak for NZ but have heard pay is not much compared to US. UK is quite low compared to US. It’s basically US (which has been evening out with every other country now), Canada, etc. for the best pay. If you have a good paying job now, i’d say hold on to it despite temptation as pharmacist salaries in the US are becoming a joke (75-80k is the new grad rate), and there is about to be an influx of individuals who tried to stick it to the corner stores by leaving, when loans resume in a couple of months, who will be taking anything to make payments.

 

[letsquitpharm]

Remote work is very typical in pharma right now, but the job isn't routine pharmacist work.

 

[ValeRx]

This is something I have always considered, and would love to make it a reality at some point in my life. I got curious looking to see what some options are. I was interested in others experiences that have done such.

With a US license:

1. DOD - I found a job at Ramstein Air Base - but the pay was between $64k and $85k. Is the pay for a typical civilian staff Rph that low? Does it come with any sort of living allowance in addition to the salary? Are they all contract (ie two years) or are some of them permanent?

I think @Caverject can best answer your question on this, but DoD civilians get something called Overseas Housing Allowance (OHA) which is in addition to the salary listed there. I also believe there are no permanent overseas duty tours for civilians, they are limited to a few years.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I'm all about this discussion

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

This is something I have always considered, and would love to make it a reality at some point in my life. I got curious looking to see what some options are. I was interested in others experiences that have done such.

With a US license:

1. DOD - I found a job at Ramstein Air Base - but the pay was between $64k and $85k. Is the pay for a typical civilian staff Rph that low? Does it come with any sort of living allowance in addition to the salary? Are they all contract (ie two years) or are some of them permanent?

2. US Territories - USVI, Guam, Micronesia (not a US territory but long time ago I found a job that if you had a US license you were qualified). These salaries compare to the US, but often isolated, areas were island fever can be real.

3. Any job that lets you work remotely, whether it be order verification (assuming you can clear any states rules on living abroad while doing this - I haven't looked into it), or consulting type work.

Getting a local license:

What countries have the most comparable salary structure? I have heard Switzerland, but for me, it would have to be English speaking, which limits dramatically. Aussie? New Zealand? UK? I know someone who worked in an "American" hospital in Dubai - but she was fluent in Arabic, and I really wouldn't want to live in the middle east. Honestly, Europe would be the top of my list.

Anyway, this might be a twilight job for me, but lately I really have been itching and thinking "what if"

Here's a New Zealand hospital pharmacist contract: https://apex.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/NDHB-Pharmacy-SECA-25-February-2019-30-April-2021.pdf I can't speak specifically for the UK/Ireland, but the Irish and British pharmacists at my hospital seemed to think the wages were pretty comparable to what they had been making previously. Everyone thought I was crazy when I said I was making 3 times more in the US.

There are far more salary steps than when I was there, but as an American capable of making IVs and working ED/critical care, you can probably negotiate your way into the 80-90k a year (NZ) range. That's like 50-60K US. The Northland DHB tops out at 113k NZ (73k US), but that would be either supervisor level or what New Zealand considers an advanced degree (prescriptive authority, etc). You'd need a year or two of NZ University training to get there. You could do this while working full time. When I was there, Australia payed more and all the young Kiwi pharmacists would go over there for a couple of years to make money. The Australian Dollar has weakened considerably since then and New Zealand probably pays a little better at present.

With a working spouse or a lot of savings, you can have a pretty good life in New Zealand. Meth addicts rob liquor stores with machetes because there are not guns. You never have to worry about health care/health insurance, and everyone speaks English...sort of.

Clearly, this is not a venture you would undertake for the money. It is hard to beat the lifestyle. My plan is to retire there sometime between now and 2037.

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

Here's another contract with better descriptions of the steps. Looks like you're managing people at 12 (94,920 NZ) and above. https://hawkesbay.health.nz/assets/MECAS/Pharmacy-MECA.pdf

One more thing: I found it impossible to set up remote work while outside the US. Even PBM type stuff. They were concerned about legal implications with my being in a foreign country and had policies regarding my ability to get into an office in the event of IT problems. This was several years ago and I'm sure there are more remote friendly companies now.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Here's a New Zealand hospital pharmacist contract: https://apex.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/NDHB-Pharmacy-SECA-25-February-2019-30-April-2021.pdf I can't speak specifically for the UK/Ireland, but the Irish and British pharmacists at my hospital seemed to think the wages were pretty comparable to what they had been making previously. Everyone thought I was crazy when I said I was making 3 times more in the US.

There are far more salary steps than when I was there, but as an American capable of making IVs and working ED/critical care, you can probably negotiate your way into the 80-90k a year (NZ) range. That's like 50-60K US. The Northland DHB tops out at 113k NZ (73k US), but that would be either supervisor level or what New Zealand considers an advanced degree (prescriptive authority, etc). You'd need a year or two of NZ University training to get there. You could do this while working full time. When I was there, Australia payed more and all the young Kiwi pharmacists would go over there for a couple of years to make money. The Australian Dollar has weakened considerably since then and New Zealand probably pays a little better at present.

With a working spouse or a lot of savings, you can have a pretty good life in New Zealand. Meth addicts rob liquor stores with machetes because there are not guns. You never have to worry about health care/health insurance, and everyone speaks English...sort of.

Clearly, this is not a venture you would undertake for the money. It is hard to beat the lifestyle. My plan is to retire there sometime between now and 2037.

ya - I completely get it wouldn't be for the money- we have zero debt other than our mortgage which is <40% LTV thanks to the recent housing price surge. Again, this would probably be as pseudo-retirement type job as it would be really hard to leave my 170k a year job I have now with 8 weeks PDO knowing when I come back, I will take a paycut.

I did find a job in Bermuda a few years ago, ironically my wife would get paid more, and I would get paid less, and when you calculate in the tax implications, it was almost a wash. I can dream, but likely when I am in my mid 50's it would make sense. Put in 10 more years of easy money then serious considerations.

 

[njac]

I have friends working in Qatar. Not sure how the pay works out but it sounds like all of their work in the hospital is done in English.

Another couple are EM MD and RN in Abu Dhabi - I’m under the impression they’re making money hand over fist but are looking to go to Dubai for a more interesting life outside of the hospital.

 

[samven582]

World Health Organization?

 

[Junfan50]

This is something I have always considered, and would love to make it a reality at some point in my life. I got curious looking to see what some options are. I was interested in others experiences that have done such.

With a US license:

1. DOD - I found a job at Ramstein Air Base - but the pay was between $64k and $85k. Is the pay for a typical civilian staff Rph that low? Does it come with any sort of living allowance in addition to the salary? Are they all contract (ie two years) or are some of them permanent?

2. US Territories - USVI, Guam, Micronesia (not a US territory but long time ago I found a job that if you had a US license you were qualified). These salaries compare to the US, but often isolated, areas were island fever can be real.

3. Any job that lets you work remotely, whether it be order verification (assuming you can clear any states rules on living abroad while doing this - I haven't looked into it), or consulting type work.

Getting a local license:

What countries have the most comparable salary structure? I have heard Switzerland, but for me, it would have to be English speaking, which limits dramatically. Aussie? New Zealand? UK? I know someone who worked in an "American" hospital in Dubai - but she was fluent in Arabic, and I really wouldn't want to live in the middle east. Honestly, Europe would be the top of my list.

Anyway, this might be a twilight job for me, but lately I really have been itching and thinking "what if"

I’m a current DoD pharmacist working in Germany. Ramstein AFB will be an outpatient position. The salary is that low, but you can negotiate your GS step if you are a new DoD civilian. You will get LQA on top of your salary which is tax free. LQA is dependent on your family size and can be found on OPM.gov. With LQA, you get up to the max allowed for your category but you do not get to keep any of it. So if your max is $50k for LQA, you can’t rent a house for $20k and keep the difference. LQA will cover your rent and utilities. There is also a Post Allowance that you would receive and that is based on your family size as well.

All DoD positions are for a 36 month contract agreement with a possible extension for an additional 24 months. The position might be listed as a permanent position, but you will not be able to stay for more than 5 years.

 

[Dred Pirate]

I’m a current DoD pharmacist working in Germany. Ramstein AFB will be an outpatient position. The salary is that low, but you can negotiate your GS step if you are a new DoD civilian. You will get LQA on top of your salary which is tax free. LQA is dependent on your family size and can be found on OPM.gov. With LQA, you get up to the max allowed for your category but you do not get to keep any of it. So if your max is $50k for LQA, you can’t rent a house for $20k and keep the difference. LQA will cover your rent and utilities. There is also a Post Allowance that you would receive and that is based on your family size as well.

All DoD positions are for a 36 month contract agreement with a possible extension for an additional 24 months. The position might be listed as a permanent position, but you will not be able to stay for more than 5 years.

thanks - appreciate the insight - as to the years- I really think if I do this, it would be a twilight career, so the 5 year thing shouldn't' be an issue.

couple of questions.
1, What would an average LQA for a family of three be? Can you live well decent off of it?
2. How much of an Post allowance should be expected? Likely cover most of your food?
3. how hard is it to get these jobs? I likely wouldn't be competitive for a retail gig - but have ton of varied hospital experience/
4. What would happen if you tried to break the original contract before the 36 months were up?

thanks again

 

[Junfan50]

thanks - appreciate the insight - as to the years- I really think if I do this, it would be a twilight career, so the 5 year thing shouldn't' be an issue.

couple of questions.
1, What would an average LQA for a family of three be? Can you live well decent off of it?
2. How much of an Post allowance should be expected? Likely cover most of your food?
3. how hard is it to get these jobs? I likely wouldn't be competitive for a retail gig - but have ton of varied hospital experience/
4. What would happen if you tried to break the original contract before the 36 months were up?

thanks again

1. You could expect roughly $39,400 in LQA for a family of 3. This would cover your rent and utilities. LQA rates can be found here: U.S. Department of State | Home Page

You can live decently. You would just have to find a house or apartment that fits your budget. To get an idea of housing costs, you can go to either of these websites:

Housing & Real Estate For Sale In Ramstein, DE | Ramstein Bookoo

ramstein.bookoo.com is the premium online classifieds community for Ramstein, Germany and surrounding areas. The friendliest online yard sale for garage sale lovers.

ramstein.bookoo.com

https://www.homes.mil/homes/DispatchServlet/HomesEntry once you click accept, type Ramstein in the search and you’ll be able to pull up homes in the Ramstein area.

2.) Post Allowance is also based on family size. You could expect around $350. It’s definitely possible to buy groceries on the local economy. It’s actually much cheaper than the commissary on base.

3.) They are very competitive. There were around 300 applicants last time there was an opening. It’s not impossible, and there have been many hired who had never worked for DoD in the past. The outpatient position isn’t necessarily retail. There’s no insurance or cash involved. It’s just filling and dispensing. No previous retail experience required. There’s only 1 location where you could work inpatient, and that is at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center. However, there are many outpatient clinics in various locations such as Italy and Belgium.

4.) You would have to get a curtailment approved if you want to leave early. Usually that involves explaining your reason and providing proof for why you want to leave early. Leaving early without curtailment approval could result in you paying back the government for what it cost them to bring you and your family to Europe.

If you have any other questions, just let me know.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I’m a current DoD pharmacist working in Germany. Ramstein AFB will be an outpatient position. The salary is that low, but you can negotiate your GS step if you are a new DoD civilian. You will get LQA on top of your salary which is tax free. LQA is dependent on your family size and can be found on OPM.gov. With LQA, you get up to the max allowed for your category but you do not get to keep any of it. So if your max is $50k for LQA, you can’t rent a house for $20k and keep the difference. LQA will cover your rent and utilities. There is also a Post Allowance that you would receive and that is based on your family size as well.

All DoD positions are for a 36 month contract agreement with a possible extension for an additional 24 months. The position might be listed as a permanent position, but you will not be able to stay for more than 5 years.

That honestly sounds really cool.

If night shift CVS ever ceases to be a thing, I might look into that some day.

 

[Dred Pirate]

1. You could expect roughly $39,400 in LQA for a family of 3. This would cover your rent and utilities. LQA rates can be found here: U.S. Department of State | Home Page

You can live decently. You would just have to find a house or apartment that fits your budget. To get an idea of housing costs, you can go to either of these websites:

Housing & Real Estate For Sale In Ramstein, DE | Ramstein Bookoo

ramstein.bookoo.com is the premium online classifieds community for Ramstein, Germany and surrounding areas. The friendliest online yard sale for garage sale lovers.

ramstein.bookoo.com

https://www.homes.mil/homes/DispatchServlet/HomesEntry once you click accept, type Ramstein in the search and you’ll be able to pull up homes in the Ramstein area.

2.) Post Allowance is also based on family size. You could expect around $350. It’s definitely possible to buy groceries on the local economy. It’s actually much cheaper than the commissary on base.

3.) They are very competitive. There were around 300 applicants last time there was an opening. It’s not impossible, and there have been many hired who had never worked for DoD in the past. The outpatient position isn’t necessarily retail. There’s no insurance or cash involved. It’s just filling and dispensing. No previous retail experience required. There’s only 1 location where you could work inpatient, and that is at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center. However, there are many outpatient clinics in various locations such as Italy and Belgium.

4.) You would have to get a curtailment approved if you want to leave early. Usually that involves explaining your reason and providing proof for why you want to leave early. Leaving early without curtailment approval could result in you paying back the government for what it cost them to bring you and your family to Europe.

If you have any other questions, just let me know.

thanks man - obviously I would be more competitive for a hospital based job. Is that really the only hospital in Europe? I know two people who worked in Rota, Spain - both were active duty (one was a pharmacist and one was a physician) - I know they call it a hospital, but do they not have inpatients?

Overall, for a couple of years at the end of my career, I really don't care what the job is, I just think it would be cool to live in Europe for a couple of years.

 

[Junfan50]

thanks man - obviously I would be more competitive for a hospital based job. Is that really the only hospital in Europe? I know two people who worked in Rota, Spain - both were active duty (one was a pharmacist and one was a physician) - I know they call it a hospital, but do they not have inpatients?

Overall, for a couple of years at the end of my career, I really don't care what the job is, I just think it would be cool to live in Europe for a couple of years.

Anytime! The one in Rota is a small Naval hospital with limited in-patient services. I haven’t been to that one, but id guess it’s more for L&D and outpatient services. LRMC is the largest American hospital outside the US. Granted, if we’re not at war then things can be pretty slow. Don’t expect a full ICU with multiple patients on drips all the time.

Living in Europe is, for me, much better than living in the states. If you can get one of those jobs towards the end of your career, I’d recommend it.

 

[nampa]

I can tell you in regards to some of the ones you mentioned. Europe, you won’t earn anything close to what you would in the US. 30-50k depending on where you go. In Germany, you’ll need to pass a German fluency exam in order to work, along with a bunch of other politics. This is similar across other European countries. Switzerland pay is like 60-70k which is akin to new grad salaries in US so it depends on what you view as “comparable paying”.

Dubai hires Indian pharmacists mostly at criminally low salaries (20-30k is not uncommon, but they sometimes cover housing). Can’t speak for NZ but have heard pay is not much compared to US. UK is quite low compared to US. It’s basically US (which has been evening out with every other country now), Canada, etc. for the best pay. If you have a good paying job now, i’d say hold on to it despite temptation as pharmacist salaries in the US are becoming a joke (75-80k is the new grad rate), and there is about to be an influx of individuals who tried to stick it to the corner stores by leaving, when loans resume in a couple of months, who will be taking anything to make payments.

Is the mid east totally kaput now? I heard speciality (maybe hospital staffing?) is still empoyable out there? Too bad the Brits lost their will to live. Those ridiculous emirates were still begging the British to stick around as recently as the late 1970s and gas had less mark-up then.

 

[RXDOC1986]

Is the mid east totally kaput now? I heard speciality (maybe hospital staffing?) is still empoyable out there? Too bad the Brits lost their will to live. Those ridiculous emirates were still begging the British to stick around as recently as the late 1970s and gas had less mark-up then.

When I graduated from Pharmacy School with a Pharm.D. in 1986, US clinical pharmacists were in great demand in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The money was excellent and the Foreign Nationals lived in separate compounds away from the local folk. I did look into it, but my young bride refused to entertain living in such backward cultures for any amount of money (and we are BOTH born in the Middle East). Later the influx of Indian/Pakistani/Phillipino MD's, Pharmacists and Nurses willing to work for minimum wages ended any chance of profitable work in the Middle East. Yes Clinical Pharmacist in hospitals are still employable if you are willing to work for $20-30K a year (paid in Rials not dollars) AND live within the constraints of an ISLAMIC nation (it's no New Zealand or Europe). No thanks.