Pharmacist shortage

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ItsOverZyvox said:
I don't have a clue on long term prospect of retail pharmacy. As a pharmacist, it boggles my mind that retail pharmacist are paid as well as they do... I understand they work hard...then again, so do the technicians at a much lower salary.

I like to think Pharmacy as a product driven profession to some degree. But it will be the the product distribution process in conjuction with conitive process of providing pharmacy services that will survive the profession.

......

Most of you guys know how I feel about retail pharmacy. But I got into pharmacy because I wanted to own a drug store. I still dream of owning a drug store... a small town drug store with a little breakfast cafe and lunch menu... with free coffee. And a bait shack. I'll be the old geezer hanging out with the locals...trading stories.
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So you finally admit it. You started your career in pharmacy, because you wanted to be involved in "community" practice. This entire time, you've been the spokesman for "clinical" and "hospital" pharmacy. Interesting...

Lots of students want to go into "community" practice, and the majority of them pursue it upon graduation. In my opinion, the role of a "clinical" or "specialty" pharmacist is foreign to pre-pharms. They see what "community" pharmacists do on a regular basis, and they either 1) try to emulate the pharmacists they see within the community by going to pharmacy school or 2) follow in the footsteps of a pharmacist with whom they are acquainted with and attend pharmacy school.

I can't really think of anyone, that I know of, who applied to pharmacy school to be worked to death with mindless cashier work, relentless pill counting, and drive-thru sensors dinging constantly. They just wanted to be that pharmacist who talks to the public about medications.

"Clinical" pharmacy along with residencies and fellowships are highly emphasized in pharmacy school. IMO, if post-residency "specialists", aka pharmacy school professors, did not solicit students, then the interest in "clinical" pharmacy would not exist to the extent that it does today.

From my experiences thus far, I believe that residencies are a waste of time and an insult to PharmDs who are having to "suffer" after graduation. Whatever happened to on-the-job training? What a miserable way to gain experience! They're basically saying that graduates should "suffer" for one or two years, and then they're free to do whatever they want. (That's the gist of what was said in my first day back in class.)

"Clinical" jobs are still available to PharmDs without residencies in some areas. WVU got a job, remember?


I applied to pharmacy school after working with a "clinical" pharmacist who had been a faculty member at another pharmacy school. I genuinely loved her stories. She talked about making rounds, teaching, making recommendations, and other sorts of duties. Frankly speaking, I was inspired. She gave me the right information that I needed to make a decision about my future at the right time, and I changed my career path because of what she was able to portray. It seemed "perfect".

However, once I started working in a hospital setting, I grew to dislike those people that I would be doing rounds with someday in the future. They were snide, pushy, needy, irresponsible, lazy, and "above" me. They made me feel like crap!, and there I was busting my butt without an ounce of appreciation.


So... look at how the tables have turned. Your initial interest in pharmacy was "community" based, and my decision to become a pharmacist was "clinically" based. You work as a "clinical" something or another (no one really knows exactly what you do Mr. Mysterious), and I work as a pharmacist-to-be who chats it up with clientèle in an intimate little drug store where "everybody knows your name".

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf5ojdakpq8&feature=related[/youtube]
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PharmDstudent said:
So you finally admit it. You started your career in pharmacy, because you wanted to be involved in "community" practice. This entire time, you've been the spokesman for "clinical" and "hospital" pharmacy. Interesting...

Lots of students want to go into "community" practice, and the majority of them pursue it upon graduation. In my opinion, the role of a "clinical" or "specialty" pharmacist is foreign to pre-pharms. They see what "community" pharmacists do on a regular basis, and they either 1) try to emulate the pharmacists they see within the community by going to pharmacy school or 2) follow in the footsteps of a pharmacist with whom they are acquainted with and attend pharmacy school.

I can't really think of anyone, that I know of, who applied to pharmacy school to be worked to death with mindless cashier work, relentless pill counting, and drive-thru sensors dinging constantly. They just wanted to be that pharmacist who talks to the public about medications.

"Clinical" pharmacy along with residencies and fellowships are highly emphasized in pharmacy school. IMO, if post-residency "specialists", aka pharmacy school professors, did not solicit students, then the interest in "clinical" pharmacy would not exist to the extent that it does today.

From my experiences thus far, I believe that residencies are a waste of time and an insult to PharmDs who are having to "suffer" after graduation. Whatever happened to on-the-job training? What a miserable way to gain experience! They're basically saying that graduates should "suffer" for one or two years, and then they're free to do whatever they want. (That's the gist of what was said in my first day back in class.)

"Clinical" jobs are still available to PharmDs without residencies in some areas. WVU got a job, remember?


I applied to pharmacy school after working with a "clinical" pharmacist who had been a faculty member at another pharmacy school. I genuinely loved her stories. She talked about making rounds, teaching, making recommendations, and other sorts of duties. Frankly speaking, I was inspired. She gave me the right information that I needed to make a decision about my future at the right time, and I changed my career path because of what she was able to portray. It seemed "perfect".

However, once I started working in a hospital setting, I grew to dislike those people that I would be doing rounds with someday in the future. They were snide, pushy, needy, irresponsible, lazy, and "above" me. They made me feel like crap!, and there I was busting my butt without an ounce of appreciation.


So... look at how the tables have turned. Your initial interest in pharmacy was "community" based, and my decision to become a pharmacist was "clinically" based. You work as a "clinical" something or another (no one really knows exactly what you do Mr. Mysterious), and I work as a pharmacist-to-be who chats it up with clientèle in an intimate little drug store where "everybody knows your name".

[youtube]Lf5ojdakpq8[/youtube]
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Your post is insightful and amusing.

I agree that pharmacy schools are behind the residency push.

I find it interesting that it appears you are stereotyping all "clinical" pharmacists as "snide, pushy, needy, irresponsible, lazy" and acting "above you." Most community pharmacists get very defensive (and rightfully so) about the stereotypes placed on them, yet you do it.

You haven't even graduated yet and unfortunately you have had experiences that have led for you to be yet another pharmacist that "takes sides" in the stupid-@$$ "community vs. hospital" or "clinical vs. non-clinical" b.s. we have going on as a profession. I find it discouraging really. Oh, well.........

Oh, one last thing...........I also find it amusing that as a student your vast experience has given you the wisdom that you "believe that residencies are a waste of time and an insult to PharmDs who are having to "suffer" after graduation." Bit of advice from someone who has been around the block a few more times than you, if someone else wants to further their education (via residency, Masters, another degree altogether) then that is their decision and not a "waste of time." And if they choose to do it, how is an "insult" to PharmDs who don't do it? :confused:

But good for you for realizing what you want to do after you graduate, seriously, you are ahead of many college students. Just be happy with what you do.
 
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gotdrugs said:
Your post is insightful and amusing.

I agree that pharmacy schools are behind the residency push.

I find it interesting that it appears you are stereotyping all "clinical" pharmacists as "snide, pushy, needy, irresponsible, lazy" and acting "above you." Most community pharmacists get very defensive (and rightfully so) about the stereotypes placed on them, yet you do it.

You haven't even graduated yet and unfortunately you have had experiences that have led for you to be yet another pharmacist that "takes sides" in the stupid-@$$ "community vs. hospital" or "clinical vs. non-clinical" b.s. we have going on as a profession. I find it discouraging really.

Oh, one last thing...........I also find it amusing that as a student your vast experience has given you the wisdom that you "believe that residencies are a waste of time and an insult to PharmDs who are having to "suffer" after graduation." Bit of advice from someone who has been around the block a few more times than you, if someone else wants to further their education (via residency, Masters, another degree altogether) then that is their decision and not a "waste of time." And if they choose to do it, how is an "insult" to PharmDs who don't do it? :confused:
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You don't understand my post.
 
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Doctors and nurses acted that way- the people out on the floors.

The "suffering" is an insult.
I'm having a hard time explaining the insult thing... worried about this soon-to-be bad boy Hurricane Gustav.

This house had 3-4 feet of water post-hurricane, circa 2005.
 
PharmDstudent said:
You don't understand my post.
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haha, i read his reply and was thinking "wtf did he read that wrong?" too.

The difference between the nursing shortage and the pharmacist shortage is.... you can't just push productivity onto a nurse, there are laws in place in many states limiting the # of pt's to a nurse, whereas pharmacy has no such laws to my knowledge.
 
confettiflyer said:
haha, i read his reply and was thinking "wtf did he read that wrong?" too.

The difference between the nursing shortage and the pharmacist shortage is.... you can't just push productivity onto a nurse, there are laws in place in many states limiting the # of pt's to a nurse, whereas pharmacy has no such laws to my knowledge.
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You've been MIA. Nice to see you back. :)

How's school? Has it started yet?
 
PharmDstudent said:
You've been MIA. Nice to see you back. :)

How's school? Has it started yet?
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Haha...glad to see someone noticed. I figured I'd give the flaming a rest while I get everything in order for the fall. I'm starting on the 2nd, still on the west coast enjoying the time off and lower humidity.
 
confettiflyer said:
Haha...glad to see someone noticed. I figured I'd give the flaming a rest while I get everything in order for the fall. I'm starting on the 2nd, still on the west coast enjoying the time off and lower humidity.
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Oh. Ok. Cool. Have you packed your snowshoes, yet? :p
 
PharmDstudent said:
Oh. Ok. Cool. Have you packed your snowshoes, yet? :p
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Yeah yeah shut up :mad: I think I can manage three blocks down the street. It's those bums and winos I've gotta worry about. My friend refused to give one money and he splashed a cup of (I hope it was) water on her. Hmm...need to buy some pepper spray.

And to keep this on topic...too many damn schools in philly, no CVS in center city is looking for interns I swear.
 
Look in the newspaper. Contact retail chains via application and email. Ask around. They might start recruiting on campus, since it's a new school, if you become desperate.

Hospitals will post information on their websites.


I have an interview next week for a second gig. :smuggrin:



Gotta go. TTYL. :)
 
PharmDstudent said:
Look in the newspaper. Contact retail chains via application and email. Ask around. They might start recruiting on campus, since it's a new school, if you become desperate.

Hospitals will post information on their websites.


I have an interview next week for a second gig. :smuggrin:
Click to expand...

hmmm...maybe actually looking will help. haha, the only reason i've stepped into a pharmacy in the area is to buy shaving cream and sharpies. I probably secretly do not want to work.

Actually...for CVS they pay their interns crap wages in PA, so I'm planning on flying back to CA for a week or two, get upgraded in the system to the southern california rate and work, then fly back and work in PA since your hourly rate transfers with you. Muahahaha...it's all about working the system (already cleared this w/ my PIC).
 
Thanks WVUPharm2007, Cleveland is cool! We have the lake, too!

Shortage in Cleveland is real. Salaries are much higher in Cleveland than say Pittsburgh. For example, I went to school in Pittsburgh, and my friends are getting offers for $81K-$98K per year. I got offers from $98K-$120K, with the average around $110K. These offers include both retail and hospital settings.

So, come to Cleveland! Lots of jobs with good salaries. And the weather is not that bad...I hate snow but it only lasts 3 months.


Cleveland does not have a pharmacy school...well NEUOCOP started in fall 2007 but won't graduate until 2011. Plus it is 40 miles away from Cleveland.
 
PharmDstudent said:
So you finally admit it. You started your career in pharmacy, because you wanted to be involved in "community" practice. This entire time, you've been the spokesman for "clinical" and "hospital" pharmacy. Interesting...

Lots of students want to go into "community" practice, and the majority of them pursue it upon graduation. In my opinion, the role of a "clinical" or "specialty" pharmacist is foreign to pre-pharms. They see what "community" pharmacists do on a regular basis, and they either 1) try to emulate the pharmacists they see within the community by going to pharmacy school or 2) follow in the footsteps of a pharmacist with whom they are acquainted with and attend pharmacy school.

I can't really think of anyone, that I know of, who applied to pharmacy school to be worked to death with mindless cashier work, relentless pill counting, and drive-thru sensors dinging constantly. They just wanted to be that pharmacist who talks to the public about medications.

"Clinical" pharmacy along with residencies and fellowships are highly emphasized in pharmacy school. IMO, if post-residency "specialists", aka pharmacy school professors, did not solicit students, then the interest in "clinical" pharmacy would not exist to the extent that it does today.

From my experiences thus far, I believe that residencies are a waste of time and an insult to PharmDs who are having to "suffer" after graduation. Whatever happened to on-the-job training? What a miserable way to gain experience! They're basically saying that graduates should "suffer" for one or two years, and then they're free to do whatever they want. (That's the gist of what was said in my first day back in class.)

"Clinical" jobs are still available to PharmDs without residencies in some areas. WVU got a job, remember?


I applied to pharmacy school after working with a "clinical" pharmacist who had been a faculty member at another pharmacy school. I genuinely loved her stories. She talked about making rounds, teaching, making recommendations, and other sorts of duties. Frankly speaking, I was inspired. She gave me the right information that I needed to make a decision about my future at the right time, and I changed my career path because of what she was able to portray. It seemed "perfect".

However, once I started working in a hospital setting, I grew to dislike those people that I would be doing rounds with someday in the future. They were snide, pushy, needy, irresponsible, lazy, and "above" me. They made me feel like crap!, and there I was busting my butt without an ounce of appreciation.


So... look at how the tables have turned. Your initial interest in pharmacy was "community" based, and my decision to become a pharmacist was "clinically" based. You work as a "clinical" something or another (no one really knows exactly what you do Mr. Mysterious), and I work as a pharmacist-to-be who chats it up with clientèle in an intimate little drug store where "everybody knows your name".

[youtube]Lf5ojdakpq8[/youtube]
Click to expand...

??? When did I ever not admit I got into pharmacy to own a drug store? This is different than wanting to work retail for a chain... I wanted to own businesses..which isn't much different than how I feel now.

And me wanting a burger joint pharmacy with a baitshack near a lake has always been one of my dreams... I may even carry a soda fountain!
 
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SpirivaSunrise said:
And I'm just curious about your opinion; are they leaving for good reasons or bad (from their perspective)?
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Being a DOP is a thankless job... and is too much for 1 person to handle.
And most people can't handle it...end up getting burned out and quit.

Those who retire from a DOP position learned to get away with doing very little with a tolerant administration... those are a dying breed now.

There aren't schools where you can go to learn to become a DOP...most of them learn by doing it on the job... and most end up doing a poor job. They just don't know it.
 
ItsOverZyvox said:
Being a DOP is a thankless job... and is too much for 1 person to handle.
And most people can't handle it...end up getting burned out and quit.

Those who retire from a DOP position learned to get away with doing very little with a tolerant administration... those are a dying breed now.

There aren't schools where you can go to learn to become a DOP...most of them learn by doing it on the job... and most end up doing a poor job. They just don't know it.
Click to expand...

True. Guess it's like that in many industries though; not many instances where school translates to real world application.

So, where did you learn? Who were your mentors...
 
Consider me an ignorant student. What is a DOP? Director of Pharmacy?
 
fungikid said:
Consider me an ignorant student. What is a DOP? Director of Pharmacy?
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Yup. Specifically, the director of pharmacy services at an institution. In retail, they are pharmacists in charge or pharmacy managers. Pharmacy Director is a job that is about 20 times as involved. Being a retail manager is simple. All of the buying is already negotiated...as are all of the treatment algorithms. You are just a shift supervisor, more or less. Scheduling and filling out DEA forms are typically your worst managerial duties.
 
SpirivaSunrise said:
True. Guess it's like that in many industries though; not many instances where school translates to real world application.

So, where did you learn? Who were your mentors...
Click to expand...

Ha. School. School prepares you to:
1) Be disappointed with the real world.
2) Be useless when real world challenges happens.
3) Be trapped in a subservient mindset where you are unprepared and uncomfortable in a leadership mindset.

I'm a realist and I'm already directing the support personnel at work as to what to do (take this here...go make this...grab me that....god I love not being in school).....so I guess I'm having no trouble with #s 1 & 3.

The real world stuff is a bitch. For instance, I was monitoring Vanc doses last week. I get a trough of 3 and a peak of 16 on a cellulitis case. I was pretty sure the physician throwing me numbers didn't even look at the correct administration times, nor the correct blood draw times.

So I hike up the stairs from our dungeon on the bottom of the hospital up to the 4th floor to check out the MAR. I dig the thing up and look for times. The first number says "1000"...which was the original generic time that was entered from the 1st dose.......so there is a line through it...ok...fine it's not like they started it when it was run through the computer. Underneath that it reads "2400"...which made no sense...and also has a line through it. Then underneath THAT it reads 1130...which had a scribble through it...and BESIDE that, it reads 1045. So was it started then? Well...the lab people say in the written record that the trough was taken at 1230....but then in the computer record, it was reported as being taken at 1055....and then the peak was taken at 1600. Nobody who was there had any idea what the hell was going on. In addition to this, the PREVIOUS dose was kinda shady, too. I suspected that it was given earlier than they actually charted it. Or not, who the hell knows.

And as I'm sitting there, beating my head against the counter, I'm hearing these nurses in the background yapping about how long they have to wait for the pharmacists to "type numbers into a computer program" and why they "don't just double the dose like usual (wtf?)".


So...given that mess....you don't know when it was given....when the trough was.....if the dose was late and, thus, made the peak artificially low....which in and of itself was messed up....not to mention the fact that I think the trough might have been like 13 hours after the end of a 2 hour infusion of a q12 dose...which is like 4 hours late...I think...I can't subtract, it's too late and I'm sleepy. But..yeah....what, oh trusty druggist, do you recommend?

I think said recommendation involved throwing arbitrary papers into the air, lowering my tie a notch, stumbling back to the pharmacy, and then just decreasing the interval....

I'm pretty sure what happened was that the prescriber saw the mess....wrote the magical words "Vanc adj per pharmacy" on an order...sent it over to us....then RAN LIKE HELL out the door leaving us dazed, confused, and responsible. Actually, no, I think she just didn't get numbers that made sense when she tried to readjust herself and wanted us to look at it....I won't assume malevolence so fast.

But...yeah...god bless the real world....
 
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SpirivaSunrise said:
True. Guess it's like that in many industries though; not many instances where school translates to real world application.

So, where did you learn? Who were your mentors...
Click to expand...

What... you don't think I could have just learned this stuff on my own? Why I gotta have mentors??????

Actually, I was lucky. I came across one of the guys who is farily prominent in the pharmacy management arena... there was a time when he and I were a 2 man show at a small hospital.. probably one of the most efficiently ran pharmacy ever. He and I are good friends.

It would be like me being a DOP at a small hospital and Mikey(WVU) as my staff..and he and I do every thing with rotating weekends. I did that for a year and half...then hooked up with a Pharmacy Management company as a DOP at a medium size hospital... I actually had 4 different DOP jobs.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Ha. School. School prepares you to:
1) Be disappointed with the real world.
2) Be useless when real world challenges happens.
3) Be trapped in a subservient mindset where you are unprepared and uncomfortable in a leadership mindset.

I'm a realist and I'm already directing the support personnel at work as to what to do (take this here...go make this...grab me that....god I love not being in school).....so I guess I'm having no trouble with #s 1 & 3.

The real world stuff is a bitch. For instance, I was monitoring Vanc doses last week. I get a trough of 3 and a peak of 16 on a cellulitis case. I was pretty sure the physician throwing me numbers didn't even look at the correct administration times, nor the correct blood draw times.

So I hike up the stairs from our dungeon on the bottom of the hospital up to the 4th floor to check out the MAR. I dig the thing up and look for times. The first number says "1000"...which was the original generic time that was entered from the 1st dose.......so there is a line through it...ok...fine it's not like they started it when it was run through the computer. Underneath that it reads "2400"...which made no sense...and also has a line through it. Then underneath THAT it reads 1130...which had a scribble through it...and BESIDE that, it reads 1045. So was it started then? Well...the lab people say in the written record that the trough was taken at 1230....but then in the computer record, it was reported as being taken at 1055....and then the peak was taken at 1600. Nobody who was there had any idea what the hell was going on. In addition to this, the PREVIOUS dose was kinda shady, too. I suspected that it was given earlier than they actually charted it. Or not, who the hell knows.

And as I'm sitting there, beating my head against the counter, I'm hearing these nurses in the background yapping about how long they have to wait for the pharmacists to "type numbers into a computer program" and why they "don't just double the dose like usual (wtf?)".


So...given that mess....you don't know when it was given....when the trough was.....if the dose was late and, thus, made the peak artificially low....which in and of itself was messed up....not to mention the fact that I think the trough might have been like 13 hours after the end of a 2 hour infusion of a q12 dose...which is like 4 hours late...I think...I can't subtract, it's too late and I'm sleepy. But..yeah....what, oh trusty druggist, do you recommend?

I think said recommendation involved throwing arbitrary papers into the air, lowering my tie a notch, stumbling back to the pharmacy, and then just decreasing the interval....

I'm pretty sure what happened was that the prescriber saw the mess....wrote the magical words "Vanc adj per pharmacy" on an order...sent it over to us....then RAN LIKE HELL out the door leaving us dazed, confused, and responsible. Actually, no, I think she just didn't get numbers that made sense when she tried to readjust herself and wanted us to look at it....I won't assume malevolence so fast.

But...yeah...god bless the real world....
Click to expand...

you getting smarter Mikey. Without knowing more..I would think the patient probably needs a higher dose too...

How old is the patient, sex, ht, wt, and Cr?
 
ItsOverZyvox said:
What... you don't think I could have just learned this stuff on my own? Why I gotta have mentors??????

Actually, I was lucky. I came across one of the guys who is farily prominent in the pharmacy management arena... there was a time when he and I were a 2 man show at a small hospital.. probably one of the most efficiently ran pharmacy ever. He and I are good friends.

It would be like me being a DOP at a small hospital and Mikey(WVU) as my staff..and he and I do every thing with rotating weekends. I did that for a year and half...then hooked up with a Pharmacy Management company as a DOP at a medium size hospital... I actually had 4 different DOP jobs.
Click to expand...

I ask, so people on here who are making career decisions can learn from someone who did it (does it) right...
 
Caverject said:
what if I wanna learn how to turn EVERYTHING into a bureaucratic process 110 times over than what it needs to be in the hospital and retail setting?
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That's easy. Work for the government. I don't have anything against it, mind you. It's just that with some things, snails and tortoises are faster.
 
medicalcpa said:
That's easy. Work for the government. I don't have anything against it, mind you. It's just that with some things, snails and tortoises are faster.
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Yup...it's true, I have friends who work in the state/federal gov't. And for most employees, either of the following will apply:

1) Public sector work is for smart people who don't want to work that much and will get (virtually) guaranteed job security and the best benefits.

2) Public sector work is for lazy/dumb people who would get fired in a heartbeat in the private sector.

Let me quote my friend's HR website who works for the university: "In the event an employee is dismissed for gross misconduct, the University shall provide written notice and no less than a 14 day notice of termination." Man...show me a private company that gives you a two week notice for gross misconduct and will continue to pay you, and I'll eat my hat.
 
anymore information on the shortage.
 
can a pharmacist be unemployed?

I am the type of red green colour blind person, does that affect my future employability if i graduated from pharmacy course?
 
Great, I could see this bubble bursting years ago... I knew i should have been a PA.......

this just pisses me off....

10 years till were all royally screwed,

unless some sort of drastic change in the job description happens...

now it feels like i HAVE to do a residency (+2 years... great.... not even much better pay.... wooo hoo...)

Not to mention the kiosk style pharmacies in development. Who needs a pharmacist to count pills when you have a robot!

the massive influx into clinical settings will cut the salaries drastically.

once again: 10 years and were royally screwed.


but then again... who really knows...

:thumbdown:/:thumbup:
 
Darqueness said:
Great, I could see this bubble bursting years ago... I knew i should have been a PA.......

this just pisses me off....

10 years till were all royally screwed,

unless some sort of drastic change in the job description happens...

now it feels like i HAVE to do a residency (+2 years... great.... not even much better pay.... wooo hoo...)

Not to mention the kiosk style pharmacies in development. Who needs a pharmacist to count pills when you have a robot!

the massive influx into clinical settings will cut the salaries drastically.

once again: 10 years and were royally screwed.


but then again... who really knows...

:thumbdown:/:thumbup:
Click to expand...

My advice to you is go be a PA, now!!

I take issue with your generalization that we are all screwed. Do you think the following individuals will ever have a problem with job security?:

http://ccr.cancer.gov/staff/staff.asp?profileid=5728

http://www.csmc.edu/12194.html

http://www.stjude.org/stjude/v/inde...nnel=7cc71436e3218010VgnVCM1000000e2015acRCRD

http://www.mdanderson.org/departmen...ayfull&pn=4f3beece-b71c-40a8-9d02837edbbe0048

I have many more examples.

If you are good enough, you will be fine. If not, go be a PA, or something else. If your goal getting into this profession was to hang out at Walgreens and run a drive through, a robot should replace you. If you base everything on pay, once again, move on to something else please.
 
yea, yea, yea, go be a PA or MD, whatever.... too late for me...

and fine... those people arnt screwed... but MOST are, which i suppose is true with any field, it just seems like pharmacists are so expendable its painful.

If a robot replaces "ME" (if i decide to do retail) all those displaced robot pharmacists will replace "YOU" (if you are a non retail person) in one way or another adversely effecting your bottom line. It is not like pharmacy schools will just stop their programs.

>which is why i said i hate that i have to do a residency with little to no payoff, which is very important to any field where you have to invest so many years of rigorous schooling (sorry but i dont like this whole mandatory residency thing sneaking up on me this late in school)


--by the way, it is absolutely ridiculous not to take pay into account.... I don't want to waste 8 years of intensive education/residency just to make the same pay as someone who spent less than half that time in college while getting drunk/high the whole time
 
There'll always be demand for GOOD pharmacists. If anything, this "oh **** the sky is falling" thing with robots and machines will weed out the bottom feeding pharmacists with no real marketable skills aside from RPh licensure.

Your PharmD degree alone won't save you. I mean... 15 years ago, having a bachelor's degree essentially guaranteed you a decent paying job (well, more so than now)... ask any new grad if that's the case, and you'll get laughed at.


and darqueness...i think you have personal insecurity issues that are beyond the scope of this forum.
 
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos079.htm

in the next 5 years there is projected to be a shortage of 53,000 pharmacists. where will they come from??

also, the influence of the big pharmacy companies makes it seem unlikely to me that residency will ever become mandatory for working at retail chains. what would wallgreens and cvs do if suddenly, one year, there were no pharmacy grads available to work for them??
 
Ross434 said:
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos079.htm

what would wallgreens and cvs do if suddenly, one year, there were no pharmacy grads available to work for them??
Click to expand...

go to the government and say "see see!! we need more H1-B visas!!!"

and so next time you call CVS/Wags/etc for that copy, you won't understand jack squat (see language debate in licensure subforum).
 
confettiflyer said:
and darqueness...i think you have personal insecurity issues that are beyond the scope of this forum.
Click to expand...

ouch... :(

its better to be insecure and prepared, than falsely secure and screwed

all I'm saying is lack of demand affects everyone in one way or another
 
Priapism321 said:
My advice to you is go be a PA, now!!

I take issue with your generalization that we are all screwed. Do you think the following individuals will ever have a problem with job security?:

http://ccr.cancer.gov/staff/staff.asp?profileid=5728

http://www.csmc.edu/12194.html

http://www.stjude.org/stjude/v/inde...nnel=7cc71436e3218010VgnVCM1000000e2015acRCRD

http://www.mdanderson.org/departmen...ayfull&pn=4f3beece-b71c-40a8-9d02837edbbe0048

I have many more examples.

If you are good enough, you will be fine. If not, go be a PA, or something else. If your goal getting into this profession was to hang out at Walgreens and run a drive through, a robot should replace you. If you base everything on pay, once again, move on to something else please.
Click to expand...

Here is a couple more

http://www.pharmacy.unc.edu/faculty-research/faculty-directory/mick-murray

http://www.fda.gov/commissionersfellowships/marcarelli_bio.html

http://www.upa-llc.com/pdf/GJV%20BIO%20UPA%200906%20NuBiz.pdf

http://www.infectionacademy.org/faculty/nicolau.asp

http://www.sccm.org/AboutSCCM/Leadership/Executive_Committee/Pages/Treasurer.aspx

How many PA's do you see in the NEJM?
 
And I'm just curious about your opinion; are they leaving for good reasons or bad (from their perspective)?

Good reasons:

We attended pharmacy school when tuition was reasonable, paid off our debts, saved and invested our money when wages increased.

Bad reasons:

We're not in control of our own destiny.
 
medicalcpa said:
From the > 10,000 graduates currently being produced by pharmacy schools every year.
Click to expand...

That answer means absolutely nothing unless you also provide the number of pharmacists leaving the profession each year to show the net result.
 
Hibiclens said:
That answer means absolutely nothing unless you also provide the number of pharmacists leaving the profession each year to show the net result.
Click to expand...

Thats easy. . . go to the state board of pharmacy for most states. Seriously, number of pharmacists leaving the profession each year is almost insignificant.
 
The number you get from the state board is not always representative of the number truly working in your state. In Illinois, there are close to 13,000 active pharmacist licenses, but they estimate only about 10,000 are actively practicing in Illinois.
 
Aznfarmerboi said:
Thats easy. . . go to the state board of pharmacy for most states. Seriously, number of pharmacists leaving the profession each year is almost insignificant.
Click to expand...

It's not easy. That just shows the number of licensed pharmacists, not employed pharmacists. I don't know about you but I plan on keeping my license active for a few years when I retire, as many others. Too many variables to consider.

You brought to the table that the number of pharmacists leaving the profession is insignificant. Can you back that up?
 
Hibiclens said:
It's not easy. That just shows the number of licensed pharmacists, not employed pharmacists. I don't know about you but I plan on keeping my license active for a few years when I retire, as many others. Too many variables to consider.

You brought to the table that the number of pharmacists leaving the profession is insignificant. Can you back that up?
Click to expand...

nope. I cannot back it up. It's hard to back up as people usually dont waste money on surverys/studies for this.

Although I agree with Genesis, I got to say, how many pharmacists do you know that are retiring soon? If anything, I actually met a few coming out of retirement or prolonging their work years before retiring.
 
confettiflyer said:
go to the government and say "see see!! we need more H1-B visas!!!"

and so next time you call CVS/Wags/etc for that copy, you won't understand jack squat (see language debate in licensure subforum).
Click to expand...

So true.:laugh:
 
I think the expected decrease in salary will drive people out of pharmacy profession, which will balance the oversupply in the next few years.
 
Will the shortage last? This question has been asked repeatedly on this forum for the last 5 years and the fact that we are still asking this question, shows there is still a shortage. I will predict 5 years from now, people on this forum will still ask the same question.
 
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