Pharmacist shortage

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My father in law has been a pharmacist for 30 years. He always says there has been a shortage those entire 30 years even while people predicted that it would go away. If you look at pharmacist salaries, have they even increased as fast as inflation? Pharmacists have always been payed "well." I remember a pharmacist post that showed that salaries have not kept up with inflation for the past 20 years or something.

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I think the expected decrease in salary will drive people out of pharmacy profession, which will balance the oversupply in the next few years.

I dont understand how people believe that there is a decrease in salary. This is the dumbest thought that is lurking around. People in the profession aren't just going to willingly take a drop in their paycheck. There will not be a decrease in pay, just because the jobs dry up. Yeah maybe the starting salary will decrease, and what is wrong with that? Is $100,000 + really all that important, can people live comfortably (after just graduating) with $90K or $80K hell even $70k? How many people are going to a school right now FOR UNDERGRAD and are paying 40k in tuition each year only to make 30k when they get out? AND Maybe raises won't come semi-annually, but Pharmacy isn't going to turn into a hunger strike where we all will be lucky to feed ourselves. You all act like Armageddon for pharmacy is on our doorsteps.

I also want to bring up a point about robots. They will not replace pharmacists in the foreseeable future. One, robots even though they count wonderfully most of the time, they do break and go down, they also, like humans, can count correctly all the time. Furthermore, they do not have the ability to distinguish between a drug interaction and a clinically significant drug interaction considering all the variables. So in the end, as long as your career isn't spent slurping down smoothies and eating potato chips at the nearest CVS, and you prove your worth, you don't have anything to worry about

the sky is not falling. but This doom and gloom BS should chase the people who are in it for the wrong reasons out of pharmacy. and thank god.
 
I dont understand how people believe that there is a decrease in salary. This is the dumbest thought that is lurking around. People in the profession aren't just going to willingly take a drop in their paycheck. There will not be a decrease in pay, just because the jobs dry up. Yeah maybe the starting salary will decrease, and what is wrong with that? Is $100,000 + really all that important, can people live comfortably (after just graduating) with $90K or $80K hell even $70k? How many people are going to a school right now FOR UNDERGRAD and are paying 40k in tuition each year only to make 30k when they get out? AND Maybe raises won't come semi-annually, but Pharmacy isn't going to turn into a hunger strike where we all will be lucky to feed ourselves. You all act like Armageddon for pharmacy is on our doorsteps.

I also want to bring up a point about robots. They will not replace pharmacists in the foreseeable future. One, robots even though they count wonderfully most of the time, they do break and go down, they also, like humans, can count correctly all the time. Furthermore, they do not have the ability to distinguish between a drug interaction and a clinically significant drug interaction considering all the variables. So in the end, as long as your career isn't spent slurping down smoothies and eating potato chips at the nearest CVS, and you prove your worth, you don't have anything to worry about

the sky is not falling. but This doom and gloom BS should chase the people who are in it for the wrong reasons out of pharmacy. and thank god.


I think machines/robots are more reliable than you think, but I do agree we'll still need people to run them at least for the foreseeable future. If anything, it allows pharmacists to be more productive. Fill/fix the machine while the thing dispenses 800 scripts. Awesome.

As for the decrease in salary, I think, if anything, it'll stagnate. It's not gonna be the gravy train that it has been. Whenever you have stagnating wages, it's really a decrease due to inflation. So in real terms, you're losing 2-3% a year if your wages aren't keeping pace.

Physician wages/reimbursements have dropped, check out the discussion in the business of medicine subforum for a nice discussion of the "doom and gloom" going on over there. Given the fractionated nature of pharmacists, there is no strong lobby, so if there's a job crunch...good luck, it's every man/woman for him/herself.

With that said, you're right...though I think it's more gloom than doom. Jobs won't be falling out of the sky with huge bonuses anymore. If anything, newly minted pharmacists will actually have to polish up their marketing skills like everyone else. My aunt's hospital back home had to freeze the hiring of nurses due to lower reimbursements, and CA has mandated ratios.

Just because someone has a PharmD doesn't make a employment a "right."

But, hey, maybe we'll finally weed out those retail pharmacists that chat on their phone all day, don't know how to communicate with patients, and treat their technicians like crap. That'd be nice.
 
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They are predicting that a large number of baby boomer pharmacists will retire in the next 10 years or so. The major variable in number of pharmacists working is the number of part-timers. That number has been creeping up. The last time I saw it, it was approaching 20%. Pharmacy has become a female dominated profession, and they are one of the reasons why that number has increased greatly. There are also a large number of semi-retired pharmacists in their 50s/60s.
 
it's actually 102...california gonna have 10 by 2010...so that'll make it 105 by 2010..
 
POWER is going to lead to the decline of pharmacist demand....NO TO POWER....floaters will be fine, they get the hours that no one wants so they will be fine...have you noticed the drop in stocks of walgreens, POWER was a program designed to save Wags money, outsourcing!!..a central location to direct numerous pharmacies to one location and save money....this is there real agenda:smuggrin:phase 1..call centers with techs who are incompetent..phase 2....get rid of half of the pharm techs....and phase 3....get rid of pharmacists...:thumbdown:thumbdown
If you are a pharm student beware of POWER it will cause the loss of many jobs, all these companies do not care about people, they do not care of the 100k+ loans or the amt of school, they only care about the numbers, they think of pharmacists as numbers, they do not care for us....with the decline of the economy and their stock the future is not as bright:(:(
 
They are predicting that a large number of baby boomer pharmacists will retire in the next 10 years or so. The major variable in number of pharmacists working is the number of part-timers. That number has been creeping up. The last time I saw it, it was approaching 20%. Pharmacy has become a female dominated profession, and they are one of the reasons why that number has increased greatly. There are also a large number of semi-retired pharmacists in their 50s/60s.

and thats a valid point. I know our class is predominently female and i are sure there are a good portion that are part time, and who can blame them. Hell part time pharmacy still brings in more then most full time gigs.

places are still understaffed, i think that there is still a demand...

confetti,
i think you are right that its a lot of gloom and honestly there are people who jump on it because of the money. If i was an interviewer that would be one question I would ask, about the money. How much does the money you make matter compared to various other aspects. I am sure that there would be a lot of BS answers.

what it is interesting to me though is to hear how many students ask their preceptors about their salary. What kind of question is that? Who would ask that? but that topic is a sore spot for me.

and if the job remains stagnant, or if thats the direction its going, students and young pharmacists better decide what the hell they are going to be doing and not jumping ship and trying another job in the field. T

there was an article in the Wall Street Journal a few weeks ago about this generation of people about being the "trophy kids", kids who have been raised to think that they are a unique snowflake and that they deserve special treatment and it goes on to talk about how that applies to the job market setting. This generation (my generation) thinks that jobs fall out of the sky and That the relationship between an employer and an employee is considered as what can the employer do for me NOW. There is no mutualism, no what can we do for each other and there is no sense about what will happen if i stay with the company for 5, 10, 15 years. and thats why they flop job to job. Everyone out of school either wants to be the head clinical pharmacist, DOP or DM of whatever. No one is willing to take that time, the old fashioned way

but thats another battle
 
It's a two way street with respect to the "what can the employer do for me now." I think employees are simply reacting to employers' general treatment of employees in the last decade or so. It's a shift from taking care of your employees to taking care of the shareholders, which may or may not fall in line with retention of employees. Case in point, it's cheaper to hire a bunch of new grads for IT jobs vs. keeping one or two older ones. Plus, how many companies do you know that have pension plans?

Besides, I want a 401k match and I want to vest on day 1 so I'm not dependent on you in case you go bankrupt.

As for the trophy generation (my generation as well)...ugh, do you know how annoyed I get when I hear things like, "well, i have a bachelor's degree...people will want to hire me." Not with an attitude like that!

You have to remember though, we like to think we're "the ****" compared to older folks. We can multitask better, we have a better grasp of changing technologies, and chances are if you're in college, you HAD to have been president/head/leader of some sort. It seems like any old bloke could have walked onto a college campus 40 years ago.

Of course, not all of this is necessarily true/applicable, but it's the general idea floating around. I remember business week had a great feature on younger workers entering the work force and why employers need to adapt to stay relevant/competitive.

It's true, we're self-absorbed and fickle, but we're damn hard workers and we know it. We're more focused on things like work-life balance and "self-fulfillment" vs. money (you wouldn't know that reading pre-pharm). We just, as a generation, need a massive IV of humble pie.

...then again, didn't brokaw called his generation "the greatest generation?" (then again, they defeated the nazis, we invented facebook).

EDIT: here's an article i think i was talking about
http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/jun2007/pi20070624_294649.htm

it was probably part of the whole issue i was referring to
 
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Rust Belt, baby. I still could have my choice of a bazillion jobs if I so desired.

You want job security? Move to Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Syracuse.....etc. They are all victims of the deindustrialization of the US and the need for professionals to take care of those "stuck" is huge. Disproportionate amounts of old people like crazy....and in healthcare, old people are the biggest consumers of healthcare services.

Want even more job security? Move an hour or so outside of one of the above towns. I'm working at a ruralish hospital that's about an hour away from Pittsburgh and they are so in need of help that I don't think they would fire me if I got caught out in the loading dock with a pickup truck trying to steal a CT scanner.

There isn't a shortage in Michigan. Despite the fact that no one wants to practice here, the market is just getting saturated. I understand people are getting left out of the system but that just means they can't afford healthcare and prescriptions.
 
yeah.. what about forthcoming national healthcare plans??? If we have 50 million more people getting prescriptions, that stands to increase volume in the pharmacy profession.
 
yeah.. what about forthcoming national healthcare plans??? If we have 50 million more people getting prescriptions, that stands to increase volume in the pharmacy profession.

This is our only hope. Hopefully the democrats will come in and fix the disaster that is medicare part D.
 
Better go out and buy that Rosetta Stone Spanish edition and get cracking.
 
Better go out and buy that Rosetta Stone Spanish edition and get cracking.

man you don't need rosetta stone...here, i'll give you all the spanish phrases you'll ever need

1) quince minutos en la otra ventana
"fifteen minutes at the other window"

2) tiene seguro? la tarjeta, por favor.
"do you have insurance? the card, please."

3) necesitamos llamar a su doctor
"we need to call your doctor."

4) escriba su direccion y su numero de telefono, por favor
"please write your address and phone number"

5) cual es su fecha de nacimiento?
"what is your date of birth?"


yeah i wrote half that wrong...but that will get you through 85% of the spanish you need on the retail level.
 
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man you don't need rosetta stone...here, i'll give you all the spanish phrases you'll ever need

1) quince minutos en la otra ventana
"fifteen minutes at the other window"

2) tienes insuraganca? la tarjeta, por favor.
"do you have insurance? the card, please."

3) necesita llamar a su doctor
"we need to call your doctor."

4) escribe su calle y su numero de telefono, por favor
"please write your address and phone number"

5) cual es la fecha de nacimiento?
"what is your date of birth?"

yeah i wrote half that wrong...but that will get you through 85% of the spanish you need on the retail level.

They smile and nod regardless of what words come out of my mouth.
 
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned how the economy has affected the job market for pharmacist. Many of the baby boomers that are suppose to retire now have to work an extra decade since their 401k's went down the drain. Also, these baby boomers are sending their kids to college now and have to take on a second job just to pay the bills since the government doesn't help the middle class.

The hospital I'm currently working at has put in a hiring freeze and many retail chains are doing the same or outsourcing with relief work. Chains and hospitals, love to use relief work since they don't have to pay for drive time, matching of 401k's or benefits. I see relief work someday changing into a pharmacy temp work where you get your base salary and nothing else. Relief work will be the new stepping stone to get a permanent job.
 
Check out Time's The 150 Best Recession-Proof Jobs:

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1858773,00.html?xid=rss-business

Pharmacists ranked 9th. In terms of salary, pharmacists ranked 3rd in the first 100 (only after physicians & surgeons and air traffic controllers). I know it is getting tough out there but we are still better off than most professions. Lets cross our fingers and be grateful.
 
Check out Time's The 150 Best Recession-Proof Jobs:

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1858773,00.html?xid=rss-business

Pharmacists ranked 9th. In terms of salary, pharmacists ranked 3rd in the first 100 (only after physicians & surgeons and air traffic controllers). I know it is getting tough out there but we are still better off than most professions. Lets cross our fingers and be grateful.

That's very interesting. That'll come in handy when people ask me if I'll be replaced by dispensing machines :rolleyes:
 
There isn't a shortage in Michigan. Despite the fact that no one wants to practice here, the market is just getting saturated. I understand people are getting left out of the system but that just means they can't afford healthcare and prescriptions.

With all due respect, you're still in school, so perhaps you don't know what the job market is truly like in the metro-Detroit area. I graduated recently and from what I've seen, there are still lots of job opportunities available.
 
Metro-Detroit area has a lot of problems. It is losing serious amounts of population, and that in turn, will impact number of prescriptions being filled.
 
Metro-Detroit area has a lot of problems. It is losing serious amounts of population, and that in turn, will impact number of prescriptions being filled.

Yeah there are some portions of detroit that just need to be bulldozed over....it's become the chernobyl of the US. I wonder how this whole auto industry bailout thing will pan out.
 
qwead you are right

how do people not see this? Currently in south florida where the the "power" system is used, there is a hiring freeze on a all the retail chains and hospitals. walgreens has cut 10% of their pharmacists based on seniority. you cannot get a job in south florida. the market is too saturated. the power system was trial in florida and its successful, the next state is cali.
 
With all due respect, you're still in school, so perhaps you don't know what the job market is truly like in the metro-Detroit area. I graduated recently and from what I've seen, there are still lots of job opportunities available.

Detroit, metro or otherwise...is "virtually" saturated. Sure, you will find positions here and there, and there is always turnover, but supply/demand in Detroit are pretty even.

And not only is it people moving, but also consider that the pool of those covered by health insurance is rapidly decreasing. Employers are consistently increasing out of pocket costs for employees, if not suspending coverage altogether in the case of GM retirees.
 
Link is dead.

Hmm works for me.

Community Pharmacist Shortage: Fact or Fiction?
Sam Mahrous, PhD, MBA, CIS, and Dorothy Maziarz, PharmD

What is being done to address current and projected shortages of community pharmacists?

Dr. Mahrous is an associate professor at the Midwestern University College of Pharmacy-Glendale (MWU-CPG) and Arizona College of Medicine. Dr. Maziarz is a PharmD graduate of MWU-CPG.

Much attention in recent years has been focused on current and projected shortages of community pharmacists in the United States. Fluctuating statistics and predictions highlight the need for a comprehensive picture of what is and will be happening in the changing pharmacy workforce. This is particularly important since pharmacists represent one of the largest health professional groups in the nation, and most are employed in a community setting.1
Is There a Shortage?

Three primary sources are used to provide an understanding of the status of the pharmacist workforce. These include the Pharmacy Manpower Project (PMP), the Aggregate Demand Index (ADI), and the National Association of Chain Drug Stores (NACDS).

The PMP is a nonprofit corporation established approximately 15 years ago to gather, analyze, and distribute data on the supply of pharmacists and the demand for pharmacy services in the United States.2 In 2001, the PMP assembled 24 pharmacy experts for a 3-day conference to project the need for pharmacy services over the next 2 decades.3 The conference participants concluded that by the year 2020 the supply of pharmacists is likely to fall short of the need by about 157,000.3 According to the participants, many factors have helped contribute to the pharmacist shortage, including the expanding role of the pharmacist, an increase in the number of prescriptions dispensed, an aging population, higher educational standards for pharmacists, attractive careers in areas other than pharmacy, and a movement toward managed care.3

A second indicator of the pharmacist shortage is the ADI, a tool supported by the PMP that is used to determine the difficulty of filling open pharmacist positions throughout the United States. Simply stated, it is a numerical tracker of current and past demand for pharmacists. The ADI is calculated based on monthly data collected from employers of pharmacists and is reported on a scale of 1 (high surplus) to 5 (high demand). As of July 2006, the ADI for national pharmacist demand is 4.16 (indicating moderate demand), with a value of 3.83 for demand in the community setting.4 Both of these values have increased steadily since July 2005, supporting the claim that the shortage of pharmacists has been worsening.4

Finally, a description of the pharmacist workforce is provided in the NACDS Foundation's July 2005 Chain Pharmacy Employment Survey. Data from this survey indicate that there were approximately 5000 full-time and 1000 part-time chain pharmacist position vacancies nationally.2 Using a scale of 1 (large shortage) to 5 (large oversupply), the survey indicated that the national index was 2.05, demonstrating some shortage of community pharmacists.2

It is clear from these 3 leading indicators that there is a current shortage of community pharmacists and that it will most likely worsen in the next several years.
What Are the Contributing Factors?

One apparent reason for the worsening community pharmacist shortage is the large increase in retail prescriptions dispensed annually. For example, the number of prescriptions dispensed each year has grown by 60% in the last 10 years, a rate that greatly outpaces the increase in pharmacist supply.5 According to the Pharmacist Workforce survey, factors contributing to the rise in prescription volume include growth of the economy, development of new drugs, direct-to-consumer marketing, and an increasing number of refills.1

It is reasonable to assume that the burden of more prescriptions dispensed per pharmacist may contribute to medication errors, longer working hours, and decreased quality of life for pharmacists, while at the same time lessening the number of opportunities for pharmacists to interact with patients and perform managed care activities. This was confirmed by the survey, where pharmacists reported that they are not offering the full services they are qualified to provide because of work burden and time constraints.1

Accompanying this upsurge in prescriptions is an inherent increase in the time pharmacists must commit to thirdparty payment and administrative tasks related to high-volume sales. Oftentimes, these clerical functions can occupy between 10% and 20% of the pharmacist's time, making it difficult to maintain a consistent workflow in the midst of this high prescription volume.6 Some sources maintain that allowing for more technicians and supportive staff members per pharmacist might help alleviate part of the clerical burden for pharmacists. This proposition is difficult to implement, however, due to the number of state and/or employer regulations limiting the ratio of technicians to pharmacists.

Another factor is an evident shortage in the supply of pharmacists available to work in the community setting. Shifts in the demographics between the leaving and entering pharmacist workforce are also of particular importance. One of the most significant differences between past and recent pharmacists in the workforce is the gender shift, or increase in the number of female pharmacists, many of whom opt for part-time positions. According to the NACDS employment survey, 53% of full-time chain drug store pharmacists are men, and 47% are women.2 It is suggested that older men will be lost from the pharmacist workforce due to death or retirement, while younger women entering the profession will tend to choose part-time work.1

The NACDS employment survey supports this premise, estimating that 58% of part-time pharmacists are women, and only 42% are men.2 These findings indicate that once women represent 50% of the workforce, the average number of hours worked per week will drop by 5%, which must be accounted for in judging the workforce shortages.1

The shrinking supply of pharmacists is also partly due to a decreasing number of graduates from schools of pharmacy in the last decade.1 In addition, international pharmacy graduates are currently presented with significant barriers to achieving licensure, thereby hindering one potentially beneficial response to the pharmacist shortage. The opening of 20 new pharmacy schools over the last 5 years should help to increase the number of graduating pharmacists to almost 10,000 in 2007, representing an increase of about 2000 graduates from 2003 and 2004 levels.7 This change will impact long-term shortages in the supply of community pharmacists only modestly, however.
What Are the Implications?

One of the most troubling questions of the worsening pharmacist shortage is whether or not the increased workload will allow pharmacists to continue to perform adequate quality control checks and provide appropriate patient care. Some pharmacy experts predict that the community pharmacist shortages may result in decreased patient safety and fewer opportunities for patient care as a result of understaffed work shifts and an increase in individual workers' duration and volume of work.

These issues could also promote more medication dispensing errors. Constraining community pharmacists to the role of dispensing high-volume prescriptions represents a step backwards for the pharmacy profession, hindering its advancement as a legitimate and significant contributor of patient care and comprehensive services.

Without overlooking the innate challenges that pharmacists will be faced with in the next few years as a result of the pharmacist shortage, it is important to recognize that there have been several positive outcomes of these difficult circumstances. In an attempt to increase the utility of available pharmacists, significant advancements have been made in information technologies, automation, robotics, electronic prescribing, and an increase in the hiring of support personnel.3 Pharmacist salaries also have been modestly increasing, with pharmacists in the community setting still earning a higher annual income than pharmacists employed in the hospital setting.8 These measures possibly will help yield short-term results, but better methods for improving long-term outcomes are needed.
Conclusion

Current leading indicators show that there is unmistakably a present and worsening shortage of pharmacists in the community setting. Despite attempts to resolve the many factors contributing to these shortages, there is no evident long-term resolution. Inevitably, the many roles of pharmacists and needs of patients will continue to expand. In order to provide the best possible services for their patrons despite personnel shortages, community pharmacists must strive to continue their tradition of providing patients with quality care while meeting the latest challenges in health care.
References

1. Health Resources and Services Administration. The Pharmacist Workforce: A Study of the Supply and Demand for Pharmacists. Washington, DC: US Department of Health & Human Services; 2000.
2. NACDS Foundation July 2005 Chain Pharmacy Employment Survey Results. www.nacds.org. Accessed June 2006.
3. Professionally Determined Need for Pharmacy Services in 2020. A report of a conference sponsored by the Pharmacy Manpower Project Inc. www.aacp.org. Accessed June 2006.
4. Aggregate Demand Index. Western University of Health Sciences. www.pharmacymanpower.com. Accessed June 2006.
5. Pharmacy Choice Web site. www.pharmacychoice.com/careers. Accessed June 2006.
6. Landis NT. Non-patient-care activities dilute pharmacists' time, NACDS study shows. Am J Health Sys Pharm. 2000;57:202.
7. Pharmacist Shortage Worsens Nationwide. ABC News: Health. November 7, 2005. abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=1290319. Accessed August 2006.
8. Pharmacy Week Web site. www.pharmacyweek.com. Accessed August 2006.
 
The study is outdated as it based their article strictly on statistics from 05, 06 as pointed out in references. The market is totally different than it was a few years ago.

I really dont see much debate as the facts are there. Sign on bonuses of 10-15k are no longer seen. People float much more. Hours are being cut, and pharmacists are being laid off.

Sure there is still a shortage in markets where nobody wants to live but for major metropolitan areas, I havent seen a pharmacist here that would say otherwise. The pharmacists who says that there is no saturation are saying that demand however has been met and the need is not as much.

Lets say that demand versus supply has been met. What about the new schools still opening up? All I can say to the class of 2011 and 2012 and beyond, be careful on your school debt.
 
I had said some time ago retail shortage will end around 2012. Well, I was wrong... there is really not a shortage.

Yeah yeah there are weekend jobs, graveyard, float positions, PRNs, rural areas etc... Not being able to fill those positions doesn't mean there is a shortage. Shortage is when you can't fill prime positions.

The last time I faced a pharmacist shortage was in semi-rural hospital in Northern California. That was 2003.
 
We don't need all of the new scam pharmD diploma mills feeding off naive kids willing to take 150k in student loans. Pharmacy salaries will go down. All of these kids coming out of the new schools in the next couple of years will have huge student loan payments, and they will be willing to take any amount of pay compared to no pay. Retail will start hiring new grads at lower wages because they'll make more profit. I could see pharmacist salaries dropping down to 70k or less, it is better than 0 when you are 150k in debt. The multiple new schools will destroy this profession and turn the PharmD into the next MBA, JD.
 
they seriously need to stop opening up pharmacy schools...

only thing it does is digging us a grave, at least it provides more jobs in academia
 
I don't know how reliable these article are.

These could be propaganda to increase the number of graduates in order to increase the supply and decrease the salary.
This might be similar to nursing. There is no nursing shortage. There are shortage of nurses willing to work in deteriorating working condition. There are plethora of nursing schools, but currently they are still advertising about nursing shortage. Hospital reports nursing shortage so that they can get visas for foreign nurses and hire new grads at cheaper cost.

Similarly, chains/hospitals may want more H1-B for foreign pharmacists and cheap new grads. :)
 
I would work full time for 65k a year when I graduate. Pharmacy school is going to cost me 120K, I will have to pay $1500 a month in student loan payments. I will be willing to take anything I can get.

There is a new pharmacy school opening in Georgia next year at the PCOM campus. There will now be 3 pharmacy schools in the Atlanta area within 50 miles of each other. There will be around 450 graduates every year within 50 miles. The market is going to be so saturated, and wages are going to drop. We need to stop all of the money hungry new schools, the PharmD is the next MBA or JD, get yours online in three years with a ****ty pcat score and no pharmacy experience, just be willing to take huge student loans so the school can make millions per class.
 
I would work full time for 65k a year when I graduate. Pharmacy school is going to cost me 120K, I will have to pay $1500 a month in student loan payments. I will be willing to take anything I can get.

There is a new pharmacy school opening in Georgia next year at the PCOM campus. There will now be 3 pharmacy schools in the Atlanta area within 50 miles of each other. There will be around 450 graduates every year within 50 miles. The market is going to be so saturated, and wages are going to drop. We need to stop all of the money hungry new schools, the PharmD is the next MBA or JD, get yours online in three years with a ****ty pcat score and no pharmacy experience, just be willing to take huge student loans so the school can make millions per class.

Thats the problem. You wont be getting paid 65k when you come out. You wont even have a job. Look at JDs for an example. Big Law still pays starting graduates good money for those who are lucky. Those who aren't are unemployed.
 
There are a lot of interim positions (lots of female pharmacists who get pregnant and take several months to years off), so you can theoretically jump around for a bit till someone retires or a new hospital/retail store/etc pops up. If you did very well as an interim, then you will get very strong recommendations and out-compete those who just came out of pharmacy school due to experience. It may be saturated later, but unless your a lazy bum, antisocial, and/or stink at what you do, the situation should be okay/manageable (not great) for atleast a few years (I wouldn't look at this years data because of economic situation which hopefully will be solved in a few years otherwise it isn't just pharmacists that are screwed... almost everyone is screwed). Also pharmacy students should try and make connections while in school with multiple DOP's/managers/etc so that if a position is open and they know you and like you then you automically have a leg up after you graduate.

Recent Article (NOV 12 2008) saying pharmacists are still in demand. LOL BMW.. is this true? This thread is confusing the f*** out of me

http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/1291133.html
 
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Recent Article (NOV 12 2008) saying pharmacists are still in demand. LOL BMW.. is this true? This thread is confusing the f*** out of me

http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/1291133.html


Sound like a propaganda to me. And California Northstate College of Pharmacy is trying to advertise its school attracting new students. Yep.. There are thousand of students who applied but they did not mention about the student who got into other school and gave up the spots.

Of course, every school of pharmacy and nursing school would want to talk about shortage to make the applicants/students feel good about the field. 106 schools are capable of producing >10,000 new grads per year. And as mentioned before, companies would love to report shortage because it would be easier for them to fill the spot without financial incentive (eg. sign-on bonus & increasing starting salary etc)

The purpose of sign-on bonus may be used to reduce turn-over rate due to poor working condition and retain employee. It is costly to keep hiring new employee.

I think I should keep nursing experience and license active. If pharmacy field is saturated, I'm going back for NP school. maybe..:p And I'm not buying a house so I can be ready to relocate..:)

I don't think the salary would be decreased to 65k. It just won't increase much.. I don't think any of us with lots of debt from student loan would want that amount of pay-cut.. At least right now, visa for foreign nurses are in backlog but pharmacists are still qualified for H1-B.

They uses the number of applicants to pharmacy school and high starting salary/bonus to claim the shortage. I want to know the actual statistics.

And for the above article about shortage in retain pharmacy.. Retail pharmacy is comparable to bedside/med-surg floor nursing job in nursing. There are relatively plentiful and most people may try to avoid due to working condition. It's where shortage will disappear last.
 
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Sound like a propaganda to me. And California Northstate College of Pharmacy is trying to advertise its school. Yep.. There are thousand of students who applied but they did not mention about the student who got into other school and gave up the spots.

Of course, every school of pharmacy and nursing school would want to talk about shortage to make the applicants/students feel good about the field. 106 schools are capable of producing >10,000 new grads per year. And as mentioned before, companies would love to report shortage because it would be easier for them to fill the spot without financial incentive (eg. sign-on bonus & increasing starting salary etc)

The purpose of sign-on bonus may be used to reduce turn-over rate due to poor working condition and retain employee. It is costly to keep hiring new employee.

I think I should keep nursing experience and license active. If pharmacy field is saturated, I'm going back for NP school. maybe..:p And I'm not buying a house so I can be ready to relocate..:)

I don't think the salary would be decreased to 65k. It just won't increase much.. I don't think any of us with lots of debt from student loan would want that amount of pay-cut..

They uses the number of applicants to pharmacy school and high starting salary/bonus to claim the shortage. I want to know the actual statistics.

Well if there is no current demand for pharmacist than why all the sign on bonuses? If I graduate and have no sign on bonus than I would fine with that, but seems strange for a non rural market of Sacramento to have students report companies offering BMWs, 20K sign on bonus, etc if there are no demands. Unless they would pay that UNC student to lie about the current situation even though right now she is having trouble finding a position (which seems just about as farfetched like some people on the street who believe in some crazy conspiracy, so really have no clue what to believe). I'm thinking it is somewhere in the middle... it isn't like there are thousands of openings, but maybe a few here and there and they are still desperate enough to offer bonuses for good pharamcists (like 100-300 or so in all of Cali). That might change in the future, but if there is no competition and people are fighting to get hired than it makes no sense for any company in a buisness standpoint to have a sign on bonus.
 
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That might change in the future, but if there is no competition and people are fighting to get hired than it makes no sense for any company in a buisness standpoint to have a sign on bonus.

The purpose of sign-on bonus may be used to reduce turn-over rate and retain employee. It could be that people keep quitting.
It is cheaper to pay for sign-on bonus and keep you for a few years rather than keep hiring and training new employee. Usually, the poorer the working condition, the bigger the sign-on bonus.
 
The purpose of sign-on bonus may be used to reduce turn-over rate and retain employee. It could be that people keep quitting.
It is cheaper to pay for sign-on bonus and keep you for a few years rather than keep hiring and training new employee. Usually, the poorer the working condition, the bigger the sign-on bonus.

what student with massive loans is going to quit their job? especially if there are no other openings available because the market is saturated. I could understand for an experienced pharmacist, but they were talking to someone who just graduated from pharmacy school. If I had 80k-250k loans to pay off and I fought with 5 other pharmacists for the same position due to saturation, I would care less about the working conditions as I have no where else to go... i would gladly take the job without sign on bonus if that was the case. I'm not trying to argue that there is no shortage, but trying to understand the situation.

Here is another article... department of labor saying pharmacists are in need second to RNs.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/103/story/584997.html
 
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what student with massive loans is going to quit their job? especially if there are no other openings available because the market is saturated. ... i would gladly take the job without sign on bonus if that was the case.

YiYaoYue,... You could still quit after getting experience (maybe a year). And the purpose of the sign-on bonus is the prevent you from quitting after getting your feet wet..
 
Jesus, Mary and Joseph. Will people just calm down a little bit, please. This is a rough economy right now, there is concern in any field out there. I think just about every college student that is going to be graduating in the near future is concerned about what job prospects are going to be at that time. But come on, there are still many many positives in pharmacy that make it a really top notch field to be getting in to. I'm not claiming to be an expert by any means, but this is just what I've gathered by talking to faculty and pharmacists I work with.
 
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That's because not the entire Midwest is in the Rust Belt. I'm talking this area:

rustbelt.jpg


I'm pretty sure that area has a low concentration of arab/indian people, so that wouldn't be good because there would be no hookah bars in the area.

However...a plan could be to open up a pharmacy and have a hookah bar right next door.
 
You can actually get a pretty nice deal from Walgreens if you are willing to move to Milwaukee.
According to one of the DMs, they have over 25 store openings in Milwaukee Metro.
 
I'm pretty sure that area has a low concentration of arab/indian people, so that wouldn't be good because there would be no hookah bars in the area.

However...a plan could be to open up a pharmacy and have a hookah bar right next door.

Hell, we got one of those in downtown Morgantown. I'm sure you can find one in the larger towns like Pittsburgh and Cleveland. And no Arabic folk? Uh...Dearborn?
 
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