Pharmacy Fellowship/Entry level Industry Positions

[John T]

Hello everyone!
I am currently interviewing for multiple fellowship programs specifically for medical affairs but unfortunately have no luck so far. Mind everyone that I did work in the industry before for 3-4 years (manufacturing) and worked during pharmacy school as well (closed door pharmacy, CVS, inpatient hospital). So I am still confused on what they are looking for. And yes I did do my research of the company and the job description as well. I am still waiting on a few programs but the probability of advancing is quite slim unfortunately and just sucks no matter how hard you work and prepare, it doesn't correlate to positive results.

With that being said, does anyone know what are other ways to get into industry? I hear some people do PGY1 and 2 to gain experience and apply directly and others said they applied for entry level positions. Does anyone know what are some entry level positions? What are some ways to get into industry? I am specifically interested in the MSL role in the future. Thank you everyone for your help and any input would be appreciated! 🤞

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[letsquitpharm]

MSL roles are insanely competitive as entry level positions. Most fellows would still struggle a bit getting their first jobs.

Once upon a time, I also considered a post pharmacy career as a MSL, but after talking to some fellows and reaching out to visiting MSLs giving us guest lectures, I came to a conclusion that it's just not for me. Despite all the glamor and hype, many fellows I spoke to didn't seem to add much value in an organization and had a hard time detailing what they can offer on quantifiable terms. It's all connections with KOLs and "people's" skill I guess, and that's not something students can develop over a short period of time.

I went directly for entry level jobs, but my path is quite unconventional. If you are in highly technical field, I would suggest entry-level jobs over fellowship. Otherwise maybe start working and do a masters or apply to residencies and then make the transition.

 

[John T]

MSL roles are insanely competitive as entry level positions. Most fellows would still struggle a bit getting their first jobs.

Once upon a time, I also considered a post pharmacy career as a MSL, but after talking to some fellows and reaching out to visiting MSLs giving us guest lectures, I came to a conclusion that it's just not for me. Despite all the glamor and hype, many fellows I spoke to didn't seem to add much value in an organization and had a hard time detailing what they can offer on quantifiable terms. It's all connections with KOLs and "people's" skill I guess, and that's not something students can develop over a short period of time.

I went directly for entry level jobs, but my path is quite unconventional. If you are in highly technical field, I would suggest entry-level jobs over fellowship. Otherwise maybe start working and do a masters or apply to residencies and then make the transition.

Thank you for your insight regarding the MSL role. Could you kindly share your experiences/path? And what are some entry level positions you suggest? And yeah I am considering residency for that clinical experience.

 

[letsquitpharm]

Thank you for your insight regarding the MSL role. Could you kindly share your experiences/path? And what are some entry level positions you suggest? And yeah I am considering residency for that clinical experience.

I am working for a large pharma company in the area of pharmacometrics and also working remotely for a cs master's degree. This is a rare path for PharmDs to take, but it's doable. My department also takes PharmD fellows, but I am getting paid much more and have broader opportunities and experience working cross-functionally and across different therapeutic areas thus far.

Some of my friends went to work for CROs, mostly on med affairs or safety side. A few became CRAs, medical writers and regulatory specialists. There are quite a lot of entry-level FT or contract jobs in pharma, as long as you are in a hub, like Northeast, Cali, Research Triangle Park. But do you feel comfortable tossing almost everything you learned in pharmacy school & direct patient care experience out of the window and choose one area to start from scratch and specialize?

MSL career after PGY-2 and clinical pharmacy is also possible. One of my former clinical professors quit academia and works for Eli Lilly now I think as lead MSL in diabetes. Their connections with KOLs in academia and PI clinicians are highly valuable to pharma companies.

 

[TranslationalRPh]

I did graduate school but that was competitive as well. It did help because the hiring manager at the CRO who gave me my first shot had similar graduate school background, so he had a strong bias towards hiring people with that background. That said, he also hired several experienced PharmDs without graduate school. I focused on medical writing/clinical science type jobs but that was mainly because my thesis advisor had a strong bias against his students becoming MSLs but was sensitive to the fact that I was interested in translational science. These often are not entry level jobs, but sometimes you can find internships or are the right person at the right time to take advantage of an entry position.

 

[John T]

I am working for a large pharma company in the area of pharmacometrics and also working remotely for a cs master's degree. This is a rare path for PharmDs to take, but it's doable. My department also takes PharmD fellows, but I am getting paid much more and have broader opportunities and experience working cross-functionally and across different therapeutic areas thus far.

Some of my friends went to work for CROs, mostly on med affairs or safety side. A few became CRAs, medical writers and regulatory specialists. There are quite a lot of entry-level FT or contract jobs in pharma, as long as you are in a hub, like Northeast, Cali, Research Triangle Park. But do you feel comfortable tossing almost everything you learned in pharmacy school & direct patient care experience out of the window and choose one area to start from scratch and specialize?

MSL career after PGY-2 and clinical pharmacy is also possible. One of my former clinical professors quit academia and works for Eli Lilly now I think as lead MSL in diabetes. Their connections with KOLs in academia and PI clinicians are highly valuable to pharma companies.

Thank you for your reply. Yes I do feel comfortable tossing everything from pharmacy school. I have a strong interest in medical affairs but specifically MSL. I had multiple interviews to fellowships but it appears that it is extremely competitive and did not get lucky. I previously worked in industry in manufacturing at 2 pharma companies before pharmacy school. I worked at multiple pharmacies during pharmacy school and currently working inpatient and will be working at Kaiser mail order. So I was bit dumbfounded not able to get considered further. It appears that fellowships in medical affairs is extremely competitive.

Is there a major pay cut with these entry level positions? I am currently heading towards plan b in applying for pgy1 residency to allow me to have a chance for MSL.

 

[John T]

I did graduate school but that was competitive as well. It did help because the hiring manager at the CRO who gave me my first shot had similar graduate school background, so he had a strong bias towards hiring people with that background. That said, he also hired several experienced PharmDs without graduate school. I focused on medical writing/clinical science type jobs but that was mainly because my thesis advisor had a strong bias against his students becoming MSLs but was sensitive to the fact that I was interested in translational science. These often are not entry level jobs, but sometimes you can find internships or are the right person at the right time to take advantage of an entry position.

Thank you for your input. I had several interviews for fellowship programs specifically medical affairs but it is so competitive. I have industry experience working before pharmacy school and have multiple intern experiences during pharmacy school rn so just confused on what they are looking for. I developed many skills observed in a medical affairs fellow and was able to express that in my interviews. But just so unlucky... I just think its who you know in the program. With that being said, I plan on moving to plan b and gaining clinical experience and using that to apply to industry. Is there a big pay cut for CRO positions? Any key words or job postings I should look out for as a pharm D new grad so I can actively look just in case residency doesn't work?

 

[TranslationalRPh]

Thank you for your input. I had several interviews for fellowship programs specifically medical affairs but it is so competitive. I have industry experience working before pharmacy school and have multiple intern experiences during pharmacy school rn so just confused on what they are looking for. I developed many skills observed in a medical affairs fellow and was able to express that in my interviews. But just so unlucky... I just think its who you know in the program. With that being said, I plan on moving to plan b and gaining clinical experience and using that to apply to industry. Is there a big pay cut for CRO positions? Any key words or job postings I should look out for as a pharm D new grad so I can actively look just in case residency doesn't work?

Yes, there can be a significant pay cut with CRO. It's temporary though. You're there for a the experience not the paycheck.

 

[letsquitpharm]

Thank you for your reply. Yes I do feel comfortable tossing everything from pharmacy school. I have a strong interest in medical affairs but specifically MSL. I had multiple interviews to fellowships but it appears that it is extremely competitive and did not get lucky. I previously worked in industry in manufacturing at 2 pharma companies before pharmacy school. I worked at multiple pharmacies during pharmacy school and currently working inpatient and will be working at Kaiser mail order. So I was bit dumbfounded not able to get considered further. It appears that fellowships in medical affairs is extremely competitive.

Is there a major pay cut with these entry level positions? I am currently heading towards plan b in applying for pgy1 residency to allow me to have a chance for MSL.

I am actually not getting a pay cut, more or less comparable to a typical new grad pharmacist pay. I get to wfh since last year so no complaints.

 

[Hels2007]

I have industry experience working before pharmacy school and have multiple intern experiences during pharmacy school rn so just confused on what they are looking for.

That industry work experience is probably what's working against you. Thinking goes, if you were any good at your job, you would be able to leverage your connections from your past job to get a paying job. If you are going for a fellowship, you must not have been that good. Fellowship is supposed to be a 'foot in the door' as much as it is a training program, and you have already been through that door.

I would focus on trying to land a job. Agencies are easier than going straight inhouse, and a residency is an option if you want a more clinically oriented role... Since my entire career has been on the commercial side, I can't really comment on the CROs, etc.