Pharmacy Job Market/Outlook

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Well, you could come over to UK. Hospital pharmacy still listed a having shortage of pharmacists. Mindyou, salaries half those in US, and houses double the price. So no boats, cars for every member of the family, private planes etc that we in Europe are led to believe every american has.

Watched a 'faction' film last night on domestic violence. Despite husband being out of work, lived in large house and had two cars.

Wonderful how hollywood rarely shows the large trailer parks where a huge percentage of ordinary americans live. We were shocked when we visited Melbourne Fl to see the massive encampments.

AS the film was about the husband shooting people, well gun ownership is illegal here so less chance of being shot in UK.
johnep
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I was very surprised to be reading the Sunday paper this week and see and ad from an pharmacist looking for work, full time or part time. The demand here in the northeast has contracted sharply. There are many more new pharmacy schools in the region of the country. New York has opened at least 3 new ones that I know of. It's getting ridiculous. The current market will simply not support this influx of new practitioners. I am very unhappy about all the new pharmacy schools that are being allow to open their doors. It's unsustainable.
 
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Hi everyone. My fiance(pharm student) and I are planning to move either to San Francisco or NYC after graduation. I have read a lot of posts about the saturation in S.Cal. What about the saturation in N. California. Is it a lot better?

Also, I have seen a lot of openings for pharmacist jobs online with very good salary. I understand the cost of living is extremely high. However, I have seen lots of pharmacists jobs openings online. I wonder why people keep stating it is saturated? Please excuse my ignorance on the subject.
 
I am a graduate intern class of 09. I have a hard time to find a job around my city area. u have to travel at least 45 miles radius or 70 miles for a rural area...I cant find a job in groceries chain, supermarket, CVS (but they give u crappy as store), Rite Aid, Costco, Giant, Safeway, Walmart, Target, Wegmans...They came to my school for interview and nobody ever return the calls....I am more nervous than you guys since a lot of pharmacy school is opening
 
do you have a nice body? Strip club always hiring. It's a great in between job.
 
MrBlue said:
Cactus, how do you know that you aren't less qualified? Did you go through a rigorous US school? Do you care to post what country/school/classes you took. Care to post your syllabus? Most foreign grads I have worked with readily tell me that their school wasn't that hard. Ask them how many hours they studied a night, and the answer might surprise you.

And don't expect to hide behind that joke of a test NAPLEX. Everyone passes the NAPLEX. Now if you had said that you passed the old California State Test that would be different. That was a real test. But no surprise that US grads had a much higher pass rate than foreign grads on that test. Could it be because US students have a more rigerous program? And that the US schools do a better job at weeding out unqualified candidates? Could it be that corporation lowered standards to help facilitate the increase in foregin grads?

That being said, I don't blame you at all. You did what you could to better your life and I would have done the same. I am not angry with you, and going after the foreigner is not what I am advocating. I am angry with corporations that have commoditized my profession.

There are foreign grads here defending their honor, and I understand that. But these are the same foregin grads that in five years will be complaining about job conditions and about how we didn't get a raise this year. Connect the dots! People have no idea what is coming down our way. With the huge increase in domestic schools,we could supply the country domestically.
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now let's be honest...do you really think it takes a genius to be a retail pharmacist? it does not matter what school they went to, as long as they can do the job. if you get a clinical position, the lack of knowledge would show after a week, and there would be consequences. in retail, who cares what school background you have, when a technician can do your job.

I think you are exaggerating the difficulty of US school system. there are about 15 "rigorous" US curriculum schools out there...once you get into pharmacy school it is all about time management, and it may seem difficult because undergrad was literally a joke. once you get adjusted, it is just fine. the hardest thing about pharmacy school is if you have to work, which can take a chunk out of your study time.
 
confettiflyer:I don't know what part of California you reside in, but I have seen foreign grads flood the state. Palm Springs was always hurting for staffing in the past. But right now my friend was only able to find one possible job in the area. The Walmarts in the area, which I used to work for, filled their positions with foreign grads. Rite Aid did the same thing, and I assume that the rest of the companies followed suit. Rite Aid's study program for the board was approxamitely 100 out of 130 foreign school grads.

maldini:I don't know how long it has been since you graduated, but pharmacy is one of the most compettive fields in the nation. Right now only the best and the brightest are being admitted. My school was very rigerous. About 40% washed out the first year, and many more were dropped in subsequent years. This is about what I hear from most US schools, save for a few joke schools that should be washed out to.

If you think that retail work doesn't require much brain power, you are correct. There are many lumps I know who are collecting pay checks. But that is not the point. If you want to see our profession decend into commodity level work, you will have to expect comodity level pay. Foreign grads are not elevating the type of work we are expected to do.

Secondly, if working retail is so intellectually unchallenging. Then why don't we grandfather our techs into being Rph. There are many hardworking,smart, and honest techs I have worked with. I think that there are tons of techs, given a few months to study, that could pass the NAPLEX.Anyone here advocate this?
 
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MrBlue said:
Secondly, if working retail is so intellectually unchallenging. Then why don't we grandfather our techs into being Rph. There are many hardworking,smart, and honest techs I have worked with. I think that there are tons of techs, given a few months to study, that could pass the NAPLEX.Anyone here advocate this?
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i am not sure if any tech would be able to pass the naplex....
 
Sucks to have 200k in student loan debt and be unemployed doesn't it. Read the other thread on foreign grads flooding the market and you will know why this is happening. Not to be a prick or anything, but you could have gone overseas for your degree come back in 4 years with minimal debt and gotten an RpH job 3 years ago.

How does that shaft feel?
 
MrBlue said:
Sucks to have 200k in student loan debt and be unemployed doesn't it. Read the other thread on foreign grads flooding the market and you will know why this is happening. Not to be a prick or anything, but you could have gone overseas for your degree come back in 4 years with minimal debt and gotten an RpH job 3 years ago.

How does that shaft feel?
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You could elicit the same amount of fear with much less effort. you are trying too hard.
 
" Rite Aid's study program for the board was approxamitely 100 out of 130 foreign school grads."

Check their stock price lately?
 
We should lobby Obama to deport those Indian back to where they belong. Indian smell bad, talk bad and are no good. They must go.
 
PharmaTope said:
coming out of residency I am not even seeing positions available to even apply to for a 50 mile radius.

I am finding 75% of new PharmD graduates in the area are jobless. I cannot up my family and relocate right now either.

Wtf is up with this surplus! there are no jobs in retail, hospital, etc. per diem is a miracle if you can find it. east coast is not so hot right now.
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You can't blame this on a surplus of pharmacists. I can't find a job in law enforcement to save my damn life right now. What you can blame this on is nobody is budging.

People aren't willing to give up their job security during a recession and that is a historically proven fact. So, the pharmacists in a 50 mile radius who would have been quick to give up their positions to take others aren't doing so right now.

People on here are doomsday theorists and it's ridiculous. :rolleyes:
 
CopToPharm said:
You can't blame this on a surplus of pharmacists. I can't find a job in law enforcement to save my damn life right now. What you can blame this on is nobody is budging.

People aren't willing to give up their job security during a recession and that is a historically proven fact. So, the pharmacists in a 50 mile radius who would have been quick to give up their positions to take others aren't doing so right now.

People on here are doomsday theorists and it's ridiculous. :rolleyes:
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i know with the recession everything is down across the board, but from what i hear law enforcement is a decent career (if you don't work in a high crime area) with good benefits and pension. so why the change to pharmacy if you don't mind me asking?
 
jachen84 said:
i know with the recession everything is down across the board, but from what i hear law enforcement is a decent career (if you don't work in a high crime area) with good benefits and pension. so why the change to pharmacy if you don't mind me asking?
Click to expand...

You have PM.
 
Maxpwer222 said:
These threads get annoying.
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Agreed and I think they're trolls... like 5 of these threads have started in the past 48 hours. I'd almost be willing to bet it's the same person.
 
Maldini: I bet highschool grads could pass the NAPLEX. You just read a test prep book and memorize the answers. And because the test is curved it is easy. Fail? Just take the test in another month. It is seriously that easy. I know several classmates who tell me the same thing. Drink the night before, come to the test hungover, and they nailed the test.

BanBiDil: Rite Aid is a joke of a company. But their actions affect the rest of the industry. If they are sponsoring all of these people, they will get in and stay here. Secondly, I know for a fact that Walmart is doing the same thing and so are Walgreens and CVS.

befree: why the hate? Indians are among the smartest people in the planet. Sure there are third world Indians, but that is true of every race. You are focusing on the wrong thing, because you are simple minded. Indians,or anyone for that matter, can come work here as far as I care. But they should not be able to make use of a back door that puts domestic workers at a disadvantage. Make them take the Pcab and apply to US schools, then make them go through US standard schools. After that, I have no problem at all and would welcome more brain power coming into our profession.
 
Maxpwer222 said:
You could elicit the same amount of fear with much less effort. you are trying too hard.
Click to expand...

No I am not. A small minority of people already know what is going on. A small minority will be in denial till the very end. The rest are somewhere in the middle. The people in the middle are to comfortable in their nice cushy jobs to be bothered by something bad down the road. Most of these people would need to be whacked on the side of the head before they realized what is going on.
 
You students here are in need of big dose of reality. The pharmacy gravy train is pulling up to the last station. I have been through the entire boom and shortage and can tell you, without hesitation, that things have not been this slow in over 10 years.

Yes, there is a recession. The chains are tightening their belts. I don't see nearly as many new stores going up. Even the hospital jobs, while once abundant (in this area), are now not as easy to obtain. The projected surplus is just that, a projection, nothing more.

Don't count on a government run intervention to save you either. That will make matters ten times worse. Just ask any physician or surgeon what they think about government reimbursement for their services. What do you suppose they'll do for script reimbursement? When they gut it, what do you think the third parties will do? After that, what do you think the chains will do? Think about it for a minute, follow the money, and ask yourself what allows a company to pay a pharmacist more than 100k a year?

This is a panic that allowed the college institution community to profit immensely. Never forget that the colleges are running a business too and stand to reap big profits off of potential students willing to shell out up to 200K on a pharmacy degree. Granted, the job prospects are going to depend on many factors, retail market, hospital jobs, non-traditional roles, # of women in pharmacy, etc.

I cannot see, under any circumstances, the current market supporting the exponential expected increases in new graduates. We are well on our way to becoming the new "law" degree. With that, will come a precipitous decline in salaries. You can make book on that.

We need to be able to bill for services in our niche. That's the only way were going to survive. MTM is a start, but its happening way to slowly.

Who in their right mind would obtain a bachelors degree, go to 4 years of pharmacy school, and then two years of residency to be a pharmacist? 6 to 10 years of school and you cant even write a prescription? If your that motivated, and that talented, you should just go to medical school. You'll help many more people, make a great deal more money, and in the long run get 10x more respect.
 
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Who in their right mind would obtain a bachelors degree, go to 4 years of pharmacy school, and then two years of residency to be a pharmacist? 6 to 10 years of school and you cant even write a prescription?
Click to expand...
Looks to me like you did it, cjhrph. Honestly, from the context of your last message, it also sounds to me like you're having a mid-life crisis. Maybe regretting what you should and could have done so you're coming here to call us all idiots.
 
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By the way, I don't necessarily deny anything you say, but I think it'll be like anything else. As I've said in other threads, which you can look up, is that the cream always rises to the top. If you're in the field, deserve to be in the field, are a great human being with compassion, there is and always will be a place for you in the field.

Your "law degree" statement holds no weight. Sure, there's lots of people who grab up a law degree today just to do it. However, after being in and around the court system for multiple multiple years I can tell you there are good and there are bad. The good are the ones who are making it.. the bad are the ones who are shutting their doors.

Let all these pharmacists come into the industry and when the time comes they'll find their place... likely stuffing boxes in a mail order pharmacy. No offense is meant by that to the good ones in the mail order industry - just that it offers more protection for the idiots amongst you.

Don't count on a government run intervention to save you either. That will make matters ten times worse. Just ask and physician or surgeon what they think about government reimbursement for their services.
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Source: http://www.studentdoctor.net/2008/08/do-not-resuscitate/
"When Canada went to its single-payer system, physician incomes changed little. Today, generalist physicians in England [socialist medicine] are better paid than their counterparts in the U. S."


Fear mongering will get you nowhere. Remember that.
 
PharmaTope said:
number i got from faculty members at a local school. cant guarantee the number since i didnt speak to 100% of the class.
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I'd like to verify your statement. Please give me the contact information for the school. If this is true, I'd like to hear it from the horses mouth because it would be of interest to the entire SDN Pharmacy community.
 
are you in the nyc area? i just graduated, live in nyc, was able to line up 3 job interviews before i got a position at the first hospital i applied for. there's still a demand, even in nyc. so perhaps it might depend on what position you are seeking. a staff position, i'm sure you can find. but since you have done a residency and are seeking a clinical position, you might not find that so easily.

but as for my graduating class, i'd say maybe ~30 people who are jobless out of 280, and that's because they had no pharmacy work experience outside of school internships.

good luck with your job search!!
 
NY is filled with Canadien doctors that left the single payer system. NY is also filled with Canadien patients needing medical care. If we go socialized, where will the Canadiens go?
 
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"Maybe regretting what you should and could have done so you're coming here to call us all idiots."

I did not resort to name calling. I don't need to.


"Your "law degree" statement holds no weight."

Sure it does. Ask any lawyer what the expected starting salary is for them if they didn't go to a top tier school and make the law review. Around here, they are lucky to start at 50k.




"When Canada went to its single-payer system, physician incomes changed little. Today, generalist physicians in England [socialist medicine] are better paid than their counterparts in the U. S."
You must not know many US physicians personally. Socialized medicine does not work. Please direct me to a country that has sucessfully implemented a socialized medicine program.


"Fear mongering will get you nowhere. Remember that."

It's not fear. These are the facts. By the way, I have already arrived. It is what it is. Your ivory tower professors are not going to tell you the truth. You may want to put the books down long enough to actually speak to someone in the field. Curiously, how did you choose pharmacy? Please tell me it wasn't because the "job outlook" was promising...
 
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I agree with what cjhrph have said. The situation doesn't look too good for outcoming/future pharmacists. I would say at least 2-3 yrs before anything looks better. At my hospital, everyday my director gets at least 2-3 phone calls asking for jobs (pharmacist jobs), and no we are not hiring anyone anymore. Again, this varies from state to states, and city to city...so i cannot conclude that there is no more jobs. Of course there are out there, but you just have to do more leg work and suck it up...for a while.

Talked to an RN today and she said the same thing is happening now with nurses. Yes, nurses!!!! Most hospitals are freezing the hiring right now. It is gonna get a lot worse....So be prepared.
 
cjhrph said:
You students here are in need of big dose of reality. The pharmacy gravy train is pulling up to the last station. I have been through the entire boom and shortage and can tell you, without hesitation, that things have not been this slow in over 10 years.

Yes, there is a recession. The chains are tightening their belts. I don't see nearly as many new stores going up. Even the hospital jobs, while once abundant (in this area), are now not as easy to obtain. The projected surplus is just that, a projection, nothing more.

Don't count on a government run intervention to save you either. That will make matters ten times worse. Just ask and physician or surgeon what they think about government reimbursement for their services. What do you suppose they'll do for script reimbursement? When they gut it, what do you think the third parties will do? After that, what do you think the chains will do? Think about it for a minute, follow the money and ask yourself what allows a company to pay a pharmacist more than 100k a year?

This is a panic that allowed the college institution community to profit immensely. Never forget that the colleges are running a business too and stand to reap big profits off of potential students willing to shell out up to 200K on a pharmacy degree. Granted, the job prospects are going to depend on many factors, retail market, hospital jobs, non-traditional roles, # of women in pharmacy, etc.

I cannot see, under any circumstances, the current market supporting the exponential expected increases in new graduates. We are well on our way to becoming the new "law" degree. With that, will come a precipitous decline in salaries. You can make book on that.

We need to be able to bill for services in our niche. That's the only way were going to survive. MTM is a start, but its happening way to slowly.

Who in their right mind would obtain a bachelors degree, go to 4 years of pharmacy school, and then two years of residency to be a pharmacist? 6 to 10 years of school and you cant even write a prescription? If your that motivated, and that talented, you should just go to medical school. You'll make way more money in the long run and get 10x more respect.
Click to expand...

Is that really how it is going to be? This may change my whole plan on becoming a pharmacist :/
 
Sure it does. Ask any lawyer what the expected starting salary is for them if they didn't go to a top tier school and make the law review. Around here, they are lucky to start at 50k.
Click to expand...

My mother studied law UNDER an attorney and didn't even attend an actual law school. Rest assured she well surpasses your benchmark for what constitutes a 'good lawyer.' Again, regardless of anything, the cream rises to the top.


Please tell me it wasn't because the "job outlook" was promising...
Click to expand...

I chose Pharmacy because I've worked the streets in what is considered the area with the highest prescription abuse per capita in the United States. I excel in school and have an excellent opportunity to fill a niche that needs to be filled locally - a pharmacist who will fight prescription abuse and not aid in it at the sight of a dollar.

I'm in rural America, the job outlook for ANY health care related field is promising here... and will be, for many, many years to come.
 
homeslice said:
solution: move out of the city
Click to expand...

Exactly. To cure my own interest, I just checked the Virginia Employment Commission listings for my area. There are three hospital pharmacist positions available in my district alone right now. There's also a retail pharmacist position available.

Statewide in Virginia?
Your search found 301 job(s) that matched your search criteria. That's the number posted in the last 14 days!

It's all about where you are. If you're in NYC... yea, you're gonna have a bit of trouble. Then again, pick up that history book from undergrad, and remind yourself that every labor group for the entire history of the U.S. has struggled eventually with the job market in a city.
 
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"It's all about where you are."

At this moment in time. Fact remains, that the job environment has taken a turn for the worse. You just don't seem to get it. Flooding the current market with more bodies by opening more pharmacy schools is going make the situation very difficult if not untenable. You need to open your mind, take an objective look at the situation, and look beyond the horizon a bit.

"and will be, for many, many years to come."

This statement has no basis in fact.
 
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cjhrph said:
"It's all about where you are."

At this moment in time..... You need to open your mind, take an objective look at the situation, and look beyond the horizon a bit.
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I am looking beyond the horizon. I'm looking beyond living paycheck to paycheck and giving back to my area of this state. I'll do this job for $70,000.00 a year instead of $100,000.00 a year and love every minute of it.

Again, I never said I disputed your facts, I'm just telling you, again, it's all about where you are.

Median household income, 2007 $32,175

That's the kind of poverty stricken area I'm from and we need medical professionals. Any docs out there? The local hospital is including houses as part of their sign on package.
 
"I chose Pharmacy because I've worked the streets in what is considered the area with the highest prescription abuse per capita in the United States. I excel in school and have an excellent opportunity to fill a niche that needs to be filled locally - a pharmacist who will fight prescription abuse and not aid in it at the sight of a dollar."

Mr. Cop,
When you learn about pain, and the difference between physical dependence, addiction, pseudo addiction and under treatment, I think you will be a little more compassionate. Pain is very difficult to treat mainly because it is subjective.
 
Ugh everytime I come to these boards, I get depressed from these lack of job threads :( The Walgreens Power stuff doesn't help either.
 
cjhrph said:
You students here are in need of big dose of reality. The pharmacy gravy train is pulling up to the last station. I have been through the entire boom and shortage and can tell you, without hesitation, that things have not been this slow in over 10 years.

Yes, there is a recession. The chains are tightening their belts. I don't see nearly as many new stores going up. Even the hospital jobs, while once abundant (in this area), are now not as easy to obtain. The projected surplus is just that, a projection, nothing more.

Don't count on a government run intervention to save you either. That will make matters ten times worse. Just ask any physician or surgeon what they think about government reimbursement for their services. What do you suppose they'll do for script reimbursement? When they gut it, what do you think the third parties will do? After that, what do you think the chains will do? Think about it for a minute, follow the money, and ask yourself what allows a company to pay a pharmacist more than 100k a year?

This is a panic that allowed the college institution community to profit immensely. Never forget that the colleges are running a business too and stand to reap big profits off of potential students willing to shell out up to 200K on a pharmacy degree. Granted, the job prospects are going to depend on many factors, retail market, hospital jobs, non-traditional roles, # of women in pharmacy, etc.

I cannot see, under any circumstances, the current market supporting the exponential expected increases in new graduates. We are well on our way to becoming the new "law" degree. With that, will come a precipitous decline in salaries. You can make book on that.

We need to be able to bill for services in our niche. That's the only way were going to survive. MTM is a start, but its happening way to slowly.

Who in their right mind would obtain a bachelors degree, go to 4 years of pharmacy school, and then two years of residency to be a pharmacist? 6 to 10 years of school and you cant even write a prescription? If your that motivated, and that talented, you should just go to medical school. You'll help many more people, make a great deal more money, and in the long run and get 10x more respect.
Click to expand...


good post. some people are saying to open up the job search. this 50 mile radius is for any job, not just clinical or staffing. i talked to some people i know at a place i did college rotations at they said they could hire me as a tech for 9 an hour but got no pharmacist jobs.
 
"I'll do this job for $70,000.00 a year instead of $100,000.00 a year...The local hospital is including houses as part of their sign on package."

So I was right about your motivation for choosing pharmacy. It's all about your narcissism, the job opportunity, and the money. Your the epitomization of the practitioner we don't need in pharmacy. You'd have lasted less than a week in my rotation. Since your a pre-pharm student and your ears aren't even wet yet, Ill give you a break.... :>
 
cjhrph said:
So I was right about your motivation for choosing pharmacy. It's all about your narcissism, the job opportunity, and the money.
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:rolleyes: You know what happens when we assume, right?
 
this thread got nasty with egos fast.
 
I don't think it's gotten nasty. A little ballbusting maybe...
 
cjhrph said:
"and will be, for many, many years to come."

This statement has no basis in fact.
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Sure, maybe not concrete evidence, I'll agree with that statement.

However, you can't argue with these facts - this is in comparison to the rest of my State. As long as these facts hold true there will be opportunities in the medical field.

23% more likely to die from heart disease
44% more likely to die from chronic obstructive pulmonary disease
41% more likely to die from pneumonia or influenza
30% more likely to die from diabetes
54% more likely to die from chronic liver disease
70% more likely to die from unintentional injuries and
70% more likely to commit suicide. (In fact the region has among the highest suicide rates in the state.)
Population with Medicaid (2004) 25.9%

This area is incredibly medically under served. In addition to Federal loan forgiveness there are also State reimbursement options if you commit to work here. The problem is it's rural... very rural. Regardless of the opportunities available it's difficult to find people who want to stay in this area.
 
CopToPharm said:
Sure, maybe not concrete evidence, I'll agree with that statement.

However, you can't argue with these facts - this is in comparison to the rest of my State. As long as these facts hold true there will be opportunities in the medical field.

23% more likely to die from heart disease
44% more likely to die from chronic obstructive pulmonary disease
41% more likely to die from pneumonia or influenza
30% more likely to die from diabetes
54% more likely to die from chronic liver disease
70% more likely to die from unintentional injuries and
70% more likely to commit suicide. (In fact the region has among the highest suicide rates in the state.)
Population with Medicaid (2004) 25.9%

This area is incredibly medically under served. In addition to Federal loan forgiveness there are also State reimbursement options if you commit to work here. The problem is it's rural... very rural. Regardless of the opportunities available it's difficult to find people who want to stay in this area.
Click to expand...

You won't help those statistics much as a pharmacist. As a doctor, you would be able to do more, but I think if you worked as a public health educator and pushed for a required health class in high / middle school, you would make more of an impact.
 
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