Pharmacy Outlook is not gloomy!

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pharmddreams

pharmddreams

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In an effort to protect the integrity of the pharmacy profession by ensuring that the most qualified prospective pre-pharmacy students will continue to enter the field of pharmacy, I want you guys to question the gloomy future of pharmacy that has been cast here by SDN. :)

How many current students out of the 10k students that graduate each year are on here saying that the job market is terrible? There are a few pharmacists that have posted here about not be able to find a job out of how what 300k pharmacists that are in the workforce. Maybe there is a reason that these pharmacists lost their job or are unable to secure a position as a pharmacist. Bad personality? Not willing to relocate? Bad pharmacist?

And for everyone that is currently working in a pharmacy you can talk to your managers to find out what the job situation is like. Its not gloom and doom as some people on SDN have made it appear to be. It makes sense that areas around many main cities are saturated; physicians and dentists..etc experience the same effect.

Also keep in mind the excellent job outlook from the Bureau of Labor Statistics was calculated using a large sample of pharmacists from different locations compared to the outlook here on SDN by a few people probably in saturated areas...

Letting a few current pharmacists or pharmacy students that post on this forum shape your entire perception of pharmacy?:laugh:
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Pharmacy section SDN'ers highly overrate the actual "gloominess" of the pharmacy job market. Truth be told, if I wasn't a pharm tech, I would never have considered going to a pharmacy school after just reading all those SDN doom & gloom posts.

Sometimes, I really wonder the volume of pre-pharmers that might have become victims - those with the potential of becoming tomorrow's greatest pharmacists.
 
OP is pre-pharmacy, 'nuff said.

I did talk to my district manager. He said there's no way I would be able to have a job in the chain I work for in the city where I'm going to school (Philly).

I did talk to my roommate. He has a very high GPA and has done research/tutoring and retail experience. His old chain is not taking him because he stopped working there when he started rotations. Otherwise, no job offers yet, and he applied everywhere (I mean everywhere, even as far away as New Mexico).
 
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This job outlook is a source of great stress for me so I appreciate the optimism.

However, note that part of the Bureau of Labor and Statistics excellent job outlook is based partially on what they note to be "limited capacity of training programs". It does not appear that they have taken into consideration the new schools and the expansion of existing programs.
 
hillwilliam said:
This job outlook is a source of great stress for me so I appreciate the optimism.

However, note that part of the Bureau of Labor and Statistics excellent job outlook is based partially on what they note to be "limited capacity of training programs". It does not appear that they have taken into consideration the new schools and the expansion of existing programs.
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Nor did it look into the economic aspect of retail pharmacy and the fact that it is no longer expanding like it was assumed to.
 
If you are top notch, you will get a job. Straight As don't make you top notch, by the way. Maybe it's not pharmacy job outlook that's gloomy; rather it is the pharmacists' quality!
 
pharmddreams said:
In an effort to protect the integrity of the pharmacy profession by ensuring that the most qualified prospective pre-pharmacy students will continue to enter the field of pharmacy, I want you guys to question the gloomy future of pharmacy that has been cast here by SDN. :)

How many current students out of the 10k students that graduate each year are on here saying that the job market is terrible? There are a few pharmacists that have posted here about not be able to find a job out of how what 300k pharmacists that are in the workforce. Maybe there is a reason that these pharmacists lost their job or are unable to secure a position as a pharmacist. Bad personality? Not willing to relocate? Bad pharmacist?

And for everyone that is currently working in a pharmacy you can talk to your managers to find out what the job situation is like. Its not gloom and doom as some people on SDN have made it appear to be. It makes sense that areas around many main cities are saturated; physicians and dentists..etc experience the same effect.

Also keep in mind the excellent job outlook from the Bureau of Labor Statistics was calculated using a large sample of pharmacists from different locations compared to the outlook here on SDN by a few people probably in saturated areas...

Letting a few current pharmacists or pharmacy students that post on this forum shape your entire perception of pharmacy?:laugh:
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I see what you are trying to do, but don't be so naive. There are some real concerns, and as a pre-pharmer, wouldn't you want to investigate both sides of the issue? Are you really going to just blindly believe what you are told just because you like what you hear? Do some real research and form your own ideas IMO.

The article does not address some major concerns that would impact supply and demand, and it mentions nothing about the supply side which IMO is the real issue.
 
See, I've done research and maybe I'm one of the few people who still thinks that the job outlook on pharmacy still has a chance of bouncing back by the time I graduate. (predicting 2016-17) I like to keep an optimistic outlook on things.
 
I didn't say the sources for there job outlook were good. I'm just saying that I feel it should bounce back in a couple of years. I've read a bunch of those articles that say Pharmacy lost the integrity it once had, or the job market is saturated, graduating rate to job ratio is terrible. All that stuff. I know you said you are just warning all the pre-pharms about the imminent doom of Pharmacy, but like I said I'm one of those few people who think that the job still has a chance. :)
 
No one can predict what the job market with bring when current pre-pharms are ready to enter the market.

Trends change constantly, which is evidenced by the fact that the BLS numbers might not be accurate as.....hey, trends have changed!
 
hillwilliam said:
This job outlook is a source of great stress for me so I appreciate the optimism.

However, note that part of the Bureau of Labor and Statistics excellent job outlook is based partially on what they note to be "limited capacity of training programs". It does not appear that they have taken into consideration the new schools and the expansion of existing programs.
Click to expand...
Dave4468 said:
The article does not address some major concerns that would impact supply and demand, and it mentions nothing about the supply side which IMO is the real issue.
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In response to the supply side of things,

According to BLS: in 2018 45,000 more pharmacist will be needed than there were in 2008, this is the projected demand. Lets assume 10 schools are opening up per year with class sizes ranging from 60-100 so lets say 1000 more new grads per year entering the market each year than the year before just to be conservative even though this is an overestimate.

Lets do the math. Assume that there were 10,000 pharmacists entering and leaving the market in 2008 and that only 10,000 pharmacists will leave the market each year as the number of graduates continue to increase. So over 10 years let each year have 1000 more pharmacy graduates. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 thousand graduates graduating each year from 2008 to 2018.

(19+18+17+16+15+14+13+12+11+10)-10(10)=45 thousand graduates and this supply matches the demand of pharmacists projected for 2018.
 
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bacillus1 said:
OP is pre-pharmacy, 'nuff said.
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I am an intern and have been working in retail for many years. I have monitored the the job situation for interns as well as pharmacists and can say that it has been and still is good. It just depends where you are.

Once again people do your own research and look at the situation in your area. Don't let a few people on SDN shape your perception of pharmacy.
 
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Wow didn't know there are so many naive pre-pharmers now. I just finished typing in a thread 2 seconds ago by another naive pre-pharmer. But anyways, the truth is this. Pharmacy is saturated. That is a fact, anyone trying to deny that is just lying to themselves. Pharmacy is saturated. When you apply for a pharmacy position expect yourself to be one out of at least 30 people also applying for the same position.

Does that mean you have to drop out now? No, not if you are the best.
Does that mean you won't get a job for sure? No, not if you are the best. Does that mean the pharmacy profession is no longer profitable for you? No, not if you are the best.

The point is pharmacy is saturated, there are jobs but again you have to be the BEST to land it. You can't be an average or below average candidiate and expect to land offers. That will never happen now. If you think you are the BEST and you really love pharmacy, then go for it. But thinking that pharmacy is a profession in which anyone can easily land a job is not a smart move b/c you will be diaspointted.
 
SHC1984 said:
Wow didn't know there are so many naive pre-pharmers now. I just finished typing in a thread 2 seconds ago by another naive pre-pharmer. But anyways, the truth is this. Pharmacy is saturated. That is a fact, anyone trying to deny that is just lying to themselves. Pharmacy is saturated. When you apply for a pharmacy position expect yourself to be one out of at least 30 people also applying for the same position.

Does that mean you have to drop out now? No, not if you are the best.
Does that mean you won't get a job for sure? No, not if you are the best. Does that mean the pharmacy profession is no longer profitable for you? No, not if you are the best.

The point is pharmacy is saturated, there are jobs but again you have to be the BEST to land it. You can't be an average or below average candidiate and expect to land offers. That will never happen now. If you think you are the BEST and you really love pharmacy, then go for it. But thinking that pharmacy is a profession in which anyone can easily land a job is not a smart move b/c you will be diaspointted.
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Are you trying to say that everyone who isn't #1 has no hope in the future?
 
crazybob said:
Are you trying to say that everyone who isn't #1 has no hope in the future?
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If you are not in the top 10% of the pharmacy profession then you are screwed.

There just is not enough jobs to go around, so only the best people will get it. I am not saying that everyone needs to drop out now, but I am saying everyone needs to strive to be at the top of the profession or be out of a job. It's pretty simple.
 
SHC1984 said:
If you are not in the top 10% of the pharmacy profession then you are screwed.

There just is not enough jobs to go around, so only the best people will get it. I am not saying that everyone needs to drop out now, but I am saying everyone needs to strive to be at the top of the profession or be out of a job. It's pretty simple.
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So what's gonna happen to the 90%? Go broke? Declare bankruptcy?
 
Why do fellow SDNers claim that the job outlook for pharmacists is gloomy to begin with?
 
crazybob said:
So what's gonna happen to the 90%? Go broke? Declare bankruptcy?
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The same thing as the 90% of law graduates that can't find jobs. Find another job, do something else.

It's the folks that think EVERYONE will easily get a job in pharmacy and that pharmacy is a cakewalk to money, that will be truely diasppointed.
 
Oh no, I know it's saturated like crazy. Then again, as the confident individual I am, I believe I can be one of the best.
 
SHC1984 said:
If you are not in the top 10% of the pharmacy profession then you are screwed.

There just is not enough jobs to go around, so only the best people will get it. I am not saying that everyone needs to drop out now, but I am saying everyone needs to strive to be at the top of the profession or be out of a job. It's pretty simple.
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What constitutes being in the "top 10%" of our profession? Once you graduate, grades rarely matter. There are plenty of people in my class who don't have awesome GPA's but have landed jobs, will go on to get a top notch residency position, etc. I agree you can't be stupid and hope to land a job, but you can't honestly think that 90/100 people from my class will be unemployed because they haven't reached your standards of academia.
 
ttopping said:
What constitutes being in the "top 10%" of our profession? Once you graduate, grades rarely matter. There are plenty of people in my class who don't have awesome GPA's but have landed jobs, will go on to get a top notch residency position, etc. I agree you can't be stupid and hope to land a job, but you can't honestly think that 90/100 people from my class will be unemployed because they haven't reached your standards of academia.
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It's not just about the GPA. If your GPA is above a 3.5 (easily obtained) you will be fine. You also have to have many ex. activities, volunteer work, research publications, stellar LOR from everyone, and many more things.

Even in retail that matters. My preceptor told me they had ONE position available and it was a retail position at WALMART and there were millions of applications for that one spot. Later on my preceptor took a look at the guy's resume who landed that position and he was the president of every single organization he listed, he was also in Rho Chi, he did research, went to many regional meetings, had retail experience, did many hours of volunteer work etc. And again this is for a RETAIL position at WALMART.

Can you imagine how much more competitive a hospital job will be. I don't even want to know, but it's not going to be easy to land that!

Maybe not 90/100 people won't get jobs, but a good percentage will not. It's math. If there are only X amount of jobs but a bigger Y amount of graduates...then Y-X= number unemployed. Easy math...I am not trying to tricky anyone here!
 
Again, it's definitely a regional thing. Certainly higher areas of saturation are going to be more difficult to land a job so you'll need more qualifications. Other areas might take someone with just a lot of experience with a company and a good interview, no need for rho chi, research, all that other stuff (because that doesn't necessarily make someone a good pharmacist). There are a lot of other factors beside academics that's all I was trying to say.
 
Let me guess SHC1984 you work in Atlanta, GA? The market is saturated their since its a major city but I bet if you were willing to travel further out there would be jobs that would be obtained easily.
 
pharmddreams said:
Let me guess SHC1984 you work in Atlanta, GA? The market is saturated their since its a major city but I bet if you were willing to travel further out there would be jobs that would be obtained easily.
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She refuses to move, and doesn't want to relocate.
 
pharmddreams said:
Let me guess SHC1984 you work in Atlanta, GA? The market is saturated their since its a major city but I bet if you were willing to travel further out there would be jobs that would be obtained easily.
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heh....

I live in a city of 50k. No jobs. Within 3 hours either way the biggest city is 70k and the rest are under 10k. No jobs anywhere. Let me put it this way. I live in one of the most rural states in the union. There are no jobs here.
 
fauxden said:
heh....

I live in a city of 50k. No jobs. Within 3 hours either way the biggest city is 70k and the rest are under 10k. No jobs anywhere. Let me put it this way. I live in one of the most rural states in the union. There are no jobs here.
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http://www.shepscenter.unc.edu/data/nchpds/pharmacy.pdf, according to figure 13 on page 32 there were 7.1 pharmacists per 10,0000 people in the year 2000 for the united states. Seems like you live in a small state that probably doesn't need that many pharmacists. I wonder how many pharmacists graduate each year in your state.
 
pharmddreams said:
http://www.shepscenter.unc.edu/data/nchpds/pharmacy.pdf, according to figure 13 on page 32 there were 7.1 pharmacists per 10,0000 people in the year 2000 for the united states. Seems like you live in a small state that probably doesn't need that many pharmacists. I wonder how many pharmacists graduate each year in your state.
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So I live in a small state (pop. wise, im assuming?) and you are saying we don't need that many pharmacists. Could you also say I live in a rural state and we don't need that many pharmacists... hmmm... interesting. So the cities and RURAL areas are being saturated. Oh, and we graduate under 70 in my state.
 
pharmddreams said:
Let me guess SHC1984 you work in Atlanta, GA? The market is saturated their since its a major city but I bet if you were willing to travel further out there would be jobs that would be obtained easily.
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yeah I am in Atlanta. I do not mind relocating but I have to relocate to another major city. I do NOT like rural country areas. My hometown is Charlotte and that city is also saturated. Atlanta and Charlotte aren't even very big cities. It's no New York City or Los Angeles.
 
fauxden said:
heh....

I live in a city of 50k. No jobs. Within 3 hours either way the biggest city is 70k and the rest are under 10k. No jobs anywhere. Let me put it this way. I live in one of the most rural states in the union. There are no jobs here.
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I agree with your posts for the most part. There are VERY FEW positions available, but there are jobs...but again VERY FEW.

You can get jobs, but you have to be one of the best. If you are just average then you will not get a job. That's how it is.
 
fauxden said:
So I live in a small state (pop. wise, im assuming?) and you are saying we don't need that many pharmacists. Could you also say I live in a rural state and we don't need that many pharmacists... hmmm... interesting. So the cities and RURAL areas are being saturated. Oh, and we graduate under 70 in my state.
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States with a larger population need more pharmacists than those states with smaller population. It is within rural populated areas of larger states that will continue to be underserved. SHC1894, more pharmacists are entering the market today than before so people are choosing to live in the cities and that is why they are saturated. There are jobs if you look outside the city.
 
Excuse me! There is NO future for pharmacy Let's me repeat: THERE IS NO FUTURE FOR PHARMACY.

What happened to japan lately is pretty much an indication of the END OF THE WORLD in 2012. Now, let's face the fact, you never know what will happen to you, so stop WORRYING and start LIVING.
 
5minutes said:
Excuse me! There is NO future for pharmacy Let's me repeat: THERE IS NO FUTURE FOR PHARMACY.

What happened to japan lately is pretty much an indication of the END OF THE WORLD in 2012. Now, let's face the fact, you never know what will happen to you, so stop WORRYING and start LIVING.
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You left off the /sarcasm brotato.
 
Do any of you know if the job outlook projected to be as terrible when someone like me would potentially graduate in 2016 or 2017
 
mmdw said:
Do any of you know if the job outlook projected to be as terrible when someone like me would potentially graduate in 2016 or 2017
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It's not terrible now. No one can predict the future of course, but pharmacy will likely remain a strong contender, just as strong as any other career, for a variety of reasons. I recommend reading Phathead's market analysis posted here on this forum.
 
5minutes said:
Well, people in japan can't be more serious, aren't they?
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Huh???

I'm trying to track down your logic here. You're saying that because of this earthquake and the subsequent tsunami, people in Japan are now serious about the malarkey of "2012"... or something?

I'm talking about you. You can't be serious in being persuaded by an earthquake that anything world-ending is going to occur precisely on December 21st of next year. That just makes absolutely no sense and as an empiricist, you oughta be ashamed.

The Microsoft calendar ends on December 31st, 2099 - Does that mean that Bill Gates is predicting the end of the world? C'mon.
 
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