Pharmacy Outlook is not gloomy!

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rxstudent13 said:
.... In all my four years of pharmacy, my school never once held a panel of "how to start your own independent pharmacy" or "how to be an effective community pharmacist." They never mentioned about how much further in debt you'll be if you choose to do a residency.
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Filler said:
Funny, we just had a individual come in and talk to the class about opening/operating an independent pharmacy, I believe he owns a couple of pharmacies..and 2 weeks ago we had 3 clinical pharmacist give their own talk..i guess it's school specific.
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For sure. I have only heard one professor even mention residency. We have a panel of pharmacist come and talk to us in first year, and the panel included residents, but it wasn't "stacked". If anything I wouldn't mind the school giving us more info about residencies - from where I sit I don't even see the point. Perhaps in the third year we will get more info - I have no idea. :shrug:
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rxstudent13 said:
I have to agree. People who do residency have to defer their loans for one year. The interest accrues. By the time they start paying off their loans, they end up owing another $100,000 on top of what they took out AND how much they would have owed had they started working right away. That is because they are one year behind in their payments. Residency also does not guarantee a job. I did a hospital rotation that was interviewing for hospital pharmacists. One candidate was still looking for jobs six months after completing her residency. Sadly, the hospital didn't hire her.
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Uhhh...what?
 
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chemguy79 said:
I am intrigued by this concept since, in the residency thread, you stated something to the effect of I don't know why one would do a residency if they were not guaranteed a position afterwards. You seem to fail to understand the concept of residency. Residencies are to obtain TRAINING, not a JOB. Schools are not "brainwashing naive students"; Some "pharmacy students" are painfully naive when they make gross assumptions about situations that they aren't educated about.
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Yeah well I don't need any additional training. I can step into any pharmacist job straight out of school: ICU, transplant, infectious disease, you name it - and excel.
 
Somatic said:
Yeah well I don't need any additional training. I can step into any pharmacist job straight out of school: ICU, transplant, infectious disease, you name it - and excel.
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:bullcrap: :bullcrap: :bullcrap: :bullcrap: :bullcrap:
 
Passion4Sci said:
I can't speak for anyone else, but the very first pharmacist I ever volunteered for was a clinical pharmacist and he led me to that path. Working directly in clinics for hypertension & smoking cessation is so much better than anything staff / retail pharmacy has to offer. I've been a tech in both settings and while I'd definitely take a retail job if I had to, I'd prefer the AmCare setting.

I don't know about schools brainwashing anyone, at least not here at UoP. Maybe UCSF pushes residency but so far, I've yet to feel compelled in one way or another.
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These jobs are few and far between. You can always count on the people who have these jobs to hold on to them for life. So the chance of any recent grads getting these kind of jobs is slim to none. Oh and they pay less than retail anyways :rolleyes:
 
crazybob said:
:bullcrap: :bullcrap: :bullcrap: :bullcrap: :bullcrap:
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I'm serious!!! One of my preceptors, a well renowned clinical pharmacist, called me the "God of pharmacy" and actually told the director that they should hire me for a critical care job right away
 
Somatic said:
I'm serious!!! One of my preceptors, a well renowned clinical pharmacist, called me the "God of pharmacy" and actually told the director that they should hire me for a critical care job right away
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not sure if serious
 
Passion4Sci said:
Huh???

I'm trying to track down your logic here. You're saying that because of this earthquake and the subsequent tsunami, people in Japan are now serious about the malarkey of "2012"... or something?

I'm talking about you. You can't be serious in being persuaded by an earthquake that anything world-ending is going to occur precisely on December 21st of next year. That just makes absolutely no sense and as an empiricist, you oughta be ashamed.

The Microsoft calendar ends on December 31st, 2099 - Does that mean that Bill Gates is predicting the end of the world? C'mon.
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I think (?) what 5minutes is trying to say is that it seems like there is an acceleration in the rate of natural events occurring around the globe that is leading up to doomsday...so enjoy life while you can.

Maybe I'm way off though.
 
Somatic said:
These jobs are few and far between. You can always count on the people who have these jobs to hold on to them for life. So the chance of any recent grads getting these kind of jobs is slim to none. Oh and they pay less than retail anyways :rolleyes:
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Heh ... since you're the "God of Pharmacy" they should bow at your feet, give you a sign-on bonus, and pay you 25K more than those already in the position. We know that you're already a fraud, so just own up to it "God of Pharmacy."

Besides, you always talk about how much you want to get paid, so go work in retail instead of taking away a clinical care position from someone who actually wants to do it.

Originally Posted by rxstudent13
I have to agree. People who do residency have to defer their loans for one year. The interest accrues. By the time they start paying off their loans, they end up owing another $100,000 on top of what they took out AND how much they would have owed had they started working right away. That is because they are one year behind in their payments. Residency also does not guarantee a job. I did a hospital rotation that was interviewing for hospital pharmacists. One candidate was still looking for jobs six months after completing her residency. Sadly, the hospital didn't hire her.
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You really don't know much about student loan repayment, do you? Unless the interest rate is insane or the person is defaulting on their loans, that is impossible. Blatant exaggeration such as this makes one question the rest of the content in your posts on the board.

You haven't been to pharmacy school so you don't know what Somatic is talking about.
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*smirk* Yeah, the four pharmacists who I work with at my company that recently graduated, who attended 3 different pharmacy schools, haven't shared their stories with me about pharmacy school and helped me in the process.

I's just a wittle pre-pharm who knows nuffin' bout farm school. I's should just hush up and let "pharmacy students" spout their "helpful comments". :rolleyes: Sorry, but I think that my years of experience in the pharmaceutical industry as well as my contacts in the field give me enough experience to notice fear-mongerers and s***-stirrers.
 
rxstudent13 said:
People who do residency have to defer their loans for one year. The interest accrues. By the time they start paying off their loans, they end up owing another $100,000 on top of what they took out AND how much they would have owed had they started working right away.
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Note for all future pre-pharms, don't take student loans from a loan shark where your interest rate is 100% and the consequence for default is cement shoes! :laugh:
 
Just remember, any advice you read now will automatically be out of date by the time you graduate pharmacy school.

When I started school, residencies were plentiful, jobs were plentiful (sign on bonuses! in California! wowzers!).... 4 years + 1 year of application cycle later: it's a big pile of horse ****.

So if you're reading that so-and-so's roommate got 1-2 job offers and everything is still kind of okay if you relocate, just throw it out the window already, 4-5 years is a long time.
 
confettiflyer said:
Just remember, any advice you read now will automatically be out of date by the time you graduate pharmacy school.

When I started school, residencies were plentiful, jobs were plentiful (sign on bonuses! in California! wowzers!).... 4 years + 1 year of application cycle later: it's a big pile of horse ****.

So if you're reading that so-and-so's roommate got 1-2 job offers and everything is still kind of okay if you relocate, just throw it out the window already, 4-5 years is a long time.
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That might be the only truly useful piece of advice in this whole thread :laugh:
 
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chemguy79 said:
You really don't know much about student loan repayment, do you? Unless the interest rate is insane or the person is defaulting on their loans, that is impossible. Blatant exaggeration such as this makes one question the rest of the content in your posts on the board.
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I'm not exaggerating. My professor who has a PharmD. and MBA told that to my class. If you do a residency, you have to default your loans for one year. By the time you start paying off your loans, you'll end up owing $100,000 more than those who started paying off their loans right after graduation.

By the way, Am Care jobs are next to non-existent unless you're willing to work for free. I've met plenty of pharmacists who did a residency in Am Care and couldn't even land an Am Care job. I'm talking about ones who graduated from UCSF.
 
confettiflyer said:
Just remember, any advice you read now will automatically be out of date by the time you graduate pharmacy school.

When I started school, residencies were plentiful, jobs were plentiful (sign on bonuses! in California! wowzers!).... 4 years + 1 year of application cycle later: it's a big pile of horse ****.

So if you're reading that so-and-so's roommate got 1-2 job offers and everything is still kind of okay if you relocate, just throw it out the window already, 4-5 years is a long time.
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LOL, yeah, but if we think of it as a cycle of horse **** creation, then in 4-5 years, it'll be as good as it was in 2007/2008.
 
rxstudent13 said:
I'm not exaggerating. My professor who has a PharmD. and MBA told that to my class. If you do a residency, you have to default your loans for one year. By the time you start paying off your loans, you'll end up owing $100,000 more than those who started paying off their loans right after graduation.

By the way, Am Care jobs are next to non-existent unless you're willing to work for free. I've met plenty of pharmacists who did a residency in Am Care and couldn't even land an Am Care job. I'm talking about ones who graduated from UCSF.
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I think that this is the point where we disagree. What do you mean that you "have to default on your loans for one year"? You have the ability to defer for 6 months, you can get issued a forebearance from the loan company for an additional 6+ months or you have the ability to change your payment rates so that your loan repayment scale is larger towards the end of your loan period.

My point of contention is that you do not NEED to default on your loans by purusing a residency. If you choose to default on a loan, YES, you are going to pay more, even $100K potentially. However, it is not necessary that one defaults on a loan if they choose to do a residency.
 
chemguy79 said:
I think that this is the point where we disagree. What do you mean that you "have to default on your loans for one year"? You have the ability to defer for 6 months, you can get issued a forebearance from the loan company for an additional 6+ months or you have the ability to change your payment rates so that your loan repayment scale is larger towards the end of your loan period.

My point of contention is that you do not NEED to default on your loans by purusing a residency. If you choose to default on a loan, YES, you are going to pay more, even $100K potentially. However, it is not necessary that one defaults on a loan if they choose to do a residency.
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It be extremely difficult to not defer or default a loan during residency. Hospitals pay pharmacist residents dirt cheap! With a $40,000 stipend for the year, how is possible to pay back heavy loans that will cost four figures each month while paying taxes and living expenses at the same time? Every single resident that I met at my school does not plan on paying back their loans until after residency. Because how can you pay back money if you're not making money? It's just not possible. They all know they're taking a huge monetary hit by going into residency. They all know they're sinking further into debt. They all know that they will be owing thousands of dollars more than pharmacists who go to work right after they graduate. I never heard of a resident paying loans right after graduation and doing residency at the same time. The idea of that is extremely absurd.
 
rxstudent13 said:
It be extremely difficult to not defer or default a loan during residency. Hospitals pay pharmacist residents dirt cheap! With a $40,000 stipend for the year, how is possible to pay back heavy loans that will cost four figures each month while paying taxes and living expenses at the same time? Every single resident that I met at my school does not plan on paying back their loans until after residency. Because how can you pay back money if you're not making money? It's just not possible. They all know they're taking a huge monetary hit by going into residency. They all know they're sinking further into debt. They all know that they will be owing thousands of dollars more than pharmacists who go to work right after they graduate. I never heard of a resident paying loans right after graduation and doing residency at the same time. The idea of that is extremely absurd.
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Maybe a resident can drop by and set us straight, but I think you are full of it. You don't even start making payments until six months after graduation. If you can't imagine make payments on a resident's income (dirt cheap?), perhaps you need better money management skills. I don't think it's uncommon to do so.

And it's called deferring, not defaulting. They are different things. The only part that you are correct on is that they are worse off financially then someone who goes straight into the workforce. It's all part of the sacrifice of doing a residency.
 
I'm not deferring my loans. It depends on how much you've taken out and how much time you're taking to pay them off. 40k isn't a ton you're right, but it's not like I'll be living in a box. If you're smart about it 40k isn't a terrible transition from making next to nothing...and I'm certainly not going to "sinking further into debt" by having a paycheck larger than my current one
 
rxstudent13 said:
It be extremely difficult to not defer or default a loan during residency. Hospitals pay pharmacist residents dirt cheap! With a $40,000 stipend for the year, how is possible to pay back heavy loans that will cost four figures each month while paying taxes and living expenses at the same time? Every single resident that I met at my school does not plan on paying back their loans until after residency. Because how can you pay back money if you're not making money? It's just not possible. They all know they're taking a huge monetary hit by going into residency. They all know they're sinking further into debt. They all know that they will be owing thousands of dollars more than pharmacists who go to work right after they graduate. I never heard of a resident paying loans right after graduation and doing residency at the same time. The idea of that is extremely absurd.
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The idea of DEFAULTING on your loans DUE TO PURSUING A RESIDENCY is EXTREMELY ABSURD! Are you SERIOUS? Lord knows, what types of students did they accept to pharmacy school four years ago?!?!?!?!?!!? Yet, they say that the applicant pool is weaker ...

I'm paying back a large amount of loans from undergrad and graduate school on an income slightly more than what a resident makes and I'm doing quite well.
 
chemguy79 said:
The idea of DEFAULTING on your loans DUE TO PURSUING A RESIDENCY is EXTREMELY ABSURD! Are you SERIOUS? Lord knows, what types of students did they accept to pharmacy school four years ago?!?!?!?!?!!? Yet, they say that the applicant pool is weaker ...

I'm paying back a large amount of loans from undergrad and graduate school on an income slightly more than what a resident makes and I'm doing quite well.
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Tell us how you really feel. :laugh:
 
owlegrad said:
Tell us how you really feel. :laugh:
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*grin* I swear, some of the "logic" from "pharmacy students" makes me wonder why I didn't pursue this path immediately out of undergrad 7 years ago.

To be perfectly honest, I was worried that my 3.3 undergrad GPA wasn't going to hold up in the application process. *wistful sigh* CAREER FAIL! To think, I could have been a fear mongerer telling everyone about how good the career was in the "good 'ol days."
 
rxstudent13 said:
It be extremely difficult to not defer or default a loan during residency. Hospitals pay pharmacist residents dirt cheap! With a $40,000 stipend for the year, how is possible to pay back heavy loans that will cost four figures each month while paying taxes and living expenses at the same time? Every single resident that I met at my school does not plan on paying back their loans until after residency. Because how can you pay back money if you're not making money? It's just not possible. They all know they're taking a huge monetary hit by going into residency. They all know they're sinking further into debt. They all know that they will be owing thousands of dollars more than pharmacists who go to work right after they graduate. I never heard of a resident paying loans right after graduation and doing residency at the same time. The idea of that is extremely absurd.
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With income-based repayment, you will pay on average $350-400/month while completing your residency (after your 6-month grace period). The less you make (or if you have a family), the lower your payment.
 
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rxstudent13 said:
It be extremely difficult to not defer or default a loan during residency. Hospitals pay pharmacist residents dirt cheap! With a $40,000 stipend for the year, how is possible to pay back heavy loans that will cost four figures each month while paying taxes and living expenses at the same time? Every single resident that I met at my school does not plan on paying back their loans until after residency. Because how can you pay back money if you're not making money? It's just not possible. They all know they're taking a huge monetary hit by going into residency. They all know they're sinking further into debt. They all know that they will be owing thousands of dollars more than pharmacists who go to work right after they graduate. I never heard of a resident paying loans right after graduation and doing residency at the same time. The idea of that is extremely absurd.
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IBR. Done.

Unless you have all private loans, then you're basically f*cked.

Do you even know what you're talking about? The terminology and level of understanding in your posts reveal much about your lack of knowledge. Kinda made my day, I was looking for a good laugh. :luck:
 
confettiflyer said:
IBR. Done.

Unless you have all private loans, then you're basically f*cked.

Do you even know what you're talking about? The terminology and level of understanding in your posts reveal much about your lack of knowledge. Kinda made my day, I was looking for a good laugh. :luck:
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I heart this post. :love:

I just calculated my IBR and it's about $155 per month. Seems low, but whatever. It's going to be affordable, that's the bottom line. No need to "default" during residency and certainly not going to end up owing 100K more because I did a residency. Some people have no grasp of reality.
 
Passion4Sci said:
LOL, yeah, but if we think of it as a cycle of horse **** creation, then in 4-5 years, it'll be as good as it was in 2007/2008.
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Wha..?? Are you kidding me? This must be a joke right because it's pretty obvious that things will only get even worse year by year. How the hell are things going to get back to as good as in 2007/2008 with as many grads being pumped out?? Man you are dreaming something that will NEVER happen! :laugh:
 
Passion4Sci said:
Rxstudent & Somatic are just the new breed of trolls. Seems as soon as two or three are banned, two or three pop right back up offering "advice."
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Dude I can't wait till you actually get out into the real world and see what the situation is really like while having student loans to deal with. It amazes me to see how ignorant some people are!
 
All of you are idiots. No body knows what will happen tomorrow. You can die from car accident the moment I type this message. So stop predicting the future and start studying for your classes.
 
Can we quit feeding the trolls please? I think you're gonna give Somatic diabetes at this rate. :D
 
Somatic said:
Wha..?? Are you kidding me? This must be a joke right because it's pretty obvious that things will only get even worse year by year. How the hell are things going to get back to as good as in 2007/2008 with as many grads being pumped out?? Man you are dreaming something that will NEVER happen! :laugh:
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That's true, things only get worse, never better.
 
I can't help but repost my previous post: "All of you are idiots. No body knows what will happen tomorrow. You can die from car accident the moment I type this message. So stop predicting the future and start studying for your classes."
 
Hopefully things improve when I'm done and looking for work
 
VeeSee said:
Hopefully things improve when I'm done and looking for work
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And how is that going to happen when way more graduates than needed are being pumped out?
 
5minutes said:
I can't help but repost my previous post: "All of you are idiots. No body knows what will happen tomorrow. You can die from car accident the moment I type this message. So stop predicting the future and start studying for your classes."
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And, heck, we could be dead right now, or in the Matrix! The possibilities are endless!
 
5minutes said:
Possibilities are not endless. There are only 2. You either die tomorrow, or you don't. Take my words.
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This whole thing is made up and we're brains in a vat - There's another one for ya.

And there's dying, but not being dead. Brain death =/= death, amirite?

Ugh, religion bothers me.
 
Passion4Sci said:
This whole thing is made up and we're brains in a vat - There's another one for ya.

And there's dying, but not being dead. Brain death =/= death, amirite?

Ugh, religion bothers me.
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It is still only 2 possibilities, you either die or live. Dying is not dead, so you still live. It is so simple and you don't get it.

I am not surprised that religion bothers you.
 
Passion4Sci said:
This whole thing is made up and we're brains in a vat - There's another one for ya.

And there's dying, but not being dead. Brain death =/= death, amirite?

Ugh, religion bothers me.
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Wait, I missed what this had to do with religion.
 
There's a third possibility: die today. It's distinctly different from either of the other possibilities.
 
owlegrad said:
Thanks for clearing that up.
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there's a certain naivete to his posts, can't quite put my finger on it, there's (more often than not) a strange disconnect between his posts and reality. it's weird because it takes some time to pick up on it.
 
confettiflyer said:
there's a certain naivete to his posts, can't quite put my finger on it, there's (more often than not) a strange disconnect between his posts and reality. it's weird because it takes some time to pick up on it.
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Because there is a deep meaning behind every post that I posted. If you just read over it one time, you won't get it. But because you take the time and analyze it, you can at some point figure it out. But you may not be able to fully comprehend it. Not until it happens. Just wait.
 
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