Pharmacy School or Law School?

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spyder45

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Hey guys, I was actually planning on going into pharmacy school at first but then I am getting second thoughts because people have thought of pharmacy as a boring job and since there are so many pharmacists graduating now, there will be less jobs available. So I am also considering if law school should be suitable for me. But then after doing my research, I have found that is alot more stressful and hardwork, more competitive to get into, and graduates are also finding difficulty in finding jobs.

I was hoping you guys can answer the following questions. Which of the two has:

1) More stress involved and with more workload
2) The starting income/average income you will make later on and the time it would take to pay off your debts.
3) More jobs available in the future and easy to get a job after graduation?
5) Better job security and have a better chance of keeping your job?

Since the deadline to apply is soon, I just wanted your opinion on why you chose pharmacy over law schools which can relate to both US and Canada.

Thanks!!

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You need to mention WHAT KIND of lawyer you are considering. There are many different kinds of lawyers and the pay ranges for them are very different. For example if you were OJ Sampson's lawyer you make millions. LOL... One thing good about law over pharmacy is that some lawyers make millions of dollars. While pharmacists have a salary cap. I would say 99.99999% of pharmacist make between 90K to 150K a year.

I chose pharmacy over law b/c English is my second language. You need perfect English and a huge vocabulary to become a lawyer. My little sister score perfect on the verbal section of the SAT and GRE. So she chose law, but I didn't so I chose pharmacy. LOL...
 
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1) More stress involved and with more workload
2) The starting income/average income you will make later on and the time it would take to pay off your debts.
3) More jobs available in the future and easy to get a job after graduation?
5) Better job security and have a better chance of keeping your job?
1) Law by far. Especially if you work for a firm. You had better enjoy long hours and tight deadlines. Things are a little better for government jobs.
2) There are too many factors in this. The average pharmacist makes more then the average lawyer coming out of school. They both leave with similar debt. However, the few lucky ones in law who enter big law will have a higher starting salary and have huge potential to earn big $$$, bu these are the best of the best students. I believe average salary evens out between the two over time. Both seem to even out around 90-110k.
3) Many here will tell you the sky is falling for pharmacy etc. However, it is much worse for law school graduates. Many (as much as 30-50%) of law school graduates can't find work in the field of law. If you graduate for a top 14 school your odds are good. However, out of the 200 law schools in the country many students struggle to find competitive work.
4) Wheres 4?
5) Pharmacist again. There will be a need for both profession in the future. However, the field of law have taken huge hits in the last 10 years, and with many more graduates being pumped out every year things are getting much worse. Pharmacy is kind of at the begaining of what has happened to Law. I would not be surprised if similar situations happen to the field of pharmacy.
 
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You need to mention WHAT KIND of lawyer you are considering. There are many different kinds of lawyers and the pay ranges for them are very different. For example if you were OJ Sampson's lawyer you make millions. LOL... One thing good about law over pharmacy is that some lawyers make millions of dollars. While pharmacists have a salary cap.
The opposite end of the spectrum is true as well. Some students in law graduate and are only able to find work doing doc. review for 15-20 $ an hr.
 
I think you just have to decide on what you want to do in life.

There's a PharmD/JD program at USC. Just a thought.
 
I heard the legal market is extremely saturated with unemployed and underemployed attorneys right now, but of course that may depend on the specific field you want to go into. Definitely post your question on a law school forum and read articles for more info.
 
:laugh: I prefer the LSAT over the PCAT. Then again I haven't taken all the classes covered on the PCAT.

Yuuuuck. I took one of Tarryn's LSAC prep test things, that was pure torture. Well, not the RC part. But the LR... yuuuuuuuck.

I got a 163 and she was like, LOL TIER 3 SCHOOL FOR UUUUU.


It was sad :(
 
Yuuuuck. I took one of Tarryn's LSAC prep test things, that was pure torture. Well, not the RC part. But the LR... yuuuuuuuck.

I got a 163 and she was like, LOL TIER 3 SCHOOL FOR UUUUU.


It was sad :(
Dude 163 on a dry run is pure pwnage. The ones who rock a 170+ spend months on it.
My first dry test was a 154 I think. My second was 154 my third 6 months later still no studying was a 159. So :p to you.
A 163 is at the 88.5 Percentile.
http://www.alpha-score.com/resources/lsat-score-conversion/
with 150k+ tests administered per year you did dayum good son.
 
Dude 163 on a dry run is pure pwnage. The ones who rock a 170+ spend months on it.
My first dry test was a 154 I think. My second was 154 my third 6 months later still no studying was a 159. So :p to you.
A 163 is at the 88.5 Percentile.
http://www.alpha-score.com/resources/lsat-score-conversion/
with 150k+ tests administered per year you did dayum good son.

an 88.5 percentile score will be barely good enough for top 100 schools. Without a 170+, you're not even gonna touch the T30 which are really the only ones worth attending w/o amazing scholarships and such. During my wife's cycle, people were getting dinged from UMinn, BC/BU, UIUC and stuff with high 160s (Esp. schools like WUSTL that are "splitter friendly"). I bet this coming cycle would be heinous. Eventually it's gonna be 170 medians and 25ths are going to be 167/168 for anything near the top.

It wasn't completely dry, because I'd been helping her practice for a really long time. I'd never sat down to do a timed one myself until then but I had familiarity with all of the components.

I guess in her 175 land, anything in the 160s is penny-ante crap. LOL X:

I should give her a PCAT and see how she does. Muuuuhahahahha!
 
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an 88.5 percentile score will be barely good enough for top 100 schools. Without a 170+, you're not even gonna touch the T30 which are really the only ones worth attending w/o amazing scholarships and such. During my wife's cycle, people were getting dinged from UMinn, BC/BU, UIUC and stuff with high 160s (Esp. schools like WUSTL that are "splitter friendly"). I bet this coming cycle would be heinous. Eventually it's gonna be 170 medians and 25ths are going to be 167/168 for anything near the top.

It wasn't completely dry, because I'd been helping her practice for a really long time. I'd never sat down to do a timed one myself until then but I had familiarity with all of the components.

I guess in her 175 land, anything in the 160s is penny-ante crap. LOL X:

I should give her a PCAT and see how she does. Muuuuhahahahha!
Nah a 163 with a decent GPA could get you into the lower end of T1.
170 as a median only appears at the T10 schools if not T 6 schools.
http://www.top-law-schools.com/rankings.html
UNM is at 66 and the median LSAT is like a 154!!!!;) Cha ching I can get money from them with my 159 cold testing.
 
Nah a 163 with a decent GPA could get you into the lower end of T1.
170 as a median only appears at the T10 schools if not T 6 schools.
http://www.top-law-schools.com/rankings.html
UNM is at 66 and the median LSAT is like a 154!!!!;) Cha ching I can get money from them with my 159 cold testing.

I know they're not that high now... we'll see in a few years. When my wife interviewed for Northwestern, her interviewer told her that when she got into NU, the median LSAT was like 158. It's only a matter of time before it takes a 170 to even kiss the top 20 schools.
 
(using my girlfriend's name to post this reply)

I am finishing law school at a top 10 school. I would recommend that you stick to pharmacy. Here's why:

Based on your questions, you seem more interested in the lifestyle/remunerative aspects of a career. Law is a field that you probably won't enjoy if you aren't interested in it for intrinsic reasons. If you didn't grow up dreaming about being a lawyer, it's hard for me to believe that you would enjoy it just as a "job." If you have the skill set for pharmacy, stick to it. The market is better. These days, the majority of law schools seem to be charging tuition as if they offered the same post-graduation employment opportunities that the very top schools do. If you can't get into one of the top 14 schools or secure a full ride at a good school in the first or second tiers, I don't think it makes economic sense to go. Don't go to a third or fourth tier school, period. Quite frankly, the field is saturated like never before. Whereas our aging population seems to suggest an increasing need for pharmacists, there is no such predictable trend in law. The overall health of the economy has a major impact on the legal market, and in the past few years, major firms have engaged in widespread layoffs, salary decreases, and hiring freezes. It is simply not a healthy market, and I fear that a growing number of law graduates will never end up practicing law (or paying off their loans, for that matter). Even three years from now, the opportunities for anyone who is not at a top school are probably not sufficient to justifiy the extreme cost of going. If you don't already have a fairly specific idea of what kind of (realistic) legal career you'd pursue, you will go to law school with limited direction, and you'll already be behind many of your peers.

There are a plethora of people writing about the problems in the legal market right now. I suggest reading all of these and browsing through the comments to some of the posts.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704866204575224350917718446.html

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/10/how-...s-does-it-take-to-discourage-one-law-student/

http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/04/19...ay-is-like-sub-prime-mortgage-market-in-2006/

http://temporaryattorney.blogspot.com/
 
(using my girlfriend's name to post this reply)

I am finishing law school at a top 10 school. I would recommend that you stick to pharmacy. Here's why:

Based on your questions, you seem more interested in the lifestyle/remunerative aspects of a career. Law is a field that you probably won't enjoy if you aren't interested in it for intrinsic reasons. If you didn't grow up dreaming about being a lawyer, it's hard for me to believe that you would enjoy it just as a "job." If you have the skill set for pharmacy, stick to it. The market is better. These days, the majority of law schools seem to be charging tuition as if they offered the same post-graduation employment opportunities that the very top schools do. If you can't get into one of the top 14 schools or secure a full ride at a good school in the first or second tiers, I don't think it makes economic sense to go. Don't go to a third or fourth tier school, period. Quite frankly, the field is saturated like never before. Whereas our aging population seems to suggest an increasing need for pharmacists, there is no such predictable trend in law. The overall health of the economy has a major impact on the legal market, and in the past few years, major firms have engaged in widespread layoffs, salary decreases, and hiring freezes. It is simply not a healthy market, and I fear that a growing number of law graduates will never end up practicing law (or paying off their loans, for that matter). Even three years from now, the opportunities for anyone who is not at a top school are probably not sufficient to justifiy the extreme cost of going. If you don't already have a fairly specific idea of what kind of (realistic) legal career you'd pursue, you will go to law school with limited direction, and you'll already be behind many of your peers.

There are a plethora of people writing about the problems in the legal market right now. I suggest reading all of these and browsing through the comments to some of the posts.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704866204575224350917718446.html

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/10/how-...s-does-it-take-to-discourage-one-law-student/

http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/04/19...ay-is-like-sub-prime-mortgage-market-in-2006/

http://temporaryattorney.blogspot.com/

I just read all those links. I had no idea it was THAT bad. I know nothing about law school, but always assumed there was a million different jobs you could do with a law degree. Funny vid too. I feel so depressed after reading that. The sky is falling in every profession. I think I might decide not to work at all.
 
C'mon, man. Don't tell me pharmacy school's thinned your skin. ;)

I think you missed an earlier post made by Farmacist2011. I think idiot is a huge understatement for him. He has the habit of talking down on people as being "less intelligent/smart" or "undeserving", to shortly term it up. Which is usually based on their standardized test scores as per posted by the SDN forumer. But I'll stop there as this thread isn't about him. Just a highlight, in case he crosses into my barn.


Back to spyder45, I'll suggest you also try to spread out your options beyond pharmacy & law. You just might end up find something more lucrative for you than the two. Well, I'd assume it would be safe to say law is obviously out of that (lucrative) spotlight, job wise.

There is nothing wrong with adding more eggs to your basket to see which one fits in the best.

And "basket" here means what you are expecting from a profession; financial stability, job security, or even for the fun of obtaining the degree. Though I haven't seen the latter happen before...but who knows. It's one crazy world we live in after all:D
 
I know they're not that high now... we'll see in a few years. When my wife interviewed for Northwestern, her interviewer told her that when she got into NU, the median LSAT was like 158. It's only a matter of time before it takes a 170 to even kiss the top 20 schools.
:laugh: The interviewer is on that crack pipe. Give me evidence as proof. Actually the LSAT medians have not moved all that much over the years. There is a TLS thread where they covered the medians over this last cycle. Out of the top 14 a few went up, even a few went down:eek:, but most stayed the same.

You're an idiot.
That was my respose too. Then I edited it because I felt bad.:smuggrin:
 
If you didn't grow up dreaming about being a lawyer, it's hard for me to believe that you would enjoy it just as a "job."
I agree with much of what you said, aside from the quoted. If you grew up wanting nothing then to be a lawyer, I find that troubling. How would a person know that law is for them? Watching movies such as A Few Good Men or Legally Blond? As you know nothing in the media is an acurate protrayle of what a lawyer actually does. To say you should grow up wanting to be a lawyer is a bit stretching it. I believe one should make the decision in college after actually seeing what their skill sets are and after gaining a grasp of what the profession actually entails as well as the consequences of the decision they are about to make(as you know COA is approacing 200k, if not passed, by many schools over three years). Then again thats just my opinion.:D:thumbup:
Good post BTW glad to see interdiciplianry posting.
 
Depends where you would want to practice too. I know in my state a new governor is coming in on the 4th and is proposing big state cuts so jobs will go down and seeing as working for the state attorneys or feds is a big part of law that is something to consider. Just as in Pharmacy now you have to have more than just a JD to stand out. My brother graduated in May with a JD and has been working as a temp with a firm but is finding a hard time trying to find people that want to hire full time. The reason he believes he has the temp job now is because he dualed and got his MBA same time as JD. Also sitting here writing this a Circuit Judge is over my shoulder telling me how the market is saturated like some others have mentioned.

Salary wise a Pharmacist stays pretty consistent with no major changes up or down. A lawyer can expect a wide range of salary options but depending on who you work for some of the benefits you receive that don't show up on the paycheck are nice like debt forgiveness i.e. if you give a certain amount of time to the government they'll waive the rest of the debt that you have accumulated. Or if you work in a big private practice you'll make $$$. However both take a lot of time to accumulate and you must stay consistent.

And as stated A Few Good Men and Legally Blonde are not the reasons to become a lawyer just like House and Scrubs are not reasons to go into the medical field. Sounds like your kinda confused my advice take a year off and shadow both heavy and see which ones you really want to do. Pharm and JD are very expensive to be wavering going in. You'd be better off shadowing many types of both and figuring out for sure what you want. Both are to difficult if you're not fully invested.

Good luck! (end rant)
 
just like House and Scrubs are not reasons to go into the medical field.
WHAT!!!!!! All my dreams are shadowed.:scared: You mean I really don't get to hang out with Olivia Wilde?:(

Good post.:thumbup:
 
WHAT!!!!!! All my dreams are shadowed.:scared: You mean I really don't get to hang out with Olivia Wilde?:(

Good post.:thumbup:

Oh not for all of us. You want here # ? And I'll throw in Jesse Spencer's # for free haha
 
I just read all those links. I had no idea it was THAT bad. I know nothing about law school, but always assumed there was a million different jobs you could do with a law degree. Funny vid too. I feel so depressed after reading that. The sky is falling in every profession. I think I might decide not to work at all.

Don't be so dramatic. Work hard at whatever you decide to do. Things will work out.
 
The interviewer is on that crack pipe. Give me evidence as proof. Actually the LSAT medians have not moved all that much over the years. There is a TLS thread where they covered the medians over this last cycle. Out of the top 14 a few went up, even a few went down:eek:, but most stayed the same.
LSATCompression2009.jpg



Our entering class's median LSAT (as measured by percentile) has climbed from the 14th highest among the nation's top law schools to 4th highest. And the middle range of LSAT scores—the 25th to 75th percentiles—has risen and narrowed, from 159–166 to 166–172.

Pretty clear that over the last 10 years, all 3 "measurements" of the LSAT (25, 75th, median) have increase *dramatically* and her interviewer was certainly not "smoking the crack pipe."
 
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LSATCompression2009.jpg





Pretty clear that over the last 10 years, all 3 "measurements" of the LSAT (25, 75th, median) have increase *dramatically* and her interviewer was certainly not "smoking the crack pipe."
We can never know what the interviewer is doing in her free time. So the pipe may be accurate.:D

But I concede that the percentiles have gone up.

I wonder though if they are using todays %tiles to apply to past percentiles. Where the average LSAT of the past was lower then it is today. I still find it hard to believe that NW a T14 since inception USnews rankings could have an averege LSAT around the 80%tile.
 
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I would look into PA school. It quick (relatively) and you get the benefit of actually working with patients as well as prescribing, surgery, etc. Good wage. In demand. No med school loans, or malpractice insurance. I think pharm is going the way of law school as far as saturation is concerned. I am looking into going to PA school after I graduate pharm school (im in the middle of it, so it I can't really just drop out-- $$ reasoning).
 
Yeah I hear that even while getting a 95 percentile on the LSAT, it's still hard to get into a top school even with a high GPA. They are very selective.
 
Yeah I hear that even while getting a 95 percentile on the LSAT, it's still hard to get into a top school even with a high GPA. They are very selective.
To get into the top 6 schools you need about the 98-99%ile. To get into the top 3 you need to have great grades, great LSAT, as well as something to push you over the edge. Thats why I claim that P4S is married to a genius.:D
 
To get into the top 6 schools you need about the 98-99%ile. To get into the top 3 you need to have great grades, great LSAT, as well as something to push you over the edge. Thats why I claim that P4S is married to a genius.:D

She had the military veteran status behind her as well. But yeah, with her LSAT, a GPA over 4.00 on LSDAS scale, a list of academic accolades a mile long and a targeted personal statement, AND two targeted LoRs it'd have been difficult for Stanford to say no, but they definitely could have.

I won't say that in order to be a successful attorney that you absolutely must graduate somewhere in the top 14 (and that line is blurring with every cycle, apparently). But if you stray too far out of the tier 1 (top 50 schools) without receiving a lot of $$ and being perfectly OK with your school's geography, it's a tough business.

She has talked a lot about her first year though and how a surprising number of her fellow students didn't score nearly as well as she did on the LSAT and still got in (We're talking mid 160s...) so sometimes, you just never freaking know. Why did Stanford say yes but UPenn say no? Why did she get cold shouldered at CCN? Things make no sense in law admissions. By contrast, pharmacy admissions is a god damn dream come true. LOL. I'd never put myself through the law admissions process. Ever.
 
:laugh: Really? I like the fact that law schools don't require you to interview(at least most don't). Plus everyone gives fee waivers. Plus some schools pay for your visit on ASW/ASD. The only thing that would drag would be doing "Why X" for some schools.

I'm thinking Penn "Yeild Protected" her.
 
I spend lots and lots of time contemplating who I hate more.

Lawyers. Cops. Politicians. Pitt.

Pitt invariably wins...but do you really want to go into a career that puts you in the same relative category as Pitt?

The answer should be "no." I'd think, anyway...
 
:laugh: Really? I like the fact that law schools don't require you to interview(at least most don't). Plus everyone gives fee waivers. Plus some schools pay for your visit on ASW/ASD. The only thing that would drag would be doing "Why X" for some schools.

I'm thinking Penn "Yeild Protected" her.

I had never heard of that. Interesting.
 
There are a lot of "drags" for the process. "WHY X" is just a little bit of the annoyance. But people get annoyed at different things, so what pisses me off about the process, she was more or less OK with.

I don't think UPenn would YP her. I am not entirely sure that top 10 schools even engage in YP... and if they had YP'd her, Cornell should have too but they didn't. She was totally YP'd at everywhere she applied underneath the top 20 though. I think she was hoping for a UC Davis acceptance with $$ just so she could have one. She was very visibly upset when they WL'd her (which we surmise was to see if she'd write LOCI and do all that crap).

Add writing LOCIs to reasons why I ****ing hate the law school process.
 
Conclusions (feel free to tear these apart)
- MVP are indeed the worst YPing schools.
- Berkeley is known for its holistic admissions.
- You don't need any softs to get into Harvard, if you've got the numbers.
- Among CCN, Chicago is the most YPing, followed by CLS, and NYU doesn't YP at all.
http://www.top-law-schools.com/archives/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=96231

Of course these are the observations of a poster.
However, I have heard of Penn YP'ing quite often on TLS.
If she had the numbers to get into HYS then there is a good chance she got Yp'ed.
 
Eh, I don't ****ing trust TLS as far as I can throw most of those people.

Sure would explain the odd dings/WLs at those schools for her though except for NYU, since they apparently don't YP.
 
I had never heard of that. Interesting.
Okay maybe this will help on the explanation.
http://www.lsac.org/LSACResources/Publications/2010OG/lsac4342.pdf
Look at 170-174 range with a 3.75+ Gpa. Most T14 school would love this applicants. 27 applied only 4 accepted.
Look at 175-180 with 3.5-3.74 gpa. These stats could get you into the top of the T14 and $$ at lower T14. 3 applied 0 accepted.
The sweet spot you want to be in is 165-169 with a GPA between 3.25-3.74. 368 applied 309 accepted. Thats an 84% acceptance rate:eek:.
Funny thing is that is right around there medians as well. LSAT is 164 or 165 and gpa is 3.58-3.6 i believe.

The reasoning for this is US News. No other field takes these rankings more serious. Also guess what, Yield has an effect on the rankings scoring system. The higher the yield(matriculated student vs. accepted students) the higher the score.
Eh, I don't ****ing trust TLS as far as I can throw most of those people.

Sure would explain the odd dings/WLs at those schools for her though except for NYU, since they apparently don't YP.
:smuggrin:
 
Indeed - Tarryn was explaining the whole yield process to me when she started getting fee waivers from every school with an ABA accreditation. I was like, why do they send these things? Obviously they KNOW with her numbers she's not even going to entertain, for a split second, going to their school... It struck me, they want to have her apply so they can YP her and ding her, thereby increasing the # of apps to # of admits, making their selectivity better.

I certainly would think it could work in the opposite direction too, where really highly ranked schools dredge the low to mid 150s in hopes of getting those people to apply to their school just so they can ding them and increase their ratings. It's all a despicable process if you ask me.

I will never complain about pharmacy school being hard though. Compared to her 1L workload, my first term was a walk through a beautiful, luscious, awesome park filled to the brim with nymphs and booze.
 
Come on. You know you want deal with the socratic method.:D
 
She has talked a lot about her first year though and how a surprising number of her fellow students didn't score nearly as well as she did on the LSAT and still got in (We're talking mid 160s...) so sometimes, you just never freaking know. Why did Stanford say yes but UPenn say no? Why did she get cold shouldered at CCN? Things make no sense in law admissions. By contrast, pharmacy admissions is a god damn dream come true. LOL. I'd never put myself through the law admissions process. Ever.

If you score in the mid 160s and got into a top 14 school then you must just have very good connections. I heard Harvard accept students if they have parents who are alumni. That's why top schools accept people with lower stats.
 
Yuuuuck. I took one of Tarryn's LSAC prep test things, that was pure torture. Well, not the RC part. But the LR... yuuuuuuuck.

I got a 163 and she was like, LOL TIER 3 SCHOOL FOR UUUUU.


It was sad :(

LOL...I took the practice LSAT just to see how I would do too and I got a 155. :rolleyes: My little sister got a 172 and she was making fun of me for it too. :( I know my English SUCKS!
 
If you score in the mid 160s and got into a top 14 school then you must just have very good connections. I heard Harvard accept students if they have parents who are alumni. That's why top schools accept people with lower stats.

There are a few reasons why. Don't forget the awesome URM bonus.
 
There are a few reasons why. Don't forget the awesome URM bonus.

Oh yeah...how can I forget that!!! LOL...I know Asians are OVER represented minorities in med school, pharm school, dental school, and all other health professions...we are also over represented in undergraduate admissions...but I am not sure about law. Since English is our second language, Asians might be URM in law...not sure though. Most of the people in your wife's class is Causasian right?
 
Oh yeah...how can I forget that!!! LOL...I know Asians are OVER represented minorities in med school, pharm school, dental school, and all other health professions...we are also over represented in undergraduate admissions...but I am not sure about law. Since English is our second language, Asians might be URM in law...not sure though. Most of the people in your wife's class is Causasian right?


Asian is an ORM in law... Mexicans and AA is basically the only boost.
 
Asian is an ORM in law... Mexicans and AA is basically the only boost.

Damn and I thought we had an advantage for a second there! :(

Oh tell your wife congrats again on getting into Stanford! Stanford and Harvard are the best of the best! Hopfully she can become a famous lawyer one day!
 
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