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Are you required to do a residency for hospital pharmacy employment? What is the advantage of doing a residency?
PharmD Residency
- Thread starter Heyyyyy
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A one year pharmacy practice residency is recommended but not required for employment as a hospital staff pharmacist. The advantage of doing a pharmacy practice residency (if you intend to become a hospital staff pharmacist) is to make you a more "attractive candidate" for employment. It looks good on your CV. If you want to be a clinical pharmacist, residency is required, and you can also do a second year residency in a particular specialty (drug info, geriatrics, etc)
Residency Info from ASHP
Residency Info from ASHP
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I personally feel that pharmacy residency has no benefit. Pharmacist is a profession about providing drugs to people and not clinical stuff. If someone wanted to go clinical, they should have tried harder to become a Medical Doctor. Anyways, no real benefit according to some of my buddies.. You do pretty mcuh the same thing as all other hospital pharmacist and they call it a residency. Stupid I think and I think it is way off the scope of pharmacy practice.....
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I'm kind of unsure about the role of the clinical pharmacist as well. It seems like the pathophysiology and diagnosing of illness is what the docs are trained to do. My naive understanding is that clinical pharmacists would assist in the choice of drug therapy for patients. However, unless the pharmacists have the same access to the patients and the same level of understanding that the docs do, how can they be expected to make that contribution? Maybe in cerain circumstances (anti-coagulation, diabetes, blood-pressure) they can have the access and understanding it would take, but I don't know how great of an unmet service this provides.
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I think "clinical pharmacists" not only have access to patient medical records, but can order lab tests to obtain the values needed to "dose" a particular drug (pharmacokinetics). So, not only are clinical pharmacists involved in choice of drug therapy, but on the monitoring (and adjusting) of drug therapy, especially for "tough" cases like for certain pediatric patients.
It really depends on the hospital (size, budget, etc). Sometimes they have dedicated staff pharmacists who do the medication order entry, and verification stuff (among many other duties), and dedicated clinical pharmacists who do what I mentioned earlier. That's usually at the bigger, regional or university hospitals. Sometimes these bigger hospitals have specialized clinical pharmacists (cardiology, oncology, pediatric, etc). Smaller hospitals might have staff pharmacists who also have clinical duties. I think GravyRPH is one such pharmacist.
Maybe GravyRPH can shed some light on the clinical vs hospital staff pharmacist distinction? 😉
It really depends on the hospital (size, budget, etc). Sometimes they have dedicated staff pharmacists who do the medication order entry, and verification stuff (among many other duties), and dedicated clinical pharmacists who do what I mentioned earlier. That's usually at the bigger, regional or university hospitals. Sometimes these bigger hospitals have specialized clinical pharmacists (cardiology, oncology, pediatric, etc). Smaller hospitals might have staff pharmacists who also have clinical duties. I think GravyRPH is one such pharmacist.
Maybe GravyRPH can shed some light on the clinical vs hospital staff pharmacist distinction? 😉
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What??! I guess I should skip my entire 2nd year of pharmacy school because all that "therapeutic disease state management" clinical stuff is outside my "scope of practice" as a pharmacist. Save me a year of tuition 😉 I'll go back to learning how to count by fives and affixing a label squarely on a container....
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I know I always see the clinical pharmacist at my hospital looking in patients' charts and writing in them, so she must be doing something 🙂
I know she doesn't do any dispensing at all -- strictly clinical stuff.
I know she doesn't do any dispensing at all -- strictly clinical stuff.
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A true clinical pharmacist would have no dispensing duties at all. Their typical day would be arriving before the doctors and reveiwing charts to look for errors, interactions, dosing problems, overmedication, anticipate questions, etc. They would then be available during rounds for questions and direction. E.g. a doctor may ask you to dose their patient with Gent appropriately. This would involve ordering the medication and any lab values they will need. They at some point will review their protocols that were instituted already and adjust them if needed. Commonly they will have a place in the chart where they can record their observations or suggestions. They may make calls to doctors throughout the day if problems or question of their own arise. They are basically a consultant for the doctor regarding a patients medication use. Hence the name. 🙂 You've seen doctors order surgical consults, psych consults, etc. This is a mandatory daily pharmacist consultation, whether they like it or not. 😛
I am not a true clinical pharmacist. I am about 30% clinical and 70% dispensing because we are a small hospital and they can't afford to pay for just a clinical pharmacist, plus, I'm not sure there is enough patients here to fill 40 hours worth of work. But there is definitely problems with the way doctors order certain medications, and a review is often needed! It is scary when doctors try to dose gentamicin themselves, when they do, I still monitor it myself and end up sending my recommendations to them stating how screwed up their dosing is. They always end up switching it to my rec. and usually next time I get and order "Gent per pharmacy". 😉
Kunsan is sadly mistaken. Pharmacy very much has a clinical component. There are those pharamcists who chose to ignore it and may end up in a courtroom one day, but there are some excellent pharmacists who improve their patient's health daily. How big of an impact are we? *shrug* Not sure, but their is definitely some, and even if its a little its still worth it. (and you make good money too, tri....😛 )
I am not a true clinical pharmacist. I am about 30% clinical and 70% dispensing because we are a small hospital and they can't afford to pay for just a clinical pharmacist, plus, I'm not sure there is enough patients here to fill 40 hours worth of work. But there is definitely problems with the way doctors order certain medications, and a review is often needed! It is scary when doctors try to dose gentamicin themselves, when they do, I still monitor it myself and end up sending my recommendations to them stating how screwed up their dosing is. They always end up switching it to my rec. and usually next time I get and order "Gent per pharmacy". 😉
Kunsan is sadly mistaken. Pharmacy very much has a clinical component. There are those pharamcists who chose to ignore it and may end up in a courtroom one day, but there are some excellent pharmacists who improve their patient's health daily. How big of an impact are we? *shrug* Not sure, but their is definitely some, and even if its a little its still worth it. (and you make good money too, tri....😛 )
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GravyRPH,
Wow, your job sounds very interesting. I hope to one day find a position similar to the one you have. 👍 How hard was it to get into your position? I think I remember you saying that you never did a residency, so what did you have to do to qualify for that type of position? Also, what type of hours do you work typically?
And in your opinion, is it better to have a position where you have clinical duties, yet still dispense meds. as opposed to just having clinical duties? Just curious on how you feel about this?
Wow, your job sounds very interesting. I hope to one day find a position similar to the one you have. 👍 How hard was it to get into your position? I think I remember you saying that you never did a residency, so what did you have to do to qualify for that type of position? Also, what type of hours do you work typically?
And in your opinion, is it better to have a position where you have clinical duties, yet still dispense meds. as opposed to just having clinical duties? Just curious on how you feel about this?
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To get my job you needed just one important quality:
1. A working cardiovascular system.
They were in desperate need of a pharmacist because it's a relatively small town (about 45,000 people) and the shortage (that someone said doesn't exist) has made certain regions very open for pharmacists to pick and choose what they want.
I normally work four 10 hour shifts Tuesday through Friday(0630 to 1700), and get Saturday, Sunday, Monday off. I do work one or two Saturday or Sunday's a month, but the weekend shift is usually only 730 to 1300.
I feel I know I won't get cut during budget woes if I am also a dispenser too. If I was purely clinical and they had to cut somewhere it wouldnt be the dispensing pharmacist that gets the boot. 😉 Besides, I think the dispensing part of my job helps me in the clinical part. I also work a weekend a month at a retail pharmacy mostly because it keeps me up to date with what's going on in the non-hospital world and, again, helps me with the clinical work.
1. A working cardiovascular system.
They were in desperate need of a pharmacist because it's a relatively small town (about 45,000 people) and the shortage (that someone said doesn't exist) has made certain regions very open for pharmacists to pick and choose what they want.
I normally work four 10 hour shifts Tuesday through Friday(0630 to 1700), and get Saturday, Sunday, Monday off. I do work one or two Saturday or Sunday's a month, but the weekend shift is usually only 730 to 1300.
I feel I know I won't get cut during budget woes if I am also a dispenser too. If I was purely clinical and they had to cut somewhere it wouldnt be the dispensing pharmacist that gets the boot. 😉 Besides, I think the dispensing part of my job helps me in the clinical part. I also work a weekend a month at a retail pharmacy mostly because it keeps me up to date with what's going on in the non-hospital world and, again, helps me with the clinical work.
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listen to gravy he knows his stuff..
yo gravy i got some more questions for you..
what is the typical career track for a hospital pharmacist.. i'm hypothesiszing..
staff/clinical pharmacist.....manager/clinical corridinator...director of pharm....then???
is a clinical pharmacist more likely to be promoted or a staff or does it not matter? do most pharmacists eventually move to manegement and then director? or atleast have ambitions to?
yo gravy i got some more questions for you..
what is the typical career track for a hospital pharmacist.. i'm hypothesiszing..
staff/clinical pharmacist.....manager/clinical corridinator...director of pharm....then???
is a clinical pharmacist more likely to be promoted or a staff or does it not matter? do most pharmacists eventually move to manegement and then director? or atleast have ambitions to?
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Well, I have no experience with the really large hospitals so I cannot comment on how their hierarchy is setup, but I have worked at several medium/relatively large sized hospitals and the top dog for pharmacy is the director. I suppose at some point the director could be eligible for the hospital administrator job but they would need an MBA or some such qualification to even be considered.
If you were applying for a director position I believe a clinical pharmacist would have a bit of an edge on a staff pharmacist all else being equal. But normally it would come down to who was better qualified, had the better attitude, was most helpful, etc., whether than if you were clinical or dispensing.
That being said, its really not that hard to get a director position if you're willing to relocate or move to a smaller community. I am constantly getting calls from recruiters offering me or anyone I know a job as a director all over the place. I also see the ads in the last several pages of the pharmacy journals, all offering director positions. So, its really up to you if you want to be in charge or not. I choose not to be. I was offered the director position where I am currently working but refused because I choose not to take that extra responsibility. Family is my number one priority right now; maybe later in life I'll reconsider.
*shrug*
maybe not. 🙂
If you were applying for a director position I believe a clinical pharmacist would have a bit of an edge on a staff pharmacist all else being equal. But normally it would come down to who was better qualified, had the better attitude, was most helpful, etc., whether than if you were clinical or dispensing.
That being said, its really not that hard to get a director position if you're willing to relocate or move to a smaller community. I am constantly getting calls from recruiters offering me or anyone I know a job as a director all over the place. I also see the ads in the last several pages of the pharmacy journals, all offering director positions. So, its really up to you if you want to be in charge or not. I choose not to be. I was offered the director position where I am currently working but refused because I choose not to take that extra responsibility. Family is my number one priority right now; maybe later in life I'll reconsider.
*shrug*
maybe not. 🙂
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If anyone out there is interested in pharmacy residencies and also interested in pediatrics, consider doing a pharmacy practice residency at a pediatric institution. Some are as good as specialty pediatric residencies and give you the option of doing a specialty fellowship outside of pediatrics if you want to further specialize (at least a few years ago, most specialty residencies or fellowships required a pharmacy practice residency first). An especially good route if you are interested in doing a fellowship in nutrition.
You don't have to do a residency to practice clinical pharmacy, especially in pediatrics, as many many dispensing issues in pediatrics (and other areas of pharmacy, no doubt) have overriding clinical implications. For example, do I recommend mixing a dopamine drip for a child in PICU in D5W or 1/2 NS and at what concentration, since the child is fluid restricted and probably has dilutional hyponatremia and veins are probably shot???? ..... you get the picture.
Basically in all situations when you are advising physicians, nurses, patients, on the best way to formulate, administer, or in any way alter someone's drug therapy, then you become the patient's "clinical pharmacist". This occurs in whatever setting you practice. Clinical pharmacy, imho, is doing the footwork to know your patients so that you are always in a position to advise the best possible drug therapy for that patient. Any good "dispensing" , "staff" (hate that term) or " whatever " pharmacist practices clinical pharmacy when he or she looks out for the patient. And I realize all of you know this.
You don't have to do a residency to practice clinical pharmacy, especially in pediatrics, as many many dispensing issues in pediatrics (and other areas of pharmacy, no doubt) have overriding clinical implications. For example, do I recommend mixing a dopamine drip for a child in PICU in D5W or 1/2 NS and at what concentration, since the child is fluid restricted and probably has dilutional hyponatremia and veins are probably shot???? ..... you get the picture.
Basically in all situations when you are advising physicians, nurses, patients, on the best way to formulate, administer, or in any way alter someone's drug therapy, then you become the patient's "clinical pharmacist". This occurs in whatever setting you practice. Clinical pharmacy, imho, is doing the footwork to know your patients so that you are always in a position to advise the best possible drug therapy for that patient. Any good "dispensing" , "staff" (hate that term) or " whatever " pharmacist practices clinical pharmacy when he or she looks out for the patient. And I realize all of you know this.
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I am a clinical staff pharmacist at a large teaching hospital. As you can see, the other replies were from 2003. There are some people (even fellow pharmacists) who think that there is no point in doing a pharmacy residency- you will never become a doctor that way, so just go to medical school. Those people are likely to be the ones who went into pharmacy mainly for the money, or b/c they didn't get into med school. I did a residency and am glad I did- I went into my position, which is a clinical/staffing position with much more confidence than if I had gone into it straight from pharmacy school. Giving presentations, writing progress notes in charts, rounding, talking to attending physicians, monitoring kinetics, taking pharmacy students, etc etc- are all things I have done before, many times, and do not hesitate to do it now. I see some new grads being asked to give presentations or what not and it makes them nervous. I pretty much know what to do and where to help without being asked. The benefit of the pharmacist is not directly seen- however, for every $1 put into having a clinical pharmacist, the return is $16 (learned from pharm econ class). Doctors are human, and we provide a much safer environment for our patients. I see a med errors and intervene on a daily basis. My nurses know me and come to me for help and with their questions. The docs know where to hunt me down when they need something or have a question. You would be surprised some of the questions they have asked me- and it's not b/c anyone is "stupid". Everyone working in healthcare- including physicians- are human, and pharmacists provide more safety in care for our patients.
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So I understand that residency can help you get a better job after school. But would hospital prefer a pharmacist who worked in a hospital setting and has let's say 10 years of experience or a PharmD with a residency completed a month ago? Doesn't residency just give your career a little boost, but once you have a few years of work under your belt it is not as important?
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A lot of clinical pharmacists are on the units that they cover. They also do rounds with doctors (more so in larger academic instutions) They have very good access to the patient and records.
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absolutely nothing.
any pharmacist, mail order, long term care, retail, hospital etc....if your job encompasses the review of medication order, the drugs ordered in said order, and the dispensing of medications to patients.....hate to break it to you....you're "clinical"
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I have to agree with Tussionex. All pharmacists who take the time to review patient medication histories to provide the best outcomes for patients are clinical pharmacists. The environment does not dictate how one chooses to practice 🙂.
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so there's no point of doing a clinical residency? we might as well just get our pharmD and apply for a job in a hospital?
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Depends on what your goals are. If you want to specialize or go on rounds...I would do a residency. If you are happy with staffing being a large part of your position, then a residency is not necessary.
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ahhh...i'm still getting a handle on what residencies are. clinical = PGY1. i plan on specializing (so PGY2).
i see now, thank you 🙂
i see now, thank you 🙂
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well, that's your choice.
it wasn't mine.
maybe it's by virtue of the time of day that i work [second shift], but i "staff", i'm "clinical"...i do, well, everything b/c there are only 1-2 pharmacists working.
i think residencies are a decent idea, but i think it will be a long time before they are taken seriously outside the pharmacy world. we currently have a student who is getting his post-midyear applications together; he has been telling the MD's on the floor of his aspirations and the typical response is "i didn't know pharmacists DID residencies!" the general feeling is that pharmacist are trying to be something that they are not.
i certainly don't think they are bad for the profession....anything that advances a person's knowledge is a good thing! but i am, and probably always will be, anti-residency. i think you can work hard and keep current with information and be just as clinically sound as someone who spent a year in residency.
the term "clinical" pharmacy chaps my a$$! unless we're working in government, academia, informatics, we are ALL clinical. like i said one time a "clinical" pharmacist colleague bemoaned having to "staff": "you can't really monitor that vanco level that you spent all day calculating on one patient if you don't have pharmacists to competently enter the order, check dose and interactions and supervise the proper compounding thereof."
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I don't get the whole residency thing. It sounds like bs. A PharmD [SIZE=-1]≠[/SIZE] MD. Therefore, what's the point. MDs go through residencies so that they can specialize in a particular type of medicine. Until they give titles like: Oncologist Pharmacist, Pediatrician Pharmacist, or Gynecologist Pharmacist, I'm staying away.
It's not like you get a master's degree after you're finished. You don't get anything except to say that you did a residency.
The experience argument is defective. A residency is worth X number of years of experience. Let me just substitute an arbitrary number for X, and bamn!, your residency has that much value.
There's a "shortage" of pharmacists right now. The most logical approach would be to get a job once you graduate, unless you want to go into something that's very specific. Even if you want to specialize in an area that needs additional training, why do you have to lose one to two years of your earning potential to learn? You're a licensed pharmacist for crying out loud. A $35,000 stipend < $100,000 salary. I can understand a paycut, but that stipend stuff is like a lowball, constellation prize.
One of the pharmacists from work told me a story about her friend. She said that her friend decided to do a residency, because she was tired of doing the same ol' **** every day at Target. That's right MountainPharmD, she gave up her job at Target!
So once finishes her residency, she starts working at a Coumadin clinic. I don't know if you'll believe this or not..., but guess what her complaint is now, she's still has to do the same ol' **** every day.
The pharmacist's friend was looking for more diversity and fulfillment, but she just ended up regretting her decision. I'm not 100% sure, but in the end, I think she wanted to go back to Target.
My other pharmacist's friend left his residency after three months, because he was tired of working every weekend and couldn't get off when he needed to.
The whole residency system is flawed. The only slave work I'm willing to do consists of a 40hr work week plus overtime.
It's not like you get a master's degree after you're finished. You don't get anything except to say that you did a residency.
The experience argument is defective. A residency is worth X number of years of experience. Let me just substitute an arbitrary number for X, and bamn!, your residency has that much value.
There's a "shortage" of pharmacists right now. The most logical approach would be to get a job once you graduate, unless you want to go into something that's very specific. Even if you want to specialize in an area that needs additional training, why do you have to lose one to two years of your earning potential to learn? You're a licensed pharmacist for crying out loud. A $35,000 stipend < $100,000 salary. I can understand a paycut, but that stipend stuff is like a lowball, constellation prize.
One of the pharmacists from work told me a story about her friend. She said that her friend decided to do a residency, because she was tired of doing the same ol' **** every day at Target. That's right MountainPharmD, she gave up her job at Target!
So once finishes her residency, she starts working at a Coumadin clinic. I don't know if you'll believe this or not..., but guess what her complaint is now, she's still has to do the same ol' **** every day.
The pharmacist's friend was looking for more diversity and fulfillment, but she just ended up regretting her decision. I'm not 100% sure, but in the end, I think she wanted to go back to Target.
My other pharmacist's friend left his residency after three months, because he was tired of working every weekend and couldn't get off when he needed to.
The whole residency system is flawed. The only slave work I'm willing to do consists of a 40hr work week plus overtime.
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I agree with you PharmDStudent. Im in my first year and we have panels of pharmacists that come in and talk about their jobs. While I think it's great that there is such diversity in pharmacy, I don't like how they shove residency down our throats every chance they get.
At our orientation, CVS sponsored our lunch. Then we had one of the UF faculty/staff give a speech about how retail is great and we should not be ashamed if we go into retail after graduation. I thought that was really flawed because it seems as if in pharmacy school many people have the mentality that retail pharmacists can't cut it out there in clinical pharmacy. And perhaps some can't. But I believe most people make a choice about what career they want to do. I personally am leaning more toward retail because it would combine my business degree and pharmacy degree together. I'm just a first year student, I'll probably change my mind 3092339 times before I graduate though.
At our orientation, CVS sponsored our lunch. Then we had one of the UF faculty/staff give a speech about how retail is great and we should not be ashamed if we go into retail after graduation. I thought that was really flawed because it seems as if in pharmacy school many people have the mentality that retail pharmacists can't cut it out there in clinical pharmacy. And perhaps some can't. But I believe most people make a choice about what career they want to do. I personally am leaning more toward retail because it would combine my business degree and pharmacy degree together. I'm just a first year student, I'll probably change my mind 3092339 times before I graduate though.
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i would take someone with an MBA or MHA over a residency any day....b/c i think that anyone willing to spend 6 years in school and then work for essentially slave-labor rates [i saw a posting for a CT hospital that was paying its residents $16.50 an hour] and work ridiculous hours, take abuse from staff, and be subservient for another year needs their head examined.
i have had friend who loved their residencies, some who hated them, and one who was so miserable she would call me crying at least once a week. meanwhile, i'm sitting peacefully in my hospital, making TWICE what she makes and not having to answer to /take abuse from any preceptor, or residency director, just my boss, you know, like a real job.... who's the *****?
i hate the way schools shove residencies down students' throats....our latest crop of rotation students are all "rah-rah-residency" only to have their hopes dashed when the docs and nurses look at them and say "i didnt know pharmacists DID residencies"
you CAN be "clinical" without a residency.......i will put myself and my non-residency partner up against the residency-completed folks any day!
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[i copied the 3 posts above mine from another thread and pasted them onto this thread because they are relevant to this topic]
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I don't know why people here are so against residency, acting like it's the worst path to go. Have you guys ever considered that there's people out there who are in interested in specific areas of medicine (like cancer treatment or cardiology)?? And that retail may be boring in their opinion?
No one is forcing pharmacists to do residencies and it's not meant for everyone. Also, the stipend of a resident is a bit low, but if you compare it with a MD graduate then its actually better because pharm residents typically don't work as many hours and make around ($30-40K/yr) just like them.
And the fact that they are "wasting" two years to specialize only to receive lower pay shows that they passionate in what they are doing. Rather than someone who does retail for the money 🙄
No one is forcing pharmacists to do residencies and it's not meant for everyone. Also, the stipend of a resident is a bit low, but if you compare it with a MD graduate then its actually better because pharm residents typically don't work as many hours and make around ($30-40K/yr) just like them.
And the fact that they are "wasting" two years to specialize only to receive lower pay shows that they passionate in what they are doing. Rather than someone who does retail for the money 🙄
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Residency is not for everyone. I can totally understand that. I am giving up >$50k to work 60-70 hours a week to get projects and articles piled up on me, plus I get to be put on the spot by attending physicians who have random drug questions, and I get to sit in lots of administrative and PNT meetings to talk about stuff I may or may not care about.
Why did I choose to do a residency? Because I did not find satisfaction in retail - not that I don't think it is a good career for some to pursue, but the business/insurance/customer interaction just wasn't up my alley as I hoped it would be. I knew I wouldn't make it much past the sign on bonus term before getting burnt out.
I also knew that I would feel very uneasy trying to work in a big teaching hospital where so much is on the line (in terms of patient safety) - and I hope that by doing a residency I will be well trained and able to function on my own. But that's me - other people love retail just like I enjoy hospital. So try to respect the choices of your fellow students and pharmacists -neither path is for everyone- and if it was our profession would be in big trouble.
Why do I love my residency? I get the opportunity to learn things I would NEVER get exposed to without it. I am constantly building relationships with physicians/nurses/students, and I am becoming more and more confident in my recommendations, and I feel respected by the doctors - if they quit putting me on the spot that could mean they don't care for my opinion.
Many doctors comment that they hate when a pharmacist doesn't round with them, because then someone in the satellite is always calling them to say they put an order in wrong. Our hospital is kind of unique. All of our pharmacists round on a service every day, plus they have staffing responsibilities. It makes for a busy day, but the doctors realize that we are a valuable asset to the team. Next year I plan to stay there and take on a service of my own - which is pretty exciting after a year of residency training. But I feel like I will be ready - because I did a residency.
Why did I choose to do a residency? Because I did not find satisfaction in retail - not that I don't think it is a good career for some to pursue, but the business/insurance/customer interaction just wasn't up my alley as I hoped it would be. I knew I wouldn't make it much past the sign on bonus term before getting burnt out.
I also knew that I would feel very uneasy trying to work in a big teaching hospital where so much is on the line (in terms of patient safety) - and I hope that by doing a residency I will be well trained and able to function on my own. But that's me - other people love retail just like I enjoy hospital. So try to respect the choices of your fellow students and pharmacists -neither path is for everyone- and if it was our profession would be in big trouble.
Why do I love my residency? I get the opportunity to learn things I would NEVER get exposed to without it. I am constantly building relationships with physicians/nurses/students, and I am becoming more and more confident in my recommendations, and I feel respected by the doctors - if they quit putting me on the spot that could mean they don't care for my opinion.
Many doctors comment that they hate when a pharmacist doesn't round with them, because then someone in the satellite is always calling them to say they put an order in wrong. Our hospital is kind of unique. All of our pharmacists round on a service every day, plus they have staffing responsibilities. It makes for a busy day, but the doctors realize that we are a valuable asset to the team. Next year I plan to stay there and take on a service of my own - which is pretty exciting after a year of residency training. But I feel like I will be ready - because I did a residency.
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I personally feel that pharmacy residency has no benefit. Pharmacist is a profession about providing drugs to people and not clinical stuff. If someone wanted to go clinical, they should have tried harder to become a Medical Doctor. Anyways, no real benefit according to some of my buddies.. You do pretty mcuh the same thing as all other hospital pharmacist and they call it a residency. Stupid I think and I think it is way off the scope of pharmacy practice.....
personally speaking, I don't agree with your opinion! Pharmacist should not only provide drugs to the patient, but also provide pharmaceutical care to the patient.
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I graduate pharmacy school a year from now and I'm already losing sleep over this issue. I've worked at two different retail chains, and I just don't think it's for me. I am tempted to do a hospital residency, because I love what I've seen on my "clinical" rotations. However, great clinical experience can also be gained from smaller community hospitals that allow all the pharmacists time on the floor doing rounds and kinetics. I'm also graduating with an MBA and am drawn towards managed care, which fuses the money side of pharmacy with the clinical side... There are 1 year residencies in managed care too... I don't know what to do. It's alot easier for half of my class who are 24, single, and their parents pay for their living expenses. I'm 31 years old with 6 figure debt, a wife and 2 kids... And yesterday a girl graduating this year showed me her offer to work for Safeway for a $30000 signing bonus (3 year commitment) and $51.00 an hour. How do I not go after the money while it's there??? ARRGGGHHH! Please lead me down the the straight path...
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Tessalon, where are you working at? It sounds really great. I'm currently undecided on residency. I have a keen interest in cardiology as well as teaching and publishing. That said, I feel that I cannot afford to do a residency that only pays about 30-40K in that I have gigantic student loans coming my way in November as well as a car payment and rent. I know many residents work weekends in retail to make ends meet but I really don't want to spend a year or two working 60-80 hours/week, that's why I became a pharmacist and not a doctor. I just know that retail is not for me, but I feel like I don't have an option.
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You always have options. You can always defer your loans if you are doing a residency and I think 40K a year is not that bad. When I was in undergrad, I made 10K a year while going to school. That 10K covered for almost everything. I wanted to take out more students, but they gave me barely enough to cover tuition. The only things I did not have to pay for were health and car insurance.
Residency is not for everybody and there are a lot of hospital positions that you can get without a residency. If you're in your 20's, then you have roughly another 40 years of working, so what's 1 extra year of getting paid less and doing a little more work so that you can have many more doors opening up for you? I keep telling myself that...1 year out of 40 years is not a lot.
Residency is not for everybody and there are a lot of hospital positions that you can get without a residency. If you're in your 20's, then you have roughly another 40 years of working, so what's 1 extra year of getting paid less and doing a little more work so that you can have many more doors opening up for you? I keep telling myself that...1 year out of 40 years is not a lot.
I did a residency and currently work in a hospital. I initially started as clinical but am doing more staff pharmacist activities because now everyone is PharmD. We have new PharmDs come aboard that do a similar job as those with residencies. It is hard to get a 'clinical' job unless you have two residencies. The bar is getting higher.
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I'm sure many of you with this dilemma feel that either way you go, you might be missing out (i.e. residency = less $$ right away vs. retail = won't prepare you for a more "clinical" position). Bottom line: MTM will eventually change retail and clinical and/or ambulatory care pharamcist positions will grow in scope and demand in the hospital and managed care setting. Just to committ to what you like and don't second guess yourself. I have an MPH in Health Services Management from UCLA and will wrap up my PharmD in May '09 from USC - plus, I have already found a bright career path with - - - - TARGET. I hope to be climbing the ladder in 3-5 years and never dispense another drug (unless I want to moonlight for extra money). Moral of the story: at the end of the day, do what's best for you and what makes YOU happy and don't worry about your career and CV - that will take care of itself. I'm male, 31, married with children and have a mortage - residency is a path I can't afford 😉
As an aside, from my experience and interactions with people in the pharmacy world, an MBA, MS or MPH is VERY valuable in most settings, but residencies do open other, more clinical doors (especially at employers like Kaiser Permanente). As long as your good and dependable, you'll always have opportunity.
As an aside, from my experience and interactions with people in the pharmacy world, an MBA, MS or MPH is VERY valuable in most settings, but residencies do open other, more clinical doors (especially at employers like Kaiser Permanente). As long as your good and dependable, you'll always have opportunity.
I am kind of late on this post, but better late than never. I think you are in a bad position. You say you are losing sleep over this decision, so I would like to give you what I believe is good advice.
In retail you can make 95-120k right out of school, depending on your location, maube a little more maybe a little less. Chances are you can bag a sign-on bonus as well (being realistic say ~10k). At your age, your decision to go to pharmacy school was probably based on this: you needed a good-paying, secure job. This is even more of a need for a man with a family than it is for most. Residents will always get paid about 30k. Any less and you couldn't live off of the money, so I think its afe to say that residencies will always pay about ~30k (plus inflation of course...). On the other hand - right NOW, the market for pharmacists (non-residents) is HOT. This WILL NOT last forever. I am a PY2, and I study finance in my spare time. I read only from the best investors, and one thing is true - bull markets are NEVER permanent. From what I have read, pharmacist wags were rising at 6% per year and are beginning to taper off to more closely match 3% (normal inflation in a solid economy - which is not what our economy is now, but you have to assume our economy will get back to normal, or you will drive yourself crazy trying to predict what will happen.) You have to look at this decision with the right priorities in mind. You have a 6 figure debt, a wife, and 2 children. Your first responsibility is to them - to provide security (financial security is one aspect of security) for them. Job satisfaction HAS to be secondary.
I understand that residencies have their appeal. What it boils down to is job satisfaction (respect, diversity in activities, and many other positive factors). But you also must consider who is exposing you to the idea of resdiencies and WHY? 2 institutions always try to sell the residency. 1 - your school, and 2 - the place offering the residency. WHY? Your school's reputation is enhanced when it's graduates have board cert. and residency experience. YOUR reputation is THEIR success as much as it is yours. The place offering the residency gets this: bonified PharmDs working at Tech wages. Actually, maybe less than tech wages when you consider that pharm. residents can work 70 hours a week (+/- 10 hours, + homework?). Right NOW, pharmacy wages are near their peak - don't miss the gravy train, man. Snatch up that high salary, get a sign-on bonus, work for a couple of years (and only at ~40 - 50 hr.s a week), pay down that debt, then think about a residency. Over that time you can ponder the decision some more, and it will be less stressful since you will have a proactive approach toward your debt, and feel less rushed about the decision. Patience is a virtue. Never make a decision in haste or out of fear.
You said, "Please lead me down the the straight path..." I got the impression that you believe that a residency would be the straight path. Maybe, maybe not. The FACT is that this is subjective. Both roles, clinical and staff, need to be filled. We have all been romanced with the valuable role the clinical pharmacist plays, but staffers are just as - if not more - important. You NEED someone to get the drugs out safely in a timely manner. Look at small, low-budget hospitals. When its crunch time, there is always a staffer left and the clinical guy gets the ax (just ask GravyRPH). Just, don't think that staff pharmacists are less important. Yes, their jobs are slighlty less glamorous, but sometimes that's the more noble route.
In retail you can make 95-120k right out of school, depending on your location, maube a little more maybe a little less. Chances are you can bag a sign-on bonus as well (being realistic say ~10k). At your age, your decision to go to pharmacy school was probably based on this: you needed a good-paying, secure job. This is even more of a need for a man with a family than it is for most. Residents will always get paid about 30k. Any less and you couldn't live off of the money, so I think its afe to say that residencies will always pay about ~30k (plus inflation of course...). On the other hand - right NOW, the market for pharmacists (non-residents) is HOT. This WILL NOT last forever. I am a PY2, and I study finance in my spare time. I read only from the best investors, and one thing is true - bull markets are NEVER permanent. From what I have read, pharmacist wags were rising at 6% per year and are beginning to taper off to more closely match 3% (normal inflation in a solid economy - which is not what our economy is now, but you have to assume our economy will get back to normal, or you will drive yourself crazy trying to predict what will happen.) You have to look at this decision with the right priorities in mind. You have a 6 figure debt, a wife, and 2 children. Your first responsibility is to them - to provide security (financial security is one aspect of security) for them. Job satisfaction HAS to be secondary.
I understand that residencies have their appeal. What it boils down to is job satisfaction (respect, diversity in activities, and many other positive factors). But you also must consider who is exposing you to the idea of resdiencies and WHY? 2 institutions always try to sell the residency. 1 - your school, and 2 - the place offering the residency. WHY? Your school's reputation is enhanced when it's graduates have board cert. and residency experience. YOUR reputation is THEIR success as much as it is yours. The place offering the residency gets this: bonified PharmDs working at Tech wages. Actually, maybe less than tech wages when you consider that pharm. residents can work 70 hours a week (+/- 10 hours, + homework?). Right NOW, pharmacy wages are near their peak - don't miss the gravy train, man. Snatch up that high salary, get a sign-on bonus, work for a couple of years (and only at ~40 - 50 hr.s a week), pay down that debt, then think about a residency. Over that time you can ponder the decision some more, and it will be less stressful since you will have a proactive approach toward your debt, and feel less rushed about the decision. Patience is a virtue. Never make a decision in haste or out of fear.
You said, "Please lead me down the the straight path..." I got the impression that you believe that a residency would be the straight path. Maybe, maybe not. The FACT is that this is subjective. Both roles, clinical and staff, need to be filled. We have all been romanced with the valuable role the clinical pharmacist plays, but staffers are just as - if not more - important. You NEED someone to get the drugs out safely in a timely manner. Look at small, low-budget hospitals. When its crunch time, there is always a staffer left and the clinical guy gets the ax (just ask GravyRPH). Just, don't think that staff pharmacists are less important. Yes, their jobs are slighlty less glamorous, but sometimes that's the more noble route.
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I must say before I experienced the clinical rotations, I was thinking same thing in the line of "what's the point of clinical pharmacist". That was because I did not know better.
When I was doing clinical rotations, I saw a lot of opportunities where a clinical pharmacist play an imperative role (i.e., dosing in special population, choosing appropriate antibiotic therapy tailored to specific institutions, educational opportunity for residents and nursing staff etc. ). Also you can give back to student pharmacist as well.
When I was doing clinical rotations, I saw a lot of opportunities where a clinical pharmacist play an imperative role (i.e., dosing in special population, choosing appropriate antibiotic therapy tailored to specific institutions, educational opportunity for residents and nursing staff etc. ). Also you can give back to student pharmacist as well.
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seriously too many anti residency people here always using the monetary value issue here...
no residency isn't going to make a MD/DO you're in wrong profession if u were looking for those letters
it appears most of you guys just want that 6 digit figure thats great, good for you there is no point in telling other people who lurk this thread why its the worst damn thing ever which it isn't.
it two different path, retail and hospital none if better/worse than the other ...
no residency isn't going to make a MD/DO you're in wrong profession if u were looking for those letters
it appears most of you guys just want that 6 digit figure thats great, good for you there is no point in telling other people who lurk this thread why its the worst damn thing ever which it isn't.
it two different path, retail and hospital none if better/worse than the other ...
