"Physician anesthesiologists"

[PressureSupport]

Personally, I'm pretty tired of the "Physician anesthesiologists save lives" ASA campaign. Seems to me that "physician" is redundant, as has been commented on this board before. Below I've copied part of the body of this month's newsletter from New York's state anesthesia society - Dr. Berkun goes on to link a survey that allows suggestions for a new society name to include "Physician" in the title.

NYSSA NAME CHANGE TO INCLUDE "PHYSICIAN" IN THE TITLE

[...]

One of the obstacles that makes it difficult for us to lobby on behalf of our patients and our specialty is the fact that 40 percent of legislators and 60 percent of the general public do not know that anesthesiologists are physicians. It is very difficult to convey our message that the practice of anesthesiology is safer when led by a physician when the majority of the population and our legislators do not see the difference between a physician anesthesiologist and a nurse anesthetist. We need to clearly state who we are and to identify our organization as an association of physicians. I strongly believe that by adding just one word to the name of our society, changing it to Society of Physician Anesthesiologists of New York State, or another version that includes "Physician," we will define ourselves as physicians, clarify that anesthesiology is the practice of medicine, and distinguish our specialty from nurse anesthetists in the eyes of the public and our legislators.

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[Consigliere]

"60 percent of the general public do not know that anesthesiologists are physicians..."


I think that's a very optimistic percentage there, PS.

 

[rakotomazoto]

60 percent of the general public do not know that anesthesiologists are physicians.

My personal data suggests that it's 90% plus.

 

[zero0]

Kinda annoying how so much of our livelihood in not just anesthesiology but all of medicine depends on the opinions of stupid people

 

[deleted162650]

My personal data suggests that it's 90% plus.

I think there's a large regional difference. Out West it's rare that patients don't address me as doc right off the bat.

 

[Consigliere]

I think there's a large regional difference. Out West it's rare that patients don't address me as doc right off the bat.

Where is this nirvana of which you speak?

 

[deleted162650]

Where is this nirvana of which you speak?

CA. I am in a more upscale/educated locale so that probably helps as well but even my last gig which was in a decidedly more blue collar area most patients knew we were Docs.

 

[GravelRider]

If you want to be called a physician then act like a physician. The vast majority of anesthesiologists are perfectly content signing charts and collecting checks...and maybe occasionally using an ultrasound to guide a needle to a target (a procedure they probably watched on YouTube 5 minutes prior). I've had junior partners at my job "brag" to me that they haven't picked up an anesthesia related article in almost 10 years.

I know there are some terrific anesthesiologists out there who care, are smart, and are dedicated...are true physicians. However, we didn't get into this mess as a profession because of them. The fact that you have to justify your existence to patients, administration, nurses, and crnas didn't happen by accident.

I understand the need to lobby legislators and control the message better, but there is also a need to call out anesthesiologists who have milked the system for all it is worth and have forgotten how to be a physician in the meantime.

 

[Fieldofdreams]

So not a doctor but I do work in healthcare. I once had this conversation with a guy whose cousin was in med school, applying to match in anesthesiology:

Him: hey, so cousin isn't going to be a doctor anymore.

Me: what, really? (I was shocked and worried, was hoping all was well)

Him: yeah, now he's going to be an anesthesiologist.

Me: Oh, well actually an anesthesiologist is a doctor. It's a doctor who specializes in doing anesthesia so your cousin is still going to be a doctor.

Him: oh OK. That makes sense now.

 

[Consigliere]

If you want to be called a physician then act like a physician.(I do) The vast majority of anesthesiologists are perfectly content signing charts and collecting checks (as opposed to say, sitting on a stool charting vitals and collecting a check?)...and maybe occasionally using an ultrasound to guide a needle to a target (a procedure they probably watched on YouTube 5 minutes prior) (it ain't rocket science, pal. No need to do a regional fellowship). I've had junior partners at my job "brag" to me that they haven't picked up an anesthesia related article in almost 10 years. (agree that that is unacceptable)

I know there are some terrific anesthesiologists out there who care, are smart, and are dedicated...are true physicians. However, we didn't get into this mess as a profession because of them. The fact that you have to justify your existence to patients, administration, nurses, and crnas didn't happen by accident (I justify my existence to no man).

I understand the need to lobby legislators and control the message better, but there is also a need to call out anesthesiologists who have milked the system for all it is worth and have forgotten how to be a physician in the meantime (good luck with that as these cats are all senior partners holding the reins of power).[/QUOTE]

 

[pgg]

Kinda annoying how so much of our livelihood in not just anesthesiology but all of medicine depends on the opinions of stupid people

If not for self-inflicted disease, we'd have NO livelihood.

So let's all drink to stupid people!

 

[pgg]

If you want to be called a physician then act like a physician. The vast majority of anesthesiologists are perfectly content signing charts and collecting checks...and maybe occasionally using an ultrasound to guide a needle to a target (a procedure they probably watched on YouTube 5 minutes prior). I've had junior partners at my job "brag" to me that they haven't picked up an anesthesia related article in almost 10 years.

I know there are some terrific anesthesiologists out there who care, are smart, and are dedicated...are true physicians. However, we didn't get into this mess as a profession because of them. The fact that you have to justify your existence to patients, administration, nurses, and crnas didn't happen by accident.

I understand the need to lobby legislators and control the message better, but there is also a need to call out anesthesiologists who have milked the system for all it is worth and have forgotten how to be a physician in the meantime.

This is a great post.

There's more to it though. It's not just the semi-mythical lazy ACT 4:1'er who lets his CRNAs run wild and free ... or the guys who never pick up a book after residency.

Ours is a specialty that tolerates (even embraces) a nurse-like shift mentality. Mid-case coffee breaks are the norm, even if you're only a few minutes into a case. People accept relief 30 minutes before a case ends because they want to get out a bit earlier. The patient doesn't notice but the surgeon, scrub, even the periop nurse sees us as interchangeable cogs. We love our scrubs and often can't be bothered to put on a white coat before talking to patients or families (it's silly, given that noctors and RTs wear them too, but it's a symbol and that stuff matters - if you want people to treat you like a doctor). How many anesthesiologists personally postop their inpatients the next day? It's not billable so ... not many.

None of this has anything at all to do with competence or skill.

 

[zero0]

If not for self-inflicted disease, we'd have NO livelihood.

So let's all drink to stupid people!

If you can't beat 'em...

 

[leaverus]

well i think some of us are part of this problem with the public perception. how do you introduce yourself to the pt? i always say i'm dr. leaverus, not "hi, i'm bob" because first name only is how our crna's introduce themselves; so how's the average pt supposed to know the difference?

 

[ERRES2288]

well i think some of us are part of this problem with the public perception. how do you introduce yourself to the pt? i always say i'm dr. leaverus, not "hi, i'm bob" because first name only is how our crna's introduce themselves; so how's the average pt supposed to know the difference?

I was shocked to see how many anesthesiologists would just say "hi I'm bob your anesthesiologist". I couldn't understand why they weren't introducing themselves as Dr. Every other specialty I rotated with introduced themselves as doctor to the patient.

 

[Neogenesis]

I always introduce myself as Doctor to patients.

 

[No_Pain]

It felt weird as a CA-1. Now, even as a CA-3, I discovered patients are generally relieved to know this new face taking them into the OR is named "Dr. Something" (I don't even care if they remember my name)

 

[partydoc]

Lots of my co resresidents introduce themselves by their first name. I wish they wouldn't

 

[vector2]

I was shocked to see how many anesthesiologists would just say "hi I'm bob your anesthesiologist". I couldn't understand why they weren't introducing themselves as Dr. Every other specialty I rotated with introduced themselves as doctor to the patient.

I don't know where this mentality ever came from, and it really does just add to the perception that we're replaceable cogs. It's not as if you're in the ICU introducing yourself like 'hey I'm Steve from critical care' so why do it in the OR

 

[Outrigger]

I had the opposite problem. A patient wanted to know if I worked with Dr. Smith, his anesthesiologist neighbor. Mr. Smith is one of the CRNAs in our group.

 

[deleted126335]

Personally, I'm pretty tired of the "Physician anesthesiologists save lives" ASA campaign. Seems to me that "physician" is redundant, as has been commented on this board before. Below I've copied part of the body of this month's newsletter from New York's state anesthesia society - Dr. Berkun goes on to link a survey that allows suggestions for a new society name to include "Physician" in the title.

We have lost, or in the process of losing our monopoly on the term "doctor" It is not unreasonable to consider adding the term "physician" to the term anesthesiologist.


Part of the game that they play:
MDA
Nurse Anesthesiologist
Physician Anesthetist
CRNA trainees referring to themselves as "residents"


We can play too:
Physician Anesthesiologist
Anesthesia Doctor vs Anesthesia Nurse
Midlevel
Physician extender

Should we play at this level? Not sure. I have with the occasional militant CRNA. They get the message.

BTW, Don't forget http://www.asdahq.org
The American Society of Dentist Anesthesiologists

 

[Consigliere]

We have lost, or in the process of losing our monopoly on the term "doctor" It is not unreasonable to consider adding the term "physician" to the term anesthesiologist.




Should we play at this level? Not sure. I have with the occasional militant CRNA. They get the message.

I have done this in the past as well (not a problem at my current gig). I made it a point to refer to the CRNA as the "anesthesia nurse" and I could feel their blood boiling.

 

[partydoc]

I made it a point to refer to the CRNA as the "anesthesia nurse" and I could feel their blood boiling.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

We have lost, or in the process of losing our monopoly on the term "doctor" It is not unreasonable to consider adding the term "physician" to the term anesthesiologist.

👎👎👎

 

[Psai]

We have lost, or in the process of losing our monopoly on the term "doctor" It is not unreasonable to consider adding the term "physician" to the term anesthesiologist.


Part of the game that they play:
MDA
Nurse Anesthesiologist
Physician Anesthetist
CRNA trainees referring to themselves as "residents"


We can play too:
Physician Anesthesiologist
Anesthesia Doctor vs Anesthesia Nurse
Midlevel
Physician extender

Should we play at this level? Not sure. I have with the occasional militant CRNA. They get the message.

BTW, Don't forget http://www.asdahq.org
The American Society of Dentist Anesthesiologists

I'm fine with calling myself an anesthesiologist. They can be the anesthesia nurse.

 

[deleted162650]

I don't supervise, but if I did I think I'd just say "Hi, I'm Dr. Dog - your anesthesiologist, and this my lovely assistant."

 

[DrOwnage]

When I finish residency I plan on introducing myself as galactic president superstar anesthesiologist mcawesomeville. You heard it here first.

 

[Psai]

When I finish residency I plan on introducing myself as galactic president superstar anesthesiologist mcawesomeville. You heard it here first.

Then 2 years later you'll hear student nurse anesthesias introducing themselves as universal dictator ultrastar doctor of nursing anesthesiologyst

 

[deleted126335]

I have done this in the past as well (not a problem at my current gig). I made it a point to refer to the CRNA as the "anesthesia nurse" and I could feel their blood boiling.

That is exactly what I did. My phrase was "an anesthesia nurse

Serious question. How can they, or any none physician, use the term "physician" in their title, even if so flippantly as to when they introduce themselves to patients. Specifically, how is that not illegal? Isn't physician a legally protected term?

They don't. They use the term "doctor"

 

[pjl]

I love when I get questions from patients to the nurse anesthetist standing next to me asking them how it feels to have someone so young as their supervisor. My favorite answer from them was "safe"
I rarely describe crnas as anything other than "nurse anesthetist"

we have a very good group of CRNAs though, who provide very high-quality care. They call for help appropriately.

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[jthedestroyr]

I always refer to the crna as "the nurse," etc for aprn. People are lazy and dont like using the longer version, but i think it's important to emphasize nurse part in their title versus physician.

Even the lay people can grasp this huge difference between nurse and physician.

 

[deleted126335]

I always refer to the crna as "the nurse," etc for aprn. People are lazy and dont like using the longer version, but i think it's important to emphasize nurse part in their title versus physician.

Even the lay people can grasp this huge difference between nurse and physician.

Blurring the differences is an agenda of advanced practice nurses (not just CRNAs) and hospital administrators.