Physician Shadowing: Should students shadow their own physicians?

[BellusRenovatio]

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I recently had some work done at a plastic surgeon (no opinions about this please). Anyway, my surgeon is amazing and is the top female plastic/recon surgeon in my state. She is also the chief of plastics/recon. at a local hospital. I really want to ask her if she would be willing to let me shadow her in a subtle way, but I don't know if it would make our doctor-patient relationship awkward. What if she feels obligated to let me because of the loads of money I spent on her services? Or what if she doesn't feel comfortable given the privacy involved in her specialty? So, I'd like some opinions on this situation. I'd really like to shadow her, get to know her personal insight on medicine and learn anything she has to offer me but would this negatively affect our doctor-patient relationship?

 

[Web MD]

If she's really that good, you shouldn't even need shadowing experience to get accepted after having work done 👍

 

[Mast Cell]

ehh, i don't think it'll be a problem. she's the professional. the question is whether or not u'll feel weird going to her as a possible future patient after becoming closer on a more professional/academic level. i can't really see this being a problem unless ur procedure was sort of "embarrassing" for u. ...just like a woman might not wanna hang out with her GYN. idk... just ask if that's what u wanna do. what's the worst that could happen?

 

[BellusRenovatio]

ehh, i don't think it'll be a problem. she's the professional. the question is whether or not u'll feel weird going to her as a possible future patient after becoming closer on a more professional/academic level. i can't really see this being a problem unless ur procedure was sort of "embarrassing" for u. ...just like a woman might not wanna hang out with her GYN. idk... just ask if that's what u wanna do. what's the worst that could happen?

Well, I don't think there are many things more embarrassing than being naked on an operating table coming out of anesthesia but hey I guess since the two of us have already experienced that, so asking her a simple question can't hurt! Lol thanks for the advice 🙂

 

[runawayclock]

If she's really that good, you shouldn't even need shadowing experience to get accepted after having work done 👍

+1

Couldn't hurt to ask, OP.

 

[justdoit31]

I would say go ahead and ask- I shadowed my general physician several times and it didn't hamper the relationship. I still go in regularly for chronic disease check ups and annual visits and besides knowing eachother better nothing is different. We did become facebook friends when I left for medical school and occasionally talk if I want advice on something or just her checking on me.

 

[the humming sea]

To answer the second half of your question, I know tons of students who have shadowed two local plastic surgeons and loved the experience. If she is uncomfortable having students it is more likely due to her not liking shadowing rather than her not wanting students to see 'private' patients.

 

[familyaerospace]

I asked three of my doctors if I could shadow them : my PCP, my neurologist, and my plastic surgeon. The first two said absolutely not because I'm their patient and they might lose their objectivity (the neurologist helped me shadow another neurologist for a few weeks as well as a day with a nephrologist).

The last one, my plastic surgeon, is more than willing to let me shadow him periodically in the OR at one of the hospitals he works out of. It hasn't impacted our relationship very much but then we became friends via Facebook a few months after my first surgery (he made me feel guilty about not friending him, LOL, so I did) way before I shadowed him. When I'm in his office, we are as doctor-patient as we can be. When I'm in the OR (and I'm *not* the patient!), it is completely teacher-student which has included him getting very cross at me once. She might not let you be there for office hours so the patients don't get weirded out, but she might let you watch the surgery. If she does, just remember, don't touch anything blue, make sure you have your hat on, wear a mask, and wear your shoe coverings.

 

[BellusRenovatio]

I asked three of my doctors if I could shadow them : my PCP, my neurologist, and my plastic surgeon. The first two said absolutely not because I'm their patient and they might lose their objectivity (the neurologist helped me shadow another neurologist for a few weeks as well as a day with a nephrologist).

The last one, my plastic surgeon, is more than willing to let me shadow him periodically in the OR at one of the hospitals he works out of. It hasn't impacted our relationship very much but then we became friends via Facebook a few months after my first surgery (he made me feel guilty about not friending him, LOL, so I did) way before I shadowed him. When I'm in his office, we are as doctor-patient as we can be. When I'm in the OR (and I'm *not* the patient!), it is completely teacher-student which has included him getting very cross at me once. She might not let you be there for office hours so the patients don't get weirded out, but she might let you watch the surgery. If she does, just remember, don't touch anything blue, make sure you have your hat on, wear a mask, and wear your shoe coverings.

Wow, that's really great to hear! How did you go about asking him?

 

[familyaerospace]

I swear to God these are nearly my exact words

Conversation with the plastic surgeon in his office

"Dr. L, you know I'm absolutely terrified of you right?"

"Yea, though I don't know why."

"Do you remember how you said you'd do the carpal tunnel surgery when my neuro says it's time?"

"Right, I remember."

"Do you remember how I nearly flipped out on you when you did my chest revision and how I begged and pleaded with you to sedate me with stronger drugs?"

"Yes. Your family was taking bets on how many fingers I was going to lose," he flashes his hands, "I think I still have them all."

"Carpal tunnel is under a local isn't it?"

"Yes"

"So I will be awake?"

"That's generally how it goes."

"Since I'm terrified of you and you know I'm the world's biggest medical wussy, I was wondering if after I pull a few shifts in the ED, maybe 50ish hours (I'm volunteering to hopefully get over the medical phobia issue). Can I watch you perform surgery or something? I figure it might desensitize me enough that maybe I will not nearly beg for drugs as loudly. I don't want to terrify any of your other patients. And maybe... maybe... I won't try to bite you in the process."

He laughed... "I think we can work something out."

*Cut to a few months later, now I sent him an PM via Facebook since it was the weekend and I didn't have an appointment with him for a while*

"Hi Dr. L. Do you remember saying that I might be able to watch you in the OR sometime? I nearly have 50 hours in Emergency now. I can't say I'm *not* going to completely freak, but I am getting better."

"Sure, I have a tummy tuck tomorrow at DMC at 1. Try to get into the lounge at 12:30. If you can't, here is my cell number XXX-XXX-XXXX. Do you have scrubs????" (Yes, he really put a bunch of question marks down)

"No, I don't have scrubs. Do I need to buy some? Where is the lounge?"

"Lounge is right off the main lobby. Don't worry, I'll get you some scrubs! See you there!"

He was ~very~ enthusiastic. LOL! Unfortunately, I only was able to catch 15 minutes of the operation since it was delayed by like 2 hours and I had to pick up my kid. So two months later, I asked for another. I mean after all, I didn't get to see a full operation. 😀 I've now clocked over 20 hours with him and have seen part of a tummy tuck, a breast biopsy, a wrist mass extraction, 2 breast augmentations, lots of liposuction including some that was a fat transfer, part of a skin graft, and the most recent was a blepharoplasty (eye lid surgery).

I've learned two things by shadowing him that I will pass on to you.

1) Never ask a surgeon why their name is on hospital supplies.

2) If a surgeon says "Come here and look at this or else I will squirt blood on you," the correct answer is to just go over there, not "You can't possibly hit me from there." (No, he didn't actually squirt me with blood but only because the scrub tech pipped up and said "Oh yes he can! I've seen him do it!" so I decided to get closer)

 

[BellusRenovatio]

Haha that's a great story! Thanks for the info., I'm definitely going to ask her at my next appointment.

 

[SoulinNeed]

-

 

[Polka Dot]

1) Never ask a surgeon why their name is on hospital supplies.

Why is that?

 

[familyaerospace]

Why is that?

Well... I think he was having a really bad day. When I asked him, my punishment was to write the definition of tact 100 times before I was allowed back into the OR. Of course then two weeks later, and before I was officially allowed back, he told me he bought a stethoscope for me and that I didn't need to worry about the sentences.

 

[auburnO5]

Well... I think he was having a really bad day. When I asked him, my punishment was to write the definition of tact 100 times before I was allowed back into the OR. Of course then two weeks later, and before I was officially allowed back, he told me he bought a stethoscope for me and that I didn't need to worry about the sentences.

He sounds like a huge tool to me

 

[NickNaylor]

I wouldn't feel comfortable shadowing my primary care physician, but if you only saw her once (or for one case) then I don't think it would be a problem.

 

[familyaerospace]

Everyone has a bad day sometimes and that includes surgeons.

I'll tell you, I don't think I would trade my time with him in that OR for any amount of money even though I can tell you that I do not want to be a surgeon. Most of my time in the OR (so far over 20 hours) with him was spent after that incident. I've learned a lot from him, he has learned from me, and most of the time we have a great time.

 

[chman]

I say go ahead and ask. I have known my doctor for a looong time, like since I was two (family friend). Anyways, we know when to draw the line between my shadowing him and my being a patient of his. I don't find it hard to do, but then again everyone is different.

 

[FutureMD129]

Thanks for this post! I'm trying to find doctors to shadow and have been wondering the same thing. I have a pretty good relationship with my ENT of a little over a year and he's done 2 surgeries on me. I saw him last week for a post-op visit and asked if I could shadow him or his colleagues (he's in a practice of 11 docs), and he seemed a bit uncertain. He said he'd have to check with the practice manager, which isn't a huge surprise, given the HIPAA concerns and level of management oversight these days. To be honest, I was/am disappointed that he didn't seem more enthusiastic or open given that 1) I have a good relationship with him 2) have known him for a little over a year and 3) knows that I'm recently changing careers and struggling to get medical experience (both shadowing and finding a job in healthcare). To be honest, I'm quite surprised that doctors I don't know are more open to having me shadow than a doctor who knows me.

Since I'm still new to shadowing, I wonder if maybe it's taboo for doctors to let their own patients shadow them. Or it could be that this particular doc has had a bad experience with students shadowing him in the past? He never mentioned that specifically, but I know that some docs don't like students shadowing them because of such experiences.

 

[optimistic3]

I've considered this as well! I'm definitely afraid to ask because I don't want to make it awkward if they say no. I don't want to put them on the spot! They all know I'm pre-med (you tell one and then it's in your chart forever and every subsequent doctor mentions it 😛) so it'd be a dream if they just offered to have me shadow them but I'm not holding my breath for that.

 

[hmockingbird]

Now that I think about it I did shadow one of my surgeons. I was in a research summer program at his hospital and I think he suggested it. It went fine and it didn't change our relationship, though I think we were pretty friendly before that (he's one of those doctors who really likes to talk to/get to know his patients).

I also shadowed my dad. I didn't go see patients with him because he thought that could be awkward/bad form but he let me sit in on table rounds and case conferences, basically anything that wasn't direct patient care.

I like the suggestion of asking and adding "or anyone you would recommend", that way it's win/win for you and gives them an out if they're uncomfortable with it.

 

[FutureMD129]

Thanks for the suggestions! I told my ENT I'd follow up in a few weeks, so when I do contact him, I'll add the "anyone you would recommend" part. I would love to shadow one of my own doctors, especially the one I mentioned above. However, given HIPAA regulations and management oversight, I probably can't make it an absolute requirement. That said, I'm happy to shadow any doctor who lets me. 🙂

Tomorrow I'm shadowing a cardiologist and on Thursday I'm shadowing a rheumatologist, both doctors I have found from going to offices at medical buildings and telling the staff I'm a premed student who wants to shadow a doctor. I've never seen a cardiologist or rheumatologist as a patient, so I'm expecting to learn a lot tomorrow and Thursday!