Physics PhD to Medical School?

[supportedbycaffeine]

(Apologies if this has been asked previously. I've seen post about PhD --> medical school, but few specifically about physics)

I'm currently a PhD student in physics at a top 3 STEM institution in the US. My graduate work has little relevance to medicine. Without getting into the details of my motivations for wanting to switch to a career in medicine (wanting to have more of a direct impact on the world, contribute to society in a meaningful way, directly interact with patients, etc.), I am looking into the prospect of applying to medical schools after my PhD.

Would this be at all a realistic prospect? Say I use the remaining time of my PhD to take the additional bio/chem classes and study for the MCAT. I assume I would also need to gain some experience shadowing doctors/volunteering/etc (perhaps some of this could be simultaneously done during my postdoctoral work if more time is needed)? Would I have any realistic chance of getting into a good medical school, and would my background of a Physics PhD from a top 3 school help my application stand out or is it kind of irrelevant?

Any advice from those who have been in similar situations would be appreciated! I still have several years left in my PhD, so if there's anything I should be looking into/starting to do now, I welcome any advice!

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[gramnegative]

You are going to need to shadow and gain clinical experience, either paid or volunteer, for school regardless, so I'd suggest that as your first step, since that will help to determine whether you will actually like working in medicine.

 

[deleted367183]

Relative to a basic science Ph.D., especially something quantitative and self-selective like physics, you might find med school (and residency) kind of boring/un-challenging from a purely intellectual perspective (obviously the volume of material is challenging). I have never been an attending (I'm a third-year resident), so I can't say for sure whether being an attending is more intellectually stimulating than residency. So my question/advice would be sure, you can do it, but do you want to?

If you have literally years left on your Ph.D., no exaggeration, I would leave now and just go to med school, if that's what you would rather do. I can't speak for admissions committees at all, but your colleagues will 100% not care that you have a Ph.D. in physics. They certainly will not care that it was from a good program.

On the contrary, I regret not getting a Ph.D. in biochem or physics with the lab at which I was doing some research as a premed. I did not do that and went to med school instead because I thought that, at 37, I was getting too old to be competitive in a scientific career.

I don't mean to be a downer, God forbid. I just know you'll get a lot of super-encouraging responses, so I want to provide a bit of counterpoint.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

On the contrary, I regret not getting a Ph.D. in biochem or physics with the lab at which I was doing some research as a premed. I did not do that and went to med school instead because I thought that, at 37, I was getting too old to be competitive in a scientific career.

I love that breaking into academia is so hard that your your easier option was medical school.

I also agree, why not just bail now on the PhD?

 

[supportedbycaffeine]

Relative to a basic science Ph.D., especially something quantitative and self-selective like physics, you might find med school (and residency) kind of boring/un-challenging from a purely intellectual perspective (obviously the volume of material is challenging). I have never been an attending (I'm a third-year resident), so I can't say for sure whether being an attending is more intellectually stimulating than residency. So my question/advice would be sure, you can do it, but do you want to?

If you have literally years left on your Ph.D., no exaggeration, I would leave now and just go to med school, if that's what you would rather do. I can't speak for admissions committees at all, but your colleagues will 100% not care that you have a Ph.D. in physics. They certainly will not care that it was from a good program.

On the contrary, I regret not getting a Ph.D. in biochem or physics with the lab at which I was doing some research as a premed. I did not do that and went to med school instead because I thought that, at 37, I was getting too old to be competitive in a scientific career.

I don't mean to be a downer, God forbid. I just know you'll get a lot of super-encouraging responses, so I want to provide a bit of counterpoint.

I get what you mean--though, even with years left in my PhD it's still something I want to finish. I enjoy the intellectual challenge of physics research/doing a PhD. However, I definitely don't see myself becoming a physics professor or working in industry, etc. Doing the PhD right now is something I see more as a long exercise in training myself to think critically and tackle complex problems, and I'd love to bring this perspective to medicine. Basically, I'm happy to finish my PhD and then go to medical school, even if this proves to be a long route to take. However, maybe the idea of having such a disjointed career is somewhat wishful thinking, and I should just make the decision now whether or not to drop the PhD and go to medical school or stay with physics for my career...

 

[deleted367183]

Doing the PhD right now is something I see more as a long exercise in training myself to think critically and tackle complex problems, and I'd love to bring this perspective to medicine.

Medicine is 1000% not that kind of critical thinking. Just like proteins are not synthesized in the spleen! Be forewarned.

 

[supportedbycaffeine]

Medicine is 1000% not that kind of critical thinking. Just like proteins are not synthesized in the spleen! Be forewarned.

A follow-up question: Would doing a medical degree open up opportunities to doing medical research with clinical components (say, doing something in nanotechnology for medicine, biomaterials for medicine, etc.)? This was one option I was considering that surely involves the kind of critical thinking that would benefit from a physics background?

 

[deleted367183]

Well, sure, but if it were me, I would just find an MD to be my co-investigator and skip the whole medical school gig. Or, as many do, just go work for a biotech firm with basic science Ph.D. in hand.

 

[Cowabrungus]

It's been done before, so at least there's that. I think that you're well within reason to pursue the PhD to MD path, and though others have brought up concern about the horrendous amount time to do so, you're ultimately the only one capable of making that value judgement. That being said, having a PhD in physics from a top institution will likely put you into the echelons you're currently coming from when applying to medical school so long as you tick the other boxes in a commensurate way. I would definitely explore your thoughts on it more and shadow to get a better idea of fit.

For what it's worth, Dr. Jauhar, the guy who paved a path similar to what you're speaking of, thought that medicine wouldn't be the type of critical thinking that physics was (e.g. all algorithms and no nuance, simply put), but he was surprised to find it was close/in an adjacent vein. I don't know **** about that bc I'm still a med student, but I read it in one of his books. Peep the link below and maybe read some of his stuff?

Sandeep Jauhar: Physicist, Doctor, Writer | UC Berkeley Physics

Join us on March 20 in Sibley Auditorium as Sandeep Jauhar (BA '89, Ph.D. '95) talks about how his extraordinary path from condensed matter physics to med school to bestselling author started at Berkeley!Dr. Sandeep Jauhar is a cardiologist and director of the Heart Failure Program at Long...

physics.berkeley.edu

 

[gyngyn]

It is a great distinction to earn a PhD.
Your candidacy for medicine will be evaluated largely on other factors, though.

 

[Dral]

My PhD was a little bit more geared toward medicine (basically molecular biology).

I found that the PhD likely helped get me in the door for an interview, but was bit of a hinderance once I got said interviews. It didn't prevent me from landing where I wanted to end up though.

I think it sort of not mattering a ton either way is an assessment with which I can agree.

 

[Cowabrungus]

My PhD was a little bit more geared toward medicine (basically molecular biology).

I found that the PhD likely helped get me in the door for an interview, but was bit of a hinderance once I got said interviews. It didn't prevent me from landing where I wanted to end up though.

I think it sort of not mattering a ton either way is an assessment with which I can agree.

I'm curious about the details of the hinderance - I would think that the PhD would be a complete asset as long as, like I mentioned, all the other boxes were ticked appropriately. As long as commitment to medicine wasn't an issue, what did the adcoms take issue with? I ask also to inform the OP.

 

[supportedbycaffeine]

It's been done before, so at least there's that. I think that you're well within reason to pursue the PhD to MD path, and though others have brought up concern about the horrendous amount time to do so, you're ultimately the only one capable of making that value judgement. That being said, having a PhD in physics from a top institution will likely put you into the echelons you're currently coming from when applying to medical school so long as you tick the other boxes in a commensurate way. I would definitely explore your thoughts on it more and shadow to get a better idea of fit.

For what it's worth, Dr. Jauhar, the guy who paved a path similar to what you're speaking of, thought that medicine wouldn't be the type of critical thinking that physics was (e.g. all algorithms and no nuance, simply put), but he was surprised to find it was close/in an adjacent vein. I don't know **** about that bc I'm still a med student, but I read it in one of his books. Peep the link below and maybe read some of his stuff?

Sandeep Jauhar: Physicist, Doctor, Writer | UC Berkeley Physics

Join us on March 20 in Sibley Auditorium as Sandeep Jauhar (BA '89, Ph.D. '95) talks about how his extraordinary path from condensed matter physics to med school to bestselling author started at Berkeley!Dr. Sandeep Jauhar is a cardiologist and director of the Heart Failure Program at Long...

physics.berkeley.edu

Yes, definitely need to explore thoughts on this more and shadow to figure out if it's truly a good fit. Thanks for the book rec!

 

[supportedbycaffeine]

I'm curious about the details of the hinderance - I would think that the PhD would be a complete asset as long as, like I mentioned, all the other boxes were ticked appropriately. As long as commitment to medicine wasn't an issue, what did the adcoms take issue with? I ask also to inform the OP.

Also curious about this...were they skeptical of your commitment to medicine? How did you end up pitching it (having a PhD then going into medicine) in your interviews?

 

[Goro]

Also curious about this...were they skeptical of your commitment to medicine? How did you end up pitching it (having a PhD then going into medicine) in your interviews?

Whenever we see someone making a major career switch, several things cross your mind:
1) Grass is greener on the other side thinking
2) Fleeing a troubled or oversaturated profession (Law and Pharmacy come to mind)
3) Lost interest in the field, and so we worry about them bailing on Medicine too. This is especially true of people like the OP, who haven't even finished their training!
4) Are they degree collectors or professional students?

Int he OP's case, the comments "wanting to have more of a direct impact on the world, contribute to society in a meaningful way, directly interact with patients, etc." would have us ask:

"You can all do that without going to medical school. So why do you want to become a doctor?"

 

[Osminog]

Why not become a medical physicist? Seems like a much more direct avenue toward a clinical healthcare career for someone in your position.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

(Apologies if this has been asked previously. I've seen post about PhD --> medical school, but few specifically about physics)

I'm currently a PhD student in physics at a top 3 STEM institution in the US. My graduate work has little relevance to medicine. Without getting into the details of my motivations for wanting to switch to a career in medicine (wanting to have more of a direct impact on the world, contribute to society in a meaningful way, directly interact with patients, etc.), I am looking into the prospect of applying to medical schools after my PhD.

Would this be at all a realistic prospect? Say I use the remaining time of my PhD to take the additional bio/chem classes and study for the MCAT. I assume I would also need to gain some experience shadowing doctors/volunteering/etc (perhaps some of this could be simultaneously done during my postdoctoral work if more time is needed)? Would I have any realistic chance of getting into a good medical school, and would my background of a Physics PhD from a top 3 school help my application stand out or is it kind of irrelevant?

Any advice from those who have been in similar situations would be appreciated! I still have several years left in my PhD, so if there's anything I should be looking into/starting to do now, I welcome any advice!

I recently finished my PhD in July 2021 and I found that while admissions committees viewed my work positively, there were quite a few questions about WHY one would want to move from a PhD to medicine, especially if you have already spent significant time in the doctorate or were walking away from a potential good paying job (In my case, the stars aligned for me to finish my doctorate in three years and because I'd been teaching at the university level for years prior to me starting my PhD, I was promised an assistant professor, TT, role once I finished my program). You would obviously need to finish any remaining med school prereqs and you would need to get some clinical/shadowing experience but yeah, it is totally possible to jump from the PhD to medical school (I know a few other people who are or have done the same). Again, just be sure of your "Why"; and admissions committee will def. question you on this and you'll need to have a solid understanding of why you want to make the switch.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

Whenever we see someone making a major career switch, several things cross your mind:
1) Grass is greener on the other side thinking
2) Fleeing a troubled or oversaturated profession (Law and Pharmacy come to mind)
3) Lost interest in the field, and so we worry about them bailing on Medicine too. This is especially true of people like the OP, who haven't even finished their training!
4) Are they degree collectors or professional students?

Int he OP's case, the comments "wanting to have more of a direct impact on the world, contribute to society in a meaningful way, directly interact with patients, etc." would have us ask:

"You can all do that without going to medical school. So why do you want to become a doctor?"

Agreed. I had to answer questions related to all four of the points that you raised. OP needs to really think about this decision, what's being lost and gained, the time commitment, AND needs to understand that medical school academics are very different than being in a PhD. There are some aspects of medical school coursework that are downright irritating as compared to my days as a PhD student....

 

[deweystrontium]

As a current medical student past preclinical years, and a past physics major at a top STEM institution, I can personally attest to the fact that medical school is nowhere near as intellectually stimulating as learning and performing research in physics. It can be boring and rote and you'll meet a ton of people who possess this flawed mentality that the stronger you are at memorizing, the smarter and more impressive of a doctor you will be.

Furthermore, especially during clinical years, you'll meet a ton of folks who are super dogmatic and possess egos that are through the roof (surgery, for example). While I didn't attend PhD track graduate school for physics, I did have the pleasure of working with physicists during my master's degree, and they were some of the most humble, down-to-earth, and pleasant scholars I have ever been around. It can be pretty disheartening in medicine to be in an environment where so many people are at the peak of the dunning-kruger plot and where subjectivity and blind adherence to preceptors (sometimes flying completely in the face of evidence-based practices) is sometimes necessary to get by.

Also be prepared to lose most of your math skills by the time you finish the medical pathway, as there are rarely opportunities in medical school that flex that muscle.

 

[Dr Meow]

(Apologies if this has been asked previously. I've seen post about PhD --> medical school, but few specifically about physics)

I'm currently a PhD student in physics at a top 3 STEM institution in the US. My graduate work has little relevance to medicine. Without getting into the details of my motivations for wanting to switch to a career in medicine (wanting to have more of a direct impact on the world, contribute to society in a meaningful way, directly interact with patients, etc.), I am looking into the prospect of applying to medical schools after my PhD.

Would this be at all a realistic prospect? Say I use the remaining time of my PhD to take the additional bio/chem classes and study for the MCAT. I assume I would also need to gain some experience shadowing doctors/volunteering/etc (perhaps some of this could be simultaneously done during my postdoctoral work if more time is needed)? Would I have any realistic chance of getting into a good medical school, and would my background of a Physics PhD from a top 3 school help my application stand out or is it kind of irrelevant?

Any advice from those who have been in similar situations would be appreciated! I still have several years left in my PhD, so if there's anything I should be looking into/starting to do now, I welcome any advice!

Medicine barely has any thinking. It's basically just memorizing and regurgitating 10's of thousands of slides. And all thinking you do is "inside of box". In my experience in research (7 years before the start of med school in government and biotech), doctors make some of the worst researchers imaginable. They're about as un-phD like as you can imagine. The phD's make fun of the docs behind their back because they've got the imagination of a pile of rocks but the authority of priest in a church (amongst their crowd of their phD lab slaves).

When you enter med school, your phD won't help you at all. And 1 semester into med school and 8000 slides later, all that information will probably override a lot of your Physics phD knowledge. You'll just be starting over like your physics life never existed at all. 1 semester will feel like 10 years and you'll barely be able to imagine life before med school.

And don't do med school because you want to "help people" because you're not. You want to help people? Find a better way to destroy the insurance system.