PI as a med student?

[awared2]

I'm doing some clinical research this summer with a great research advisor and running my own project under him. He suggested that I list myself as the PI for this project. Very excited that he trusts me with this responsibility, but will there be any issue with journals accepting a manuscript from someone without a PhD or MD, assuming that his name and title will also be on it? It's in a competitive specialty field if that makes any difference

Is there any difference between PI and first author if I would be both?

Thanks for your advice

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[PatsyStone]

I'm doing some clinical research this summer with a great research advisor and running my own project under him. He suggested that I list myself as the PI for this project. Very excited that he trusts me with this responsibility, but will there be any issue with journals accepting a manuscript from someone without a PhD or MD, assuming that his name and title will also be on it? It's in a competitive specialty field if that makes any difference

Is there any difference between PI and first author if I would be both?

Thanks for your advice

I think you mean corresponding author, not PI (although in many situations, the PI is also the corresponding author)

Some journals will not let a med student be a corresponding author, but I've usually not had an issue in the past. In your case, you would be the first author and the corresponding author while your advisor would still be last.

 

[awared2]

I think you mean corresponding author, not PI.

Some journals will not let a med student be a corresponding author, but I've usually not had an issue in the past. In your case, you would be the first author and the corresponding author while your advisor would still be last.

On my IRB submission, he suggested that I be listed as PI. It is a minimal risk study though

 

[PatsyStone]

On my IRB submission, he suggested that I be listed as PI

That shouldn't be an issue because on the IRB submission, if you list yourself as the PI, it will ask you something like "if you are a med student or grad student, who will be your faculty advisor?"

You will be running the project, but you will still have faculty supervision

 

[operaman]

Yeah I did this a lot in med school. You'll just have to list a faculty advisor/mentor, that's all.

You may run into some journals that prefer your mentor be the corresponding author, but that's really immaterial. Even on ones where I was not the corresponding author, I still wrote all the response letters, revisions, and whatnot and just submitted them through my mentor.

 

[mmmcdowe]

It isn't a big deal, it just means that they don't have to hit submit when it is time to do renewals etc. They will be senior and likely also corresponding author on the paper. You will be first unless there is another person on the project.

 

[awared2]

Thanks for the help, I think I have my answer now. Much appreciated

 

[Elixir6]

I'm surprised you'd be allowed to do that - usually you have a to be a faculty member to be a PI whether it's on an IRB or a manuscript. Being the PI means you are responsible - I think there are legal ramifications. Maybe I'm making too big a deal of it. You can easily be the corresponding author on a manuscript though, but again usually that's the PIs role.

 

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[PatsyStone]

I would turn this down. Yes, it will make you feel important, but from a practical standpoint, it doesn't help you at all and carries risks. You will be officially and legally responsible for the conduct of the study, and potentially could be sanctioned for protocol deviations or failure to follow IRB rules. Any sanction for research misconduct has to be reported on your license applications and hospital credentialling.

You're a student, and likely not up on all the intricacies of research regulation. 99% of the time people in your situation have no issues. But for 1% risk and 0% benefit, I'm not sure what the point would be.

The OP said it will be a minimal risk study (I'm assuming it will be classified as an exempt study), so the IRB submission and maintenance process will be minimal. If they were doing a greater-than-minimal risk project that required a full board, then I too would be hesitant, but that does not appear to be the case. Besides, as noted above, there will still be a faculty member who will likely be required to oversee the IRB submission (at least on paper)

My first IRB submission was a steep learning curve, but it has made my subsequent submissions easier. If you're going to stay in academics, you'll have to submit IRB projects, so you might as well learn with a low-risk exempt study.

 

[awared2]

The OP said it will be a minimal risk study (I'm assuming it will be classified as an exempt study), so the IRB submission and maintenance process will be minimal. If they were doing a greater-than-minimal risk project that required a full board, then I too would be hesitant, but that does not appear to be the case. Besides, as noted above, there will still be a faculty member who will likely be required to oversee the IRB submission (at least on paper)

My first IRB submission was a steep learning curve, but it has made my subsequent submissions easier. If you're going to stay in academics, you'll have to submit IRB projects, so you might as well learn with a low-risk exempt study.

I'm filling out the IRB submission and getting help from my advisor and the research assistants in the department. Definitely a steep learning curve, but yes it should be considered an exempt study (that still requires IRB approval saying it is exempt)

 

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[awared2]

Hmm. So recognize that minimal risk and exempt are not the same thing. "Exempt" is an IRB determination made on the basis of how data is collected or handled. "Minimal risk" is a determination made on the basis of threats to study participants.

Exempt studies are usually either (1) non-reasearch, or (2) studies in which all data is de-identified at the source (i.e. - inaccessible to the study steam). Minimal risk simply means that risk to study participants is no more than what would normally encountered in daily life, or during a physical examination.

Most of my minimal risk studies are processed through "expedited review" and it is pretty rare that I get exempt determinations, unless I'm working with a database that permits source de-identification (and usually those kind of suck).


I'm not arguing he shouldn't do the submission. Of course that's a great learning process. But making yourself PI carries legal responsibilities that students should be reluctant to expose themselves to. Being "overseen" by faculty isn't the same as "faculty will take responsibility when **** goes bad." I've seen this at the resident level, and it is not good.

I definitely appreciate the feedback and I'll bring it up next time I talk with my advisor. In terms of the research though, it is "minimal risk" in that it does not bring participants to a risk more than normal routines, and should be "exempt" because it is an anonymous questionnaire.

 

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[PatsyStone]

Most of my minimal risk studies are processed through "expedited review" and it is pretty rare that I get exempt determinations, unless I'm working with a database that permits source de-identification (and usually those kind of suck).

I've been able to get non-database studies with minimal risk approved as "exempt" submissions. I think there is tremendous variation between universities/IRB offices on how thing get processed (and how quickly!)

 

[neusu]

On my IRB submission, he suggested that I be listed as PI. It is a minimal risk study though

Is your adviser a PI as well, e.g. you are co-PI's? That is rather common