Placed on Disciplinary Probation! Need some advice

[hyd3]

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[Praefectus]

Your administration sounds outlandish. Explain the circumstances in your application/interview and I'm sure that adcoms will be more understanding. If you learned something from the ordeal, that would look very positive. Just don't try to hide it or you'll make things worse.

 

[CurlsandPearls]

Hi guys, I was placed on disciplinary probation for academic dishonesty in my freshman year for something I had no intention of doing. My class was supposed to write an optional extra credit assignment for a class and we were allowed to use sources as evidence. It was pretty late at night when I did this so I was not completely focused. As a result, I ended up using a source without putting quotation marks or citing the source at the very end. I didn't mean to do this, and without looking over the material I submitted it to my professor who ended up turning me in to the university. When I tried to explain this to the university, they did not believe me and so I was put on disciplinary probation. I am really worried about this and how it will affect my chances at medical schools. My intention wasn't to plagiarize an EXTRA CREDIT ASSIGNMENT that I was in no way obligated to complete. What should I do guys? Is my dream of med school vanquished? I've been worrying a lot about this...

That sounds pretty horrible, most of my professors probably would have discussed it with the student first. Is there nothing else you can do about it? If I were in this situation I would definitely make sure I went through all possible routes of getting taken off disciplinary probation/getting that removed from my record.

If you have the finances, maybe consider getting legal advice? Some universities offer free legal services for students. Mine for example has a list of local attorneys that will do various free or discounted services (i.e. one firm offers 2 consultations for a student for free). Some universities have programs where their best-in-class 3rd year law students can offer free consultations to other students.

 

[gyngyn]

With thousands of overqualified candidates it would have to be an amazing overall application in addition to an amazing explanation (with evidence of contrition and understanding of the reasoning behind the sanction). Your current explanation would not hold much water, I'm afraid. Much of medicine is practiced under fatigue. Youth and the passage of time without further infractions will also help.

 

[Pattycake25]

Hi guys, I was placed on disciplinary probation for academic dishonesty in my freshman year for something I had no intention of doing. My class was supposed to write an optional extra credit assignment for a class and we were allowed to use sources as evidence. It was pretty late at night when I did this so I was not completely focused. As a result, I ended up using a source without putting quotation marks or citing the source at the very end. I didn't mean to do this, and without looking over the material I submitted it to my professor who ended up turning me in to the university. When I tried to explain this to the university, they did not believe me and so I was put on disciplinary probation. I am really worried about this and how it will affect my chances at medical schools. My intention wasn't to plagiarize an EXTRA CREDIT ASSIGNMENT that I was in no way obligated to complete. What should I do guys? Is my dream of med school vanquished? I've been worrying a lot about this...

Are you totally screwed? No.

However, just because you did not intend to plagiarize does not mean you are COMPLETELY innocent. You still made critical errors, and you must own up to them, or med schools will easily dismiss you as too immature for the medical profession. Assuming that you are unable to have this removed from your record, you need to explain the lessons you learned about cautious review of your work, awareness of your limitations, and so on. Absolutely mention that it was an oversight, and that you were not deliberately dishonest (which is a whole 'nother can of worms, and one that could easily, but not even then not definitely, keep you out of school), but move on from that point quickly, and talk about your learning process on the rest of it. Good luck.

 

[von Matterhorn]

You'll just have to explain it on secondaries and whatnot. I definitely wouldn't take the 'I'm innocent!' route that you are, though. No one likes a person who completely passes off blame. You were in the wrong, whether or not you meant to be.

 

[LizzyM]

That sounds pretty horrible, most of my professors probably would have discussed it with the student first. Is there nothing else you can do about it? If I were in this situation I would definitely make sure I went through all possible routes of getting taken off disciplinary probation/getting that removed from my record.

If you have the finances, maybe consider getting legal advice? Some universities offer free legal services for students. Mine for example has a list of local attorneys that will do various free or discounted services (i.e. one firm offers 2 consultations for a student for free). Some universities have programs where their best-in-class 3rd year law students can offer free consultations to other students.

Whether or not anything is every removed from your record, you must report "institutional action".

There is no point in getting legal advice. This is not a legal issue. You broke no law and you aren't in any legal trouble. The law cannot not get you out of the trouble you are in for academic misconduct.

 

[hyd3]

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[katiemaude]

I think everyone addressed the questions you just asked.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

Out of curiosity, how long was this quote that got you in trouble?

 

[hyd3]

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Let me guess, you go to University of Virginia...?

Anyway, that's absolute bs. You didn't cite one thing, you should have gotten at the worst a 0 for the paper. I would be fighting that accusation.

 

[LizzyM]

The problem with having a faculty member give a zero for an assignment and not reporting it as required by the academic code of conduct it is that the student does the same with another professor, and another, and another and the systemic problem is never addressed. If the Dean or some other administrative body keeps a centralized record of offenses, then serial offenders can be identified and punished accordingly.

 

[hyd3]

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[LizzyM]

What are your suggestions as to how I should approach this? I want the admissions committee to see me in the best possible light, and I feel like this will diminish my image in their eyes (although I did not intend on doing this).

You have to report it. Don't make excuses about it being late, you being tired, or your intentions. Just say "I was careless and I failed to appropriately cite the source of 2 sentences in my extra credit report. My professor reported me to the authorities and I was placed on academic probation. I have become diligent in checking my work to be sure that I appropriately quote and cite material that I obtain from outside sources."

That's pretty much all you can do.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

The problem with having a faculty member give a zero for an assignment and not reporting it as required by the academic code of conduct it is that the student does the same with another professor, and another, and another and the systemic problem is never addressed. If the Dean or some other administrative body keeps a centralized record of offenses, then serial offenders can be identified and punished accordingly.

What's the likelihood of this repeating? What are the direct causal effects of someone not citing someone's name after a comment? Honestly, I understand if the person was cheating like buying prewritten essays or hiring people to write their essays. Or if this was an independent research paper, thesis, or dissertation and the op was trying to say this was his own independent research. But no, it's not, it's just the OP not citing one line in a paper, he's not stealing fire from the gods.

 

[SnowyRox]

What's the likelihood of this repeating? What are the direct causal effects of someone not citing someone's name after a comment? Honestly, I understand if the person was cheating like buying prewritten essays or hiring people to write their essays. Or if this was an independent research paper, thesis, or dissertation and the op was trying to say this was his own independent research. But no, it's not, it's just the OP not citing one line in a paper, he's not stealing fire from the gods.

Seriously?

Plagiarism is still plagiarism even if the OP claims it was accidental. Plus the professor has no way of knowing whether the OP is being truthful or spinning him a line of BS to get out of punishment.

 

[LizzyM]

What's the likelihood of this repeating? What are the direct causal effects of someone not citing someone's name after a comment? Honestly, I understand if the person was cheating like buying prewritten essays or hiring people to write their essays. Or if this was an independent research paper, thesis, or dissertation and the op was trying to say this was his own independent research. But no, it's not, it's just the OP not citing one line in a paper, he's not stealing fire from the gods.

In academia, we have a code of conduct. Part of that code is that one gives credit for ideas that are included in one's written work. Furthermore, if one uses a direct quote, that direct quote is placed in quotation marks and the source is cited. Failure to adhere to this code of conduct is taken very seriously. Experience shows that someone who gets off with a slap on the wrist and who expects the same for a repeat offense may re-offend. Undergrads are supposed to be learning good habits so that when it comes time to write a thesis or dissertation that the good habits are second nature. We are doing students a disservice if we let things slide until they are writing a doctoral dissertation or a masters thesis.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Seriously?

Plagiarism is still plagiarism even if the OP claims it was accidental. Plus the professor has no way of knowing whether the OP is being truthful or spinning him a line of BS to get out of punishment.

Plagiarism is an umbrella term that puts people who are stealing information and students that give no solid damn about what they're reading in the same box. What is the incentive for the OP to not write the person's name after the quote? I mean it's an asinine debate.

 

[LizzyM]

Plagiarism is an umbrella term that puts people who are stealing information and students that give no solid damn about what they're reading in the same box. What is the incentive for the OP to not write the person's name after the quote? I mean it's an asinine debate.

Intellectual laziness (or physical laziness in academic matters), if discovered, is punished harshly in the academy. If a student doesn't give a damn, there will be hell to pay. The OP's incentive should be to stay out of trouble.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

In academia, we have a code of conduct. Part of that code is that one gives credit for ideas that are included in one's written work. Furthermore, if one uses a direct quote, that direct quote is placed in quotation marks and the source is cited. Failure to adhere to this code of conduct is taken very seriously. Experience shows that someone who gets off with a slap on the wrist and who expects the same for a repeat offense may re-offend. Undergrads are supposed to be learning good habits so that when it comes time to write a thesis or dissertation that the good habits are second nature. We are doing students a disservice if we let things slide until they are writing a doctoral dissertation or a masters thesis.

To play Devil's Advocate here, it's also doing a disservice to students to effectively ban them from ever going into any profession that requires a graduate degree over a single mistake. In OP's case there was really nothing for him to learn. Sure, now he's never going to forget to cite a source again, but at the same time it doesn't matter because he's never going to have the opportunity to write a dissertation or thesis because of this.

I'm not saying to let this sort of thing slide, but at the same time a major flaw in the academic honor system is that you only have two possible outcomes: You get found innocent of the charges, or you get banned from every professional career. There's no inbetween that doesn't instantly ruin your chances of ever getting into a graduate program but also makes it clear that the same kind of behavior won't be tolerated again. Furthermore, this "innocent or executed" system is counterproductive because it encourages students to keep quiet about cases of cheating that they do know about; no one wants to live with the knowledge that they were part of the reason why someone will never get to fulfill their dreams.

And let's stop beating around the bush here: The truth is that OP isn't going to get into medical school with plagiarism on his record. Even if he explains it the adcoms aren't going to care since they've got thousands of qualified applicants with no tarnish on their records and they can only pick a hundred or so to interview. An applicant with an honor code violation is the first one to go into the trash can after the auto-screen rejects. Sure, on extremely rare occasions an applicant with an honor code violation will get accepted, but I don't think we're doing OP a favor by indirectly encouraging him to continue investing very large amounts of time, effort, and money trying to accomplish what is almost certainly a futile goal for which the ultimate cost of failure is that you get stuck with a worthless degree and no career, but a lot of loan debt.

 

[LizzyM]

To play Devil's Advocate here, it's also doing a disservice to students to effectively ban them from ever going into any profession that requires a graduate degree over a single mistake. In OP's case there was really nothing for him to learn. Sure, now he's never going to forget to cite a source again, but at the same time it doesn't matter because he's never going to have the opportunity to write a dissertation or thesis because of this.

I'm not saying to let this sort of thing slide, but at the same time a major flaw in the academic honor system is that you only have two possible outcomes: You get found innocent of the charges, or you get banned from every professional career. There's no inbetween that doesn't instantly ruin your chances of ever getting into a graduate program but also makes it clear that the same kind of behavior won't be tolerated again. Furthermore, this "innocent or executed" system is counterproductive because it encourages students to keep quiet about cases of cheating that they do know about; no one wants to live with the knowledge that they were part of the reason why someone will never get to fulfill their dreams.

And let's stop beating around the bush here: The truth is that OP isn't going to get into medical school with plagiarism on his record. Even if he explains it the adcoms aren't going to care since they've got thousands of qualified applicants with no tarnish on their records and they can only pick a hundred or so to interview. An applicant with an honor code violation is the first one to go into the trash can after the auto-screen rejects. Sure, on extremely rare occasions an applicant with an honor code violation will get accepted, but I don't think we're doing OP a favor by indirectly encouraging him to continue investing very large amounts of time, effort, and money trying to accomplish what is almost certainly a futile goal for which the ultimate cost of failure is that you get stuck with a worthless degree and no career, but a lot of loan debt.

If a bachelor's degree is worthless, then we are in a sad state of affairs in America, aren't we? Are you suggesting that the OP might as well quit school and get a job as a janitor?

While academic dishonesty is not a characteristic that adcoms are seeking out, a relatively minor infraction (failing to cite a source in a short paper) might not be the kiss of death particularly if it is the only offense and the applicant owes up to it and learns from that error.

Read, "Forgive and Remember" to see how different kinds of errors are treated in a surgical residency program. Not all errors are the third rail of academia.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

If a bachelor's degree is worthless, then we are in a sad state of affairs in America, aren't we? Are you suggesting that the OP might as well quit school and get a job as a janitor?

While academic dishonesty is not a characteristic that adcoms are seeking out, a relatively minor infraction (failing to cite a source in a short paper) might not be the kiss of death particularly if it is the only offense and the applicant owes up to it and learns from that error.

Read, "Forgive and Remember" to see how different kinds of errors are treated in a surgical residency program. Not all errors are the third rail of academia.

No, I was suggesting that he switch to a major that allows a person to have a career straight out of undergrad, like finance/accounting, computer science, or engineering.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

To play Devil's Advocate here, it's also doing a disservice to students to effectively ban them from ever going into any profession that requires a graduate degree over a single mistake. In OP's case there was really nothing for him to learn. Sure, now he's never going to forget to cite a source again, but at the same time it doesn't matter because he's never going to have the opportunity to write a dissertation or thesis because of this.

I'm not saying to let this sort of thing slide, but at the same time a major flaw in the academic honor system is that you only have two possible outcomes: You get found innocent of the charges, or you get banned from every professional career. There's no inbetween that doesn't instantly ruin your chances of ever getting into a graduate program but also makes it clear that the same kind of behavior won't be tolerated again. Furthermore, this "innocent or executed" system is counterproductive because it encourages students to keep quiet about cases of cheating that they do know about; no one wants to live with the knowledge that they were part of the reason why someone will never get to fulfill their dreams.

And let's stop beating around the bush here: The truth is that OP isn't going to get into medical school with plagiarism on his record. Even if he explains it the adcoms aren't going to care since they've got thousands of qualified applicants with no tarnish on their records and they can only pick a hundred or so to interview. An applicant with an honor code violation is the first one to go into the trash can after the auto-screen rejects. Sure, on extremely rare occasions an applicant with an honor code violation will get accepted, but I don't think we're doing OP a favor by indirectly encouraging him to continue investing very large amounts of time, effort, and money trying to accomplish what is almost certainly a futile goal for which the ultimate cost of failure is that you get stuck with a worthless degree and no career, but a lot of loan debt.

This is pretty much what I'm saying. The draconian system hurts more people than it protects.

 

[orangeblossom]

question to LizzyM: on the off chance that the OP is not questioned about this during an interview, should he/she bring it up proactively (like at the end)? i find that apologies in real life are more convincing than on paper

 

[LizzyM]

question to LizzyM: on the off chance that the OP is not questioned about this during an interview, should he/she bring it up proactively (like at the end)? i find that apologies in real life are more convincing than on paper

Absolutely not! At my school, if the "police committee" (not its real name) determines that an applicant is acceptable for review despite an IA on the record, then the IA is "off the table" at future discussions of the applican't record. The most minor infraction might be someone who attended a party where beer was served to an underage student. That applicant would get and need not bring up the IA at interview. An application from someone who had an IA for providing beer to an underage student and then sexually assaulting that student would get .

An IA is like a zit on your chin. It is clearly visible but shouldn't be brought up for discussion at interview.


OP, we aren't able to predict what each med school will do with your application. You are likely to have a harder time than someone without an IA but a better chance than someone who was expelled for cheating. If you choose to stay on the pre-med path, give some thought to what you would do if the door to medical school was not open to you and you needed an alternate career.

 

[Pattycake25]

To play Devil's Advocate here, it's also doing a disservice to students to effectively ban them from ever going into any profession that requires a graduate degree over a single mistake. In OP's case there was really nothing for him to learn. Sure, now he's never going to forget to cite a source again, but at the same time it doesn't matter because he's never going to have the opportunity to write a dissertation or thesis because of this.

The discussion here is on point, I'm only jumping in here because statements like this can't be left alone.

OP, your application has a hurdle you will eventually have to face, but in no way should you be THIS pessimistic about your chances! Med schools (and other professional schools) like saints, but they don't expect to fill their classes entirely with them either. Just recommit yourself to being the best premed you can be (while still having a life, always important) and when the time comes to apply, be completely honest and forthcoming, and admit to the mistakes you did make.

You were careless and sloppy. This is not the end of the world, but it does reflect very poorly on you if you can't admit this simple fact, and med schools WILL take you to task over failing to do so. Explain how you learned to pay closer attention at ALL times, however, and I have a very difficult time seeing this being a death knell for ANY adcom. No one is perfect.

 

[JoshuaGuit]

That sounds pretty horrible, most of my professors probably would have discussed it with the student first. Is there nothing else you can do about it? If I were in this situation I would definitely make sure I went through all possible routes of getting taken off disciplinary probation/getting that removed from my record.

If you have the finances, maybe consider getting legal advice? Some universities offer free legal services for students. Mine for example has a list of local attorneys that will do various free or discounted services (i.e. one firm offers 2 consultations for a student for free). Some universities have programs where their best-in-class 3rd year law students can offer free consultations to other students.

Might be different at your university, but the free legal help provided by mine specifically can't be used against the actual university

 

[CurlsandPearls]

Might be different at your university, but the free legal help provided by mine specifically can't be used against the actual university

.Yeah, I'm sure all universities are different. I have no idea how it really works at mine because I've never had to use it. Besides, it wouldn't really help in OPs case anyway:.

Whether or not anything is every removed from your record, you must report "institutional action".

There is no point in getting legal advice. This is not a legal issue. You broke no law and you aren't in any legal trouble. The law cannot not get you out of the trouble you are in for academic misconduct.

.It makes sense, and I only suggested it because I was trying to think of any possible route the OP could take to come to a solution.

It's really a shame that the professor didn't talk to OP about it first. I knew a guy a few years ago who really plagiarized his entire paper (found a paper on his topic online and cut/pasted it and turned it in) and his prof talked to him about it. The prof gave him a F on the assignment, and he already had such a low grade in the class anyway that it ended up causing him to have an overall F in the class. Depending on who you ask, a F in one class may be better than disciplinary probation. .

I'm not saying to let this sort of thing slide, but at the same time a major flaw in the academic honor system is that you only have two possible outcomes: You get found innocent of the charges, or you get banned from every professional career. There's no inbetween that doesn't instantly ruin your chances of ever getting into a graduate program but also makes it clear that the same kind of behavior won't be tolerated again. Furthermore, this "innocent or executed" system is counterproductive because it encourages students to keep quiet about cases of cheating that they do know about; no one wants to live with the knowledge that they were part of the reason why someone will never get to fulfill their dreams.

I completely agree with this. I know plenty of people who have cheated or who have been academically dishonest in some way but I've never told on anyone and probably never would. For example, I know a few guys in a fraternity at my school who have past tests, papers, projects, quizzes, assignments, etc. that have been collected for years from various different classes. Many times teachers use the same tests, quizzes or homework assignments so these guys can now just memorize/copy from their fraternity test bank. One of the guys from the fraternity actually just started med school this year.

Another good example is a girl I sat next to in one of my programming classes used to cheat on tests all the time. Our tests were on the computer and she would always write down certain codes and formulas we needed to remember in a document and open it up when our prof wasn't looking. I never told on her.

What these people are/were doing isn't right, but I'm not going to be the one to tell on them and get them into trouble on their permanent academic record.

Edit: I'd also like to add that we talked about cheating a little bit in some of my Experimental Econ and Behavioral Econ classes. Basically, there isn't much of a benefit to reporting cheating. The person who reports it doesn't get a grade boost or a reward for reporting it really, and they also doesn't want to be seen as a "snitch" or tattle tale in the eyes of their professors and peers. Costs of reporting cheating outweigh the benefits for most, I believe...

 

[LizzyM]

. <snip>
What these people are/were doing isn't right, but I'm not going to be the one to tell on them and get them into trouble on their permanent academic record.

Edit: I'd also like to add that we talked about cheating a little bit in some of my Experimental Econ and Behavioral Econ classes. Basically, there isn't much of a benefit to reporting cheating. The person who reports it doesn't get a grade boost or a reward for reporting it really, and they also doesn't want to be seen as a "snitch" or tattle tale in the eyes of their professors and peers. Costs of reporting cheating outweigh the benefits for most, I believe...

So, when people do things that aren't right, you turn a blind eye because you don't want to get them in trouble.

As a physician, would you rat out a colleague who was bragging about how they inappropriately bill insurance for procedures not performed?

Would you say something to someone about a nurse who appeared to be acting oddly in a patient care area?

Would you report if there was a benefit to you rather than a neutral?

 

[CurlsandPearls]

So, when people do things that aren't right, you turn a blind eye because you don't want to get them in trouble.

Not necessarily that I wouldn't want to get them in trouble, mostly I think I just wouldn't want to get involved. Especially something like cheating on tests/homework assignments because honestly the person cheating isn't doing anything but hurting themselves. When they cheat on assignments they aren't taking points away from anyone else or putting anyone else's grade in jeopardy. I've never cheated on a test or assignment because I'm scared of what would happen if I get caught, the risks outweigh any possible benefit for me personally.

As a physician, would you rat out a colleague who was bragging about how they inappropriately bill insurance for procedures not performed?

I don't know if my first reaction would be to immediately run to a superior and rat the person out. If they were trying to have a conversation with me about inappropriately billing companies, my first reaction right now would be to tell them that what they're doing is wrong and that they will get caught. Especially if this physician was in a group of people bragging, I can see where the bystander effect would come into play - everyone would just kind of leave it up to someone else to handle the situation.

Would you say something to someone about a nurse who appeared to be acting oddly in a patient care area?

If I had never met or seen the nurse before and she was acting oddly, I'd probably just assume that she was a weird/strange person, I'd also ask someone else if that's how she always acts around patients. If I knew her and had met her many times and she seemed to be acting weird one day, I'd probably ask her about it first. Maybe she's just tired and/or stressed about something (home, family, marriage, money, etc.) and needs to go home and rest.

Would you report if there was a benefit to you rather than a neutral?

I'd report something if there was a patient in danger or if there was a benefit to the patient, not necessarily if there was a benefit to myself.

 

[LizzyM]

It's reasonable to think about some of these hypothetical questions because some interviewers like to ask about them.

 

[Genecks]

I would get a lawyer. If something like that happened to me, I would immediately get a lawyer. Errors in writing are bound to happen. A person can't be a perfect writer. And many writers have editors and proofreaders who read things before publication. As such, the whole idea that in the professional world people submit something for immediate publication is ridiculous without a peer review or editing. You're simply a student, and you're not given a professional editor to watch over any possible mistakes.

Get a lawyer and **** them up.

Don't threaten legal action, just get a lawyer and do it. Once that happens, they'll back off you, because they know you're serious.

 

[MDWannabe90]

I know this is off topic as far as where the thread is going so sorry to interrupt! Lol, but OP, I remember reading in another thread about someone who got a DUI and didn't know what to do, many people suggested that he/she volunteer or work at a center that gives help to those who have gotten DUI's or join a non profit that helps people recover from alcoholism and that activity would not only serve as a great community service opportunity but show that the pre-med student was owning up to what they did and tried to make a difference in the live's of other people who suffered from something similar to what he/she did.

I know that plagiarism is probably no where near as serious as a DUI, but maybe you could get a job on campus where you are tutoring for english and checking for plagiarism or maybe ask to serve on a board with faculty members who discuss plagiarism or do seminars on campus about what exactly plagiarism is and how to avoid it. I don't know about your campus but I know mine would definitely give students the opportunity to have workshops/seminars if a student was willing to coordinate. I think this would make your application particularly stronger and show determination, strength, responsibility and ability to learn from mistakes because you can tell adcom's you're sorry all day long but actually SHOWING you are sorry is totally different!

Just my $0.02

 

[MDWannabe90]

I would get a lawyer. If something like that happened to me, I would immediately get a lawyer. Errors in writing are bound to happen. A person can't be a perfect writer. And many writers have editors and proofreaders who read things before publication. As such, the whole idea that in the professional world people submit something for immediate publication is ridiculous without a peer review or editing. You're simply a student, and you're not given a professional editor to watch over any possible mistakes.

Get a lawyer and **** them up.

Don't threaten legal action, just get a lawyer and do it. Once that happens, they'll back off you, because they know you're serious.

I totally get what you are saying! But just like others have said that can't always work. At my school, for example, I've served on a student conduct panel which is where we decide whether a violation that a student has performed constitutes removal from the university. I've seen this time and time again where they bring in their lawyers and the lawyers can't do anything. legal violations and academic violations are 2 completely different things. Like for example, a 21 yr. old caught drinking in a dorm where alcohol is not allowed will not be charged by the state because they are of age, but they will certainly be charged by the school and possibly kicked out whether they are 21 or 50 because school policy is that you are not allowed to drink in that dorm. Same goes for plagiarism, It is school policy and the student automatically accepted that policy by attending the school so no matter what there is no way around it.

 

[Genecks]

Good for you.
I still recommend a lawyer and generating a lawsuit. I'm sure there are lawyers who specialize in this because of the above conditions you have described; and I'm sure they are willing to be paid to argue, fight, and win.

Lawyers go through lots of articles, papers, court documents, and so forth. They look for patterns, rules, regulations, social beliefs, values of that society, and so forth. They aren't that dumb, and they'll put in the effort.

Better to try than let college become and form of high school where fascism reins and people are ****ed up the ass.

OP is an adult. OP made a mistake. Just take legal action.
Judgement should be passed on intention. The intention to cheat was not there.
I'm sure the student can easily generate a lawsuit based on an "extra credit" assignment.
Dude, go for it. Smack them down.

 

[MDWannabe90]

Yea, totally get a lawyer, cuz they are allowed to defy University policy

 

[hyd3]

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[LizzyM]

I appreciate all the advice you guys are giving me about getting a lawyer, fighting it, etc. If, for some very unfortunate reason none of this works out in my favor, would going to the caribbean be an option?

With regard to getting a lawyer, see http://www.u.arizona.edu/~rlo/482/plagiarism.pdf

The caribbean is lovely this time of year but if you want to be a physician, it is a long, long, long shot as it is easy to get in, hard to stay in, and difficult to get into a residency (and getting more difficult as more US med schools open -- residency programs tend to favor US grads over International (Foreign) Medical Graduates (IMG/FMG).

 

[hyd3]

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[LizzyM]

I was looking to go into internal/family medicine residency. I looked at caribbean match rates, and the students from SGU tend to have a lot of the aforementioned residencies under their belt.

What proportion of students who start classes there complete the degree? What proportion of US citizens who successfully complete the degree match in the residency of their choice on the first try? on the second try. Unless you have a denominator, the number of x who achieve y is meaningless.

 

[hyd3]

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[LizzyM]

https://apps.sgu.edu/ERD/2012/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY1&Count=-1

obviously, you didn't understand my question or why it is important. That list is meaningless unless you know how many people were trying to match.

 

[hyd3]

.

 

[theseeker4]

Oh, so this list only comprises those accepted from SGU? Overall, there are far more applicants for residency slots from Ross, etc. and not just from SGU. Is that what you were trying to relate?

Many flunk out. They won't include the grads who dont match on their list. Well over 90% of US MD grads will graduate and match in the US so will be able to practice here. The same cannot be said for Caribbean schools, even the "big 4"

 

[LizzyM]

Oh, so this list only comprises those accepted from SGU? Overall, there are far more applicants for residency slots from Ross, etc. and not just from SGU. Is that what you were trying to relate?

At most US medical schools >95% of graduating M4 students match. At my school, it is closer to 98%, maybe 99%.

This is the case at just about every US medical school. The vast majority of US graduates match and the vast majority of US residency slots go to US graduates. A much smaller proportion of residency slots go to people who graduated from osteopathic medical schools and foreign medical schools. This includes physicians from abroad who are immigrating to the US as well as US citizens who earned medical degrees abroad.

See http://im-for-imgs.com/2011/11/21/slow-elimination-of-international-medical-graduates/ for an interesting graph.

 

[pietachok]

I don't particularly think it sounds like your situation was mishandled, but I'm perturbed by all the litigiousness in the thread, so I would like to propose that your school's office of ombudsman is probably a more appropriate resource than a lawyer if you feel you were treated unfairly.

You're only on probation. I think it would be more helpful to find ways to prove your ethical character--that means accepting responsibility, learning from your experience, & moving forward without further red flags. Physician ethics are an increasingly emphasized aspect of medical education, & a significant emphasis is placed on taking responsibility & properly handling your mistakes. Accordingly, I think you have to be really careful not to sound at all like you're trying to excuse your actions...it's hard to resist, but I think all the stuff about being sleepy is a big turn off

 

[hyd3]

.

 

[LizzyM]

Do I have a good shot at interviews so that I can explain this to the Adcoms in person?

Schools will vary.

Some will not waste an interview slot on someone whom they would not admit no matter what explanation might be given.

Some schools may decide that a specific IA is "no big deal" and disregard it in all future dealings with the applicant. That means not asking about it at interview, not discussing it as a factor in admission decisions. In some cases, it would not come up because the interview is closed file. Bringing up something like this that your interviewer does not know about would not be a great idea.

 

[pietachok]

Do I have a good shot at interviews so that I can explain this to the Adcoms in person?

You don't usually speak to a whole adcom on your interview day. Interviewers may or may not be on the actual adcom. Many schools would not waste resources interviewing you unless they were willing to overlook the probation. Thus, if you get an interview, you need to follow the lead of the interviewer -- many schools will not tell the interviewer about the probation either because they have "blind" interviews or because they decide about such big issues pre-interview & then will not re-visit (like that info won't again be brought up about you). You don't want to bring it up to an interviewer who otherwise doesn't have anything bad to think about you. So, the explaining really belongs in writing in the application-- they all have a spot to include this.