Plagarism on acceptance to med school

[justlive1998]

Sounds reasonable to me if you think you can get that job, and definitely pays better than EMT or CNA.



Yes, though this is just from personal experience and I am certainly not an expert in the area. This would likely depend on geographic area, job availability, market saturation, and slough of other factors that I can't really speak to.

I honestly don't know the process for that at all. However, if you could do it then it seems like a valid career route, and if the average salary is 6 figures as it looked like, it may be a completely valid substitution for medical school. Something you'll have to ponder yourself.



Depends on your plan. Do you want to be a CAA? If that's the case, idk. Are you going to leave school and work for a few years and then apply for med school? In that case it depends. There are plenty of clinical jobs you could get that only need a certification or minimal licensure. In those cases your major won't matter at all. If you're thinking about forgoing medical school altogether, I'd say finding a major other than bio is a good idea unless you're willing to pursue a PhD. Job market for pure bio without a clear focus just isn't great imo (this is coming from a former bio major with multiple gap years).



Having a plan B is essential for everyone. I don't care if you're getting a 4.0 at Harvard with a 525 MCAT and outstanding ECs. You should still have some form of plan B.



Eh, I've lived off of less than 15k/yr in two separate major cities. Granted, they weren't like NYC or SF, but still, 40k is enough for an individual to live off of pretty much anywhere. If you're supporting a family or something it may be a different story, but 40k straight out of UG isn't bad. My friends were searching for jobs at the same time (+/- a year), all of my chem and biochem friends had no problems finding jobs and most were employed before graduation. Many earning over 70k without ridiculous connections. I cannot say the same about my friends who graduated with general bio degrees and withoCould be geographic reasons, but had I not gotten into medical school I would have very seriously regretted getting a bio degree instead of chem/biochem based on my friends' experiences.

I'm asking if I should change my major in more of a "what if med schools don't accept me" or "what if my plan B doesn't work out". I'm just scared that My career is ruined from this and that I don't have a chance.

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[operaman]

OP, your career is not over. Yes, you have some uncomfortable conversations ahead of you, but this should not completely derail your chances for medical school. You've already gotten some great advice and perspective in this thread. I'll add few thoughts/suggestions for consideration:

1) Don't do anything for at least another semester. This is all pretty raw for you, so give it some time and space before switching majors or making any other firm career plans.
2) Tell your parents. It will suck, but take responsibility and own up to it and tell them about it face to face. You've made a mistake, welcome to the club. If you become a physician, you will have to do this a lot more than you realize - telling your fellow residents, attendings, even patients when you've made a mistake. It always sucks, but it's the right thing to do. While this is hopefully the last time you cheat, it won't be the last time you make a mistake.
3) Agree that applying after you graduate is probably the best option. Yes this means a gap year but it will go by pretty fast while you're busy applying to medical school. The job you get for the year doesn't really matter, it's just temporary.
4) Taking a little extra time will allow you to spread out difficult classes a little more and devote a little more time to the MCAT, hopefully resulting in better grades and a higher MCAT score.
5) I might be a contrarian and suggest focusing on medicine if that is still your goal. If there are small change you can make now that will facilitate other Plan Bs, then sure, that's fine, but I wouldn't go throwing everything out of whack just yet. Select a major that you like and that will allow you to make As and take the required pre-reqs for medical school.

There's nothing guaranteed in all of this. Statistically you had only a 50% chance of acceptance even before this whole incident; if those odds weren't enough before to make you change majors, then I would sit tight for now. Agree with taking on responsibilities that show you've grown past this, and lets not forget that the growing hasn't actually happened yet. Growth is usually not any fun and comes with some awkwardness and discomfort along the way.

The truth is, if you come through this and have the scores and academic chops to handle medical school, I think I would prefer an applicant like you who has made a mistake like this and suffered for it over someone who just never got caught. Dishonesty is a HUGE problem in the medical field. Do you have any idea how often I'm lied to by other physicians? How often I see physicians lie to others? ALL THE TIME. Daily. It happens so often that I almost don't notice it anymore. They're never big lies, just little ones that people tell almost by reflex to cover for things they don't know or haven't done. Lots of "I think" that test result was X or "I believe my exam was Y," often accompanied by the sounds of frantic clicking while they try to look up what was just asked. If you come out of this the sort of person who will never pull crap like that, then I'd vote for your admission any day.

Now go talk to your parents.

 

[justlive1998]

OP, your career is not over. Yes, you have some uncomfortable conversations ahead of you, but this should not completely derail your chances for medical school. You've already gotten some great advice and perspective in this thread. I'll add few thoughts/suggestions for consideration:

1) Don't do anything for at least another semester. This is all pretty raw for you, so give it some time and space before switching majors or making any other firm career plans.
2) Tell your parents. It will suck, but take responsibility and own up to it and tell them about it face to face. You've made a mistake, welcome to the club. If you become a physician, you will have to do this a lot more than you realize - telling your fellow residents, attendings, even patients when you've made a mistake. It always sucks, but it's the right thing to do. While this is hopefully the last time you cheat, it won't be the last time you make a mistake.
3) Agree that applying after you graduate is probably the best option. Yes this means a gap year but it will go by pretty fast while you're busy applying to medical school. The job you get for the year doesn't really matter, it's just temporary.
4) Taking a little extra time will allow you to spread out difficult classes a little more and devote a little more time to the MCAT, hopefully resulting in better grades and a higher MCAT score.
5) I might be a contrarian and suggest focusing on medicine if that is still your goal. If there are small change you can make now that will facilitate other Plan Bs, then sure, that's fine, but I wouldn't go throwing everything out of whack just yet. Select a major that you like and that will allow you to make As and take the required pre-reqs for medical school.

There's nothing guaranteed in all of this. Statistically you had only a 50% chance of acceptance even before this whole incident; if those odds weren't enough before to make you change majors, then I would sit tight for now. Agree with taking on responsibilities that show you've grown past this, and lets not forget that the growing hasn't actually happened yet. Growth is usually not any fun and comes with some awkwardness and discomfort along the way.

The truth is, if you come through this and have the scores and academic chops to handle medical school, I think I would prefer an applicant like you who has made a mistake like this and suffered for it over someone who just never got caught. Dishonesty is a HUGE problem in the medical field. Do you have any idea how often I'm lied to by other physicians? How often I see physicians lie to others? ALL THE TIME. Daily. It happens so often that I almost don't notice it anymore. They're never big lies, just little ones that people tell almost by reflex to cover for things they don't know or haven't done. Lots of "I think" that test result was X or "I believe my exam was Y," often accompanied by the sounds of frantic clicking while they try to look up what was just asked. If you come out of this the sort of person who will never pull crap like that, then I'd vote for your admission any day.

Now go talk to your parents.

Thanks for your advice, it really means a lot to have some guidance during this time. I'll definetly follow what you said and wait until taking any drastic actions and med school and being a physician has always been my dream so i'm just going to have to work harder. Thank you and happy new year!

 

[Stagg737]

Your classmates did great if they fetched 70k coming straight out of undergrad with a biochemistry degree. The two of just are just comparing anecdotes at this point. All I can say is that most people from my class either got **** lab tech positions, ended up in food/beverage, or were lucky/smart enough to get into medical school.

Those with the 70k salaries had planned on pursuing an actual chemistry-related career, not medicine. They ended up doing stuff like chemical engineering, pharmaceutical stuff, or working for energy companies. Those who were hoping to pursue medicine and ended up working were the ones making 40-50k in jobs as research assistant, gov work, and stuff like that. I can relate to your classmates as a bio major though, as my main source of income in my gap years had nothing to do with bio and those jobs were completely taken by PhDs (even jobs paying like 35k/year).

I agree it is mostly anecdotal stuff though, and geography, job market, saturation, etc all play roles that I have no way of commenting on outside of personal experience.

I'm asking if I should change my major in more of a "what if med schools don't accept me" or "what if my plan B doesn't work out". I'm just scared that My career is ruined from this and that I don't have a chance.

I think Operaman gave some fantastic advice. If it's not hard to switch majors, I'd consider it if it's nbd to you. At my school it was pretty easy to bounce between bio and biochem, and even bio to chem so long as you did it before spring of junior year (lots of overlap in pre-reqs). If you're still committed to medicine, there are plenty of jobs you can do for 1-2 years after you graduate while you apply. Medically relevant jobs may look slightly better, but as long as you're doing something with your life and can account for those gap years, it won't matter too much. Just make sure you do SOMETHING as it does matter (I actually had residency PDs ask what I did during my gap years during residency interviews!).

 

[justlive1998]

Those with the 70k salaries had planned on pursuing an actual chemistry-related career, not medicine. They ended up doing stuff like chemical engineering, pharmaceutical stuff, or working for energy companies. Those who were hoping to pursue medicine and ended up working were the ones making 40-50k in jobs as research assistant, gov work, and stuff like that. I can relate to your classmates as a bio major though, as my main source of income in my gap years had nothing to do with bio and those jobs were completely taken by PhDs (even jobs paying like 35k/year).

I agree it is mostly anecdotal stuff though, and geography, job market, saturation, etc all play roles that I have no way of commenting on outside of personal experience.



I think Operaman gave some fantastic advice. If it's not hard to switch majors, I'd consider it if it's nbd to you. At my school it was pretty easy to bounce between bio and biochem, and even bio to chem so long as you did it before spring of junior year (lots of overlap in pre-reqs). If you're still committed to medicine, there are plenty of jobs you can do for 1-2 years after you graduate while you apply. Medically relevant jobs may look slightly better, but as long as you're doing something with your life and can account for those gap years, it won't matter too much. Just make sure you do SOMETHING as it does matter (I actually had residency PDs ask what I did during my gap years during residency interviews!).

You mentioned that there are plenty of jobs to do if i'm still committed to medicine, did you mean with a degree in biology/cell and molecular or biochemistry or just in general any science degree? Thanks for your advice btw and happy new year!

 

[deleted862527]

You mentioned that there are plenty of jobs to do if i'm still committed to medicine, did you mean with a degree in biology/cell and molecular or biochemistry or just in general any science degree? Thanks for your advice btw and happy new year!

With your degree, you could apply to a Medical Laboratory Science/Medical Technology School or take the ASCP Examination to get certified in a certain speciality lab field in a Hospital. I'm currently majoring in Medical Laboratory Science and minoring in Chemistry, and MT's can make a decent salary primarily dependent on location. Average starting salary was around $50,000 but salaries have actually increased to an average salary (just updated of November 2017---reported from all of the Human Resources hospital departments that were surveyed) the average salary nationwide for a Bachelor's in MLS was $66,000 which is a big improvement from the past.

 

[justlive1998]

With your degree, you could apply to a Medical Laboratory Science/Medical Technology School or take the ASCP Examination to get certified in a certain speciality lab field in a Hospital. I'm currently majoring in Medical Laboratory Science and minoring in Chemistry, and MT's can make a decent salary primarily dependent on location. Average starting salary was around $50,000 but salaries have actually increased to an average salary (just updated of November 2017---reported from all of the Human Resources hospital departments that were surveyed) the average salary nationwide for a Bachelor's in MLS was $66,000 which is a big improvement from the past.

Could this be a job that I could have during my gap years? Do we need to go to schook for this or can we just take the examination? And also how long does it take to become a MT? My main goal is to become a physician so are you suggesting this as a job between gap years?

 

[deleted862527]

Could this be a job that I could have during my gap years? Do we need to go to schook for this or can we just take the examination? And also how long does it take to become a MT? My main goal is to become a physician so are you suggesting this as a job between gap years?

You could just take the certification exam, get certified, then get a job at a Hospital lab. If you wanted the baccalaureate degree, which would be more marketable, it would be a one year program, or sometimes two years depending on which program you're applying to. Mine is one year, but I have to take three years of pre-requisite courses (Organic chem, physics, etc)

 

[justlive1998]

You could just take the certification exam, get certified, then get a job at a Hospital lab. If you wanted the baccalaureate degree, which would be more marketable, it would be a one year program, or sometimes two years depending on which program you're applying to. Mine is one year, but I have to take three years of pre-requisite courses (Organic chem, physics, etc)

Thanks i might look into that during my gap years to get some clinical experinece and make some money as well. You mentioned it was a one year program for you but you needed 3 years of pre-reqs like ochem and physics, isn't that just courses you take during undergrad for yoir bachelors?

 

[justlive1998]

OP, your career is not over. Yes, you have some uncomfortable conversations ahead of you, but this should not completely derail your chances for medical school. You've already gotten some great advice and perspective in this thread. I'll add few thoughts/suggestions for consideration:

1) Don't do anything for at least another semester. This is all pretty raw for you, so give it some time and space before switching majors or making any other firm career plans.
2) Tell your parents. It will suck, but take responsibility and own up to it and tell them about it face to face. You've made a mistake, welcome to the club. If you become a physician, you will have to do this a lot more than you realize - telling your fellow residents, attendings, even patients when you've made a mistake. It always sucks, but it's the right thing to do. While this is hopefully the last time you cheat, it won't be the last time you make a mistake.
3) Agree that applying after you graduate is probably the best option. Yes this means a gap year but it will go by pretty fast while you're busy applying to medical school. The job you get for the year doesn't really matter, it's just temporary.
4) Taking a little extra time will allow you to spread out difficult classes a little more and devote a little more time to the MCAT, hopefully resulting in better grades and a higher MCAT score.
5) I might be a contrarian and suggest focusing on medicine if that is still your goal. If there are small change you can make now that will facilitate other Plan Bs, then sure, that's fine, but I wouldn't go throwing everything out of whack just yet. Select a major that you like and that will allow you to make As and take the required pre-reqs for medical school.

There's nothing guaranteed in all of this. Statistically you had only a 50% chance of acceptance even before this whole incident; if those odds weren't enough before to make you change majors, then I would sit tight for now. Agree with taking on responsibilities that show you've grown past this, and lets not forget that the growing hasn't actually happened yet. Growth is usually not any fun and comes with some awkwardness and discomfort along the way.

The truth is, if you come through this and have the scores and academic chops to handle medical school, I think I would prefer an applicant like you who has made a mistake like this and suffered for it over someone who just never got caught. Dishonesty is a HUGE problem in the medical field. Do you have any idea how often I'm lied to by other physicians? How often I see physicians lie to others? ALL THE TIME. Daily. It happens so often that I almost don't notice it anymore. They're never big lies, just little ones that people tell almost by reflex to cover for things they don't know or haven't done. Lots of "I think" that test result was X or "I believe my exam was Y," often accompanied by the sounds of frantic clicking while they try to look up what was just asked. If you come out of this the sort of person who will never pull crap like that, then I'd vote for your admission any day.

Now go talk to your parents.

Should I also take the MCAT my junior year and use the score when I apply for med school?

 

[Goro]

Should I also take the MCAT my junior year and use the score when I apply for med school?

You should take the MCAT when you're 100% ready and also remember that it has a 3 year shelf life.

 

[justlive1998]

You should take the MCAT when you're 100% ready and also remember that it has a 3 year shelf life.

I was planning on preparing this summer to take it in the fall of my junior year or the spring. If I take one gap year after college and apply for med school in 2021, when do you suggest I take the MCAT?

 

[operaman]

Should I also take the MCAT my junior year and use the score when I apply for med school?

Goro hit the nail on the head. Take it when you're most ready.

You're getting way ahead of yourself though. Focus on right now, coming clean to your family so you aren't having to keep this secret, focus on your classes next semester, and look for ways you can get involved with academic integrity things on your campus.

It is a very human thing to look to the future and want to plan out the details, especially when you don't want to do the tedious short term things right now, but it's also one of the more useless wastes of time. Plan future things that have some impact on what you are doing right now, and worry about the rest when the time comes.

 

[candbgirl]

Should I also take the MCAT my junior year and use the score when I apply for med school?

You should take the MCAT when you are consistently scoring at or above your target on the practice tests. You seem to be getting way ahead of yourself which might mean you are still planning on applying at the end of junior year. (Despite excellent advice not to.). If that is the case you’ll need to apply before application but you could hold off until second semester of junior year. But remember, MCAT scores do expire so be careful.

 

[justlive1998]

You should take the MCAT when you are consistently scoring at or above your target on the practice tests. You seem to be getting way ahead of yourself which might mean you are still planning on applying at the end of junior year. (Despite excellent advice not to.). If that is the case you’ll need to apply before application but you could hold off until second semester of junior year. But remember, MCAT scores do expire so be careful.

I'm not planning to apply during my junior year. I was asking because I know people who study for the exam for months and wanted to know due to my situation, when to take it since i'll be taking a gap year.

 

[candbgirl]

I'm not planning to apply during my junior year. I was asking because I know people who study for the exam for months and wanted to know due to my situation, when to take it since i'll be taking a gap year.

Your “situation” has no bearing on when you take the test. As long as you are 100% ready and it’s before the test you’ll be okay. Fall of junior year is in 9 months isn’t it? You won’t be applying for 23-24 months after that. So slow down. You’ve got lots of time.

 

[justlive1998]

Your “situation” has no bearing on when you take the test. As long as you are 100% ready and it’s before the test you’ll be okay. Fall of junior year is in 9 months isn’t it? You won’t be applying for 23-24 months after that. So slow down. You’ve got lots of time.

Thanks for all of the great advice and you all have been giving me. I now have a good bearing on what I need to do for the upcoming years.

 

[BTC0821]

I know that there isn't i can do to fix the situation but the reason why i'm worried to apply later is the fact that I would have to work for a few years in the time before applying and there aren't good job prospects for someone who has only a BS in cell and molecular biology degree.

Lab technicians need a biology degree, you may have to supplement with a course or two but my understanding is that they can pull in around 45-50k a year. Do that for a year or two and apply the second year, you could be looking at entering medical school with your loans paid off if you play your cards right.

EDIT:
@Matrix207 found a more accurate link than the one I had

 

[deleted862527]

Lab technicians need a biology degree, you may have to supplement with a course or two but my understanding is that they can pull in around 45-50k a year. Do that for a year or two and apply the second year, you could be looking at entering medical school with your loans paid off if you play your cards right.

Medical and Clinical Laboratory Technologists and Technicians : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

The $50,000 salary there takes into account the average of both (the Medical Lab Technician and Technologist). MLT(Technician's) make significantly less and have an associates degree. A bachelor's makes a lot more and is a Medical Technologist.

Medical Technologist (ASCP) Salaries by education, experience, location and more - Salary.com

The link I just posted above is the most updated salary for a Bachelor's in Medical Technology, and it was updated in November of 2017 after surveying thousands of HR hospital departments across the country.

 

[deleted862527]

Lab technicians need a biology degree, you may have to supplement with a course or two but my understanding is that they can pull in around 45-50k a year. Do that for a year or two and apply the second year, you could be looking at entering medical school with your loans paid off if you play your cards right.

EDIT:
@Matrix207 found a more accurate link than the one I had

Yeah don't worry about it, lol. A lot of them should update it but they keep on averaging the amounts of both the associate's and bachelor's into the total salary.

 

[justlive1998]

OP, your career is not over. Yes, you have some uncomfortable conversations ahead of you, but this should not completely derail your chances for medical school. You've already gotten some great advice and perspective in this thread. I'll add few thoughts/suggestions for consideration:

1) Don't do anything for at least another semester. This is all pretty raw for you, so give it some time and space before switching majors or making any other firm career plans.
2) Tell your parents. It will suck, but take responsibility and own up to it and tell them about it face to face. You've made a mistake, welcome to the club. If you become a physician, you will have to do this a lot more than you realize - telling your fellow residents, attendings, even patients when you've made a mistake. It always sucks, but it's the right thing to do. While this is hopefully the last time you cheat, it won't be the last time you make a mistake.
3) Agree that applying after you graduate is probably the best option. Yes this means a gap year but it will go by pretty fast while you're busy applying to medical school. The job you get for the year doesn't really matter, it's just temporary.
4) Taking a little extra time will allow you to spread out difficult classes a little more and devote a little more time to the MCAT, hopefully resulting in better grades and a higher MCAT score.
5) I might be a contrarian and suggest focusing on medicine if that is still your goal. If there are small change you can make now that will facilitate other Plan Bs, then sure, that's fine, but I wouldn't go throwing everything out of whack just yet. Select a major that you like and that will allow you to make As and take the required pre-reqs for medical school.

There's nothing guaranteed in all of this. Statistically you had only a 50% chance of acceptance even before this whole incident; if those odds weren't enough before to make you change majors, then I would sit tight for now. Agree with taking on responsibilities that show you've grown past this, and lets not forget that the growing hasn't actually happened yet. Growth is usually not any fun and comes with some awkwardness and discomfort along the way.

The truth is, if you come through this and have the scores and academic chops to handle medical school, I think I would prefer an applicant like you who has made a mistake like this and suffered for it over someone who just never got caught. Dishonesty is a HUGE problem in the medical field. Do you have any idea how often I'm lied to by other physicians? How often I see physicians lie to others? ALL THE TIME. Daily. It happens so often that I almost don't notice it anymore. They're never big lies, just little ones that people tell almost by reflex to cover for things they don't know or haven't done. Lots of "I think" that test result was X or "I believe my exam was Y," often accompanied by the sounds of frantic clicking while they try to look up what was just asked. If you come out of this the sort of person who will never pull crap like that, then I'd vote for your admission any day.

Now go talk to your parents.

Hi, I wanted to ask for my situation, what GPA would be good for medical school. I know because of what happened I have to have a high GPA now, but what would your suggestion be for a good range of numbers for keeping my GPA in now?

 

[BTC0821]

Hi, I wanted to ask for my situation, what GPA would be good for medical school. I know because of what happened I have to have a high GPA now, but what would your suggestion be for a good range of numbers for keeping my GPA in now?

As high as possible, there isn't much benefit to giving yourself a floor

 

[operaman]

Hi, I wanted to ask for my situation, what GPA would be good for medical school. I know because of what happened I have to have a high GPA now, but what would your suggestion be for a good range of numbers for keeping my GPA in now?

I forget which of our illustrious posters said it, but think of it like this: you need to make As. Every A is a step toward medical school. Everything that’s not an A is a step away from medical school.