Plans for new school partnership advance

[Caia]

S. Dakota-Minnesota veterinary school plan advances

The proposal originated with Dr. Trevor Ames, dean of the UMN College of Veterinary Medicine, as a way to attract more students interested in rural practice.

Can I just say that exposing students to rural practice has not been shown to actually increase the number of graduates that pursue that field? The degree of "exposure" is not the problem. The nature of rural practice and all that it entails is.

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[ukrainiandude]

Think this

Minnesota could keep its program size constant by reducing the number of students it accepts from Caribbean veterinary schools. Those schools send fourth-year students to programs in the United States and Canada for clinical training. Ames told the VIN News Service last fall that Minnesota historically averages 20 to 25 Caribbean students a year, with the majority interested in pursuing companion animal practice.

 

[Caiter92]

Think this

Minnesota could keep its program size constant by reducing the number of students it accepts from Caribbean veterinary schools. Those schools send fourth-year students to programs in the United States and Canada for clinical training. Ames told the VIN News Service last fall that Minnesota historically averages 20 to 25 Caribbean students a year, with the majority interested in pursuing companion animal practice.

But a lot of Vet schools do this? And it in no way effects their own program size? It’s just another way for those schools to make money.

I’m not really sure what this has to do with the article Caia posted.

 

[ukrainiandude]

But a lot of Vet schools do this? And it in no way effects their own program size? It’s just another way for those schools to make money.

I’m not really sure what this has to do with the article Caia posted.

That quote above is from posted article.

Lack of rural veterinarians, can be compensated by reducing number of Caribbean students that interested in solely in small animals practice in large cities, and admitting more applicants with rural, farm background.

And this

The reasoning is along the lines of "If you're exposing students to rural practice, it's not as formidable to commit to that type of practice," Stalley said. By comparison, "If all you've ever done is small animal practice and now you're expected to live in rural South Dakota, that's probably not going to be a good fit for you."

 

[JaynaAli]

I agree with Caia...it's not a lack of people interested in rural vet med, it's an issue with salaries in rural practice being $50,000-$60,000 with constant on-call because you're the only option for over 100 miles coupled with large student loan debt that drives students away. It doesn't matter how many people from rural backgrounds you admit or how hard you push it in your curriculum, if we can't make a living back home in those rural areas, we can't go back home. I have so many classmates who wanted to do large or mixed animal that are in larger towns/cities doing small animal because that's where they can make a decent living.

This is a super personal topic for me...I'm from a town of 800 people. Growing up I always thought I'd be a rural mixed vet and move to a slightly larger neighboring town and make it work. But once I got to vet school I realized that that wasn't what I wanted and I liked pathology more. I even had a serious job offer to be the 2nd vet at a mixed practice back home but I never really even considered it.

 

[Caiter92]

That quote above is from posted article.

Lack of rural veterinarians, can be compensated by reducing number of Caribbean students that interested in solely in small animals practice in large cities, and admitting more applicants with rural, farm background.

And this
Quote
The reasoning is along the lines of "If you're exposing students to rural practice, it's not as formidable to commit to that type of practice," Stalley said. By comparison, "If all you've ever done is small animal practice and now you're expected to live in rural South Dakota, that's probably not going to be a good fit for you."

I only skimmed the article earlier and missed that was a quote. But generally you actually want to indicate you’re directly quoting from the article, not just post a blob of text

 

[ukrainiandude]

I agree with Caia...it's not a lack of people interested in rural vet med, it's an issue with salaries in rural practice being $50,000-$60,000 with constant on-call because you're the only option for over 100 miles coupled with large student loan debt that drives students away. It doesn't matter how many people from rural backgrounds you admit or how hard you push it in your curriculum, if we can't make a living back home in those rural areas, we can't go back home. I have so many classmates who wanted to do large or mixed animal that are in larger towns/cities doing small animal because that's where they can make a decent living.

This is a super personal topic for me...I'm from a town of 800 people. Growing up I always thought I'd be a rural mixed vet and move to a slightly larger neighboring town and make it work. But once I got to vet school I realized that that wasn't what I wanted and I liked pathology more. I even had a serious job offer to be the 2nd vet at a mixed practice back home but I never really even considered it.

The university could sign a ten years contract with applicants to work in designated areas and accept those in separate quotas, also local municipalities that lack veterinarian could pay a tuition and/ or scholarships

 

[DVMDream]

The university could sign a ten years contract with applicants to work in designated areas and accept those in separate quotas, also local municipalities that lack veterinarian could pay a tuition and/ or scholarships

Doesn't work. We already have similar programs in place. You can't demand someone to work in a region that they can't make a living in. You think if a town can't support a full time vet that they'd be able to pay a vet's tuition??? That is comical.

 

[ukrainiandude]

Cost of living is usually lower in rural areas, and real estate prices might be a fraction of it in big cities.
Not to mention quality of air.

 

[JaynaAli]

Cost of living is usually lower in rural areas, and real estate prices might be a fraction of it in big cities.
Not to mention quality of air.

I'm definitely getting the impression that you haven't lived in a rural area and faced this challenge personally.

Edit: I had a passionate/frustrated reply here, but it's not even worth it. Suffice it to say, even if home prices are cheaper, everything else basically costs the same plus you've got added costs in obtaining goods...my parents drive 30-45 miles for groceries, 90+ miles to a hospital, and over 2.5 hours to the nearest airport because their town is so small. And vets in rural areas are way underpaid for their degree of education, which is the problem.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

Lack of rural veterinarians, can be compensated by reducing number of Caribbean students that interested in solely in small animals practice in large cities, and admitting more applicants with rural, farm background.

No, not really.....admitting more applicants with a rural or farm background doesn't really end up with more rural/farm vets. It's been tried, and it doesn't work. It doesn't hurt anything - the number of grads going in to farm animal/equine medicine are about the same.

Cost of living is usually lower in rural areas, and real estate prices might be a fraction of it in big cities.

Only the cost of housing is lower -- the rest of the costs of living are about the same. Retail prices from national or international stores are about the same, things cost more in shipping (while an urban business might get their supplies delivered for free, rural businesses often have to pay), and everyone spends more on gas to get to where they're going. While a business might save on things like real estate or taxes, they spend extra on things like transportation or energy (need a generator, etc).

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

No, not really.....admitting more applicants with a rural or farm background doesn't really end up with more rural/farm vets. It's been tried, and it doesn't work. It doesn't hurt anything - the number of grads going in to farm animal/equine medicine are about the same.

Only the cost of housing is lower -- the rest of the costs of living are about the same. Retail prices from national or international stores are about the same, things cost more in shipping (while an urban business might get their supplies delivered for free, rural businesses often have to pay), and everyone spends more on gas to get to where they're going. While a business might save on things like real estate or taxes, they spend extra on things like transportation or energy (need a generator, etc).

And a car, especially. In a city you can get away without one. In the country you absolutely need one, and one that can deal with weather since they don't plow out in bum**** (so a nice big all wheel drive and the mediocre gas mileage to go along with it).I have to drive my own trash to the dump (gas). I drive 45 min for my work. Drive 20 min to supermarket where stuff is just a expensive due to increased shipping costs inland. Etc.

Additionally. Most housing in rural areas is very old and has poor insulation and terrible heating/cooling options(read: expensiiiive). Window units, electric baseboard heat, etc. My electric bill in January of last year for my old 650sq foot house with electric baseboard heat was over $300.00. And this was with me only heating 1/2 to 2/3 of the house at one time.

Yeah. Guessing this guy has never lived in the rural US.

 

[DVMDream]

And a car, especially. In a city you can get away without one. In the country you absolutely need one, and one that can deal with weather since they don't plow out in bum**** (so a nice big all wheel drive and the mediocre gas mileage to go along with it).I have to drive my own trash to the dump (gas). I drive 45 min for my work. Drive 20 min to supermarket where stuff is just a expensive due to increased shipping costs inland. Etc.

Additionally. Most housing in rural areas is very old and has poor insulation and terrible heating/cooling options(read: expensiiiive). Window units, electric baseboard heat, etc. My electric bill in January of last year for my old 650sq foot house with electric baseboard heat was over $300.00. And this was with me only heating 1/2 to 2/3 of the house at one time.

Yeah. Guessing this guy has never lived in the rural US.

I don't even think this guy lives in the US.








But don't hold onto that "you don't need a car in the city" because you wouldn't get far in Phoenix without one. Our public transportation sucks here. Many big cities have public transportation but that doesn't necessarily mean it is any good or that it will even get you where you need to go. At least in this desert, don't have to worry about the snow plows. And driving in the city....yeah your work might only be 10 miles away, but it'll take you easily 30 minutes to get there. Place I've been at lately....21 miles away takes an hour to just over an hour to get to, no public transportation available.... definitely live in a big city.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

But don't hold onto that "you don't need a car in the city" because you wouldn't get far in Phoenix without one. Our public transportation sucks here. Many big cities have public transportation but that doesn't necessarily mean it is any good or that it will even get you where you need to go. At least in this desert, don't have to worry about the snow plows. And driving in the city....yeah your work might only be 10 miles away, but it'll take you easily 30 minutes to get there. Place I've been at lately....21 miles away takes an hour to just over an hour to get to, no public transportation available.... definitely live in a big city.

Yeah thats definitely true. And you can't exactly rely on public transportation when you're on call, etc. I guess I was thinking of places like NYC. SO worked in the SF Bay area when he was younger and traffic/gas costs there were just absurd.

 

[ukrainiandude]

I live in Canada.
For those curious.
@@@
I do apologize if I have offended anyone. I had no idea it was that bad in the USA.

As I was checking news on bbc

Exact numbers are always hard to come by but 553,742 people were homeless on a single night across the US in 2017, the Department of Housing and Urban Development said, the first rise in seven years. (The figure, however, was still 13% lower than in 2010.)

Declines in 30 states were overshadowed by big surges elsewhere, with California, Oregon and Washington among the five worst. Los Angeles, where the situation has been described as unprecedented, had more than 50,000 people
without homes, behind only New York City, which had some 75,000.

A deepening crisis on the streets of America


I guess if I were in the USA I would not want to work in California, Oregon, Washington, New York, and rural areas.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

I live in Canada.

So do I, and everything I said applies to rural and towns in Canada too. Doing relief work, I've worked in farm towns of 800 people and small towns of 8000 people, and I live in a big city with an acceptable transit system.

 

[Caia]

Think this

That would keep the class from increasing but I doubt they would decide to discontinue Caribbean students.

This would not change the number of rural vets, however. They've tried and failed at bringing in rural-based students and shoving rural practice down students' throats in order to increase rural mixed vets in Canada as well. It has similarly failed.

No one in the government or school administration can seem to comprehend this.