Playing the Game

[nick_carraway]

An article from the San Jose Mercury News about pre-meds who take classes away from their home institution: http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_9957224

We all know that it happens, but apparently it's prevalent enough to get in the newspaper.

The comments below the article from pre-meds vs. the public is a little more flavorful than the stuff you get on SDN too.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[HumidBeing]

Sorry, Server Not Found.

 

[nick_carraway]

Sorry, Server Not Found.

Thanks. Should work now.

 

[pianola]

True, true. And not just at Stanford.

 

[dienekes88]

There was an earlier thread about this.

By implication, since a SCU student took all his classes at SCU... by virtue of his attending a "lesser" school, he shouldn't be able to get into medical school. Bull. You never count out someone's school.

I have no doubt that it's easier at SCU. Take a look at how orgo is taught. Diels-Alder, Michael Addition, ozonolysis... it's the same wherever you are (some schools don't ask you to memorize the mechanisms and the movement of electrons, though). Some places, it's 20 multiple choice questions. Some schools have a couple 1-step mechanisms and a few fill-in-the-blanks. At a few schools, it's mainly free response multi-step synthesis problems. It's all the same material... tested differently.

However, you still have to perform better than all your peers to get that A.

If you beat out a bunch of kids who might otherwise get an A, don't you deserve an A for the knowledge you possess? That these kids might actually get B+'s and A-'s at Stanford while knowing more than the kid who got an A at SCU seems unfair given the emphasis placed on numbers in Med School Admissions.

 

[copperfrog09]

This made the news??

 

[Amaranthinemoxi]

There was an earlier thread about this.

I have no doubt that it's easier at SCU. Take a look at how orgo is taught. Diels-Alder, Michael Addition, ozonolysis... it's the same wherever you are (some schools don't ask you to memorize the mechanisms and the movement of electrons, though). Some places, it's 20 multiple choice questions. Some schools have a couple 1-step mechanisms and a few fill-in-the-blanks. At a few schools, it's mainly free response multi-step synthesis problems. It's all the same material... tested differently.

However, you still have to perform better than all your peers to get that A.

If you beat out a bunch of kids who might otherwise get an A, don't you deserve an A for the knowledge you possess? That these kids might actually get B+'s and A-'s at Stanford while knowing more than the kid who got an A at SCU seems unfair given the emphasis placed on numbers in Med School Admissions.

At my school we were required to take the American Chemistry Society Final exams, and then our final grade (more or less) was determined based on our performance on that test against a pool of national applicants.

 

[chitownGpremed]

Doesn't the MCAT help to be an "equalizer" in a sense, ie obviate some of the differences between the rigor of coursework found between schools?

 

[dienekes88]

At my school we were required to take the American Chemistry Society Final exams, and then our final grade (more or less) was determined based on our performance on that test against a pool of national applicants.

That's kind of odd, because you don't know the quality of the pool taking the exam, and the assumption (perhaps faulty) might be that it is a self-selecting pool of only the best students. If everyone who took chemistry took that exam... then you could say something about the ability to compare grades achieved at different schools (after linking final grades to performance on the exam).

I actually don't know anyone who took the exam. I suppose that in itself is neither here nor there given that I never asked anybody about it.

 

[dienekes88]

Doesn't the MCAT help to be an "equalizer" in a sense, ie obviate some of the differences between the rigor of coursework found between schools?

Kinda.

Some people are just really good at taking standardized tests...

 

[foster033]

At my school we were required to take the American Chemistry Society Final exams, and then our final grade (more or less) was determined based on our performance on that test against a pool of national applicants.

Was that curved at all? I remember at my undergrad we took it after ochem II and I think the highest anyone scored was ~60%...

our class was pretty difficult too and we covered a lot of material. I retook it a few years later at a different state school (I graduated from a small liberal arts school) and the material/tests were so much easier, not just b/c I had taken it before, we actually covered a lot less and the tests didn't go as in depth.

 

[WMD 172]

Im taking ochem right now at a different school, which is supposed to supposed to be a similar level institution, well dont I get a new instructor, and going into the final we have a class average in the high 40s bc of 9 and 10 step synthesis problems on tests...

sometimes it doesnt pay to play....

btw I am only taking it at this other school because I switched majors and want to graduate on time.

 

[Buckeye3]

There's no problem with people doing this. They need physics for the MCAT anyways, so I think the normal classes help in the end, at least by cutting down on outside studying before the MCAT. We have a similar thing going for the OChem series where some students will knock out all three quarters of lectures in a summer at a nearby, "less-competitive" university. If someone did this with genchem, they'd be in a serious hurt when it came study time junior year.

 

[dienekes88]

Im taking ochem right now at a different school, which is supposed to supposed to be a similar level institution, well dont I get a new instructor, and going into the final we have a class average in the high 40s bc of 9 and 10 step synthesis problems on tests...

sometimes it doesnt pay to play....

btw I am only taking it at this other school because I switched majors and want to graduate on time.

Hahaha. I hate to admit it, but I actually liked those problems. I like puzzles.

 

[WMD 172]

its not like the problems werent inherently hard, it j catches you off guard when the level of detail in class and in the hw is a 3 and the tests are an 11, and in a four week course alot of kids (including me) were slow to adjust study habits.

 

[Amaranthinemoxi]

Our department used some sort of formula to determine our final grade, but there were only two people either semester to get an A (and one of them got an A-)... out of 250+ kids...

It's kind of curved how the mcat is...

We have a similar exam for inorganic, and you have to get above some percentile to pass the class.

I think this test is only administered at American Chemistry Society accredited institutions... I could be mistaken...

Was that curved at all? I remember at my undergrad we took it after ochem II and I think the highest anyone scored was ~60%...

our class was pretty difficult too and we covered a lot of material. I retook it a few years later at a different state school (I graduated from a small liberal arts school) and the material/tests were so much easier, not just b/c I had taken it before, we actually covered a lot less and the tests didn't go as in depth.

 

[dienekes88]

its not like the problems werent inherently hard, it j catches you off guard when the level of detail in class and in the hw is a 3 and the tests are an 11, and in a four week course alot of kids (including me) were slow to adjust study habits.

Some places it's par for course to have a few synthesis problems and one of those synthesis/Rxn trees asking for reagents and/or intermediates.

Some places have 20 multiple choice questions.

You play with what you're dealt. Sometimes that involves "playing the game."