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The ultimate myth perpetuated by rice lovers and the media:
Cars are X% domestic and X% imported so it doesn't matter what you buy.
BS
Go look at the benefits of a domestic vs foreign autoworker...then try and tell me it doesn't matter which one you buy...
Plants in US:
Big 3 = 134
Toyota+Honda = 12
Average Wage (2006):
Big 3 = $32.57
Toyota+Honda = $24
Average Value of Benefits (2006):
Big 3 = $40.64
Toyota+Honda = $24
Some of you might want to consider how healthcare benefits of Americans will affect our profession.
Oh wait....I forgot...there's a shortage of pharmacists and reimbursement is at an all-time high...the insurers are even going to pay pharmacists to counsel! 🙄
Just take a look at how the Union is being forced into "concessions" e.g., higher co-pays for members.
"Oh, but we'll always have jobs...the baby-boomers are gonna need meds" ...well, they won't need them with a co-pay of 50%.
Cars are X% domestic and X% imported so it doesn't matter what you buy.
BS
Go look at the benefits of a domestic vs foreign autoworker...then try and tell me it doesn't matter which one you buy...
Plants in US:
Big 3 = 134
Toyota+Honda = 12
Average Wage (2006):
Big 3 = $32.57
Toyota+Honda = $24
Average Value of Benefits (2006):
Big 3 = $40.64
Toyota+Honda = $24
Some of you might want to consider how healthcare benefits of Americans will affect our profession.
Oh wait....I forgot...there's a shortage of pharmacists and reimbursement is at an all-time high...the insurers are even going to pay pharmacists to counsel! 🙄
Just take a look at how the Union is being forced into "concessions" e.g., higher co-pays for members.
"Oh, but we'll always have jobs...the baby-boomers are gonna need meds" ...well, they won't need them with a co-pay of 50%.
Every domestic abuser needs a battered wife, or maybe husband?
You are an outstanding proponent for socialism. Those domestic benefits are so high because of pensions. Do you expect to receive a pension as a pharmacist? Most would say union members could afford to tuck away a few dollars, especially if they don't have expensive student loan repayments. Your concern for the welfare of your fellow red-blooded Americans transcends your wallet. Let's build the pension into the price of the vehicle. Now that's altruism.
You are an outstanding proponent for socialism. Those domestic benefits are so high because of pensions. Do you expect to receive a pension as a pharmacist? Most would say union members could afford to tuck away a few dollars, especially if they don't have expensive student loan repayments. Your concern for the welfare of your fellow red-blooded Americans transcends your wallet. Let's build the pension into the price of the vehicle. Now that's altruism.
My wife is going to get a pension as a pharmacist...and the union is a very capitalist entity. They sell a commodity for the highest proce available.
That's great, your wife is set. I recognize unions are highly capitalistic, and I have no problems with unions. My socialist comment was more about paying for a currently inferior product with union members in mind.
I very much want to buy a domestic vehicle. Consumer Reports has demonstrated that most domestic cars have been average or below for the past decade. My last car was domestic and it was a lemon. Ford is the recent exception. The improvement in quality is remarkable, and if they keep it up I will strongly consider a Ford as my next vehicle.
Isn't buying a below-average quality domestic car similar to rewarding these bank executives for attempting to destroy the economy? By not purchasing a domestic vehicle, I'm saying make a better quality vehicle and I'll reconsider. Ford has improved, and I hope the rest will follow. Only then will I purchase a domestic vehicle. I refuse to be blinded by national pride. That's just foolish.
I very much want to buy a domestic vehicle. Consumer Reports has demonstrated that most domestic cars have been average or below for the past decade. My last car was domestic and it was a lemon. Ford is the recent exception. The improvement in quality is remarkable, and if they keep it up I will strongly consider a Ford as my next vehicle.
Isn't buying a below-average quality domestic car similar to rewarding these bank executives for attempting to destroy the economy? By not purchasing a domestic vehicle, I'm saying make a better quality vehicle and I'll reconsider. Ford has improved, and I hope the rest will follow. Only then will I purchase a domestic vehicle. I refuse to be blinded by national pride. That's just foolish.
Being as though buying foreign products is a major reason the US economy isn't at full strength, I don't think its very foolish at all. It's not pride, its self preservation. Personally, I've never driven any BUT Fords....except for one car that exploded in a Sam's Club parking lot....and they have never, ever let me down. The worst that's happened is a blown transmission at 130k miles on a Taurus.
I won't argue with that. I seek reliability, and my last vehicle was anything but reliable. When I purchased my current car, I had a 250 mile weekly commute and I wasn't willing to gamble. However, I will give domestic vehicles another chance.
I don't give a **** if the American auto industry dies.
Well...if it actually did...you would...unless you have the desire for the US economy to tank in a rather pathetic fashion...
Isn't it already tanking in a rather pathetic fashion? We hand money to one of the major financial firms in the nation, and what do they do with the lovely gift? AIG goes off to pay their executives bonuses as if it to say "good job you effed the rest of the nation so here's some more money." : /
The US auto industry has been tanking for the last 30 years. We have bailed them out a few times, but they don't learn and still can't compete with the foreign automakers. It's not worth saving.
The new Camaro looks pretty sick. I will have my Mazda until next November. Not sure what I'll decide to do but I doubt a new car will be in the works considering the vast amount of student loans on the horizon.
I was actually quite happy when the stock markets were tanking it in late 2008. I don't have any money in the stock markets. The time has come for the rich to fall.
I hate this bailout that Obama is doing because he's giving the money to the banks instead of giving it to the people. Give the money to the people, the people will use the money to pay off their debts, which pretty much gets money to the banks.
The US auto industry has been tanking for the last 30 years. We have bailed them out a few times, but they don't learn and still can't compete with the foreign automakers. It's not worth saving.
It's the windfall that's so scary. There are no major auto plants or manufacturer outlets in PA, but yet if the auto industry failed, Pennsylvania would lose 120,000 jobs as a result of the loss of steel, glass, and other materials that the auto industry uses. That's just in my neck of the woods.
But the estimate nationally is that 3 million jobs would be lost if the industry fails...and those are 3 million well paying jobs, too. It wouldn't be pretty. And for it to happen in the near future with the economy already shaky would be devastating.
I thought econ was a pre-req for pharm school?
You either slept in class or go to a piss poor pharmacy school.
Consumers spending their money on debt would be the worst thing to happen in this economy. The whole point of "stimulating" means consumers buying durable and non-durable goods.
I propose a law to allow verification by pharmacists in foreign locations. It will reduce the cost of the US healthcare system. Why pay Rph's in the US to do what someone in a third world country can, and at a fraction of the cost?
They already manufacture alot of meds overseas (see heparin) so what's to prevent verification going overseas?
Supertechs who scan scripts in and ring people up...central fill to reduce costs and deliver meds right to pt's door...several call centers with RPh's on the phone for all counseling needs (no one wants to bother leaving the house anyway) While all the foreign RPh's verify. New salary for domestic RPh: $50,000
"Oh, but that'll never happen" ............riiiiiight
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The foreign automakers would just set up shop to cover the difference. It's not like the american consumer will stop driving if the big 3 falls. The only difference to those industries would be whether their customers spoke japanese or german.
And workers will be hired to run those new auto plants, minus the insane UAW wages/benefits of course.
The foreign automakers would just set up shop to cover the difference. It's not like the american consumer will stop driving if the big 3 falls. The only difference to those industries would be whether their customers spoke japanese or german.
It probably wouldn't work like that. And why in God's name would anyone want an auto maker to theoretically open up in the US, pay the labor less, and send the extra profits back to some foreign country? That's a huge net loss. Not to mention the fact that most production would stay in foreign plants, anyway.
The same reason why Ford is building cars in Mexio -- cheaper. It's cheaper to make cars in the US (w/o the stupid labor union wage/benefits), than to make it in Japan / Germany and then ship it here. That's why Toyota/Honda are building plants over here.
I don't really care where the profit goes. It's a global economy now, especially between developed countries such as us and the japanese/germans, money flows into one country and out the other. It's better for us consumers if we can buy better cars and not have to spend tens of billions to bail out sick automakers that are paying stupid money to a bunch of blue collar workers with an over-developed sense of entitlement.
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This kid is obviously pretty short-sighted. The only way people like that would realize the impact of the domestic auto industry tanking is to break down how many of their patients' healthcare coverage is provided by an employer tied to the Big 3 and tier 1, 2 , and 3 suppliers.
also, keep in mind that bankrupcy does NOT equal going out of business. Chapter 11 bankrupcy would allow the automakers to restructure without being burdened by UAW contracts. Close/sell off the plants that are sitting idle, fire all the over entitled ones and hire some people who are motivated to work.
I guess you ignored the news that foreign automakers are asking their countries for bailouts too, eh? What do you have against blue collar workers? If you want to talk about entitlements...maybe we should immediately halt all Medicaid/Medicare spending? ($295 BILLION in 2004) You're short-sighted.
Giving millions to white collar workers at financial institutions is A-OK but bail out a company that provides good jobs to working Americans and it's heresy.
Stop calling people short sighted just because they don't agree with you.
I have nothing agains blue collar workers who actually work and don't feel entitled to out rageous wages, but UAW examplifies that kind of entitlement. And just for the record, I have problem with white collar who feel entitled as well. I am out raged by the bonuses for the financial institutes, those guys should be made to pay, not getting a fat check.
And suprisingly, I agree with you that the whole medicaid/medicare system is way too fat. Lazy people are using these social welfares system to sit on their lazy ass and squeezing out a dozen kids while we tax payers pay out of our noses.
My belief is against entitlement in general, be it UAW or investment bankers or medicaid rip offs. In my book, you work or you get nothing (unless you are physically handicapped.) 🙄
You've been pimped out by the media-hype big guy. They've already bitch-slapped you!
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2009043
But I honestly could care less what other people buy. As long as they understand and are aware of the fact that the success of foreign automakers comes with a price: American wages.
Perhaps the US should allow me to purchase all my meds from foreign pharmacies since they have less overhead and can provide the same drug at a fraction of the cost? If it's GEQ AB-rated...what's the difference? Why should I pay YOUR ass and have to come in to get my Rx when I can have it delivered to my door for 1/2 the $$$?
If this were to happen, should Americans not be blinded by national pride, like yourself?
I got a B+ in Economics thank you very much, albeit there was a crazy curve (I got a 65 on the midterm and a 60 on the final.)
Dang, thread turned contentious all of a sudden... I was just hoping for some good-natured import vs. domestic bashing. 
I feel that this country needs to preserve at least some of its industrial/manufacturing base, of which the auto industry is one of the last big concerns standing. With that said, I would be much happier with a smaller, healthier industry that can compete unreservedly with anyone, be it Japan or Germany (or South Korea, or India, or China...) than a figurative Ottoman Empire pre-WWI, simply propped up to preserve the balance of power.
The roots of the problem lie in the fact that at one time Ford, GM and Chrysler controlled practically the entire U.S. market (at one point GM by itself controlled 50-51%). At the time they could sell every car they built, so of course they would go out of their way to keep growing their production capacity and workforce. Now, with the fragmentation of the market among a larger number of players, the domestics still have the number of factories/divisions/employees/pensioners/etc. of a much larger company that they simply can't support anymore. This is why I agree that GM especially needs to seek Ch11 protection, completely reimagine their business, and adapt to the new world. If a tree isn't healthy enough to support all its branches, you start lopping off branches until the tree can recover, or the whole damn thing will die.
tl;dr - the Big Three should declare BK, tell the UAW to stick it in their ear, and follow their foreign competitors to the South. We GIT-R-DONE and we don't like unions.
Of course, then large portions of the North/Midwest turn into Haiti. Uh oh.
Anyway, here's a picher.
I feel that this country needs to preserve at least some of its industrial/manufacturing base, of which the auto industry is one of the last big concerns standing. With that said, I would be much happier with a smaller, healthier industry that can compete unreservedly with anyone, be it Japan or Germany (or South Korea, or India, or China...) than a figurative Ottoman Empire pre-WWI, simply propped up to preserve the balance of power.
The roots of the problem lie in the fact that at one time Ford, GM and Chrysler controlled practically the entire U.S. market (at one point GM by itself controlled 50-51%). At the time they could sell every car they built, so of course they would go out of their way to keep growing their production capacity and workforce. Now, with the fragmentation of the market among a larger number of players, the domestics still have the number of factories/divisions/employees/pensioners/etc. of a much larger company that they simply can't support anymore. This is why I agree that GM especially needs to seek Ch11 protection, completely reimagine their business, and adapt to the new world. If a tree isn't healthy enough to support all its branches, you start lopping off branches until the tree can recover, or the whole damn thing will die.
tl;dr - the Big Three should declare BK, tell the UAW to stick it in their ear, and follow their foreign competitors to the South. We GIT-R-DONE and we don't like unions.
Of course, then large portions of the North/Midwest turn into Haiti. Uh oh.
Anyway, here's a picher.
Dang, thread turned contentious all of a sudden... I was just hoping for some good-natured import vs. domestic bashing.
I feel that this country needs to preserve at least some of its industrial/manufacturing base, of which the auto industry is one of the last big concerns standing. With that said, I would be much happier with a smaller, healthier industry that can compete unreservedly with anyone, be it Japan or Germany (or South Korea, or India, or China...) than a figurative Ottoman Empire pre-WWI, simply propped up to preserve the balance of power.
The roots of the problem lie in the fact that at one time Ford, GM and Chrysler controlled practically the entire U.S. market (at one point GM by itself controlled 50-51%). At the time they could sell every car they built, so of course they would go out of their way to keep growing their production capacity and workforce. Now, with the fragmentation of the market among a larger number of players, the domestics still have the number of factories/divisions/employees/pensioners/etc. of a much larger company that they simply can't support anymore. This is why I agree that GM especially needs to seek Ch11 protection, completely reimagine their business, and adapt to the new world. If a tree isn't healthy enough to support all its branches, you start lopping off branches until the tree can recover, or the whole damn thing will die.
tl;dr - the Big Three should declare BK, tell the UAW to stick it in their ear, and follow their foreign competitors to the South. We GIT-R-DONE and we don't like unions.
Of course, then large portions of the North/Midwest turn into Haiti. Uh oh.
Anyway, here's a picher.
Couldn't have said it myself. Let them go through bankruptcy and rid themselves of UAW, other wise they'll be back with hat in hand asking for more tax payer's money couple of years down the road. 👍
I'm well aware of J.D. Power rankings. If you are clueless enough to think those awards aren't bought and sold, then you should remove said ignorance post haste.
I'll help: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...ed-cars/overview/best-and-worst-used-cars.htm
Yeah, it's data compiled from actual owners and not some charity award. I know that hurts, but you don't mind opening your wallet so more power to you.
As for the weak argument of foreign pharmacists taking our jobs; well, so be it. If that's what the market decides then I'll adapt and survive. I'll find a job in another field if I must. If someone thinks they have a free ride in pharmacy for the rest of their lives, then they're deluding themselves I don't expect anyone to protect my job, and you're a fool if you think anyone will protect yours. If the money is just right, we'll all get canned. Adapt and survive sucker.
Errrr...I hope my VW Passat CC performs better than its predecessors.
The 2003-2004 models, and 2006 redesign were low points. It's improved steadily since then, and the 2009 received an excellent initial quality rating. I think you'll be fine. If the predictions are wrong, at least the 4 year/50,000 mile warranty should help. It's really a beautiful car.
I did base my prediction upon the standard Passat data from this site: http://www.truedelta.com/latest_results.php
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So is this where you tell me that YOUR subjective, self-reported, voluntary survey is better than MY subjective, self-reported, voluntary survey? Good luck with that.
As far as wallets are concerned, I'll wager I'm paying less than anyone on these boards for my domestic SUV compared to a similar foreign SUV.
Cheap insurance, cheap payments, lifetime powertrain warranty. There would be alot less money in my pocket if the vehicle were foreign.
And I'm sorry you feel like a battered housewife because you got a lemon. Perhaps some lessons in used car buying will help next time, e.g., check the weatherstrips.
That's a J.D. Power ranking for 2009 cars. I'm glad Buick and Indian-owned Jaguar vehicles don't completely fall apart within a few months. I posted two sites with data for used cars from the past 10 years. Imports top every list for reliability. I'm glad you like your SUV. I don't care what price you paid, I'm referring to repair costs.
If you can look at what I posted and conclude that domestic vehicles have been more reliable than imports over the last 10 years, then I can't help you.
My domestic lemon was a new vehicle. I've done research. If domestics continue to improve, I'll look at them for my next purchase. I don't care what you buy, but don't imply that I'm guilty of treason because I wanted a reliable car.
If you can look at what I posted and conclude that domestic vehicles have been more reliable than imports over the last 10 years, then I can't help you.
My domestic lemon was a new vehicle. I've done research. If domestics continue to improve, I'll look at them for my next purchase. I don't care what you buy, but don't imply that I'm guilty of treason because I wanted a reliable car.
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Cheap insurance because insurance companies know that you'd have to be crazy to try to push these cars to the max. Hell, if I went with a Chevy Cobalt SS, I wouldn't dare go over 90 mph.
I've already gotten my Volkswagen CC to 135 mph, while still in 4th gear. I'm sure that I can get this car to 170 mph if I find an abandoned airport and a gas station that sells 100 Octane Fuel.
I wouldn't put anything higher than Ultra 94 from Sunoco in your car.
No 94 octane here in the mountains, and I had to settle for 89 octane today 🙁
I never buy that, either. What the hell do you expect to happen when a magazine tells its readers that certain cars are the best? They just perpetuate that line later that year when they send in the survey.
I'll put Ford up against any foreign maker in reliability. They are solid cars.
That's an interesting point, and I recognize it's a confounding factor. The other link I posted has data for actual repairs, not some potentially ambiguous "reliability rating." That shows Japanese imports as more reliable overall, but Ford is also very reliable.
GMs suck. I'll tell you that. The only GM I ever owned exploded in a Sam's Club parking lot. It was the damndest thing.
The domestic lemon I've referred to a few times in this thread was a GM. It was rotten to the core. I almost cracked the block while on the interstate because of a surreptitious coolant leak. I'll keep a respectful distance from GM until I'm convinced of massive improvements.
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[URL="http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=528313"]IF you want to read more about the exploding car[/URL]. It's an interesting story, anyway...
Ouch. I owned a '99 Grand Prix for several years and while it was a good car overall it too suffered from the infamous 3.8L cracked-intake-manifold-leaking-coolant problem. With that said, though, my dad has been driving an '00 Regal for years without issue.
Damn you, GM. Why do you abuse my loyalty? 🙁
The one thing I will commend American cars for is their durability in low speed crashes, which is why I'm afraid of parking in NYC because everyone parks so close to each other, and whenever these *******s with their Ford Crown Victorias with attached bullbars bump me, theres a chip on my bumper.
Or when I had my Honda, I rear-ended a Dodge pickup truck at 8 mph, no damage at all to him, I needed a ****ing new hood and bumper. (Basically what happened here was that we were at a stoplight, for some reason unknown to me I thought the light turned green or I thought I saw the Dodge in front of me moving, and I pressed the gas and hit him. It wasn't completely my fault, I swear if those two blondes that were walking half-naked had covered up a little, this would have never happened.)
Or when I had my Honda, I rear-ended a Dodge pickup truck at 8 mph, no damage at all to him, I needed a ****ing new hood and bumper. (Basically what happened here was that we were at a stoplight, for some reason unknown to me I thought the light turned green or I thought I saw the Dodge in front of me moving, and I pressed the gas and hit him. It wasn't completely my fault, I swear if those two blondes that were walking half-naked had covered up a little, this would have never happened.)
No, just a loan bill.
Better now than in four years?
From a report released today by the Dept of HHS:
I guess you all are right...it's the domestic automakers fault they actually have to pay for employee benefits.
I have seen the light. Therefore, after I turn in my Jeep I'm going to buy a foreign car so I too can reap the benefits of low-wage, uninsured laborers from Asia.
What was I ever thinking.
I guess you all are right...it's the domestic automakers fault they actually have to pay for employee benefits.
I have seen the light. Therefore, after I turn in my Jeep I'm going to buy a foreign car so I too can reap the benefits of low-wage, uninsured laborers from Asia.
What was I ever thinking.
So yeah, exciting times in the auto industry these past few days. I don't know if Chrysler is down for the count or not, but I'd like to see their deal with Fiat work out - not only to keep Chrysler alive, but to maybe give me the chance to check out a Fiat 500 one of these days.
The new CEO of GM seems to be taking a realistic approach to things so far. With the government stepping up to back warranties on new GM/Chrysler products, hopefully that will give them enough wiggle room to play hardball with bondholders/labor. I'd expect to see a bankruptcy filing within the next month or so... hope they can get their ducks in a row and come back as a smaller, healthier company.
The new CEO of GM seems to be taking a realistic approach to things so far. With the government stepping up to back warranties on new GM/Chrysler products, hopefully that will give them enough wiggle room to play hardball with bondholders/labor. I'd expect to see a bankruptcy filing within the next month or so... hope they can get their ducks in a row and come back as a smaller, healthier company.
