Please convince me not to do HPSP.

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Gulp. If I could do it all over again.... naw, I won't go there... I love my girl.

Ok, just read the thread - I didn't know you already had a significant other.. in that case, nix my suggestion. Honestly, you have to consider her opinion about milmed, and it sounds like a resounding no. So you'll need to find another way to do this. You might have to bite the bullet, dive in headfirst and pay off your debt as quickly as you possibly can.

Additionally, maybe you can convince the parents to loan you some money at low to zero interest rate.. just promise to pay for one vacation a year or something. Haha.

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Honestly, you have to consider her opinion about milmed, and it sounds like a resounding no.

IMHO: You need to consider (basically follow) your spouse's advice about your future. You do not need to consider your girlfriend/boyfriend's opinion unless you are planning to propose. It would be very stupid to make a career decision that will affect you 10 years out on the basis of a person who will, odds are, leave you in a year. If you are planning to propse, I personally think you should do it now so that you can make all of the major life decisions engendered by starting medical school, together. Just my opinion.
 
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First of all, the health care system is becoming more and more nationalized. With Obama pushing for a standardized health care system, ( for 8 years - followed by Hilary Clinton as a president for another 8 years) coupled with the fact that the economy is sprialing out of control, it is likely to happen in the near future.

How fast you re-pay the loans back would highly depend on what specialty you get into. If you get into Peds, psychiatry, or family practice, it will take almost 15 to 20 years to re-pay the loans back, and you are better off going to HPSP.
Objection - Speculation
 
Objection - Speculation
It's a reasonable eventallity to prepare for. There are tons of premeds on here that whine and moan that they're 'sure' that the government is going to have nationalized healthcare in a few years, leaving them with 300K in debt and an 80K salary with no option to moonlight. However when you politiely suggest that they do HPSP, which seemss like the only sane financial option if you're 'sure' medicine is going to be socialized by the time you gaduate, they run screaming from the idea.

My conclusion from this is that most premeds don't actually think any of this socialization crap is going to happen, but feel a perverse need to cast their overprivlidged selves as victims by overdramatizing various threats to their future career that they don't really believe in.
 
BTW, for background, I was also an ROTC cadet in college, so my interest in military service preceded my interest in medicine... But medicine was the reason I dropped out of the program (long story short: ROTC + HPSP = career in Army; not a good route if you're not 100% career committed) Really though, the process is just pretty hairy, and that kind of scared me off... at least for now.

I was also interested in the military before my interest in medicine. I really wanted to go into the Air Force and become a pilot; my life was surrounded by airplanes, and it was the only thing I could see myself doing from 6th grade to 11th grade. Long story short, having asthma doesn't help your applications to the service academies. :(

I also talked extensively to an Army ROTC recruiter, had planned to go to the ROTC orientation, and I just didn't feel right. I was very willing to do the military service, that was not an issue. Quite honestly, if I wasn't doing biomedical engineering (or any engineering) and interested in medical school, I would probably do ROTC.

ROTC/HPSP just wasn't a smart career move for me. The thing that really scared me away was the Army being able to choose the residencies for the population of HPSP, and that your breadth of skills really fatigue for many of the specialties. This is what I have heard from the military medicine forum for surgery and IM. When you are training for 8+ years for a job and you are LOOSING skills that you are expected to provide as a clinician, it makes absolutely no sense for me.

The bureaucracy probably would have driven me mad, even more so than the current American healthcare system.

Just remember: the reason they give these huge scholarships is because they get their monies worth out of you in service.
 
I was considering HPSP as well. I am 26, married, have a two year old, and my wife is pregnant with our second and is due in June. I'm going to go into debt big time, in other words.

I decided not to do it, or at least put off my decision. Here's why:

Consider other large decisions that you will make in your life: going to medical school, someday buying a house, getting married, buying a car, moving to a new place, getting a new job.

If you realized that any of these things was a mistake, you could get out of them. It wouldn't be without a negative consequence, but you could get out of them. You'd lose money if you had to get out of a house or a car. If your marriage was a mistake, you could end it with some personal anguish and stress accompanying the process. You could drop out of medical school, but you'd still have to foot the bill. Although there are consequences, you can still change your mind.

But, NOT WITH HPSP. YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR MIND! I was not sure enough about HPSP to make that big of a commitment. I didn't even realize the gravity of the commitment until just before I was ready to apply and I was really thinking that I was going to take the scholarship. I would be honored to be in the Armed Forces. I have many friends, and family that have served. But, I don't think that this is the time for me to sign up.
 
There's a military culture, and if you don't subscribe to it, you may be very unhappy being steeped in it for years practicing medicine.

On the flip side, having a free ride for an ultra-expensive school like BU is quite alluring. Have you considered alternatives such as loan forgiveness programs (practicing in rural area for a few yrs, etc.) post-graduation?
 
I am considering this very option, as me and my boyfriend are applying for Navy HPSP...we're kind of at an impasse right now because we're on opposite sides of the fence. My loans from NYMC are going to be about the same as yours, his will be about half that...but its still $450k + interest between the both of us when all is said and done. Its a terrifying number.

He's grown up with the romantic notion of being an officer in the Navy, and I'll be crazy not to say the money is tempting - but its not enough for me to sacrifice having the choice of specializing in whatever I want, not what is determined "by the needs of [insert branch here]". I have spoken to 7 different Navy doctors: only 1 didn't do a GMO tour, and 6 of them ended up in a residency that wasn't their top choice. That in and of itself is ridiculous, I don't care who is footing the bill. FYI, all branches still have GMO tours regardless of what your recruiter tells you.

A lot goes into military residency selection too, well beyond your LORs, Step I scores, and grades: bureaucratic red tape, well beyond what we'd have to deal with as civilian doctors. Its everywhere. I just don't think I'm cut out for it.

I'd take your girlfriends opinion into serious consideration as well if it means that much to you... despite the scary numbers and the relief it would be to have zero debt at graduation it isn't worth giving my life over to Uncle Sam for 8 years. Having ZERO control and hope that the military would place us together (though its likely they do their best if we're in the same branch)... I'd love to treat the people who give us the freedoms we have today, but not if I won't still be me at the end of it.
 
There are tons of premeds on here that whine and moan that they're 'sure' that the government is going to have nationalized healthcare in a few years, leaving them with 300K in debt and an 80K salary with no option to moonlight. However when you politiely suggest that they do HPSP, which seemss like the only sane financial option if you're 'sure' medicine is going to be socialized by the time you gaduate, they run screaming from the idea.
Yup, I feel troubled whenever I think about what the future holds for the next generation of physicians...

I am going to do the HPSP if I get accepted this coming cycle, but only because I am comfortable with the military lifestyle.

Yes, as others pointed out spending 4 years making 100K less than your peers is not that bad. For some people the psychological relief of not being in debt for +10 years is worth the trouble. I HATE being in debt, so that's another reason for me to do HPSP.

But trust me, as it has been repeated ad nauseum, DON'T DO IT (SOLELY) FOR MONEY.
 
300k of debt turns into about 370k after a four year residency (6.8% interest minus a $350 monthly "chip-off ie: joke" payment during residency). Someone please feel free to check my math, I'm not an accountant and I did the calculations roughly. I realize this may be high since not all 300k will accrue interest.

370k translates into the following loan repayments - assuming the same 6.8% interest:

$4,250/month for 10 years
$3,330/month for 15 years
$2,800/month for 20 years
$2,570/month for 25 years

Your 28, so after a four year residency you will be 36 and entering actual repayment. If you take the 15 year option, you'll be 51 when your debt free. It may sound worse than it actually is.

The average attending makes roughly 150k per year or about 120k after taxes. Your monthly payments add up to about 40k/year, so you'll actually take home around 80k. Thats not drowning in debt but its certainly not royally rich either considering you'll need to start stashing away serious amounts of income toward retirement at 36... which I calculated too.

Assuming a 25 year career and retiring at 61 years old.. you'll need to save $12k every year of your career in order to have 50k/year during retirement. 80 comes down to 68 just like that. Keep in mind once you elminate your debt at age 51, 68 turns into 108 every year until you retire and you'll have a lot more disposable income.

This is all certainly financially feasible without HPSP.

-----------------

Now if you go much below that average salary to me things becomes financially messy. Actually, I don't want to post the numbers they are so depressing...

But I can't help it.

Say you are one of the lowest paid PCP's in some saturated city making 100k taking home about 85k. Minus your 30k/yr for loans (went for the 25 year option this time) minus your 12k for retirement = 43k/year disposable income and you don't eliminate your debt until you retire. If you ask me, thats pretty freaking poor for all the training and hard work you'll put in.

Useful links:
Loan repayment calculator
Retirement calculator
 
The ONLY reason to go the HSPS route is that you are absolutely positive you want a career in military medicine. Even that may not be enough, because the military option will still be open to you (with loan forgiveness) after you finish med school and again after you finish residency. No need to sign a decade of your life away before you know what you will want out of your career and your life.

This 300k+ is not a gift. It is essentially a loan you will repay with military service at a place and in a field of their choosing.
 
Even that may not be enough, because the military option will still be open to you (with loan forgiveness) after you finish med school and again after you finish residency
Again, the FAP program and the loan forgiveness:

1) May not actually be open, depending on your residency. There aren't a whole lot of slots in these programs

2) Pay barely more than a 3rd of what you'd make via HPSP. You're talking about giving up a mortgage here.

Having ZERO control and hope that the military would place us together (though its likely they do their best if we're in the same branch)... I'd love to treat the people who give us the freedoms we have today, but not if I won't still be me at the end of it.

So you're aware, this only applies if you're married, they won't really try to place you together if you're just dating. Also, I'm not sure what 'if I won't still be me' means. They might move you, delay your training, or deploy you. Brainwashing, however, they don't do.
 
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So you're aware, this only applies if you're married, they won't really try to place you together if you're just dating. Also, I'm not sure what 'if I won't still be me' means. They might move you, delay your training, or deploy you. Brainwashing, however, they don't do.

Yes, I am aware. Another thing me and my SO have discussed ad nauseum. As for the "I won't still be me"...even minor things to the effect of having to take piercings out of my ears (to me) is objectionable. I understand the need for it, but the military has gone so far to permit hand tattoos but of course my ears are of more controversy.

Do they brainwash? I think the entire systematic military lifestyle is a "brainwash" in comparison to civilian life if you look at it in terms of the deprogramming and rebuilding of individuals going through basic training: that is a major principle behind the whole process. They don't yell at trainees just for the fun of it. But we're not here to argue that, nor am I criticizing it. The process serves a purpose. But to adjust from my lifestyle now into the military and back again will undoubtedly affect the person I know myself to be, not to mention the unimaginable cases and patients and situations I would have to witness/endure as a military doctor. I commend anyone able to do so, but I am becoming further and further convinced that I am not one of them.

Add that to the fact that my perceived use for the military is strictly based on "the needs of the Navy" and I have a pretty good chance of not being selected for the specialty I want to do, I'd probably grow more than a little bitter about not only military medicine, but the entire profession. GMO tours won't guarantee me the General Surgery or ENT residency I want if the selection board doesn't want me, and with so few options I'd be screwed. Civilian life has much more options without the restrictions imposed by the military because I "owe them one".
 
My conclusion from this is that most premeds don't actually think any of this socialization crap is going to happen, but feel a perverse need to cast their overprivlidged selves as victims by overdramatizing various threats to their future career that they don't really believe in.

Best post ever.
 
Do they brainwash? I think the entire systematic military lifestyle is a "brainwash" in comparison to civilian life if you look at it in terms of the deprogramming and rebuilding of individuals going through basic training: that is a major principle behind the whole process. They don't yell at trainees just for the fun of it. But we're not here to argue that, nor am I criticizing it. The process serves a purpose. But to adjust from my lifestyle now into the military and back again will undoubtedly affect the person I know myself to be, not to mention the unimaginable cases and patients and situations I would have to witness/endure as a military doctor. I commend anyone able to do so, but I am becoming further and further convinced that I am not one of them.

I think you've hit upon a common thread here: if it is all about YOU, then definitely do not join the military. The military is not about YOU, it is about serving a common good that some people realize is greater than themselves. Idealistic? Yes, but sometimes its what gets me up in the morning. When it boils down to it, this thread is about service, be it to the military, rural medicine or the like. If is all about YOU, then you won't be happy in any of these situations.

However, having spent my entire adult life in the military, I am most certainly brainwashed...
 
They use this damn "heal our 'warriors'" campaign crap, it's insulting to our soldiers and our country. What is this, Team America the freaking movie here?!

........ And with the buzz cuts the doctors wore. Damn, if I'm a military person seeing a doctor, let me see a freaking nerdy doctor, not another freaking soldier.

Well, are they not warriors? I don't understand how this is insulting to our soldiers/country. The goal of military medicine is to heal those who serve in battle (warriors, perhaps? I don't know, I'm not a doctor.) and maintain the health of the military and support staff. Sure, it's about the military, but the military is made up of people, so in essence it is about the people.

Military docs are soldiers, and they tend to have more respect from military personnel than civilian doctors from my experiences doing research at an army hospital. I think it's similar to ethnic groups seeking a doctor of their own ethnic group. They feel more comfortable. That's just my musings, though.

Anyway, I mean no disrespect to you, Maja. I generally enjoy your posts, etc., I just disagree with your view of military medicine. Probably because I'm slightly biased from two summers spent at an army hospital.
 
No, you're totally right. I can see how I would have come off as sort of an insensitive jerk there, and I didn't mean to... I was just being lazy and making a strong comment without substantiating or explaining it at all, sorry about that.

What I meant to say was that I just think the military does it's soldiers a disservice (while admittedly also doing somewhat of a SERVICE) by militarizing EVERYTHING the way they do. I mean many of the soldiers there aren't going to be soldiers forever, and I think it's healthy for them to maintain some level of self-identity OUTSIDE of the military, so they retain some of their humanity independent of the military.

I feel like so many soldiers are coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan, after being discharged, and they have no idea how to interface with general (non-military) society anymore. I feel that the over-militarization of all spheres of life, medical being one, has contributed to this difficulty for x-soldiers trying to reintegrate into society. They have military stores, military hospitals, military food halls, military car insurance, the list goes on and on... (of course there are opportunities for military personnel to interact outside of the military... I know that, there's no need to mention them) I just feel like, if I were a soldier, when I went to the doctor (which yes, I would expect the government to pay for, of course), I'd just want it to be a normal doctor, seeing me as a normal human being. So what if they couldn't relate to my battle stories? So what if I had to deal with some long-haired, liberal, pretty-boy/girl doctor for a few minutes? For a second, I wouldn't want to think about being a "warrior," but just a person - just a patient visiting their doctor. (Of course, I'm talking about hospital/clinic-based care here, not field care... but most military health care happens in the clinic/hospital, not in the field).

And the "warriors" campaign is just that - a campaign. It's wrong because it one-dimensionalizes the individual HUMAN BEINGS who serve in our military. The problem is that these are NOT warriors first, they are human beings first. They are human beings who, in many cases, are risking their lives for the country because it was the most economically feasible option for them (they are undeniably recruited disproportionately from areas with high unemployment rates). That's not to say that their service is worth ANY less than if they did it because they truly wanted to become soldiers above all else... but it is to say that they are not organically "warriors," and we shouldn't try to morph their self-identities into that of "warriors," as evidenced by the increased incidence of spousal-abuse and hate crimes committed by x-soldiers upon attempting to re-integrate into society.

... Of course, there are benefits to militarizing the medical care of members of the military, and there are benefits to launching a "warriors" campaign to boost morale inside of the military... but for some reason both approaches just seemed sub-optimal to me, and the latter just struck me as insulting the rich multi-dimensionality of individuals in our military.

... But yeah, even upon reading my brief expansion here, I wouldn't blame anyone for disagreeing or even thinking I'm being an a**hole. I guess it all stems from my sincere desire to have a world where nobody is willing to do physical harm to their fellow man versus the reality that there will always be violence. In other words, I suppose my seemingly irrational conclusions/feelings above reflect my own internal conflict between my sincere respect and gratitude for those who risk their lives to protect our nation and my distaste for the very premise of miltaries in general.

Either way, I can see why you disagree. In fact, in a sense I disagree with myself, here.

Well, are they not warriors? I don't understand how this is insulting to our soldiers/country. The goal of military medicine is to heal those who serve in battle (warriors, perhaps? I don't know, I'm not a doctor.) and maintain the health of the military and support staff. Sure, it's about the military, but the military is made up of people, so in essence it is about the people.

Military docs are soldiers, and they tend to have more respect from military personnel than civilian doctors from my experiences doing research at an army hospital. I think it's similar to ethnic groups seeking a doctor of their own ethnic group. They feel more comfortable. That's just my musings, though.

Anyway, I mean no disrespect to you, Maja. I generally enjoy your posts, etc., I just disagree with your view of military medicine. Probably because I'm slightly biased from two summers spent at an army hospital.
 
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Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this, I really appreciate it!

There are some things in life you just cannot afford. At a debt level of $300k, medical school becomes to me unaffordable. I.e., personally there is no amount of money that I could earn in the end that would make it worth it to carry that much of a debt burden. In my opinion, that is insane. Everybody's limit is different. A lot of people wouldn't pay $50k to go to med school.

The answer is that people who tell you not to do HPSP for the money are a lot of times saying that to make the position more noble. The military is infamous for this kind of attitude. In reality, it is a financially wise decision if you intend on earning a non-rockstar level of pay once you start practicing.
 
as evidenced by the increased incidence of spousal-abuse and hate crimes committed by x-soldiers upon attempting to re-integrate into society.

Do you have any non-anecdotal evidence that this actually happens? This is a really nasty stereotype to just assume.

Military docs are soldiers,

Military docs are servicemen, BTW. Army docs are Soldiers, Navy docs are Sailors, and AF docs are Airmen.
 
??? Alright man, you win. ???

Do you have any non-anecdotal evidence that this actually happens? This is a really nasty stereotype to just assume.



Military docs are servicemen, BTW. Army docs are Soldiers, Navy docs are Sailors, and AF docs are Airmen.
 
Do you have any non-anecdotal evidence that this actually happens? This is a really nasty stereotype to just assume.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

I don't have access to that journal at the moment, so I can't see the entire article. The subjects in the study were referred for a mental health evaluation due to PTSD, depression, etc. Many were probably related to deployment, if i had to guess. 53.7% reported conflicts involving "shouting, pushing, or shoving." I don't think the problem encompasses a huge portion of servicemen returning from deployment, but perhaps only a small population. It's hard to tell considering the study only had 199 subjects, and I didn't see anything about the statistics regarding civilians.

I don't know about hate crimes.
 
The term "warriors" (in the milmed setting) is used to describe soldiers returning from field duty, from war, from battle. With that in mind, read what I wrote and it should make a bit more sense. It was also one of the less important points I made. It could be thrown out without taking anything away from what I was arguing in essence.

Still, I can tell you're the argumentative type and you love to be right. You search for erroneous statements in arguments so you can say "nuh uhhhh!!!" instead of sitting back and saying "okay, I don't think that particular claim is accurate, but I can certainly understand the larger point being made here."

So that's why I said "you win" ahead of time, because I want you to be happy.

:clap:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

That's different, that's the effects of war. No one is arging that war can cause severe psychological damage (or at least I'm not). What this guy was arguing, though, was that military training and culture itself is what transforms members of our armed forces into wife beating degenerates. I disagree.
 
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The term "warriors" (in the milmed setting) is used to describe soldiers returning from field duty, from war, from battle. With that in mind, read what I wrote and it should make a bit more sense. It was also one of the less important points I made. It could be thrown out without taking anything away from what I was arguing in essence.

Still, I can tell you're the argumentative type and you love to be right. You search for erroneous statements in arguments so you can say "nuh uhhhh!!!" instead of sitting back and saying "okay, I don't think that particular claim is accurate, but I can certainly understand the larger point being made here."

So that's why I said "you win" ahead of time, because I want you to be happy.

:clap:
I did read what you wrote and it still makes no sense.
 
No, you're totally right. I can see how I would have come off as sort of an insensitive jerk there, and I didn't mean to... I was just being lazy and making a strong comment without substantiating or explaining it at all, sorry about that.

What I meant to say was that I just think the military does it's soldiers a disservice (while admittedly also doing somewhat of a SERVICE) by militarizing EVERYTHING the way they do. I mean many of the soldiers there aren't going to be soldiers forever, and I think it's healthy for them to maintain some level of self-identity OUTSIDE of the military, so they retain some of their humanity independent of the military.

I feel like so many soldiers are coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan, after being discharged, and they have no idea how to interface with general (non-military) society anymore. I feel that the over-militarization of all spheres of life, medical being one, has contributed to this difficulty for x-soldiers trying to reintegrate into society. They have military stores, military hospitals, military food halls, military car insurance, the list goes on and on... (of course there are opportunities for military personnel to interact outside of the military... I know that, there's no need to mention them) I just feel like, if I were a soldier, when I went to the doctor (which yes, I would expect the government to pay for, of course), I'd just want it to be a normal doctor, seeing me as a normal human being. So what if they couldn't relate to my battle stories? So what if I had to deal with some long-haired, liberal, pretty-boy/girl doctor for a few minutes? For a second, I wouldn't want to think about being a "warrior," but just a person - just a patient visiting their doctor. (Of course, I'm talking about hospital/clinic-based care here, not field care... but most military health care happens in the clinic/hospital, not in the field).

And the "warriors" campaign is just that - a campaign. It's wrong because it one-dimensionalizes the individual HUMAN BEINGS who serve in our military. The problem is that these are NOT warriors first, they are human beings first. They are human beings who, in many cases, are risking their lives for the country because it was the most economically feasible option for them (they are undeniably recruited disproportionately from areas with high unemployment rates). That's not to say that their service is worth ANY less than if they did it because they truly wanted to become soldiers above all else... but it is to say that they are not organically "warriors," and we shouldn't try to morph their self-identities into that of "warriors," as evidenced by the increased incidence of spousal-abuse and hate crimes committed by x-soldiers upon attempting to re-integrate into society.

... Of course, there are benefits to militarizing the medical care of members of the military, and there are benefits to launching a "warriors" campaign to boost morale inside of the military... but for some reason both approaches just seemed sub-optimal to me, and the latter just struck me as insulting the rich multi-dimensionality of individuals in our military.

... But yeah, even upon reading my brief expansion here, I wouldn't blame anyone for disagreeing or even thinking I'm being an a**hole. I guess it all stems from my sincere desire to have a world where nobody is willing to do physical harm to their fellow man versus the reality that there will always be violence. In other words, I suppose my seemingly irrational conclusions/feelings above reflect my own internal conflict between my sincere respect and gratitude for those who risk their lives to protect our nation and my distaste for the very premise of miltaries in general.

Either way, I can see why you disagree. In fact, in a sense I disagree with myself, here.


The term "warriors" (in the milmed setting) is used to describe soldiers returning from field duty, from war, from battle. With that in mind, read what I wrote and it should make a bit more sense. It was also one of the less important points I made. It could be thrown out without taking anything away from what I was arguing in essence.

Still, I can tell you're the argumentative type and you love to be right. You search for erroneous statements in arguments so you can say "nuh uhhhh!!!" instead of sitting back and saying "okay, I don't think that particular claim is accurate, but I can certainly understand the larger point being made here."

So that's why I said "you win" ahead of time, because I want you to be happy.

Summary

You: "Our nation's servicemen have been brainwashed into a bunch of identical wifebeating warmongers who can't possibly interact with society because of military car insurance. I'm offended by the word warrior, by military doctors with short hair, and by everything I've just written. I just love peace so much, I can't help myself."

Me: "Um, what? Most of that's not true and nothing you wrote makes sense"

You: "You're one of them 'argumentitive' types, ain't ya?"
 
If you were trying to be funny, I'd say you succeeded, I laughed at that. But if you're serious that NOTHING I wrote makes sense, then I will just have to respectfully disagree with you there, man. Looking back on it, there are major holes, but "nothing" makes sense? Hmm...

Just a total shot in the dark here, but you wouldn't by any chance happen to be republican or libertarian, would you?

Summary

You: "Our nation's servicemen have been brainwashed into a bunch of identical wifebeating warmongers who can't possibly interact with society because of military car insurance. I'm offended by the word warrior, by military doctors with short hair, and by everything I've just written. I just love peace so much, I can't help myself."

Me: "Um, what? Most of that's not true and nothing you wrote makes sense"

You: "You're one of them 'argumentitive' types, ain't ya?"
 
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Just a total shot in the dark here, but you wouldn't by any chance happen to be republican or libertarian, would you?
I'm not a big fan of labels, but I tend to vote Democrat. I'm on Navy HPSP.

Also I noticed you're accepted at BU! .Congrats!
 
I come from a Navy family. I have great respect for people in the military. However, I don't have great respect for the way many aspects of the military is run. To the extent that it matters (and I'm not knowledgeable to know if it does), the hospital I was referring to was an Army hospital.

Anyhow, had I of chosen to do the HPSP, it's likely I'd be arguing against anyone who bashed the military as well. Not to say that that is why you are, but, yeah...

I just hope I'm as smart as you and have time to post on SDN and do well in medical school. Somehow I seriously doubt that will be the case, though.

I'm not a big fan of labels, but I tend to vote Democrat. I'm on Navy HPSP.
 
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I come from a Navy family. I have great respect for people in the military. However, I don't have great respect for the way many aspects of the military is run. To the extent that it matters (and I'm not knowledgeable to know if it does), the hospital I was referring to was an Army hospital.

Anyhow, had I of chosen to do the HPSP, it's likely I'd be arguing with anyone who bashed the military as well. Not to say that that is why you are, but, yeah...

I just hope I'm as smart as you and have time to post on SDN and do well in medical school. Somehow I seriously doubt that will be the case, though.
Was it the loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity or personal courage you had a problem with?
 
Yep, that's EXACTLY what it was. Something about loyalty and selflessness just really rub me the wrong way. :confused:

Was it the loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity or personal courage you had a problem with?
 
I'm totally kidding man. Anyway, I don't want to argue anymore. I'm sorry. Okay, my entire blurb didn't make sense. Okay. I'm sorry I wrote anything.

Joking or serious biznus?
 
1. NotAndrew, quit being annoying. majahops clearly didn't mean to insult anyone and you are just being a PITA at this point. eff off.

Is it really that hard to type out pain in the ass?

Also: Blocked!!! Blocked!!!
 
As a Sailor who has spent the last 6 years of his life in the Navy Healthcare system, I can share my opinion. I chose not to persue the scholarship or go to UHSUS for many reasons. The main reason was lifestyle and personal freedom. I have served with 9 HPSP officers, 8 of whom said point blank, "If you dont want to be in the military, the money is not worth it." I think this speaks very highly to the importance of considering your personal happiness. I dont know where all of these physicians attended, so Im not sure if they had 300K debt but three did go to osteopathic schools, who generally have pretty high tuition rates. I can even get a couple of their email addresses if you wish. Good luck with your decision.
 
It does make sense, and I probably need to work on seeing it that way. Thank you, seriously.

majahops I feel kinda sad about the libertarian comment :( :( you hold grudges don't you? :laugh: I hope you don't see this as an argument but just try to follow me here: when someone disagrees with you, it doesn't mean they don't like you or are passing judgment on you...you seem to think it works that way :confused:

Most of my closest friends hold very different views than I do...that's part of the reason I enjoy talking to them....at the same time there are people I agree with about many things and well, yeah, not so much...

does that make sense?
 
Have you thought about talking to BU about a funded MD/PhD.

It seems like it has similar benefits to the Army - tuition paid, stipend etc.. except after it, you have all the freedom to do whatever specialty you want, or even go into a non-clinical job because you won't have the debt hanging over you.

I'll be in the same position as you, but look at this way. You'll get your expenses paid + 120K/4 yrs. So thats roughly ~ 800K the army is giving you for 4 years of medical school + 4 years of service (assuming you get paid the same during residency).

That works out to about 100K/yr the army is giving you for 8 years. Suppose you go into heme-onc like you suggested. Assuming you make 300K and can clear 200K after tax. After living expenses, You can probably pay off your loans in 3 years. Not too shabby.

So is it really worth it to lose your freedom and probably in the LONG RUN, make even less money in the army?
 
You make good points all around and I thank you for sharing them with me (are you planning on going to BU? If so, holler at your boy man - PM). I'm 28, so doing Oncology in itself is a stretch in years, but if I add the PhD onto that, woah nelly! Still, I see what you're saying, it'd be a great deal.

Have you thought about talking to BU about a funded MD/PhD.

It seems like it has similar benefits to the Army - tuition paid, stipend etc.. except after it, you have all the freedom to do whatever specialty you want, or even go into a non-clinical job because you won't have the debt hanging over you.

I'll be in the same position as you, but look at this way. You'll get your expenses paid + 120K/4 yrs. So thats roughly ~ 800K the army is giving you for 4 years of medical school + 4 years of service (assuming you get paid the same during residency).

That works out to about 100K/yr the army is giving you for 8 years. Suppose you go into heme-onc like you suggested. Assuming you make 300K and can clear 200K after tax. After living expenses, You can probably pay off your loans in 3 years. Not too shabby.

So is it really worth it to lose your freedom and probably in the LONG RUN, make even less money in the army?
 
You make good points all around and I thank you for sharing them with me (are you planning on going to BU? If so, holler at your boy man - PM). I'm 28, so doing Oncology in itself is a stretch in years, but if I add the PhD onto that, woah nelly! Still, I see what you're saying, it'd be a great deal.

I'll be going to Wayne State as an out-of-stater :eek:. Ridiculous tuition there for OOS. But I worked it out, and in the long run, it'll be OK. Especially since I'll have a spouse who is working so that will offset some of the debt.

and 28 is young! If you're 28 now, you'll probably be 37 by the time you become an Oncologist which is not out of this world.

Another option is that if you do IM, you can maybe go to a rural area for 1-2 years. They pay quite a bit b/c of the physician shortage. Pay off your loans and after that do a fellowship.
 
Unless you're making 250-300k per year for 4 years after residency, the hpsp is a better deal financially.
 
BU's MD/PhD program isn't funded like that. You would be better off going to the MD/PhD program of your other schools.
 
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