Matthew9Thirtyfive

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And what is the deal with airline food?!
What's the deal with toasters? Bread goes in, toast comes out! Where does the bread go?
 

Goro

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LizzyM scores represent a guideline, not the Ten Commandments.

The median acceptee to MD schools has a LizzyM of 68. You are above avg. Harvard's median matriculant LizzyM = 75; Stanford is a 74. You are in striking distance for all top 20s. There aren't too many schools "far above" your own score. So your thesis is rather bankrupt.




What's the big deal with Lizzy M scores? Honestly, I have a score of around 72... I've received 10 interview invitations at this point, and all but one of them have Lizzy M scores above mine (some are FAR above mine). Please, everyone, apply to schools that are a good fit for you and whose values match your own experiences.
 

Matthew9Thirtyfive

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Oi, I don't think anyone has ever said that a LizzyM score is the end-all-be-all of med school applications, but that it's a guideline to be used for the majority of applicants to optimize their options and chances. :eyebrow:
I'm going a step farther and calling a bluff... Nobody with a 3.8 515 has 10 interviews at schools that are way above "their LizzyM". There aren't even 10 schools I can think of where those stats aren't median or close to it.
You guys are ruining this thread.
 

efle

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Nobody with a 3.8 515 has 10 interviews at schools that are way above "their LizzyM". There aren't even 10 schools I can think of where those stats aren't median or close to it.
Bingo, someone with, say, a 3.6 / 36 isn't disproving the value of LizzyM as a guideline by getting interviews at 3.8 / 37 avg schools. This is a ridiculous thread
 

Mad Jack

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What's the big deal with Lizzy M scores? Honestly, I have a score of around 72... I've received 10 interview invitations at this point, and all but one of them have Lizzy M scores above mine (some are FAR above mine). Please, everyone, apply to schools that are a good fit for you and whose values match your own experiences.
Congratulations, you are an anecdote. The point of LizzyM scores is so that people have a better idea of where to target their app, and they do not factor in intangibles (everything from URM status to research to unique experiences etc). For a generic candidate with nothing special about them, they will be far more accurate, and sticking your competitive zone with a few apps thrown to reaches is the best way to utilize resources for those of us without infinite monies and time.
 

libertyyne

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LizzyM life forever
 

Chelsea FC

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What's the deal with Ovaltine? The jar is round...the mug is round...it should be called 'Round-tine'. ~Bania
 
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You don't know what the big deal is, but you managed to read enough about it to not only calculate your LizzyM score, but also find those of the schools that you applied to. That's funny.
Yes, exactly. I read about it, calculated my score, and totally stressed myself out about it. And for what?? It clearly has had no influence over which schools are interested in me.
 

efle

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Oi, I don't think anyone has ever said that a LizzyM score is the end-all-be-all of med school applications, but that it's a guideline to be used for the majority of applicants to optimize their options and chances. :eyebrow:
I suppose that's fair. But I still think people should worry about it a little bit less.
 
OP
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LizzyM scores represent a guideline, not the Ten Commandments.

The median acceptee to MD schools has a LizzyM of 68. You are above avg. Harvard's median matriculant LizzyM = 75; Stanford is a 74. You are in striking distance for all top 20s. There aren't too many schools "far above" your own score. So your thesis is rather bankrupt.
Okay, I guess I understood a 2-3 point difference to be significant. But perhaps it's not, after all.
 

Ismet

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Yes, exactly. I read about it, calculated my score, and totally stressed myself out about it. And for what?? It clearly has had no influence over which schools are interested in me.
:bang:

For people who understand the usage of the LizzyM score, it's a useful tool to determine what schools to apply to based on your MCAT and GPA and the schools' average MCAT and GPA. It clearly worked as intended for you. Your score is 72, typically you find schools within 10% of your score. ALL of the top schools are within 10% of your score.

And, clearly, stats are not the be-all end-all. It's not a hard and fast rule.
 

Cyberdyne 101

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Bingo, someone with, say, a 3.6 / 36 isn't disproving the value of LizzyM as a guideline by getting interviews at 3.8 / 37 avg schools. This is a ridiculous thread
Really doe. A 3.6/36 (especially from a well known grade deflating school ;)) is certainly competitive!
 
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Lost In Transcription

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:bang:

For people who understand the usage of the LizzyM score, it's a useful tool to determine what schools to apply to based on your MCAT and GPA and the schools' average MCAT and GPA. It clearly worked as intended for you. Your score is 72, typically you find schools within 10% of your score. ALL of the top schools are within 10% of your score.

And, clearly, stats are not the be-all end-all. It's not a hard and fast rule.
this is somewhat confusing to me. Why is it reasonable to say 10%? I'm a 70 and it always says Harvard is one of the schools I could apply to within 10%...which obviously someone with a 513 and 3.8 will not be able to do unless they are URM and started a non profit and also an orphanage.

What do you think is a better cutoff?
 

libertyyne

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this is somewhat confusing to me. Why is it reasonable to say 10%? I'm a 70 and it always says Harvard is one of the schools I could apply to within 10%...which obviously someone with a 513 and 3.8 will not be able to do unless they are URM and started a non profit and also an orphanage.

What do you think is a better cutoff?
I would say 2 points, 3 if you are feeling frisky, and 4 if you are a good fit.

If you compare acceptance LizzyMs to matriculant lizzyMs the average Delta is 1.59, so 2 is probably a good indicator of your chances.

Honestly, I would look at where you are the weakest and compare that to their 10th percentile.

In my example I looked at their 10th percentile GPA's . If I was below that even if I was a lizzyM match I am probably not going to get an interview because their internal rubric probably assigns a large value to that based on acceptance data.YMMV.

Edit: grayed out because LizzyM made a clear suggestion in another thread stating applying to schools 1 point below your score.
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive

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I would say 2 points, 3 if you are feeling frisky, and 4 if you are a good fit.

Honestly, I would look at where you are the weakest and compare that to their 10th percentile.

In my example I looked at their 10th percentile GPA's . If I was below that even if I was a lizzyM match I am probably not going to get an interview because their internal rubric probably assigns a large value to that based on acceptance data.
What about things like vet status? I know they say vet status can give you a boost, but how much? An extra point? Two?
 

libertyyne

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What about things like vet status? I know they say vet status can give you a boost, but how much? An extra point? Two?
I have no idea on how to factor that in, I have no data to confirm or deny. Maybe a one point? take that with a grain of salt. Maybe it is like URM where all bets are off? Maybe one of the adcom members on here can chime in, I would think it really depends on the schools mission. If diversity is in the mission statement its probably a good indicator. But once again ,I have no numbers to go by.
 

Ismet

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this is somewhat confusing to me. Why is it reasonable to say 10%? I'm a 70 and it always says Harvard is one of the schools I could apply to within 10%...which obviously someone with a 513 and 3.8 will not be able to do unless they are URM and started a non profit and also an orphanage.

What do you think is a better cutoff?
Again, it's a guideline. People are expected to use their judgment as well.

The SDN LizzyM calculator is defaulted to 10% of score. Given that I haven't had to go through the process of picking med schools to apply to in 5+ years, I'm not as up to date on the current suggested range of LizzyM scores to look at.
 
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Ismet

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AnatomyGrey12

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OP- "guys don't look at LizzyM because I have a good one and some schools that are also good have sent me some"
 

AnatomyGrey12

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I think everyone except OP is basically on the same page with regards to the usefulness of the LizzyM score.

Let's go back to talking about bread.
I have recently gained an appreciation for rye. A good Reuben is a beautiful thing
 

NonTrad16

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I have recently gained an appreciation for rye. A good Reuben is a beautiful thing
I prefer banana.

I love sandwiches. Sandwiches are easy to eat, but I hate sandwiches at New York delis; too much meat on the sandwich. It's like a cow with a cracker on either side. Walk in, order a pastrami sandwich.
"Alright, anything else?"
Mitch: "Yeah, a loaf of bread and some other people!"
"What kinda bread?"
Mitch: "Rye. No, banana. You got banana bread back there?"
"What kinda cheese?"
Mitch: "Cottage."
"Get out! I'm not makin' a banana bread, pastrami, cottage cheese sandwich! That would severely ruin my reputation!"
-Mitch Hedberg
 

NonTrad16

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Just because I feel like I shouldn't quote-drop and run...

Yes, exactly. I read about it, calculated my score, and totally stressed myself out about it. And for what?? It clearly has had no influence over which schools are interested in me.
So you, as someone with a score ~4 points over the average acceptance value, got freaked out. Just because you (unjustifiably) got freaked out, that doesn't mean the metric has no use for other people. It's wise for someone with a LizzyM of 68 to be cautious applying to Harvard. How someone with a LizzyM of 72 will fare applying to Drexel is less clear, but for efficiency sake (money, time, etc)... there are probably options that fit better.

The process is nuanced, and just because you got a good response with high stats, that doesn't really suggest people should abandon it. People also get in without shadowing, volunteering, etc. If we're trying to educate people on how to have the best cycle possible, it's better they focus on fit, which includes their stats.
 

WedgeDawg

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LizzyM score is a great, easy way to determine if you're competitive for a school based on stats alone. It has great utility and is probably the most helpful and widely used heuristic for making a school list. If you're trying to go beyond stats, I wouldn't recommend trying to modify the LizzyM score itself with +whatevers - I would instead recommend using A) MSAR + your own judgment or B) my scoring system
 

LizzyM

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Bump, please help

stats are 3.47 520 mcat, complete at 19 places
You have a MCAT that gets noticed but a GPA that might get you screened out. There might be a story behind the GPA and that might get you some traction but many schools want to a "72" that is more balanced between GPA and MCAT. A low GPA, in particular, suggests that the student might have a problem with working hard over a long period.
 
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libertyyne

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You have a MCAT that gets noticed but a GPA that might get you screened out. There might be a story behind the GPA and that might get you some traction but many schools want to a "72" that is more balanced between GPA and MCAT. A low GPA, in particular, suggests that the student might have a problem with working hard over a long period.
What about a 3.55 , 518?Would that be considered more balanced?
 

zerox117

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What's the big deal with Lizzy M scores? Honestly, I have a score of around 72... I've received 10 interview invitations at this point, and all but one of them have Lizzy M scores above mine (some are FAR above mine). Please, everyone, apply to schools that are a good fit for you and whose values match your own experiences.
Congrats on the II's OP. Hope all goes well for you!
 
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Gurby

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What's the big deal with Lizzy M scores? Honestly, I have a score of around 72... I've received 10 interview invitations at this point, and all but one of them have Lizzy M scores above mine (some are FAR above mine). Please, everyone, apply to schools that are a good fit for you and whose values match your own experiences.
 

LizzyM

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tuco's revenge

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GUYS OP IS RIGHT! LizzyM scores make NO sense. please allow me to demonstrate:

lets do some basic math to calculate my LizzyM:
so, if the equation is: LizzyM = (GPA x 10) + MCAT

and my GPA is a 1.0
and my MCAT is a 473

my LizzyM = (1.0 x 10) + 473 = 483

I have a LizzyM of 483 and have 0 II!! OP has a LizzyM of 72 and 10II. See? what is this sorcery!!! LizzyM scores are a hoax and I just DEBUNKED it!

from now on we use TucoR scores

TucoR = (goodness of fit of med school on a scale of -7 to 84) x (shared values with med school on a scale of 34 to 674.8) - (1/(LizzyM score)) x 100% = your chances of getting into a specific med school
 

Lucca

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GUYS OP IS RIGHT! LizzyM scores make NO sense. please allow me to demonstrate:

lets do some basic math to calculate my LizzyM:
so, if the equation is: LizzyM = (GPA x 10) + MCAT

and my GPA is a 1.0
and my MCAT is a 473

my LizzyM = (1.0 x 10) + 473 = 483

I have a LizzyM of 483 and have 0 II!! OP has a LizzyM of 72 and 10II. See? what is this sorcery!!! LizzyM scores are a hoax and I just DEBUNKED it!

from now on we use TucoR scores

TucoR = (goodness of fit of med school on a scale of -7 to 84) x (shared values with med school on a scale of 34 to 674.8) - (1/(LizzyM score)) x 100% = your chances of getting into a specific med school
Wake up sheeple