Please Help: PharmD to DO

[alwaysastudent]

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Hi everyone, I'm in a bit of a quandary as far as what I should do, so any advice would be appreciated (especially from those who have gone through this before). Here's the deal, I've been accepted to several pharmacy schools recently, but my gut feeling is telling me to go for DO as I will really enjoy the profession. I have many years of work and volunteer experience in hospitals as well as pharmacies.

My major concern is my GPA is on the low end according to PharmCAS (averages everything like AMCAS). My PharmCAS stats are as followed:

sGPA: 2.85 (PharmCAS GPA) - I have retaken all my B's and below courses (60 units) and have gotten all A's on them, so if I put them into AACOMAS, I'm sure it would be above a 3.0.
cGPA: 3.1 (PharmCAS GPA)
PCAT score: 90%ile Composite

If I end up going for medical school, I intend to take more science courses to beef up my GPA. I also plan to take the MCAT this coming August for the 2014-2015 application cycle. My questions are...

1. Do I have a chance with this GPA?
2. I intend to apply to some of the schools that accepted me for Pharmacy School, would that hurt my chances?
3. Any insight will be much appreciated!

 

[Dreamstoo]

Hi everyone, I'm in a bit of a quandary as far as what I should do, so any advice would be appreciated (especially from those who have gone through this before). Here's the deal, I've been accepted to several pharmacy schools recently, but my gut feeling is telling me to go for DO as I will really the profession. I have many years of work and volunteer experience in hospitals as well as pharmacies.

My major concern is my GPA is on the low end according to PharmCAS (averages everything like AMCAS). My PharmCAS stats are as followed:

sGPA: 2.85 (PharmCAS GPA) - I have retaken all my B's and below courses (60 units) and have gotten all A's on them, so if I put them into AACOMAS, I'm sure it would be above a 3.0.
cGPA: 3.1 (PharmCAS GPA)
PCAT score: 90%ile

If I end up going for medical school, I intend to take more science courses to beef up my GPA. I also plan to take the MCAT this coming August for the 2014-2015 application cycle. My questions are...

1. Do I have a chance with this GPA?
2. I intend to apply to some of the schools that accepted me for Pharmacy School, would that hurt my chances?
3. Any insight will be much appreciated!

I have some friends who were former pre-meds but decided to become pre-pharmacy after their gpa turned out to be between a 3.3 to a 3.5 (I still think it was premature of them to do that, their GPAs aren't that bad at all) but honestly with a 3.1/2.85 you might be pushing your buttons unless you can end up with a very solid MCAT score.

 

[bionerd89]

Hi everyone, I'm in a bit of a quandary as far as what I should do, so any advice would be appreciated (especially from those who have gone through this before). Here's the deal, I've been accepted to several pharmacy schools recently, but my gut feeling is telling me to go for DO as I will really enjoy the profession. I have many years of work and volunteer experience in hospitals as well as pharmacies.

My major concern is my GPA is on the low end according to PharmCAS (averages everything like AMCAS). My PharmCAS stats are as followed:

sGPA: 2.85 (PharmCAS GPA) - I have retaken all my B's and below courses (60 units) and have gotten all A's on them, so if I put them into AACOMAS, I'm sure it would be above a 3.0.
cGPA: 3.1 (PharmCAS GPA)
PCAT score: 90%ile Composite

If I end up going for medical school, I intend to take more science courses to beef up my GPA. I also plan to take the MCAT this coming August for the 2014-2015 application cycle. My questions are...

1. Do I have a chance with this GPA?
2. I intend to apply to some of the schools that accepted me for Pharmacy School, would that hurt my chances?
3. Any insight will be much appreciated!

It all mostly depends on your MCAT.

 

[alwaysastudent]

I have some friends who were former pre-meds but decided to become pre-pharmacy after their gpa turned out to be between a 3.3 to a 3.5 (I still think it was premature of them to do that, their GPAs aren't that bad at all) but honestly with a 3.1/2.85 you might be pushing your buttons unless you can end up with a very solid MCAT score.

I see. I'm not planning to apply to MD schools, though. I know I will have no chance with that GPA for MD schools; however, with DO schools, I know my GPA will be higher than 3.0 with grades replacement.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

It's hard to evaluate your sgpa without knowing what it would be with the retakes. I'm assuming the cgpa would be the same for pharm and MD/DO purposes.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Hi everyone, I'm in a bit of a quandary as far as what I should do, so any advice would be appreciated (especially from those who have gone through this before). Here's the deal, I've been accepted to several pharmacy schools recently, but my gut feeling is telling me to go for DO as I will really the profession. I have many years of work and volunteer experience in hospitals as well as pharmacies.

My major concern is my GPA is on the low end according to PharmCAS (averages everything like AMCAS). My PharmCAS stats are as followed:

sGPA: 2.85 (PharmCAS GPA) - I have retaken all my B's and below courses (60 units) and have gotten all A's on them, so if I put them into AACOMAS, I'm sure it would be above a 3.0.
cGPA: 3.1 (PharmCAS GPA)
PCAT score: 90%ile

If I end up going for medical school, I intend to take more science courses to beef up my GPA. I also plan to take the MCAT this coming August for the 2014-2015 application cycle. My questions are...

1. Do I have a chance with this GPA?
2. I intend to apply to some of the schools that accepted me for Pharmacy School, would that hurt my chances?
3. Any insight will be much appreciated!

1. You have a chance if you can bring that c/sGPA to 3.2+ and score 25+ MCAT
2. These application are separate; therefore, schools wont know if you applied to their PharmD program
3. Insight...Retake some class to bring your GPAs up...

Why DO now? I know getting a job as a pharmacist is not easy these days because of the expansion of pharm schools... Is that your reason for going DO ?

 

[Dreamstoo]

I see. I'm not planning to apply to MD schools, though. I know I will have no chance with that GPA for MD schools; however, with DO schools, I know my GPA will be higher than 3.0 with grades replacement.

Then go for it I guess.

 

[alwaysastudent]

It all mostly depends on your MCAT.

I'm a decent test taker and feel like I can do at least 65%ile if the MCAT is anything like the PCAT. I will definitely give it my best though.

 

[alwaysastudent]

1. You have a chance if you can bring that c/sGPA to 3.2+ and score 25+ MCAT
2. These application are separate; therefore, schools wont know if you applied to their PharmD program
3. Insight...Retake some class to bring your GPAs up...

Why DO now? I know getting a job as a pharmacist is not easy these days because of the expansion of pharm schools... Is that your reason for going DO ?

It's good to know that they won't know that I've decided to switch course, as I don't want it to hurt my chances. I've shadowed both pharmacists and doctors. Worked in OR, ER, L&D, etc... And I really enjoyed them all. I also enjoyed Pharmacy, but I just can't see myself doing it for the next 30 years of my life. On the other hand, I think I will really enjoy being a DO... I guess I didn't put enough thought into the occupation and the long-term aspects of it.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I'm a decent test taker and feel like I can do at least 65%ile if the MCAT is anything like the PCAT. I will definitely give it my best though.

The MCAT is a different beast... But 65%ile should be ok. My guess it's probably 26

 

[alwaysastudent]

The MCAT is a different beast... But 65%ile should be ok. My guess it's probably 26

I've noticed the differences, as I've gone over the blueprints to see the topics covered... I just hope it's enough, seeing how many people in the Underdog thread didn't make it in this year. It's a bit scary...

 

[alwaysastudent]

It's hard to evaluate your sgpa without knowing what it would be with the retakes. I'm assuming the cgpa would be the same for pharm and MD/DO purposes.

I'm not 100% sure how the GPA will be, but all my retakes are A's, and I've been getting all A's for the past 60+ units.

 

[Dreamstoo]

I've noticed the differences, as I've gone over the blueprints to see the topics covered... I just hope it's enough, seeing how many people in the Underdog thread didn't make it in this year. It's a bit scary...

Haven't been keeping up with it this year. That is scary especially since I'm kind of an underdog.

 

[alwaysastudent]

Haven't been keeping up with it this year. That is scary especially since I'm kind of an underdog.

I just gave it a cursory skim prior to opening this thread, and the # of accepted underdogs aren't that high... I'm hoping it's because they were too happy they got accepted that they forgot to report back? 😀

 

[bionerd89]

I just gave it a cursory skim prior to opening this thread, and the # of accepted underdogs aren't that high... I'm hoping it's because they were too happy they got accepted that they forgot to report back? 😀

Don't worry too much. If being a physician is really what you want and your willing to work hard for it then you will definitely get in somewhere. Just be smart about where you apply and take your time to build a good application.

 

[Isha2018]

Don't worry too much. If being a physician is really what you want and your willing to work hard for it then you will definitely get in somewhere. Just be smart about where you apply and take your time to build a good application.

+1.

 

[XFireMedic]

I'm not 100% sure how the GPA will be, but all my retakes are A's, and I've been getting all A's for the past 60+ units.

That's a lot of replaced grades. I think your gap will be fine when AACOMAS does their magic.

If you truly don't see yourself being a pharmacist 30 years from now, study for the MCAT and go to med school. Life is too short to always wonder "what if?"

 

[WalSlave]

Wow, nice job on that PCAT score! That's incredible. If you can pull that off on the PCAT then I think you'll do well on the MCAT. I know they are very different tests, but you are clearly a REALLY good test taker which counts for a lot. The 90th percentile on the PCAT is just incredible. Well done.

I was pre-pharmacy for a couple years because I didn't think I was good enough to go to med school. Pharmacology itself is awesome, but after actually being a pharm tech for about 5 years, I had enough and realized I did NOT want to do that for the rest of my life. The sad truth is, something like 90% of grads end up working in retail pharmacies, which is just glorified tech work. Yeah, everyone wants to work in a hospital, but those jobs are few and far between, have a low turnover (no openings), and are requiring more and more residency experience. Also, take one look at the PharmD forum and you'll see that the PharmD bubble has essentially popped and the market for new grads is tanking. It's scary and serves as a testament to what too many new for-profit schools can really do to a profession.

So point being, if you aren't just completely on fire with passion when it comes to pharmacy, DO NOT GO TO PHARMACY SCHOOL.

 

[alwaysastudent]

Don't worry too much. If being a physician is really what you want and your willing to work hard for it then you will definitely get in somewhere. Just be smart about where you apply and take your time to build a good application.

It's a scary prospect because I'm forgoing my acceptance to the PharmD programs and putting myself in an uncertain position. Although I am prepared to work hard, the uncertainty of whether I will make it into a DO program makes it an all or nothing kind of situation at this point in time.

 

[alwaysastudent]

That's a lot of replaced grades. I think your gap will be fine when AACOMAS does their magic.

If you truly don't see yourself being a pharmacist 30 years from now, study for the MCAT and go to med school. Life is too short to always wonder "what if?"

I will build a GPA calculator on Excel that follows the parameters of AACOMAS to see where I stand. I had a dilettante undergrad and I'm paying for it dearly...
I don't want to have to say "what if?" 10 or 20 years from now, but the switch isn't an easy decision to make.

 

[alwaysastudent]

Wow, nice job on that PCAT score! That's incredible. If you can pull that off on the PCAT then I think you'll do well on the MCAT. I know they are very different tests, but you are clearly a REALLY good test taker which counts for a lot. The 90th percentile on the PCAT is just incredible. Well done.

I was pre-pharmacy for a couple years because I didn't think I was good enough to go to med school. Pharmacology itself is awesome, but after actually being a pharm tech for about 5 years, I had enough and realized I did NOT want to do that for the rest of my life. The sad truth is, something like 90% of grads end up working in retail pharmacies, which is just glorified tech work. Yeah, everyone wants to work in a hospital, but those jobs are few and far between, have a low turnover (no openings), and are requiring more and more residency experience. Also, take one look at the PharmD forum and you'll see that the PharmD bubble has essentially popped and the market for new grads is tanking. It's scary and serves as a testament to what too many new for-profit schools can really do to a profession.

So point being, if you aren't just completely on fire with passion when it comes to pharmacy, DO NOT GO TO PHARMACY SCHOOL.

That's one of the reasons why I can't see myself being a pharmacist 30 years down the line... I've been a tech for several years now, and I can't see myself doing that kind of a job as a long-term career. Thanks for the encouragement and good luck to you as well!

 

[alwaysastudent]

Goro, can I please get your opinion as well?

 

[68quebec]

dear my fellow, I am in the exact same situation. your PharmCAS GPA is almost identical to mine except the fact that you did better on PCAT and probably I have better on ECs and job experience. anyways, recalculate all your GPAs. if you have ever retaken any courses, always later classes will be counted towards AACOMAS GPA. PhmarCAS GPA is exactly same as AMCAS GPA by the way.
the only big difference between PCAT and MCAT is that MCAT has physics section, and all sections are A LOT harder than PCAT. Good luck on MCAT (and to me too lol ).
In my opinion, 90% of PCAT is identical to 33-37 of MCAT. if you put enough effort on MCAT, you sure will score as high as your PCAT percentile 🙂

 

[alwaysastudent]

dear my fellow, I am in the exact same situation. your PharmCAS GPA is almost identical to mine except the fact that you did better on PCAT and probably I have better on ECs and job experience. anyways, recalculate all your GPAs. if you have ever retaken any courses, always later classes will be counted towards AACOMAS GPA. PhmarCAS GPA is exactly same as AMCAS GPA by the way.
the only big difference between PCAT and MCAT is that MCAT has physics section, and all sections are A LOT harder than PCAT. Good luck on MCAT (and to me too lol ).
In my opinion, 90% of PCAT is identical to 33-37 of MCAT. if you put enough effort on MCAT, you sure will score as high as your PCAT percentile 🙂

Thanks for your response and your encouraging words! I'm glad to find someone who is going through the same thing. I have retaken many classes, so I think my GPA will be higher when I apply for DO school. I will recalculate my GPA according to AACOMAS soon to see where I stand, but regardless, I intend to take more classes to beef up my application. If you don't mind me asking, when do you plan to take your MCAT? I plan to take it late this summer or early in the fall.

 

[verynice]

have you worked as a pharmacy tech or shadowed a pharmacist?

 

[BestDoctorEver]

the only big difference between PCAT and MCAT is that MCAT has physics section, and all sections are A LOT harder than PCAT. Good luck on MCAT (and to me too lol ).
In my opinion, 90% of PCAT is identical to 33-37 of MCAT. if you put enough effort on MCAT, you sure will score as high as your PCAT percentile 🙂

I am not to sure you can make a direct correlation b/t the two tests since you already mentioned that the MCAT is much harder... FWIW, I know people who gave up on med school because of the MCAT (low 20s), but did very well in the PCAT (80+%ile).

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Why is nobody asking why this decision to switch to medicine has been done so rash after just getting a pharmacy acceptance and all experience is in pharmacy? OP, you really need to make sure on this. You are sitting with an acceptance to professional school. Do you really want to do medicine over pharmacy?

 

[VisualEvolution]

I am not to sure you can make a direct correlation b/t the two tests since you already mentioned that the MCAT is much harder... FWIW, I know people who gave up on med school because of the MCAT (low 20s), but did very well in the PCAT (80+%ile).

Same here. My buddy couldn't break 26 on the MCAT but scored a low 90s on PCAT. The competitiveness of the testing pool for each exam is completely different from one another so you can't assume a 1 to 1 percentile conversion.

Why is nobody asking why this decision to switch to medicine has been done so rash after just getting a pharmacy acceptance and all experience is in pharmacy? OP, you really need to make sure on this. You are sitting with an acceptance to professional school. Do you really want to do medicine over pharmacy?

It's the pharm tech syndrome. Many people who work as a pharmacy tech in hopes of one day becoming a pharmacist will eventually get turned off with what the job of a pharmacist entails. It happened to me and many of my friends, we were just looking for any excuse to try something different, so I can see where he is coming from.

 

[rainbow girl]

dear my fellow, I am in the exact same situation. your PharmCAS GPA is almost identical to mine except the fact that you did better on PCAT and probably I have better on ECs and job experience. anyways, recalculate all your GPAs. if you have ever retaken any courses, always later classes will be counted towards AACOMAS GPA. PhmarCAS GPA is exactly same as AMCAS GPA by the way.
the only big difference between PCAT and MCAT is that MCAT has physics section, and all sections are A LOT harder than PCAT. Good luck on MCAT (and to me too lol ).
In my opinion, 90% of PCAT is identical to 33-37 of MCAT. if you put enough effort on MCAT, you sure will score as high as your PCAT percentile 🙂

I am also a pre-pharm-turn-pre-med. the limited scope of pharmacy is what turns me off. I took both the Pcat and mcat and believe me, mcat is much harder. The knowledge base is more extensive. Most of the Pcat questions ask for memorizing details and simple problem-solving. Mcat is more of a critical thinking test. Make sure you do a lot of practice for the mcat. Good news is that you don't have stats, calculus and vocab for mcat

 

[alwaysastudent]

have you worked as a pharmacy tech or shadowed a pharmacist?

I've been a tech for several years while I did my undergrad. I also volunteered at several hospitals and in several different departments. A very nice surgeon even asked me to help him stich up a pt's severed ear - he did the stitching, I did the holding. I have experience in both fields and enjoy both, it's just that I feel I would enjoy medicine a bit more.

 

[alwaysastudent]

I am not to sure you can make a direct correlation b/t the two tests since you already mentioned that the MCAT is much harder... FWIW, I know people who gave up on med school because of the MCAT (low 20s), but did very well in the PCAT (80+%ile).

Although it's true that a direct correlation is difficult to make, if not impossible, someone I know got a 89%ile PCAT and ended up with a 38 on the MCAT. It really depends on the person and how they prepare going into the exams.

 

[alwaysastudent]

Why is nobody asking why this decision to switch to medicine has been done so rash after just getting a pharmacy acceptance and all experience is in pharmacy? OP, you really need to make sure on this. You are sitting with an acceptance to professional school. Do you really want to do medicine over pharmacy?

I agree, those are valid questions, and that's why I'm asking for advice. I do have plenty of experience in hospital that is not pharmacy related (OR, ER, ICU, etc..). I don't mind doing either profession; however, I can see myself doing medicine more in the long run. I still have some time and will mull over it before I pull the plug on my pharmacy acceptances.

 

[alwaysastudent]

Same here. My buddy couldn't break 26 on the MCAT but scored a low 90s on PCAT. The competitiveness of the testing pool for each exam is completely different from one another so you can't assume a 1 to 1 percentile conversion.


It's the pharm tech syndrome. Many people who work as a pharmacy tech in hopes of one day becoming a pharmacist will eventually get turned off with what the job of a pharmacist entails. It happened to me and many of my friends, we were just looking for any excuse to try something different, so I can see where he is coming from.

A good chunk of it has something to do with this... I will say that I did enjoy my experience as a hospital technician, but I can't say the same about retail or other settings. So was this the determining factor for you as well?

 

[alwaysastudent]

I am also a pre-pharm-turn-pre-med. the limited scope of pharmacy is what turns me off. I took both the Pcat and mcat and believe me, mcat is much harder. The knowledge base is more extensive. Most of the Pcat questions ask for memorizing details and simple problem-solving. Mcat is more of a critical thinking test. Make sure you do a lot of practice for the mcat. Good news is that you don't have stats, calculus and vocab for mcat

What other factors made you change your mind besides the limited scope? I see a lot of potential for job enjoyment (at least for me) in hospital/clinical pharmacy, but with the competition and the saturation, it's a big gamble to even land such a position several years from now.

 

[rainbow girl]

What other factors made you change your mind besides the limited scope? I see a lot of potential for job enjoyment (at least for me) in hospital/clinical pharmacy, but with the competition and the saturation, it's a big gamble to even land such a position several years from now.

I didn't get to know much about hospital pharmacy, but I didn't like retail. I love the limitless opportunities that medicine offers, from clinical, research, teaching to public health and preventive medicine. I know those are also available to PharmD, but much less. The decline in pharmacist position scares me a little. I shadow some doctors and really enjoy their interactions with patients. Prestige also adds in somewhat, to be honest. Higher salary, but not the big deciding factor

 

[rainbow girl]

Although it's true that a direct correlation is difficult to make, if not impossible, someone I know got a 89%ile PCAT and ended up with a 38 on the MCAT. It really depends on the person and how they prepare going into the exams.

True, percentile-wise, my mcat is higher than Pcat, but I went into my Pcat exam without much review. I took a course for my mcat and studied so hard for it. But on my the difficulty level, mcat is a much harder test and requires more studying IMO. Just make sure you are well-prepared.

 

[alwaysastudent]

I didn't get to know much about hospital pharmacy, but I didn't like retail. I love the limitless opportunities that medicine offers, from clinical, research, teaching to public health and preventive medicine. I know those are also available to PharmD, but much less. The decline in pharmacist position scares me a little. I shadow some doctors and really enjoy their interactions with patients. Prestige also adds in somewhat, to be honest. Higher salary, but not the big deciding factor

Thanks for sharing your prespective and for being honest. I really appreciate it.

True, percentile-wise, my mcat is higher than Pcat, but I went into my Pcat exam without much review. I took a course for my mcat and studied so hard for it. But on my the difficulty level, mcat is a much harder test and requires more studying IMO. Just make sure you are well-prepared.

I agree, and will do if I finalize my decision on medicine.