Please Help. Would I be wasting my time; criminal records and medical school.

[Stillstanding4801]

I am a non traditional unrepresented minority (Mexican) medical school pre applicant with an extensive criminal arrest record with no felonies and want to become a physician (4 duis, 1 trespassing, and a vandalism convictions) . But please here me out before passing judgment on my unworthy past.

I grew tough, meaning the hand dealt to me was bad. By the age of 20 I had been ran over, broke my back, abused by both drug addicted parents who have both been to prison, shot , witness to a homicide, bounced around from home to home, in gangs, on my own since 13 and the list REALLY goes on. Sadly, this was the norm for a broke Mexican kid from the barrio. Despite this existence, I never felt sorry for myself. I managed to turn my life around after 20 by moving as far away from my hometown as I could.

Long story short I enrolled in a community college far away from home and land jobs with 6 different non profits working with at risk underserved children in school, home, clinical, and education settings. In that time I racked up well over 10,000 hours of volunteer hours. Everything was set, so I thought.

One day a friend of my visited me accompanied by her 3 year old. On our way to the park a car sped out of control and struck the child, killing him. My life shattered instantly, shouldering the blame I began to cope by drinking. Sadly, it was the wrong thing to do. I was young and I already had suffered so much tragedy in my life that my mind just lost it. No excuses, just the truth no matter how wrong it was. Let's fast forward.

After suffering a subdural hematoma last year and almost dying (again) I decided it was time to start living. I want to use my potential by becoming a physician (psychiatrist) and serve my community along side my wife who is applying to med school this year.

Surprising myself I finished my undergraduate degree this year from a top 25 public university while maintaining a 3.9 sgpa and a cgpa of 3.6 despite never going to high school. My practice MCAT scores are in the 508-520 range, so I do not see a problem there. However, is it just a waste of time to apply because of my past. No need to bash me, just keep it real.

FYI...I completed an 18 month alcohol treatment course, been alcohol free for 5 years, cleared by a substance abuse counselor and have completed multiple alcohol abuse courses.

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[Stillstanding4801]

5 years since my last dui and conviction***

 

[7331poas]

I cast a vote for zero chance

 

[deleted480308]

1) Seek some mental health counseling to deal with some of the stuff you've been through. It sucks and I'm sorry you've had it rough
2) are you sure you have 4 DUIs with none of them being felonies?
3) My bet is no on med school. You can always try swinging for the fences though as you clearly have the intelligence for it. Even if medicine ends up not being your path, pick a real career and kick it's a$$. Provide a better life for your family than you got. You can break the cycle.

 

[piii]

Have you read through this thread? http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/medical-students-with-duis.717836/

I'll preface this by saying I'm not an adcom.
It seems like one dui, 5 years ago, may slide if the applicant has a serious upswing and improvement.

I commend you on getting your life together and I hope the best for you. I think the 4 DUIs and history of other criminal convictions is too much risk for a med school to take. I bet that even if you get through medical school, you will have problems getting licensed due to your criminal past. Schools don't want to gamble on training a student who may end up jobless and in debt. It is unfortunate but it makes sense in a field predicated on ethics.

Exhaust your options, but be realistic. Like the other user said, you clearly are capable of success but it may not be in medicine. Good luck.

 

[Stillstanding4801]

1) Seek some mental health counseling to deal with some of the stuff you've been through. It sucks and I'm sorry you've had it rough
2) are you sure you have 4 DUIs with none of them being felonies?
3) My bet is no on med school. You can always try swinging for the fences though as you clearly have the intelligence for it. Even if medicine ends up not being your path, pick a real career and kick it's a$$. Provide a better life for your family than you got. You can break the cycle.

Your words and comments are very much appreciated, I truly mean that.

I have completed tons of mental health sessions, alcohol abuse courses, and therapy.

Yeah, four. I got 3 in one month after the incident so the judge was easy on me.

 

[Stillstanding4801]

I've narrowed my career paths down to MD/DO, JD or Nueropsychologist. However, it seems that simular licensing issues are involved in all. BTW JD is a last resort.

It's not about the money, I left out the part of how I made a **** ton playing poker and owning a used car lot.

 

[deleted480308]

I've narrowed my career paths down to MD/DO, JD or Nueropsychologist. However, it seems that simular licensing issues are involved in all. BTW JD is a last resort.

It's not about the money, I left out the part of how I made a **** ton playing poker and owning a used car lot.

well you are smart enough for math and the math REALLY shows law isn't about the money.....avg law salaries are atrocious, just google "lawyer over saturation"

 

[Stillstanding4801]

Yeah, I was thinking more along the lines of a medical schools risk of training me and leaving me in debt.

I guess a career in law where I represent students who want to attend med school with criminal records might be a viable option....SMH. ...I just wonder if there is an adcom out there who believes in redemption, but maybe I am fooling myself as I barely believe in it.

 

[candbgirl]

I think there are lots of ADCOMS that believe in reinvention. It's after med school that might present a problem- you would have a hard time getting a license.

 

[Stillstanding4801]

Maybe I am being too wishfu. With that being said I will just be a MD in my next life and live vicariously through my wife's future medical career in this one.

I want to extend my appreciation to you guys and gals for taking the time to shed some insight on my plight. I wish the very best for "yall".

Regards,
Future J.D. :/
Paz

 

[futuremdforme]

I have no idea about your specific chances, but I wanted to say congratulations to you for taking the steps to break the cycle. There are a lot of other great service careers out there, and I hope you find one where you can make a difference.

 

[7331poas]

If you are interested in helping people, there are much better ways to do it than medicine. If you are driven you can use your capital to create a business in healthcare technology and other fields that may not even have anything to do with healthcare.

You will help more people doing that if you are successful than any surgeon

 

[Doug Underhill]

Don't write the dream off yet. We haven't even gotten any adcoms to weigh in on your chances.

 

[Chromium Surfer]

@Goro

 

[Goro]

Sometimes you have to apply with the app you have, warts and all. There are Adcom members that do believe in redemption, you have a very compelling story, and you appear to have led an exemplary life since your transgressions.

But residency and licensing is more the issue I worry about. We need some heavy hitters here. Paging @mimelim ... @gyngyn @Law2Doc .... @aProgDirector!!!

 

[Stillstanding4801]

You guys are right, I shouldn't right it off that easy. I remember when I was 12 and had just been ran over by a rival gang member, breaking my back @ t12...my mom was in prison and my dad was getting drunk somewhere, the only people that cared for me were that hospital staff...for the first time in my life I was clothed, fed, cleaned, safe, and loved....for all 6 months of my stay.
Ever since that day I have had a burning desire to practice medicine. I do belive there are many ways to help people, but none as intimate / rewarding as helping an ill individual get better.

 

[Stillstanding4801]

A quick update! I decided to call the California Medical Licescing division a few moments ago and spilled to beans on my history to a gal named Gail. After filling her in on my situation I asked if these issues will prevent california from granting me a license and she replied "heavens no". Apparently, there are a lot of doctors who have had simular situations. Medical school admossions and residency are two separate issues.
I am thinking worse case scenario; SGU Grenada and complete a residency outside the country?!?!?!? Any input will help!

 

[gyngyn]

Sometimes you have to apply with the app you have, warts and all. There are Adcom members that do believe in redemption, you have a very compelling story, and you appear to have led an exemplary life since your transgressions.

But residency and licensing is more the issue I worry about. We need some heavy hitters here. Paging @mimelim ... @gyngyn @Law2Doc .... @aProgDirector!!!

This would not make it past screening at any medical school where I have participated in admissions. I'll admit that I have seen "courtesy" interviews for applicants with similar histories, though.

 

[Goro]

Under no circumstances should you even think about the Carib diploma mills, unless you like the idea of being unemployed and deeply in debt



I am thinking worse case scenario; SGU Grenada and complete a residency outside the country?!?!?!? Any input will help![/QUOTE]

 

[Stillstanding4801]

I

This would not make it past screening at any medical school where I have participated in admissions. I'll admit that I have seen "courtesy" interviews for applicants with similar histories, though.

The honesty is appreciated! The last thing I would want is a "courtesy" interview, even though I would absolutely nail it. I've pretty much been a red flag all my life, hence me not being devastated about the reality of my current situation. However, the urge to "try" is overwhelming and I feel it would be an injustice to myself, my family, and my community if I don't. In all reality what is the worse that can happen; I mean, I am already not accepted. I have experienced far more difficult things in life than a denial and I might not be able to look at myself in the mirror if I don't apply. I wish society would one day really understand that if individuals are to break vicious cycles and unwanted behavioral patterns, we must embrace their change, not cut their wings.

 

[deleted245139]

The chances don't look good...

That said,no matter how this all pans out for you, be proud. That's a hell of a story, tragic, and you've done great things to right your ship. Keep plugging away. Some doors may be closed, but keep knockin.

Best of luck to you!

 

[DokterMom]

Somebody is going to want to give you a break after all the crap life threw at you and what you've managed to build from it. The tricky part is going to be finding that special Admissions Committee that has enough of the "Take a chance on this guy!" players on it to over-ride the "Play it safe -- we've got lots of applicants with no red flags" crowd.

Can you afford to apply broadly? And do you mind sharing your state of residence? There will be some mission-focused schools you'll definitely want to include --

 

[Stillstanding4801]

Thanks for the acknowledgment on my achievements! Yeah, it has been a rough ride, thus is life. I am a Californian and applying broadly wouldn't be a problem. I want to believe that some academic institution out there is willing to take a chance or at least genuinely consider me. Besides I doubt there are many people lining up to become Prison Psychiatrists.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Besides I doubt there are many people lining up to become Prison Psychiatrists.

Perhaps not, but understand that these are two separate hurdles: getting into medical school and then becoming a prison psychiatrist. The first is currently the primary obstacle in your path. Even if you have a unique passion for a particular career within medicine, do not count on that aspect of yourself alone to make up for other perceived deficiencies. What is more likely to portray them in a positive light are your decisions and actions after these instances have occurred. I agree with other posters in that I believe that there will be someone out there willing to take a chance on you, but the trouble will be finding out who. Be prepared for that fact that this endeavor may end in failure, but do not yet count out the possibility of success.

 

[Stillstanding4801]

At the same time I think not many institutions are lining up to be known as the ''risk takers'', especially on something as serious as multiple arrests. However, that would quickly change after I win a noble piece prize for my work and research in successfully treating mental illness and altering human behaviors in the prison populations.

 

[Stillstanding4801]

1

Perhaps not, but understand that these are two separate hurdles: getting into medical school and then becoming a prison psychiatrist. The first is currently the primary obstacle in your path. Even if you have a unique passion for a particular career within medicine, do not count on that aspect of yourself alone to make up for other perceived deficiencies. What is more likely to portray them in a positive light are your decisions and actions after these instances have occurred. I agree with other posters in that I believe that there will be someone out there willing to take a chance on you, but the trouble will be finding out who. Be prepared for that fact that this endeavor may end in failure, but do not yet count out the possibility of success.

I totally agree. But once you have climbed mountains hurdles do not seem so bad. I have made peace with the likely hood of my dream being just that, a dream. In my heart I know that I have changed and any of perceived deficiencies have merit. Should they hinder with me the rest of my life, maybe.

 

[DokterMom]

I thought it might be CA -- Is it Davis and/or Irvine who has the specific mission of serving the Valley? And UCSF is known to be quirky in their admissions policies -- particularly since you've got the numbers to be competitive there. I'd also look at the Texas schools, particularly TT El Paso, UTHSC Rio Grande Valley and UTHSCSA. There's a large Spanish-speaking population in TX and a serious mission that needs serving. Maybe Arizona also --

 

[gyngyn]

I thought it might be CA -- Is it Davis and/or Irvine who has the specific mission of serving the Valley? And UCSF is known to be quirky in their admissions policies -- particularly since you've got the numbers to be competitive there. I'd also look at the Texas schools, particularly TT El Paso, UTHSC Rio Grande Valley and UTHSCSA. There's a large Spanish-speaking population in TX and a serious mission that needs serving. Maybe Arizona also --

UCD is the school with the San Joaquin Valley focus, UCR is even more focused on the IE.

 

[Stillstanding4801]

,list?

 

[DokterMom]

You've got time to figure it out -- Get the MSAR and read each school's mission statement. Some are BS PR, but some are very sincere and willing to back it up with scholarships. I'd take them at their word and apply broadly.

@Goro and @gyngyn and @gonnif and @LizzyM -- Do you think it might be worth a phone call to the admissions offices given the rather extreme nature of the OP's circumstances? I'm wondering if an advance 'head's up' might get his app past the first impression circular file --

 

[NoTownPreMed]

I finished my undergraduate at Davis and I am thinking they are tired of seeing me on campus. However, I am a valley kid (Fresno), and it would be awesome to stay. Thank you for the encouragement ''Docktermom", I needed it. Any other schools I might consider applying to aside from that list?

UC-Davis has an excellent PRIME program that tailors pre-meds who are from the valley. I think you should speak to one of the representatives from the program and inform them of your situation. Definitely rooting for you buddy, from one Fresno native to another.

 

[LizzyM]

I've got to figure that Mexican-American men with the stats this OP has are rare enough that an adcom may take a chance at someone with a shady past given the prospects of a sunny future. Many years of sobriety are nothing to sneeze at. I'd vote for an interview....

 

[mimelim]

You've got time to figure it out -- Get the MSAR and read each school's mission statement. Some are BS PR, but some are very sincere and willing to back it up with scholarships. I'd take them at their word and apply broadly.

@Goro and @gyngyn and @gonnif and @LizzyM -- Do you think it might be worth a phone call to the admissions offices given the rather extreme nature of the OP's circumstances? I'm wondering if an advance 'head's up' might get his app past the first impression circular file --

I know you didn't include me on the list, but...

Yes. Absolutely.

The biggest piece that I think gets overlooked is ORM.

OP:

The fundamental problem with your application is getting past the screens. After that, assuming that everything you say is true URM/3.6/3.9/reasonable MCAT + everything criminal >5 years prior, you stand a very strong chance at getting into medical school. To get over that, you need to make sure that your application gets looked at and at at least 2-3 schools there are people specifically looking out for your application. Heck, if I were still on the committee at my school, I'd ask you to PM me your info. This is a tricky situation, but frankly, with time and adequate preparation, my inclination is that you will do fine. (And if you don't get into medical school, it will be those school's loss, and you will do fine regardless.)

#1 Get your MCAT in line. A lot of people 'hope for' or get high 'practice' scores, but flub on the real thing. A weak MCAT takes you from needing to get past the screens to struggling to find anyone interested.
#2 Licensing will not be an issue, nor will residency. Unless we are talking felonies, things in the remote past generally don't concern either the medical board or residencies.
#3 Get MSAR. Plan out a very broad group of schools and then start targeting the local ones. It will be hard to get noticed, but I would not rule out trying to get on people's radars early, especially if you can work it into some sort of volunteering activity.
#4 I'm on the fence about this, but I'll put it out there... I'd consider cold messaging people, either on here or at admissions offices imploring them to look very closely at your application. Not to give you a leg up, but to look very hard at you because you fit what the school is looking for. I'm not sure the success rate it may have, but you have the benefit of it being 100% true (primarily because of the URM status).

 

[Goro]

I don't think it can hurt to contact an admissions dean.

You've got time to figure it out -- Get the MSAR and read each school's mission statement. Some are BS PR, but some are very sincere and willing to back it up with scholarships. I'd take them at their word and apply broadly.

@Goro and @gyngyn and @gonnif and @LizzyM -- Do you think it might be worth a phone call to the admissions offices given the rather extreme nature of the OP's circumstances? I'm wondering if an advance 'head's up' might get his app past the first impression circular file --

 

[NotAProgDirector]

From a licensing standpoint, this is not going to be a problem. By the time the OP gets to residency, they will be another 5 years out from now, and 10 years out from all of the "bad stuff". The OP will likely be able to get a license in any state. Some states are much more of a pain about it -- Mass, Cali, FL, TX, and Pennsylvania. You will likely get a license in many of these states, it just might be slower and a big pain. For example, some of those states may require release of ALL of your medical/psych records -- i.e. any counselor you have seen, ever. Many people decide that they don't want those records in the "safe keeping" of the state medical board. You can do a residency in most of those states without a problem, since a training license is usually much easier to get -- but Cali requires a full license for PGY-3+.

In any case, if you get into medical school and don't fall back into your bad habits, you'll get a residency. I doubt anyone will care about your past in a negative way. In fact, it should be the highlight of your personal statement. The only field that will raise concerns is Anesthesia -- there's a high risk of substance abuse, any prior substance problems are concerning.

 

[Stillstanding4801]

Prior to this post I felt ashamed, discouraged and hopeless. The reality of not being able to reach my goals because of my horrendously misguided past was weighing heavily on my heart and mind. I was very unsure of posting in this forum, but I am glad I did. The amount of encouragement, guidance, insight, strategy, warmth and honesty I have received supersede anything I could have hoped for. It is hard for me to find the words to describe how exactly I am feeling right now, but I am going to try.

Life, as I know it, has been nothing but cruel and unforgiving until this thread. Your responses have impacted and alter my perception, in regards to becoming a doctor, in such a positive way and I am very thankful for that. You guy's are amazing! When the day comes for me to fulfill my destiny by becoming a physician, I will remember this thread and your comment. Happy New Year! @Doug Underhill @WedgeDawg @DokterMom @mimelim @aProgDirector @LizzyM @gonnif @Goro @NoTownPreMed

Regards,
D.G.J

 

[gyngyn]

UC-Davis has an excellent PRIME program that tailors pre-meds who are from the valley. I think you should speak to one of the representatives from the program and inform them of your situation. Definitely rooting for you buddy, from one Fresno native to another.

You are right. UCD is exactly where OP should start in an assessment of opportunities. They can also be "quirky" in a way that will help him.

 

[Stillstanding4801]

.

 

[mimelim]

I failed to mention that 3 very close friends of mine are MDs, one of which was present when the accident happened that spiraled my life out of control. He recently reached out to me via email, explaining how that incident forever changed his life and how traumatic it was for him. I never mentioned to him that I finished school or my aspiration to become a physician. Anyhow, turns out he is practicing in my area at a clinic that serves the latino community (he is a URM too), would it be wise to shadow him for a year to boost my ec's? I am sure that he would write me a LOR and if he does, would it have more weight if he mentioned the accident and how hard I took it? Maybe I can even ask if he can eventually connect me with adcom from his alma mater (MSU). Another one of the 3 was also a roommate who didn't not witness the accident but was apart of the aftermath who went to Howard... I am sure he would write a similar letter.

You should absolutely keep in touch with him and have him advocate for you.

 

[futuremdforme]

I failed to mention that 3 very close friends of mine are MDs, one of which was present when the accident happened that spiraled my life out of control. He recently reached out to me via email, explaining how that incident forever changed his life and how traumatic it was for him. I never mentioned to him that I finished school or my aspiration to become a physician. Anyhow, turns out he is practicing in my area at a clinic that serves the latino community (he is a URM too), would it be wise to shadow him for a year to boost my ec's? I am sure that he would write me a LOR and if he does, would it have more weight if he mentioned the accident and how hard I took it? Maybe I can even ask if he can eventually connect me with adcom from his alma mater (MSU). Another one of the 3 was also a roommate who didn't not witness the accident but was apart of the aftermath who went to Howard... I am sure he would write a similar letter.

Those are fantastic contacts to have. What if you did volunteering at your friend's clinic? You could do some shadowing too, but the volunteering letter could include how you're able to connect with people well, etc.

 

[prowd2beloud147]

I just have to say that I read your posts and was touched by the following sentence:

I wish society would one day really understand that if individuals are to break vicious cycles and unwanted behavioral patterns, we must embrace their change, not cut their wings.

I wish nothing but the best for your future and hope that when you DO succeed many of our struggling youth will look at you as inspiration!