Please, please, please don't go to NYU

[Ollivander]

Yup! 4 PA interviews invites so far. It's not that difficult to switch

That's so awesome! Congrats on getting in!

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[jadedphysiotherapist]

Good to see people taking different, yet intelligent paths rather than just saying it'll all be okay. That's the first step to changing this nonsense

 

[oralcare123]

I bet ya 90% of people don't look up the costs

So you are implying that 90% of dental school applicants are idiots?

 

[Life of Pablo]

I have a friend going to pharmacy school, and he's going to pay around 14k a year. To put things into perspective, 14k will buy you like 1 week of schooling at the expensive schools. Yeah pharmacist don't make that much, but they definitely make quite a bit. Hearing these things makes me wonder why dental schools make you pay an arm and a leg. Just doesn't make any sense.

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

So you are implying that 90% of dental school applicants are idiots?

Yes because they listen to the 55 yr old with 2 houses working 3 days a week with hygienists and actually think their life will be similar

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

Edited out.

 

[SmileItsLife]

I bet ya 90% of people don't look up the costs

I would guess most do research the cost, but don't understand what half a million dollars means when they have to work to pay it off.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

So you are implying that 90% of dental school applicants are idiots?

Most are too focused on just getting in. How to actually pay for school is simply an afterthought.

Big Hoss

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I would guess most do research the cost, but don't understand what half a million dollars means when they have to work to pay it off.

And reading these boards, people are way too optimistic on how fast they'll pay this off. They always underestimate the ramifications of a 7% interest rate on their loans, how much Uncle Sam is going to demand in taxes, and how much life really costs when you move out of your parents' basement.

Big Hoss

 

[Life of Pablo]

And reading these boards, people are way too optimistic on how fast they'll pay this off. They always underestimate the ramifications of a 7% interest rate on their loans, how much Uncle Sam is going to demand in taxes, and how much life really costs when you move out of your parents' basement.

Big Hoss

You're right. Forget dental school - let's all switch to med school!

 

[738177]

I have a friend going to pharmacy school, and he's going to pay around 14k a year. To put things into perspective, 14k will buy you like 1 week of schooling at the expensive schools. Yeah pharmacist don't make that much, but they definitely make quite a bit. Hearing these things makes me wonder why dental schools make you pay an arm and a leg. Just doesn't make any sense.

Agreed. On average, retail pharmacists have the same starting salaries as associate dentists. If you're paying ~half a million on Dschool, i really don't think your lifestyle would be much different than a PharmD after graduation considering their debt load. The caveat of course is their job market. You ultimately have to weigh your pros vs cons and in my case, Medicine was the clear winner.

 

[cooliyak]

And reading these boards, people are way too optimistic on how fast they'll pay this off. They always underestimate the ramifications of a 7% interest rate on their loans, how much Uncle Sam is going to demand in taxes, and how much life really costs when you move out of your parents' basement.

Big Hoss

Ugh. Uncle Sam takes WAY too much. I got my first paycheck just yesterday. After taxes and everything else is taken out, I'm only taking home 62% of my salary... and that's still before bills, rent, food, etc.

 

[8_man]

Ugh. Uncle Sam takes WAY too much. I got my first paycheck just yesterday. After taxes and everything else is taken out, I'm only taking home 62% of my salary... and that's still before bills, rent, food, etc.

In your opinion, is taking home 70-90K enough to indulge in luxury cars (let's say to lease a $60K-100K badboy)?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

In your opinion, is taking home 70-90K enough to indulge in luxury cars (let's say to lease a $60K-100K badboy)?

Using that $70-90,000 take home to pay down student loans in a reasonable amount of time and simultaneously pay for life's necessities? Have fun driving a Corolla.

Big Hoss

 

[8_man]

Using that $70-90,000 take home to pay down student loans in a reasonable anmount of time and simultaneously pay for life's necessities? Have fun driving a Corolla.

Big Hoss

No loans, Sir Hoss

 

[cooliyak]

In your opinion, is taking home 70-90K enough to indulge in luxury cars (let's say to lease a $60K-100K badboy)?

I'm probably not the best person to be asking that to. I'm not indulging in anything for the next little while. I'm going to be extremely frugal because I'm planning on paying off $300k of loans in 3 years.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

No loans, Sir Hoss

Then get this...

2017 Ford F-150 Raptor: The Beast Returns with an Aluminum Body and a Twin-Turbo V-6! - Official Photos and Info

Big Hoss

 

[Incis0r]

Ugh. Uncle Sam takes WAY too much. I got my first paycheck just yesterday. After taxes and everything else is taken out, I'm only taking home 62% of my salary... and that's still before bills, rent, food, etc.

It's not over - a refund might be coming your way

 

[periopocket]

But why so much hate for NYU when so many other private schools are similar in overall costs: what about roseman, tufts, Boston university midwesterns???


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[Student Loan Planner]

But why so much hate for NYU when so many other private schools are similar in overall costs: what about roseman, tufts, Boston university midwesterns???
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They're not great either, I picked on them bc I've heard the most ridiculous stories about what they're telling folks coming from my clients

@Student Loan Planner have you heard about this case regarding PSLF? New Fears For Public Service Loan Forgiveness

Yes there's going to be a million stories like this until 2020 or if Trump repeals it whichever comes first. This is all brought on by ppl from other kinds of not for profits besides 501c3's that want to qualify. If you're govt or 501c3 you don't need to worry right now

 

[Zesta]

I keep saying NYU being ranked as one of the most prestigous dental schools so wouldn't it be easier to get into certain specialities by going there?

 

[periopocket]

They're not great either, I picked on them bc I've heard the most ridiculous stories about what they're telling folks coming from my clients



Yes there's going to be a million stories like this until 2020 or if Trump repeals it whichever comes first. This is all brought on by ppl from other kinds of not for profits besides 501c3's that want to qualify. If you're govt or 501c3 you don't need to worry right now

It'a time for these schools to begin shutting down just as they did in the 80s - this will fix the saturation problem as well.


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[Alpha Centauri]

In your opinion, is taking home 70-90K enough to indulge in luxury cars (let's say to lease a $60K-100K badboy)?

Lease a cheaper car and mod it so it beats faster cars

 

[Giovanotto]

Yup! 4 PA interviews invites so far. It's not that difficult to switch

lmao, coming from the guy who was bragging about being an international student and being perfectly okay with dental school tuition in the US in other threads. I'm happy for you though, good decision.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Lease a cheaper car and mod it so it beats faster cars

Like some dude did to this sweet ride...

Big Hoss

 

[Alpha Centauri]

View attachment 222203
Like some dude did to this sweet ride...

Big Hoss

Yep. Easily another 200 horsepower gained right there!

 

[Charles_Darwin]

My alarm bells went off recently when someone told me that an administrator at the college told them that their average NYU dental grad pays back their loan in full within 7 years.

THIS IS ABSOLUTE CRAP if that was actually said. Perhaps that could be true if you average in the people coming out with 0 debt because their families are wealthy, but if you just isolate people who have to finance the education, that statement if it's being made is misleading at best and completely false at worst.

Just my two cents. I'm tired of hearing story after story from people who were told by NYU that they'll "pay it back in no time." That's total BS from people who have no clue what they're talking about if it's being said.

Just putting my anecdotal experience: I was in the 2nd interview batch at NYU last cycle, and the presenters made it very clear that this was a very expensive school. They emphasized that we should strongly think about going here and throughout the day students and faculty talked about financial management while at NYU. It seemed, to me at least, that everyone at NYU was trying to make sure that the interviewees were aware it was an expensive school.

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

Just putting my anecdotal experience: I was in the 2nd interview batch at NYU last cycle, and the presenters made it very clear that this was a very expensive school. They emphasized that we should strongly think about going here and throughout the day students and faculty talked about financial management while at NYU. It seemed, to me at least, that everyone at NYU was trying to make sure that the interviewees were aware it was an expensive school.

So theyre literally telling the students its a scam.......and students are still going

 

[schmoob]

So theyre literally telling the students its a scam.......and students are still going

You Can't Fix Stupid

What is the cost of attendance of the dental school you will be attending?

 

[allantois]

lmao, coming from the guy who was bragging about being an international student and being perfectly okay with dental school tuition in the US in other threads. I'm happy for you though, good decision.

I'm not an international student

 

[blablabla1]

It'a time for these schools to begin shutting down just as they did in the 80s - this will fix the saturation problem as well.


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It will happen eventually. It's like a cycle.

 

[Giovanotto]

I'm not an international student

Hmm, you're Canadian AFAIK. And hence in the U.S. you'd be an international student unless you also have American citizenship. Make up your mind, don't play these games with me.

 

[allantois]

Hmm, you're Canadian AFAIK. And hence in the U.S. you'd be an international student unless you also have American citizenship. Make up your mind, don't play these games with me.

Pardon me, but you are confusing me with someone else Monsieur

 

[Incis0r]

Pardon me

Nope, he's right. You're too polite - definitely Canadian xD

 

[predental21250]

I specifically remember during interview day they said that most students end up paying their loans in 7.5 years...

 

[cacajuate]

I specifically remember during interview day they said that most students end up paying their loans in 7.5 years...

 

[schmoob]

I specifically remember during interview day they said that most students end up paying their loans in 7.5 years...

Are you saying that's most likely inaccurate? How so?

 

[cacajuate]

Are you saying that's most likely inaccurate? How so?

I guarantee that 95+% of that class doesn't pay that loan amount in 7.5 years.

 

[schmoob]

View attachment 222286

I guarantee that 95+% of that class doesn't pay that loan amount in 7.5 years.

I guarantee 100% of the students who started dental school 11.5 years ago did not have that amount in loans upon graduation.
Saying most graduates have paid off their loans in 7.5 years would not be far-fetched.
That's not the same as faculty telling applicants when they will pay their loans off, which should be completely ignored regardless of being told it's 5 years or 35 years.

 

[cacajuate]

I guarantee 100% of the students who started dental school 11.5 years ago did not have that amount in loans upon graduation.
Saying most graduates have paid off their loans in 7.5 years would not be far-fetched.
That's not the same as faculty telling applicants when they will pay their loans off, which should be completely ignored regardless of being told it's 5 years or 35 years.

We are not talking about the class from 11.5 years ago. We are talking about the incoming class.

They'll need $108k after tax income to cover payments. Don't take away from the gravity of taking out that amount of loans, the full weight needs to be understood before taking that acceptance.


edit: You know whats funny? One year of COA is more than the amount that most of the professors/dentists teaching the students make. Tell me how that makes any sense.

 

[allantois]

There are literally tons of stories on the internet of students who went to NYU undergrad and cannot pay off their loans. Why would a school that doesn't care about their students ability to pay off loans in general care about dental students specifically?

It is on par with Phoenix/Ross/TrumpU level of predatory higher education.

 

[Incis0r]

I guarantee 100% of the students who started dental school 11.5 years ago did not have that amount in loans upon graduation.
Saying most graduates have paid off their loans in 7.5 years would not be far-fetched.
That's not the same as faculty telling applicants when they will pay their loans off, which should be completely ignored regardless of being told it's 5 years or 35 years.

This. Past performance is not a 100% reliable indicator of future success.

 

[deleted585480]

if you're going into debt over 350k you're making a huge mistake. period.

 

[SmileItsLife]

if you're going into debt over 350k you're making a huge mistake. period.

Why did you cap it at 350k?

 

[schmoob]

We are not talking about the class from 11.5 years ago. We are talking about the incoming class.

They'll need $108k after tax income to cover payments. Don't take away from the gravity of taking out that amount of loans, the full weight needs to be understood before taking that acceptance.


edit: You know whats funny? One year of COA is more than the amount that most of the professors/dentists teaching the students make. Tell me how that makes any sense.

We are though. If faculty is saying how long it has taken students on average to pay off their loans, then it's based off historical data, not a prediction of the future.

I absolutely agree with you with regards to understanding the gravity of that much money in loans. Its A LOT of money. That's why I pointed out that it doesnt matter if some faculty member gives applicants their prediction on how long it will take to pay off loans. It's the responsibility of the student to understand what they are getting themselves into. If these kids are smart enough to get degrees in molecular biology, then simple math and compound interest is not a difficult concept to understand. I'm not going to lease a Maserati knowing full well how much it costs, and then complain about the awful dealership when I start UNDERSTANDING how much my payments are costing.

It all comes down to supply and demand. The demand for a seat exists, and there is a fixed supply of spots. They can charge whatever they want. Everyone has their break-even point, but it's up to the applicant to make that choice.

There are literally tons of stories on the internet of students who went to NYU undergrad and cannot pay off their loans. Why would a school that doesn't care about their students ability to pay off loans in general care about dental students specifically?

It is on par with Phoenix/Ross/TrumpU level of predatory higher education.

Not predatory education. None of them are, NONE. No one is forcing anyone to go there and spend >$50K a year for four years for a degree in 18th Century Literature.
Would YOU ever do it? I definitely wouldn't. ESPECIALLY when there are tons of stories on the internet. So is that the fault of the school? Or is it the fault of the kids who decided to do it anyway, despite the writing on the wall?

You chose a path other than dentistry because of the cost, time, potential ROI, etc. You demonstrated excellent critical thinking and evaluated the big picture to decide if it was worth it for you. Now, you don't have this debt hanging on your shoulders. I very much respect your decision. But if you hadn't made this choice, would you be upset with yourself? Or the school you chose to attend?

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

We are though. If faculty is saying how long it has taken students on average to pay off their loans, then it's based off historical data, not a prediction of the future.

I absolutely agree with you with regards to understanding the gravity of that much money in loans. Its A LOT of money. That's why I pointed out that it doesnt matter if some faculty member gives applicants their prediction on how long it will take to pay off loans. It's the responsibility of the student to understand what they are getting themselves into. If these kids are smart enough to get degrees in molecular biology, then simple math and compound interest is not a difficult concept to understand. I'm not going to lease a Maserati knowing full well how much it costs, and then complain about the awful dealership when I start UNDERSTANDING how much my payments are costing.

It all comes down to supply and demand. The demand for a seat exists, and there is a fixed supply of spots. They can charge whatever they want. Everyone has their break-even point, but it's up to the applicant to make that choice.


Not predatory education. None of them are, NONE. No one is forcing anyone to go there and spend >$50K a year for four years for a degree in 18th Century Literature.
Would YOU ever do it? I definitely wouldn't. ESPECIALLY when there are tons of stories on the internet. So is that the fault of the school? Or is it the fault of the kids who decided to do it anyway, despite the writing on the wall?

You chose a path other than dentistry because of the cost, time, potential ROI, etc. You demonstrated excellent critical thinking and evaluated the big picture to decide if it was worth it for you. Now, you don't have this debt hanging on your shoulders. I very much respect your decision. But if you hadn't made this choice, would you be upset with yourself? Or the school you chose to attend?

You're aware that this nonsense is what's going to lead to bankruptcies among the public for care correct?

Like my kid is going to get told that he has nine cavities so that the dentist can over bill to pay his student loans.

Students each year are NOT aware that the tuition is actively hiked and jacked from guaranteed federal funding. They are operating off of the last generations notions that this is actually going to be able to be ok.

They don't even know the tax code hasn't conformed to fix this yet. Accountants are vomiting when they realize how much debt students are in.

If you don't think this should be criminal then idk what to tell you except that some students are going to literally snap.

 

[Axiomatician]

What is everyone's idea of a reasonable COA from a dental school?

Anything above $400k before interests accrues its outrageous. Really, $240k is outrageous. 240K to about $300k before you get out of dental school, so you're talking about paying around 65k per year for 5 years if you want to get out of debt before you buy any nice cars/house.~5200 MONTHLY

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[allantois]

Not predatory education. None of them are, NONE. No one is forcing anyone to go there and spend >$50K a year for four years for a degree in 18th Century Literature.
Would YOU ever do it? I definitely wouldn't. ESPECIALLY when there are tons of stories on the internet. So is that the fault of the school? Or is it the fault of the kids who decided to do it anyway, despite the writing on the wall?

You chose a path other than dentistry because of the cost, time, potential ROI, etc. You demonstrated excellent critical thinking and evaluated the big picture to decide if it was worth it for you. Now, you don't have this debt hanging on your shoulders. I very much respect your decision. But if you hadn't made this choice, would you be upset with yourself? Or the school you chose to attend?

Oh I'm definitely upset that cost of education even has to be a part of the equation for the profession I chose. I was born outside of the US and was going to become a dentist after high school. But all education is nearly free in Europe.

The issue is multifactorial where students, government and schools have all failed at providing a good education at a reasonable cost to future generation of doctors/dentists/etc. It's totally unsustainable.

I'll give you an anology of a dishonest dentist who sees and drills cavities where there are no cavities. Yes, the patients who agree to treatment should know better (but how?) The government has not been able to recognize what that dentist is up to. But finally the dentist should be ashamed of himself for the product he is providing to the public, just as NYU should be ashamed of leading the way in outrageous educational costs. There should be consumer protections for students, as clearly not everyone is able to recognize that the schools are too expensive for them. Of course there is a fanatical belief among many in this country, which is also seen in your posts, that free markets work, even when they clearly aren't that free and don't work as in the case of dental school education.

 

[738177]

if you're going into debt over 350k you're making a huge mistake. period.

Your starting salary (on average) will be ~1/3rd of that.

 

[Axiomatician]

Oh I'm definitely upset that cost of education even has to be a part of the equation for the profession I chose. I was born outside of the US and was going to become a dentist after high school. But all education is nearly free in Europe.

The issue is multifactorial where students, government and schools have all failed at providing a good education at a reasonable cost to future generation of doctors/dentists/etc. It's totally unsustainable.

I'll give you an anology of a dishonest dentist who sees and drills cavities where there are no cavities. Yes, the patients who agree to treatment are not smart enough to know better that their teeth are actually fine. The government has not been able to catch up to what that dentist is up to. But finally the dentist should be ashamed for the product he is providing to the public, just as NYU should be ashamed of leading the way in outrageous educational costs. There should be consumer protections for students, as clearly not everyone is able to recognize that the schools are too expensive for them. Of course, there is an obsessive belief among people in this country that free markets work, even when they clearly don't as students pay no attention whatsoever to what the cost of their education is.

Then the only choice is to require more pay, higher insurance reimbursements, etc.? You have to remember, the dentists currently making the 'average salary' of just above 100k per year also didn't have to pay 300-400-500 thousand dollars for their education. They only payed a fraction of that.

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