Pod STUDENTS with publications...

[emericana]

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So I have a question for you current pod students.

I am very interested in research, not necessarily basic science research but podiatry/biomechanic research in general (anything to move forward the profession).

I was wondering... how common is it to get a publication out during pod school?

How many current students know other students who get published/go to poster conferences while they are students (versus afterwards)...

I would imagine that a heftier CV (with more publicatoins/presentations) makes you a better contender for top residency placements no?

From what I gather Scholl is the best place for research.

I am currently debating between Scholl and Temple for next year... If any scholl or temple students could shine light on this it would be very helpful.

I love the mental stimulation that research gives me (have a publication already in Neuroscience) and am excited to move into a field of research that does not require that I murder rats to get data 😀

 

[347932]

Deleted for my giving terrible advice. Sorry guys. Thanks for setting the record straight Ankle Breaker.

 

[DancerPod]

I'm with Ankle Breaker on this one. I was able to get published in Clinical Anatomy (Original Communication) after my first semester at NYCPM. I've got two poster projects submitted to a conference for this summer, and that should turn into a case study ready for submission by the end of the year. There are two more freshman in my class that are submitting research to a couple of Neuroscience Journals, and I know one of our Juniors has three publications. Members of our Surgery Club just won an award at a conference for one of their poster projects. These are just people that I know off the top of my head.
If you want it, research and publication opportunities are there.

 

[emericana]

I'm with Ankle Breaker on this one. I was able to get published in Clinical Anatomy (Original Communication) after my first semester at NYCPM. I've got two poster projects submitted to a conference for this summer, and that should turn into a case study ready for submission by the end of the year. There are two more freshman in my class that are submitting research to a couple of Neuroscience Journals, and I know one of our Juniors has three publications. Members of our Surgery Club just won an award at a conference for one of their poster projects. These are just people that I know off the top of my head.
If you want it, research and publication opportunities are there.

Cool... I am assuming that research in theory should help you get a better shot at the competitive residencies as well?

 

[Sig Savant]

The easiest way to get a normal program is just to get the director to like you. You can have 100 papers, be involved in everything, great GPA, but it all comes down to if that person likes you.

Top programs, yeah it helps to have a ton of research, but your GPA has to be top notch before they care about anything else.

 

[DancerPod]

It should help distinguish you from those that didn't do research. That's really the key. Some programs will care more than others, because some residencies want you to do research and present/publish every year (like Scripps). But before the interview, you're just a piece of paper. If you have research publications it will set you apart, like holding a class officer position, or being active in clubs, just don't do it at the expense of everything else.

 

[dyk343]

I too will likely be published while still in school. I did research in undergrad and was never published.. I also didnt discover anything worth writing about (none of which was my fault, research doesnt always turn out the way you hope).

Im currently researching some really interesting "stuff" right now with good chances of being published.

"stuff" will remain stuff to conceal my identity.

 

[dyk343]

It should help distinguish you from those that didn't do research. That's really the key. Some programs will care more than others, because some residencies want you to do research and present/publish every year (like Scripps). But before the interview, you're just a piece of paper. If you have research publications it will set you apart, like holding a class officer position, or being active in clubs, just don't do it at the expense of everything else.

Some residencies even require research for them to even look at your application.

 

[doc1107]

Some residencies even require research for them to even look at your application.

such as?

 

[dyk343]

such as?

I believe Harvard. You can look all that stuff up online.

Other residencies have other things they look for. I forgot the program but there is one out there that said they would not take anyone who is not/was not an athlete of some form.

 

[Feli]

Your knowledge base comes first and foremost (first basic sciences, then clinical knowledge and skill set). That almost always correlates pretty well with gpa - but nothing is 100%. Work ethic and personality displayed on clerkships are also paramount, but that's usually more of an innate thing - which you honestly can't "fake" - and would likely be miserable in residency if you did.

ECs, research, community service, sports, etc might be minor actors in the match, but you should do them more out of genuine personal interest and growth than simple self promotion. I'd always suggest that pod students focus on constructing a solid foundation before starting to think about the color of the shingles that will cover the roof.

 

[oldpod]

ccccccccccccc

 

[oldpod]

From what I've read I don't think so. There are a lot of other factors that go into gaining a position at a great program. You could have an amazing academic record but if you don't have "good hand eye coordination" then what good are you going to be as a surgeon? The research definitely helps distinguish students from others who don't pursue it but it probably doesn't guarantee anything in terms of gaining a residency.

you got that right. i co-authored 3 published articles in podiatry, and one was published from my previous job before podiatry school. i did the statistical analysis for a very important attending pod in a program i really wanted. didn't match there. when it comes down to it, your professional connections don't mean squat these days. it's who you've partied with and whom you've lived in the dorm with. it has very little to do with your objective status as an intelligent, compassionate, hardworking and high-achieving future clinician. yes, i'm a little pissed off still. 😡

 

[Xforward22]

Your knowledge base comes first and foremost (first basic sciences, then clinical knowledge and skill set). That almost always correlates pretty well with gpa - but nothing is 100%. Work ethic and personality displayed on clerkships are also paramount, but that's usually more of an innate thing - which you honestly can't "fake" - and would likely be miserable in residency if you did.

ECs, research, community service, sports, etc might be minor actors in the match, but you should do them more out of genuine personal interest and growth than simple self promotion. I'd always suggest that pod students focus on constructing a solid foundation before starting to think about the color of the shingles that will cover the roof.

About how long do you advise taking to establish this base? Do you see that most students get a feel for the amount of studying time required after the first semester? Or maybe you recommend taking the whole first year to establish a study routine before seeing what else you can handle? I know this kind of depends on the person, but what worked for everyone else?

 

[air bud]

DMU's research program doesn't start until the summer after 1st year on break.

 

[347932]

you got that right. i co-authored 3 published articles in podiatry, and one was published from my previous job before podiatry school. i did the statistical analysis for a very important attending pod in a program i really wanted. didn't match there. when it comes down to it, your professional connections don't mean squat these days. it's who you've partied with and whom you've lived in the dorm with. it has very little to do with your objective status as an intelligent, compassionate, hardworking and high-achieving future clinician. yes, i'm a little pissed off still. 😡

I'm truly sorry you feel this way. Yes, it sucks, BUT take heart that you never know when your previously accomplishments may shine a light in the dark. Believe me. Keep pushing.

 

[Feli]

About how long do you advise taking to establish this base? Do you see that most students get a feel for the amount of studying time required after the first semester? Or maybe you recommend taking the whole first year to establish a study routine before seeing what else you can handle? I know this kind of depends on the person, but what worked for everyone else?

That's really a question only each individual can answer for themself.

I think it's a good idea to just focus on classes first year. Of course doing some pod school club activities, sports, etc is a fun break from studying... but probably save running for officer positions, etc until you know you can handle the workload and are getting the grades and knowledge base you want. 👍

 

[Feli]

...when it comes down to it, your professional connections don't mean squat ...

I would strongly disagree here. Personal relationships are the key to any business.

...Especially in a relatively small specialty like podiatry, I've found that those personal and professional relationships can definitely make or break your residency placement, jobs afterwards, referrals from other docs, and just plain happy patients (and office staff).

 

[oldpod]

I would strongly disagree here. Personal relationships are the key to any business.

...Especially in a relatively small specialty like podiatry, I've found that those personal and professional relationships can definitely make or break your residency placement, jobs afterwards, referrals from other docs, and just plain happy patients (and office staff).

Oh, how nice (and naive) to think that your personal relationships matter. That's the real world. This is the world of podiatry, where there are too many students, not enough spots, and people willing to play the system to the point of unethical behavior in order to get what they want. For those looking at match next year, just beware there is no rhyme or reason. All this advice people give you - work hard, have a good attitude, be nice to office staff, blah blah blah - doesn't mean diddly. If you get the spot, it's not because you earned it. It means that the decision makers' emotions were in your favor. In other words, you were lucky. Don't go telling people anything else. These decisions are not merit-based whatsoever. You folks after this year will see.

 

[janV88]

Oh, how nice (and naive) to think that your personal relationships matter. That's the real world. This is the world of podiatry, where there are too many students, not enough spots, and people willing to play the system to the point of unethical behavior in order to get what they want. For those looking at match next year, just beware there is no rhyme or reason. All this advice people give you - work hard, have a good attitude, be nice to office staff, blah blah blah - doesn't mean diddly. If you get the spot, it's not because you earned it. It means that the decision makers' emotions were in your favor. In other words, you were lucky. Don't go telling people anything else. These decisions are not merit-based whatsoever. You folks after this year will see.

Maybe their decisions take into account both merit AND personality...😕

 

[347932]

Oh, how nice (and naive) to think that your personal relationships matter. That's the real world. This is the world of podiatry, where there are too many students, not enough spots, and people willing to play the system to the point of unethical behavior in order to get what they want. For those looking at match next year, just beware there is no rhyme or reason. All this advice people give you - work hard, have a good attitude, be nice to office staff, blah blah blah - doesn't mean diddly. If you get the spot, it's not because you earned it. It means that the decision makers' emotions were in your favor. In other words, you were lucky. Don't go telling people anything else. These decisions are not merit-based whatsoever. You folks after this year will see.

As you pointed out, this is the real world. It has nothing to do with Podiatry. Ask any Law student right now and they will be singing the same song. You sound very bitter. Perhaps attitude is above all else.

 

[Podfather]

Oh, how nice (and naive) to think that your personal relationships matter. That's the real world. This is the world of podiatry, where there are too many students, not enough spots, and people willing to play the system to the point of unethical behavior in order to get what they want. For those looking at match next year, just beware there is no rhyme or reason. All this advice people give you - work hard, have a good attitude, be nice to office staff, blah blah blah - doesn't mean diddly. If you get the spot, it's not because you earned it. It means that the decision makers' emotions were in your favor. In other words, you were lucky. Don't go telling people anything else. These decisions are not merit-based whatsoever. You folks after this year will see.

In our case each year we look at academic success, poise and clinical thought process during the interview, and finally how the applicant's learning style/personality will fit into our program. It's a combination of merit, personality, how they process data, and their ability to assimilate into our program. You are correct about too many graduates for positions but IMO that's about it.

 

[podpal]

Oh, how nice (and naive) to think that your personal relationships matter. That's the real world. This is the world of podiatry, where there are too many students, not enough spots, and people willing to play the system to the point of unethical behavior in order to get what they want. For those looking at match next year, just beware there is no rhyme or reason. All this advice people give you - work hard, have a good attitude, be nice to office staff, blah blah blah - doesn't mean diddly. If you get the spot, it's not because you earned it. It means that the decision makers' emotions were in your favor. In other words, you were lucky. Don't go telling people anything else. These decisions are not merit-based whatsoever. You folks after this year will see.

CASPR is a roll of the dice! Then again, going on externships is a roll of the dice.

How many students visit big programs and see the director once or twice? The chief resident who may resent you isn't going to help and may even berate you at the interviews.

I'm sure it's still happening. It happened to me on externship. The chief resident wanted to know why women were in podiatry. He delighted in telling me that I was lower than the dirt on the attendings shoe. Now this guy is probably in charge somewhere torturing more unsuspecting female externs.

The only hope is to keep rolling the dice till you get lucky!

 

[Podfather]

CASPR is a roll of the dice! Then again, going on externships is a roll of the dice.

How many students visit big programs and see the director once or twice? The chief resident who may resent you isn't going to help and may even berate you at the interviews.

I'm sure it's still happening. It happened to me on externship. The chief resident wanted to know why women were in podiatry. He delighted in telling me that I was lower than the dirt on the attendings shoe. Now this guy is probably in charge somewhere torturing more unsuspecting female externs.

The only hope is to keep rolling the dice till you get lucky!

How is CASPR a roll of the dice? You apply to a program, get interviewed, and then the programs rank their picks and the applicants do the same. You will get the program that you ranked the highest who also ranked you and went to that number in the match. BTW we never poll the resident and use them as a source of information if applicants want to know more about the program. That is their only role.

 

[janV88]

CASPR is a roll of the dice! Then again, going on externships is a roll of the dice.

How many students visit big programs and see the director once or twice? The chief resident who may resent you isn't going to help and may even berate you at the interviews.

I'm sure it's still happening. It happened to me on externship. The chief resident wanted to know why women were in podiatry. He delighted in telling me that I was lower than the dirt on the attendings shoe. Now this guy is probably in charge somewhere torturing more unsuspecting female externs.

The only hope is to keep rolling the dice till you get lucky!

All the reasons you gave show non-random selection...

 

[PADPM]

CASPR is a roll of the dice! Then again, going on externships is a roll of the dice.

How many students visit big programs and see the director once or twice? The chief resident who may resent you isn't going to help and may even berate you at the interviews.

I'm sure it's still happening. It happened to me on externship. The chief resident wanted to know why women were in podiatry. He delighted in telling me that I was lower than the dirt on the attendings shoe. Now this guy is probably in charge somewhere torturing more unsuspecting female externs.

The only hope is to keep rolling the dice till you get lucky!

Are you always the victim?? Even if this did occur, do you really believe this is indicative of the norm? Every time I read your posts, it seems as if your glass is always half empty. Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe you are responsible for your own predicament?

 

[Feli]

Oh, how nice (and naive) to think that your personal relationships matter. That's the real world. This is the world of podiatry, where there are too many students, not enough spots, and people willing to play the system to the point of unethical behavior in order to get what they want. For those looking at match next year, just beware there is no rhyme or reason. All this advice people give you - work hard, have a good attitude, be nice to office staff, blah blah blah - doesn't mean diddly. If you get the spot, it's not because you earned it. It means that the decision makers' emotions were in your favor. In other words, you were lucky. Don't go telling people anything else. These decisions are not merit-based whatsoever. You folks after this year will see.

I don't say this often, but... this is total BS, and you have almost no idea what you're talking about. What you are saying simply does not make sense. Is there some nepotism in podiatry match/jobs/etc? Yeah, there's that in any profession. Are the highest quality positions met with cut-throat competition? Sometimes. As you said yourself, this is the real world.

Life can be a lot more similar to high school than we like to think, but at the end of the day, residency is hard work, a program reputation and quality is on the line, and they will almost invariably choose the best people for the task. Keep in mind that doesn't always mean choosing the "best" (smartest/researcher) students, it also means choosing the "right" ones (personality, work ethic, conscience). My director sometimes states that "some students would be better off not doing clerkships," and he is jokingly implying that some students have a strong paper (gpa/boards/research/etc) application yet burn bridges on rotations by causing friction, questionable interest / work ethic, very timid or very agressive, etc. On the contrary, there are some students who, on paper, probably barely get accepted to their clerkships or interview... but proceed to win over people with their interest, clinical knowledge, work ethic, and personality. There are no concrete rules... except that personal relationships DO matter, and you barely ever get a second chance at a first impression.

Case in point: I am a resident in an area with a high concentration of residency programs (10+ and growing) and dozens of match spots each year. Logically, a lot of students will schedule clerkship rotations and visits which have them visiting with multiple programs in my metro area: the "Detroit circuit," if you will. Well, guess what? When rank/match time rolls around, the better students are usually highly ranked by every program they clerk at. I would bet money that there are some students who are ranked at every program they clerk at (Det or elsewhere), and there are others who are not ranked by any (decent, non-desperate) residency program that they visit. Why is that so? I though you said you had to be "lucky" (a word that both oldpod and podpal seem very fond of 😕 )? Maybe a lot of people tend to confuse other people's "luck" with being talented + being friendly + working their azz off?

It's no different than any other job, sports, etc... there are talented, hardworking people who get highly recruited, and there are other people struggle to eek out a job. Hard work usually does pay off in the vast majority of cases; people who are talented, have good work ethic, display nice personality, and are interested in their career will always thrive.