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Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by meanderson, May 3, 2004.
Can't believe I had to post this.
Are you serious? You should already be donning a Panthers jersey.
But you are going to Emory right?
how can there be 9 votes when there have only been 3 views??
i think pitt is much better (about thrice the research funding), but tufts is cool too. still, i said pitt.
uhhh, i think meanderson has a weird problem with tufts. I dunno, someone said he's going to emory, he's must be very proud of that or something...probably has a chip on his shoulder. maybe he went to a really bad undergrad and is getting his revenge . Congrats on doing well!!!, but you're just being annoying now. i doubt you even did that well on your mcat, but i don't want to turn this into a pissing contest though. I am not going to compare emory to schools ranked higher than it, because polls are juvenile. i am sure your classmates at emory will think you're a douchebag. do you want some special prize for going to emory? should we all either go to emory or back into a corner? wtf is emory? who cares?
i hate you so much right now.
like, i totally get it, tufts is not as cheap as a state school! and that its not as hard to get into as pitt or even emory. but honestly, i withdrew from everywhere (eventually, i was lazy, haha) when i got into tufts, including my ranked state school. i like it a lot! the only thing i didn't withdraw from early was your mom's sweaty...ok sorry, haha.
here's the post i wrote that he didn't respond to:
i was checking out your posts, meanderson, and it seems you're one of the people that really have a problem with tufts, but there is no good reason why. Do you know how many schools charge over 55k to go to school there for a year? Tufts is charging just a few thou over that, and brings a strong reputation, cool location, and diverse student body to the equation. Tufts is not ranked as high as northwestern, but it matches pretty well, better than sinai and einstein. You don't seem to around telling people not to go to Temple, EVMS, NYMed, Einstein, dartmouth, gtown, etc...
Every doctor i've talked to seemed pleasantly surprised i was going to tufts. That does not mean much, but i certainly would value their opinion more than yours. I mean, even after comparing match lists with UAB and seeing that Tufts' was better, you found it necessary to say that UAB students could match better, if they wanted to. Well, i think your conjectures are taking things a bit too far. Last time i checked, we don't rate how successful someone is based on what they "could've" done. Also, if i wanted to know what 90% of the medical community thinks, i'm sure a matchlist would be a better representation then your comments.
i am pretty sure you have the belief that only tufts is just very expensive, but every private school is. Duke might have enough money to give aid, but most kids aren't even looking at a school like that. In addition, for a lot of kids, we can't get aid, so then a few thousand bucks is not worth going to some place we'd rather not go.
so why so bitter? you can't afford tufts? thats too bad, some of us can (or are willing to take loans) and since i don't get pissy at poor kids and URM's for getting financial aid (free money, mind you), so you shouldn't get annoyed with the way i choose to spend my family's earned money. Not everyone is as concerned about saving money as you. If you feel like bashing me for wealth, that's stupid. I think its better to make more money and spend it freely then to try to act like making money is not important and then being cheap all the time. To each his own, but i think you should lay off of Tufts for being expensive, for their are many other schools that are less reputable, have worse locations, less diversity, worse matchlists, and are just as expensive.
Put your money where your mouth is and back up this claim. I'm curious how you came to this conclusion.
while Tufts is a good school, its is NOT better than Pitt, nor is it better than MSSM. Its find to have school pride, but this is taking it a little too far. comon now.
Take PITT! You have no idea how that will help you when you apply for residency. Tufts and MSSM have nothing up on it. If you are worried about social life and fun - DON'T. In med school those will be limited and you will find yourself going to the same bars with the same people no matter where you are. You only got one shot to go to med school don't factor location into it as much. Pittsburgh has enough to do for a few years. Plus Pittsburgh basketball and the tons of grad students will keep you busy for a few years. Plus UPMC is simply an amazing health care system.
There is no comparison. Pitt is the best choice. Yes, Tufts is a fine school. Then again, most US schools are. My dad's close friend, family friend, is a graduate of Tufts. But the answer is and you didn't need a poll to know this, Pitt all the way.
I don't have a weird problem with tufts. I have a problem with people who have chosen to go to tufts and imply that tufts = schools ranked #13-23 or so in terms of reputation. I posted this poll really as just an obvious way of pointing out the mainstream opinion that most people don't consider tufts to be the equivalent of a northwestern or pittsburgh. I mean just look at the responses in this thread. many people find it's absurd that you're trying to compare to the reputation of pitt and tufts.
And no, I probably will decide not to go to emory for financial reasons. But even if i did, I wouldn't be jealous of the students who go to top 10 schools and I also wouldn't look down on students who go to non top 30 schools.
For the most part, where you go to medical school isn't the most important thing(excluding schools like HHDSP, etc)
To me it just makes no sense to go to tufts at a budget of 65k/year(!) if you are holding a state school acceptance with a budget of 35k/year(!). But thats all Im going to say about tufts because it's obviously upset some people and I didn't intend to do that.
Perhaps the most overtold joke I've heard since being accepted is 'what do you call the person who graduates last in medical school?......Doctor.' I think you guys put way too much emphasis on school rankings. The rankings themselves are flawed so it turns into a pissing contest between schools. Some schools suck at research and have excellent repuatations for clincal and specialized care. Here are a few websites that explore the rankings' shortcomings:
I'm not saying that some schools are not stronger than others in certain areas or have a better reputation overall...simply that there's a whole lot more to a school than one little number. In some respects, almost any school can be compared to one ranked in the 'top 25' and still in up on top in at least one area.
Comparing 2003, we have more harvard matches, they have more nyc matches. We have more surgery, ortho, plastic (they have none) neuro (none), radiology. They have 2 derms, we have one. we have a larger class, but 6 ortho (7 this year) to 2 of theirs?
You can't call sinai's list stronger. Sorry. I einstein's is less impressive than sinai's as well, from what i recall from november or so.
Let it go, man, just let it go...
I agree w/ bearpaws. to hell w/ the rankings. pitt might be a slightly better school but not significantly enough to make many want to spend 4+ years in the boonies. how you end up matching is completely dependent on how you do in school and your USMLE, Pitt isnt gonna provide an equal caliber applicant an advantage.
no, i'd rather just tear this animal a new hole. i don't think tufts is an amazing school, but i am not a liar or a narcissist...everything i say is backed by fact. Tufts is a good school with a good reputation, better than most state schools and far better than the schools this jerk compares it to. i know the matchlist is good, suprisingly good to some.
oh, what does it say here? tufts has more competitive matches than both sinai, and pitt.
check out pitts match, but its old:
hmmm, lots of local hospitals there, not many big names. maybe the rep doesn't extend far beyond pennsylvania? you would have to AT LEAST say tufts' match list is at least equal. I would say Tuft's is better, as i am certain all those CA, Boston, and NYC matches are much harder to get then those in philly. I've seen good matchlists, like yale, stanford's: those are clearly better then Tufts and Sinai. But this Pitt bs? sorry. I know pitt is an amazing school, nice facilities. But lets not act like Pitt's name is "letting residency directors know what's up". HMS, columbia: amazing. Emory, Pitt: sorry bub.
now, i'm going after it: where is emory's matchlist? i doubt its better than tufts as well. they seem to not put it online, searching sdn just showed other people who were looking for it as well. well, the burden of proof is on you meanderson. I guess EMORY's matchlist is not worth writing home about either.
i decided to do my homework and shut you up. I want you to respond, but as i've decided to take an offensive stance that is clearly backed up by fact and not "loser" conjecture, i doubt you'll have anything productive left to say. Of course, you could do the typical SDN thing and ignore my long list of arguments and make another one that does nothing to even parry what i have said.
i came to this conclusion by looking at the matchlists and tallying the number of competitive matches. i also compared hospitals. in addition, i looked at locality and understood that more sinai kids want to stay in nyc and tufts kids seem to want to be in cali (i guess boston does that to you).
its not a perfect formula, of course, but it works well enough.
I have a problem with people quoting average MCATs and using them to say that one school is better than another, especially when that person scored a 32 on the test.
Meanderson, perhaps you could have gotten into a "better" school with a score that was farther from "average."
quote from Meanderson's past post
"I know this a troll, but I would guess the *best* correlation with a 1440 sat would be about a 33 mcat. After adjusting for the different testing populations.
I prepared pretty well for the sat and scored 1440. That was about what I expected to make based on practice tests. I prepared pretty well for the mcat and expected a 35-37....froze up on my best section and scored 32.
I knew someone from college who scored 840 on his SAT and 30 on the mcat. He probably took every practice test from every company he could find(at least 45 practice tests). But it paid off for him."
That is last year's MSSM match list. I don't really feel like arguing with someone who is so unilaterally biased towards a certain school. Best of luck to you.
My diploma is going to look prettier than yours on the wall....and bigger too.
Well that depends patty. Is it in Latin? lol
The only person that truely can state which is better is someone that has attened both Tufts and Pitt for med school. Anyone?
I don't think so.
well, of course i would defend my own school. On the allopathic forum, those numbers were from the same year, i believe 2003. I put the link of the 2003 matchlist too.
i was not attacking sinai, but when people tell me to prove a point (implying i am talking out of my a$$), i am happy to do so. I withdrew from Sinai after tufts, i was not crazy in doing so. I am sick of reading all these posts where kids say "definately go to jefferson over tufts...no one wants to go there." or kids saying "sinai is clearly heads and feet above tufts". "Pitt has amazing opportunities, how can you even compare tufts to it."
Simply put, you can compare, based on the result of the graduates. I think sinai is a good school. Its not amazing though. If the graduates aren't going anywhere special compared to tufts, how much superior can Sinai be? So either the same insults should be thrown at sinai, or withdrawn from tufts. OK?
well, compare the matchlists, ok? look at jefferson's matchlist. look at umdnj's. i haven't and i don't feel i need to.
match lists dont mean much.. its too hard to read into them, especially since we dont know what there iterests were for students in each school. If noone at hopkins wanted to go to ophtho and thus matched zero ophtho, does that make it a bad school? There are too many variables, so I dont thikn comparing lists will help anyone much. jhmo
ive been following this thread and have to ask bearpaw this question. if you got accepted to nwu, pitt, emory, vandy, etc... would you still be going to and so enthusiastic about tufts? honestly?
Both schools are excellent, and if you were to do well at either institution, you would secure an excellent residency spot somewhere. All these arguments about the relative quality of match lists is pointless--there are no significant differences between the residency placements of Tufts and Pitt grads. Admittedly, Pitt's 2004 match list is impressive (perhaps, more so than Tufts') but it's just one year. I've seen previous match lists for both schools, and Pitt's residency placements in previous years are not as strong as this year's. Maybe the 2004 graduating class at Pitt was full of gunners. Who knows. So you should just go with your gut feeling on this one, assuming of course that you'll graduate with approximately the same amount of debt in either case.
HOWEVER, if you're passionate about emergency medicine, general surgery, orthopaedics, or ENT, you should matriculate at Pitt, as these departments there are among the very best in the country. Otherwise, go where you'll be happy.
P.S. I'm sacrificing around 180K of future income for happiness. Go Blue!
I would. I didn't apply to any of those schools, and I don't mean to impy that they aren't wonderful schools. Regional preference has a lot to do with it. Honestly, I would seriously consider NWU, but I would prefer to live in Boston.
I consider it immature and naive to say that vandy or pitt are much better than GWU, BU, Tufts, Loyola, etc. All of these schools are great.
honestly, i would go to northwestern if admitted, as long as my parents were cool with it (they wanna be in driving distance). If location was not a factor, 100% northwestern i would say. I did apply there. However, I would not have gone to any of the southern schools or pitt. I didn't even apply to those schools, despite them being in my range or whatever.
The reason i am so upset with meanderson is because he is not conducting a poll whether HE should go to Pitt or Tufts, as some of you might think. He is only conducting a poll to argue that Tufts is just a bad school and is worse than any school he has mentioned in previous posts. He asserts basically that Tufts is everyone's last choice and it is a crappy school. I don't believe that...in fact, i resent it. He has something against Tufts for some reason, and he bashes anyone who supports it.
I have time, so i figure what the hell, i'll stick up for my school. I think pitt and all those places are good, I just don't think that tufts is bad!!!
Since we're all about the rankings here...I've actually gotten somewhat curious. Does anyone know of a good source of med school specialized rankings? Peds, EM, etc.?
That depends more on residency placement than on the actual Med School.
Well I gotta say you are going about that an interestung way. Over 75% of the people responding in the survery think it isn't even a close call in pitt's direction. I guarantee you that a GW vs Tufts Poll would produce MUCH closer results than Tufts vs Pitt. I've always lumped schools like GW and Tufts togther in terms of rep much more closely than schools like vandy and pitt, and it's apparent that most everyone on sdn agrees with me. I'd even go out on a limb and say GW would win a tufts vs gw poll.
And although you keep on saying that I said Tufts is everyone's backup school, I don't recall doing so. Schools like finch and nymc are more obvious choices here. Tufts is a fine school and if you want to live in boston really bad and don't mind the high price, it may be a good fit.
i don't care what people on sdn say, in real life i know tufts is good. (btw, tufts is only 60k, not 65k). on sdn, people recommend going to ucsd over harvard...thats bs. or say rice is the same as princeton. some kid was arguing that MIT was no harder than Wisconsin. thats all stupid.
There are clear winners and there are things that are not so cut and dry. Sinai, pitt, tufts, sorry, there's no clear winner. You may think that after staring at USNEW's list, but if one looks at where grads end up, no difference is seen. I don't think a few bored college students and even more under-employed "non-trads" really hold the monopoly on what the public and world think about anything. I just decided to post the match lists. What the hell is point of going to school in pittsburg when you can't get a better residency than going to sinai or tufts? the match list is the most important comparison tool. Why is princeton better than rice? look what the grads do. Why is mit better than W? same thing.
why is pitt better than tufts? if you look at the success of the graduates, its not better. its cheaper and has nice hospitals, but then again tufts has name value and a far better location, with residents getting residencies in much cooler places too.
i note you are backing down from your initial aggressive stance. your gw comment about holding a poll was a half hearted attempt to rile me up. look at the gw matchlist, it is not comparable. neither are the other schools you try to lump tufts with.
oh i just joined usnews online too, and if you rank programs by residency directors, tufts is ranked with sinai and is HIGHER than nyu, einstein, usc, gtown, brown, ucd and all the usual culprits.
tufts is only a fraction of a point below dartmouth, baylor, and case (among others).
so perhaps you should re-adjust the schools you lump tufts with. the acceptance rate for last years class was less than 6%. The average mcat was higher than the 10.2 listed on usnews right now.
i guess i'm done, as i've proved my point.
USNews self-perpetuates the ranking. I bet MSSM's best residency match will be next year. Those students matriculated when MSSM was ranked 22. After that year, there will be a drop in residency matchlist since MSSM dropped below 30 the following year.
On that note, UPitt's residency matchlist is going to skyrocket as they have been climbing the US News ranking. Tufts on the other hand will probably drop as their US News ranking has been dropping.
i say tufts because i love the red sox.
so really - this opinion doesnt even matter.
have a nice day
Lets try to keep our comparisons in the present or past, as predicting the future of both matchlists and rankings are nothing other than exercises in futility. I could as easily say tufts is more selective this year, and as student debt is rising, the main factors that caused tufts to fall from its previous mid 30's rank in the late 90's will be mitigated.
i see that Tufts fell from 43 last year to 40 this year.
but we can agree, that based on the facts of today, mt. sinai and tufts match at least equally well? thank you.
i pretty much agree that tufts is usually underrated and unfairly bashed by those on this board. BUT, the residency matches are not equal, pitt's is certainly better. UPMC is one of the top 10 or 15 hospitals in the US, therefore many pitt grads choose to stay there (and be w/their mentors, friends whatever). it's not fair to say anything connected w/ UPMC is some "small regional" whatever.
these two schools are pretty much equivalent. its like splitting hairs.
if UPMC is so coveted, why is it not really represented in the matchlists of other competitive schools, like harvard, jhu, northwestern, columbia? their matchlists seem to prefer harvard affiliates and big city hospitals. i have no doubt pitt has a good hospital, but i am sure the 14-17 harvard affiliated matches tufts has trumps that UPMC card. if a school is reliant on a regional bias to get good matches, i am sure that opportunities in boston are more coveted than those at Pitt.
all i can see from that matchlist is that pitt is good for matching at pitt. the out of state matches pitt has are generally mediocre.
i am sure pitt is a pretty school, with shiny hospitals and lots of sick people to play with. but it's not going to match you better then tufts, this being based on the matchlist alone.
You're ignoring a lot of their podunk matches on that matchlist.
Just look at the poll. I think it gives you a pretty good indicator of where people would prefer to go. For every 1 that would go to Tufts, 4 would go to Pitt.
I dont think bearpaw is going to give up until we agree that tufts = harvard.
bearpaw, it seems that youre very happy with your opportunity to attend tufts despite what others might say about it which is more than lots of other people can say about their own schools so who gives a **** about this arguement.
Well I have yet to see anyone refute bearpaw's argument:
1. Most of Pitt's "great" matches are at UPMC.
2. If UPMC is such an amazing place to do residency, why do students from elite schools consistently refuse to pack up and do their residency there despite the less than desirable locale.
Sorry, it just doesnt add up.
The bottomline: Pitt is overrated.
that's it, i'm done.
my point was that Tufts matches just as well as many schools ranked above it. no one has refuted me, and despite accusations, i did not say anything that was not backed up with substantial evidence.
sorry to bring sinai "down" to tufts level, but hey, facts are facts. perhaps now those looking at places from steeltown to new brunswick have real reason to reconsider.
I am sorry, but I do not consider Loyola to be anywhere near the other schools listed. I am surprised no one raised the point.
On another note, Vandy has an awesome matchlist, at least on cursory glance.