You're*dude your dumb. I took it twice had 2 competitive scores
You're*dude your dumb. I took it twice had 2 competitive scores
What make you think the goal of pursuing a career in medicine should be uniform across the board? People have different motivation in life and I think pursuing a career because of salary and job stability is 100% legitimate in my book... You really think OP should continue with his/her quest for vet medicine even if he/said that starting salary is around 40k/year and it is hard to find get a job when vet school is as expensive as med school? I think @Being said that on previous post... Do you really think med school will be that competitive if physicians salary drop to 40k/year and it is hard to get a job?Um, I think you are way way way off base.
First, my point with the Walmart employee is not that the OP should become one, but was giving an example of someone who didn't have choices in life. The OP does.
Second, the goal isn't a reliable job with good money. The goal is a job you will enjoy, because you are going to spend most of your life doing it. Life shouldnt be a prison where you bide your time. Career changers who have worked before tend to have more insight on this perhaps.
Third, matching into ones first choice is irrelevant here -- the OPs first choice is being a vet. But even so, I think you have to realize that people's first choices are largely selected based on reality --ie you pick what is still possible based on your step 1 scores, etc. If you aren't at the top of your class you aren't going to be applying for derm or plastics, even if you started med school thinking that would be the dream. No med school advisor lets you apply far out of your league, so you are basically steered to what your first choice can be. The guy at the bottom of the class might have only a couple avenues to select from as his "first choice". If you are really a "med student" you should know this.
I think you shouldn't be quick to suggest who is being "naive" here. Some of us have been around the block and are far beyond these match statistics (which you clearly don't comprehend.) good luck with that.
What make you think the goal of pursuing a career in medicine should be uniform across the board? People have different motivation in life and I think pursuing a career because of salary and job stability is 100% legitimate in my book... You really think OP should continue with his/her quest for vet medicine even if he/said that starting salary is around 40k/year and it is hard to find get a job when vet school is as expensive as med school? I think @Being said that on previous post... Do you really think med school will be that competitive if physicians salary drop to 40k/year and it is hard to get a job?
Edit... You should not also assume that OP will not enjoy medicine.
I hope you're not being serious... he obviously meant avg. attending salary.It is. It's called intern year.
I hope you're not being serious... he obviously meant avg. attending salary.
I wanted to focus on my experience at the veterinary clinic in my PS because it had such a significant impact on why I wanted to go into medicine. Would you recommend this?
Um, I think you are way way way off base.
First, my point with the Walmart employee is not that the OP should become one, but was giving an example of someone who didn't have choices in life. The OP does.
Second, the goal isn't a reliable job with good money. The goal is a job you will enjoy, because you are going to spend most of your life doing it. Life shouldnt be a prison where you bide your time. Career changers who have worked before tend to have more insight on this perhaps.
Third, matching into ones first choice is irrelevant here -- the OPs first choice is being a vet. But even so, I think you have to realize that people's first choices are largely selected based on reality --ie you pick what is still possible based on your step 1 scores, etc. If you aren't at the top of your class you aren't going to be applying for derm or plastics, even if you started med school thinking that would be the dream. No med school advisor lets you apply far out of your league, so you are basically steered to what your first choice can be. The guy at the bottom of the class might have only a couple avenues to select from as his "first choice". If you are really a "med student" you should know this.
I think you shouldn't be quick to suggest who is being "naive" here. Some of us have been around the block and are far beyond these match statistics (which you clearly don't comprehend.) good luck with that.
Many people would enjoy being a movie star or a programmer at Google but that doesn't mean it's reasonable to pursue it at the risk of compromising your family's financial security. Not saying vet jobs are as hard to find as these, but it is certainly legitimate to pursue other, more reliable fields.
And the comparison to competitive residencies and step scores is more supportive of that argument - you should not pursue a plastics residency if it's extremely unlikely you will get a job (i.e. match) in it, especially if you have a family.
I guess the exception to this would be if OP absolutely cannot stand human medicine. It's reasonable to do something that you aren't quite as enthusiastic about in favor of being able to provide, but not necessarily if it's soul-crushing.
Residency is "soul crushing" even for many who actually like what they are doing. It would be mind bogglingly horrible if you didn't. It's not about being more or less enthusiastic so much as having some semblance of interest and excitement to get you through the lengthy training involved. Anyone can stomach a few months, maybe a year. That will be enough to get someone through the third year of med school, easy. But we are talking 3-7 years of training. That's a lot of 80 hour weeks and with overnights and black weekends. And with high expectations, a steep learning curve, and lives at stake. You kind of have to like it or it's too much to deal with.
If you guys don't want to take my word for it read some of the intern year posts on SDN. Lots of people looking into the abyss, lots of angst. I think a lot of people on here only have college and early med school as a frame of reference, and given that vantage point I'm sure it looks like something that's very doable and relatively painless even if you are just looking for the job security. But it's actually a really long hard path. And if you don't enjoy what you are doing that light at the end of the tunnel is a train. Most people who like what they are doing still have frequent "is it worth it" moments. But then you focus in on the things you enjoy about the job and dust yourself off and push through. If you didn't like it I can't even fathom what would be going on in your head. You can't exactly dust yourself off after an 80 hour very emotionally and physically draining week, one where you've gotten up in the dark and gone home in the dark every day, and say "at least it's a steady paycheck and health insurance". Please. Take it from someone who has done the steady paycheck thing before-- that really can't be all there is for you in this job. If it is you will quickly realize that's not enough to sustain you. You will hate life and there's not enough meat on that bone to sustain you.
There are plenty of jobs that pay the bills that don't require the same level of commitment and sacrifice. If you are good you can find job security in many fields. Only take this road if you think you'll actually like the journey.
If it was only the finances I was considering, I would absolutely not consider this field. As everyone has kindly reminded me, there are easier ways to make a good living wage.
I want to work in medicine. I enjoy the helping people and the diagnostic process is exciting to me. I have worked as a veterinary nurse for 2 years, and I do enjoy veterinary medicine. But I've also seen the stability of human medicine. And the similarities and differences. I'm sure for some people who have only seen the human side, they may think that animal medicine would be an easier field to get a leg up in, maybe easier treatment or diagnostic processes, but that's really not the case. I'm not looking for an "easier" field, obviously, as both are among the most challenging you can find, but I am looking for a MEDICAL career where compensation is somewhat reasonable considering the job descriptiontion. However I've not made any decisions yet.
Edit: I know that internships and residencies are grueling, and I am prepared to take that on for a career that I think I will enjoy. Finances aside. Veterinarians often go through internships and residencies as well, although it is not required.
Perhaps it's just ignorance on my end.You shouldn't assume OP WiLL enjoy medicine --that's the bigger stretch. People can have different motivations, but honestly to get through four years of med school and 3-7 years of residency your life will be awful if your motivation is anything other than enjoying it. This career isn't like college where you go home at the end of the day and still have much time to do much else. So it's pretty much the majority of your life. Any motivation besides enjoying it is basically Life sentence without parole. So no, I don't think there's wiggle room for people who just want stable paycheck. As for supposed guaranteed incomes, I think a number of specialties are seeing a bad market right now (cards, path, rads) so it's anyone's bet how stable doctors jobs will actually be in a decade.
I don't think the veterinary "internships" and "residencies" are even really the same "species" -- we aren't describing analogous experiences, I'm afraid.
At any rate, to a very large extent, it's the interpersonal aspects of medicine that make it more draining. You might want to consider whether what you like about veterinary medicine actually has a direct corollate in people medicine. Surgery might, the clinical aspects won't. I have a few college buddies who are vets and honestly their job has very little in common with mine. But most importantly they went into that field specifically because they wanted to work with animals. Not primarily to do procedures or stamp out illness or provide palliative relief. If it wasn't being a vet, they would probably run a kennel or work at the zoo. They would hate hate hate this people-oriented job. There's nothing for them here beyond the paycheck. And you can't even just work for the weekend because half the time you don't get one. And again it's a really bad career choice just for stability-- the trade offs are crazy.
I'm afraid you're being fairly ignorant. Veterinary residencies may not be the same as MD residencies but the job is NOT all about working with animals. In fact, it involves working with people who are afraid for their pets, often ignorant of the severity of their condition (in ER settings especially). To say veterinary medicine isn't people oriented is absurd. We may not be treating people, but if veterinarians did not want to work with people they wouldn't be long lasting in the field.
It's not all fluffy puppies and kittens. It is about treatment of illness and pain control. Veterinarians are trained surgeons. They aren't glorified pet sitters, as you seem to be indicating. They went to medical school too. Now, maybe I'm being overly sensitive but I'm sick of hearing the "veterinarians aren't REAL doctors" or "why don't you study actual medicine?" BS.
I'm sure you're excellent at your job. But you're acting all high and mighty and it's obnoxious. The message that you seem to be trying to send is that someone who originally has an interest in animal MEDICINE probably couldn't handle the rigors of human medicine. I hope that's not the message you're trying to get across.
Not overly sensitive, just misinterpreting.I'm afraid you're being fairly ignorant. Veterinary residencies may not be the same as MD residencies but the job is NOT all about working with animals. In fact, it involves working with people who are afraid for their pets, often ignorant of the severity of their condition (in ER settings especially). To say veterinary medicine isn't people oriented is absurd. We may not be treating people, but if veterinarians did not want to work with people they wouldn't be long lasting in the field.
It's not all fluffy puppies and kittens. It is about treatment of illness and pain control. Veterinarians are trained surgeons. They aren't glorified pet sitters, as you seem to be indicating. They went to medical school too. Now, maybe I'm being overly sensitive but I'm sick of hearing the "veterinarians aren't REAL doctors" or "why don't you study actual medicine?" BS.
I'm sure you're excellent at your job. But you're acting all high and mighty and it's obnoxious. The message that you seem to be trying to send is that someone who originally has an interest in animal MEDICINE probably couldn't handle the rigors of human medicine. I hope that's not the message you're trying to get across.
Ok. I haven't read all the posts because I couldn't stop laughing at this absurd idea. EASIER?!?!?! Can I please have some of what you're on???Keep in Mind, that veterinary school is quite a bit easier to get into regardless of what people will tell you. This is largely due to the reasons you named. My gf got in this year with 3.0 GPA, worse science GPA, and low GRE while I am on the waitlist for MD schools with a very high gpa, and competitive MCATs. Not as many prereqs for premed but excellence throughout is expected while prevet allows for a decent amount of screw ups
Ok. I haven't read all the posts because I couldn't stop laughing at this absurd idea. EASIER?!?!?! Can I please have some of what you're on???
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Read my other posts and then you would understand when I'm coming from. I firmly believe this and you can choose to disagree with me if you wish.
At any rate, to a very large extent, it's the interpersonal aspects of medicine that make it more draining. You might want to consider whether what you like about veterinary medicine actually has a direct corollate in people medicine. Surgery might, the clinical aspects won't. I have a few college buddies who are vets and honestly their job has very little in common with mine. But most importantly they went into that field specifically because they wanted to work with animals. Not primarily to do procedures or stamp out illness or provide palliative relief. If it wasn't being a vet, they would probably run a kennel or work at the zoo. They would hate hate hate this people-oriented job. There's nothing for them here beyond the paycheck. And you can't even just work for the weekend because half the time you don't get one. And again it's a really bad career choice just for stability-- the trade offs are crazy.
There is a level of disagreement I have with you on the topic. But there is also a level of understanding what you are saying too. Yes, people can get into vet school with "lower" GPA's, but it is not normal and is often a difficult road involving master degrees or gaining insanely high GRE scores, or having a few thousand hours of vet or research experience. It is not by any means an easy road to be accepted to vet school, nor is it an easy road to be accepted into med school.
There are so many differences between vet school and med school applications that you can not adequately compare the two. Really, though, that isn't the point of this thread or what the OP was making the thread for. Comparing the two is not really a worthwhile debate and both human medicine and veterinary medicine benefit from one another. Research done in veterinary medicine often spills over into human medicine and vice versa. Veterinarians are doctors who go through school learning about medicine and while some of the physiology is a bit different from humans it is often quite similar. It is also the reason why animal models are used for a starting point in human medical research, so don't discount vets just because you think they have it "easier" to get into school. There are too many varying factors between the two to make an accurate comparison as to who has it "easier". I may have "only" had a 3.5 cumulative GPA after undergrad, but I had over 10,000 hours of direct clinical experience with veterinarians, there is a balance as to what makes a good application to vet school, same thing with med school. GPA is only one factor of many.
If I work with a vet for long enough I am guaranteed to have over 10,000 hrs. If I study to the cows come home I am still unlikely to get a 40 on my MCAT or a score competitive enough to get into my top choice school.
Cool, thanks! Good to know I'm on the right track with this PS!Yes, absolutely - I wrote extensively about my veterinary experience in my PS. My major focus was on how my experience had shown me that some things I wanted out of a career were lacking in the veterinary field, and how my later clinical experience made me think that human medicine was a better fit for me.
If it's relevant to why you chose medicine, then (as far as I'm concerned) it belongs in your PS.
The interpersonal aspects of veterinary medicine also make it draining. Obviously the bond humans have with other humans is not comparable. Looking at someone and telling them their family member is dying is not anywhere near the same as telling someone that their dog of 15 years is dying, but there are significant interpersonal aspects of veterinary medicine that people forget about. Often times, veterinary medicine is more about discussing things with the owners, treatment plans, costs, etc instead of directly being with or near the animal. There is also an added complication within veterinary medicine of the owner being 100% financially responsible and it can get really draining to have to euthanize a puppy with a broken leg due to not enough funds. You would never let a human go with an untreated broken leg because they have insurance, that luxury is not given to vets and often times euthanasia becomes the option. It does get draining to do that and see that. It gets draining to have a client in your face telling you how horrible you are because you won't do something for free. There is a large amount of veterinary medicine that is interpersonal relationships. Not to mention that not every veterinarian actually works with animals (research, government, FDA, etc).
Again, I still think the interpersonal relationships doctors have with human patients is much different, but interpersonal relationships exist in veterinary medicine and can easily make a vet a bad vet or a good vet. I would also say that communication skills and the ability to have good interpersonal relationships are among the top of characteristics a veterinarian needs to have.