Possibly Converting DVM to MD

[MysteryCat]

Hi all!

I'm a pre-veterinary student currently, majoring in neuroscience. I am also considering making the switch to pre-med. Mostly for the job outlook and financial reasons, however other factors play into the decision. Right now the veterinary field is completely saturated and a battlefield for new grads. The debt to salary ratio is insane, and funding for research is not typically great. I don't want any career "for the money", but I do want to be able to pay the bills after 8+ years of school, and I want to work in medicine.

The thing that's got me the most nervous is shadowing hours. I have thousands of hours of working experience in the veterinary industry, but minimal shadowing hours in human medicine. What is an average hour count for successful applicants? It's typically very high for DVM applicants, so I'm anxious to make sure that I have the time before applying to gain valuable experience.

I have a lot of further research to do before I make a desicion, but any helpful information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

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[The Buff OP]

Hi all!

I'm a pre-veterinary student currently, majoring in neuroscience. I am also considering making the switch to pre-med. Mostly for the job outlook and financial reasons, however other factors play into the decision. Right now the veterinary field is completely saturated and a battlefield for new grads. The debt to salary ratio is insane, and funding for research is not typically great. I don't want any career "for the money", but I do want to be able to pay the bills after 8+ years of school, and I want to work in medicine.

The thing that's got me the most nervous is shadowing hours. I have thousands of hours of working experience in the veterinary industry, but minimal shadowing hours in human medicine. What is an average hour count for successful applicants? It's typically very high for DVM applicants, so I'm anxious to make sure that I have the time before applying to gain valuable experience.

I have a lot of further research to do before I make a desicion, but any helpful information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

DO NOT switch over to medicine because you want a nice paycheck. Most likely you want to work with animals instead of Homo sapiens. With all those pre-vet Ec's you have they will outweigh your pre-med Ec's and your application cycle will not go so well. A member on here goes by Spinach (sorry, brah) he has a 40 MCAT and he got denied on his first cycle because most of his application looks like someone wanted to become a veterinarian and not really a medical doctor. If you go DVM and specialize will your salary go up?

 

[helpmee]

I think you'll need a lot more than the "average premed" has in terms of clinical hours. You really need to show that you want to be a doctor

 

[MysteryCat]

I can see what you're getting at, and I am concerned about the same things. If I specialize, which I would plan to do, my salary would go up slightly but the job outlook does not. I'm not looking for a fat paycheck, just job security and less crippling debt. I have a family already, and I'm sure most can understand the need to have some assurance of a sufficient income. Suicide rates in veterinarians are terrifyingly high. It's actually being addressed by the avma, and is likely due to financial trouble in many cases.

And it's really not only the finances. I've gotten further into pre-requisite courses and I'm finding points of interest in virology and public health. I could go DVM/MPH, but that doesn't solve the job outlook problem really.

I think it's just a scary field to go into right now, regardless.

 

[The Buff OP]

I can see what you're getting at, and I am concerned about the same things. If I specialize, which I would plan to do, my salary would go up slightly but the job outlook does not. I'm not looking for a fat paycheck, just job security and less crippling debt. I have a family already, and I'm sure most can understand the need to have some assurance of a sufficient income. Suicide rates in veterinarians are terrifyingly high. It's actually being addressed by the avma, and is likely due to financial trouble in many cases.

And it's really not only the finances. I've gotten further into pre-requisite courses and I'm finding points of interest in virology and public health. I could go DVM/MPH, but that doesn't solve the job outlook problem really.

I think it's just a scary field to go into right now, regardless.

Work with large animals and move to Texas? Where I live there is like about 4-5 veterinary clinics in a 5-10 mile radius, but each of them offer a different service. That's one thing I don't get about suicides in doctors and other healthcare professionals. What makes them so sad? I can understand a surgeon losing several patients and blaming themselves for a while for their patients death. Don't worry about your income not being high enough and then getting depressed about it. I have a tough life right now, but I have a purpose to live and I keep going. As a kid I use to live in poverty in Mexico, I doubt making less than 80k a year would make want to suicide. lol

 

[MysteryCat]

Well, a 38k/year salary with 250k in debt isn't the same as just making less than 80k a year. It's overwhelming. And, as someone who probably isn't involved in the veterinary medicine you have to understand that in vet med there is no safety net for patients. It takes a toll watching people euthanize their pets because they can't afford a $2500 life-saving surgery. So that's a big factor as well.

 

[The Buff OP]

Well, a 38k/year salary with 250k in debt isn't the same as just making less than 80k a year. It's overwhelming. And, as someone who probably isn't involved in the veterinary medicine you have to understand that in vet med there is no safety net for patients. It takes a toll watching people euthanize their pets because they can't afford a $2500 life-saving surgery. So that's a big factor as well.

**** 38k? Well, an MBA from a top graduate school can get you a good salary. #Petco'sfutureCEO

 

[MysteryCat]

Yeah, it's really very bleak. I'm not looking for a fortune. Just want a house someday. It would be great if I could earn one working in medicine. Corporate career options make me cringe. I know there's always a business aspect, but I'm just a science geek. Not particularly great with finances or business transactions.

ETA: 38k is a starting wage, and consistent with my area.

 

[The Buff OP]

Yeah, it's really very bleak. I'm not looking for a fortune. Just want a house someday. It would be great if I could earn one working in medicine. Corporate career options make me cringe. I know there's always a business aspect, but I'm just a science geek. Not particularly great with finances or business transactions.

Well you will figure it out, but entering medicine just for job security and with your background is going to be hard.

 

[Plecopotamus]

DO NOT switch over to medicine because you want a nice paycheck. Most likely you want to work with animals instead of Homo sapiens. With all those pre-vet Ec's you have they will outweigh your pre-med Ec's and your application cycle will not go so well. A member on here goes by Spinach (sorry, brah) he has a 40 MCAT and he got denied on his first cycle because most of his application looks like someone wanted to become a veterinarian and not really a medical doctor. If you go DVM and specialize will your salary go up?

Plenty of people switch and are successful. The difference between them and those who have been unsuccessful in spite of good stats is that after deciding to change from pre-vet, the successful ones do the same (human) clinical ECs that every other pre-med has to do and don't think their MCAT and hours working with animals absolve them of lowly clinical volunteer work necessary to prove they enjoy helping sick people. If I can overcome thousands of hours working with soil samples and wastewater, certainly an undergrad can credibly convince people s/he is more interested in helping humans than critters.

That said, OP, I don't recommend this path if running away from veterinary medicine is your greatest motivation -- it's way too long and hard a road to be sustained by that. There are easier ways to be relatively financially stable if you're going to feel like you're giving up your dream anyhow. Or was medicine always an interest? For many people vet vs med school is not an easy choice . . . would med school be on the table for you if there weren't such a pay difference? Why are you uniquely attracted to veterinary medicine more than human medicine?

Well, a 38k/year salary with 250k in debt isn't the same as just making less than 80k a year. It's overwhelming. And, as someone who probably isn't involved in the veterinary medicine you have to understand that in vet med there is no safety net for patients. It takes a toll watching people euthanize their pets because they can't afford a $2500 life-saving surgery. So that's a big factor as well.

This. My friends who are vets end up feeling so terrible for that family that can't afford the surgery that they end up just doing it without getting full compensation -- a sliding scale is the best scenario, but too often they end up comping all the supplies and drugs out of their own pockets. They also end up with animals abandoned on the doorstep or never picked up after costly care. Unfortunately heartstrings overwhelm the pocketbook pretty easily.

 

[MysteryCat]

It would be on the table, it's always been an interest. Of course there are similarities and differences in the two fields, but I'm starting to feel like it may be beneficial to my family and myself to go the human medicine (I specify because veterinary medicine IS medicine, and it sort of irks me when people use such a broad term to differentiate the two) so that we can live without crippling debt. I would rather work with animals, if it were as simple as that, but there are so many huge downfalls to vet med. I worked as an ER tech for a year and I can't count the number of times I was yelled at or my doctor was yelled/snapped at for being in it for the money. Usually just because someone couldn't pay their bill. Veterinarians don't receive near the respect that they should. In general, anyway. I had a classmate ask what my focus was a while back. I told her veterinary medicine. She asked if I could get my degree online.

Money and respect for what I do isn't as important to me as loving what I do and feeling fulfilled, but when my interests lie down either path, it's a hard choice.

 

[Plecopotamus]

It would be on the table, it's always been an interest. Of course there are similarities and differences in the two fields, but I'm starting to feel like it may be beneficial to my family and myself to go the human medicine (I specify because veterinary medicine IS medicine, and it sort of irks me when people use such a broad term to differentiate the two) so that we can live without crippling debt. I would rather work with animals, if it were as simple as that, but there are so many huge downfalls to vet med. I worked as an ER tech for a year and I can't count the number of times I was yelled at or my doctor was yelled/snapped at for being in it for the money. Usually just because someone couldn't pay their bill. Veterinarians don't receive near the respect that they should. In general, anyway. I had a classmate ask what my focus was a while back. I told her veterinary medicine. She asked if I could get my degree online.

Money and respect for what I do isn't as important to me as loving what I do and feeling fulfilled, but when my interests lie down either path, it's a hard choice.

Aside from what you dislike about veterinary medicine, what do you like about human medicine other than the financial security it offers?

 

[MysteryCat]

I appreciate the wider variety of opportunities in virology and epidemiology, mostly. That's a main interest of mine at this point. Either field offers the opportunity to help people, which is what I want to do, but that's different than helping to enhance the quality of life for huge populations.

 

[Law2Doc]

Job security is a really foolish reason to go into medicine. Its too hard, takes too many years, requires too many hours, too many life compromises unless you actually enjoy it. Working 60-80 hours a week at a job you don't like for the steady paycheck is a decision made by people with no choices in life. If you are the stockboy at walmart or pumping gas you can understandably live for the weekends. But as a professional, you will be working many weekends and evenings. You will spend most of your awake life at your job. Life is too short to just make it about a steady paycheck. You have choices - nobody is forcing you into a job due to lack of ability or a diploma. Do what you enjoy and your job wont be such a prison sentence.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

@MysteryCat....Your reason(s) for switching to medicine is a legitimate one. Stop trying to explain yourself to strangers on SDN. I was shocked when I learned 75-80k/year is a good salary for a veterinarian since vet schools are as expensive as medical schools. My advice to you is to shadow a couple of physicians so you can see if it is something you want to do for the rest of your life.

 

[el_duderino]

Crank out a lot of human clinical hours and shadow several physicians. Your animal ECs will stand out, but Spinach's problem is that he has essentially NO human ECs and refuses to go through the "charade" of volunteering at a hospital. Good grades, good MCAT, and a bunch of clinical hours and you'll be set.

 

[IonClaws]

Work with large animals and move to Texas? Where I live there is like about 4-5 veterinary clinics in a 5-10 mile radius, but each of them offer a different service. That's one thing I don't get about suicides in doctors and other healthcare professionals. What makes them so sad? I can understand a surgeon losing several patients and blaming themselves for a while for their patients death. Don't worry about your income not being high enough and then getting depressed about it. I have a tough life right now, but I have a purpose to live and I keep going. As a kid I use to live in poverty in Mexico, I doubt making less than 80k a year would make want to suicide. lol

I guess you're just ignoring how OP said twice that the job market for vets sucks. What about that do you not understand?

Oh, I don't know, maybe they're suicidal because, as OP said, the job market sucks and the debt to income ratio is exceptionally high after many, many years of schooling? I don't see why that is difficult to understand.

Do you have a family to support? Do you have years of schooling behind you that you may have nothing to show for? I noticed that your status is "non-student" so I'm not sure why you think you could have insight into vets' lives who have been students for about 20 years.

**** 38k? Well, an MBA from a top graduate school can get you a good salary. #Petco'sfutureCEO

And you think that OP, with a family to support:

1. Can afford to go more into debt for a top graduate school,

2. Can get into a top graduate school,

3. Is completely in a position to become the CEO at Petco from this,

why...?

Job security is a really foolish reason to go into medicine. Its too hard, takes too many years, requires too many hours, too many life compromises unless you actually enjoy it. Working 60-80 hours a week at a job you don't like for the steady paycheck is a decision made by people with no choices in life. If you are the stockboy at walmart or pumping gas you can understandably live for the weekends. But as a professional, you will be working many weekends and evenings. You will spend most of your awake life at your job. Life is too short to just make it about a steady paycheck. You have choices - nobody is forcing you into a job due to lack of ability or a diploma. Do what you enjoy and your job wont be such a prison sentence.

This is bullsh*t.
First of all, you cannot live on the wages that a Walmart or gas station worker makes.
Second, medicine is one of the most reliable jobs that can provide good money virtually anywhere in the U.S. Almost no degree can do that.

Third, 50% of medical school graduates this year matched into their first choice. In what job market do half of graduates get to work at their top choice? In all this comment is very naive and shows that you either aren't experienced with the need for job security or for some reason aren't connected to it.

Anyway OP, rack up clinical hours in human medicine like others have said. Not sure how much is necessary to really show your commitment but I'm sure that you must do it.

 

[deanthedream17]

Keep in Mind, that veterinary school is quite a bit easier to get into regardless of what people will tell you. This is largely due to the reasons you named. My gf got in this year with 3.0 GPA, worse science GPA, and low GRE while I am on the waitlist for MD schools with a very high gpa, and competitive MCATs. Not as many prereqs for premed but excellence throughout is expected while prevet allows for a decent amount of screw ups

 

[kk123]

Hi all!

I'm a pre-veterinary student currently, majoring in neuroscience. I am also considering making the switch to pre-med. Mostly for the job outlook and financial reasons, however other factors play into the decision. Right now the veterinary field is completely saturated and a battlefield for new grads. The debt to salary ratio is insane, and funding for research is not typically great. I don't want any career "for the money", but I do want to be able to pay the bills after 8+ years of school, and I want to work in medicine.

The thing that's got me the most nervous is shadowing hours. I have thousands of hours of working experience in the veterinary industry, but minimal shadowing hours in human medicine. What is an average hour count for successful applicants? It's typically very high for DVM applicants, so I'm anxious to make sure that I have the time before applying to gain valuable experience.

I have a lot of further research to do before I make a desicion, but any helpful information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

OP, you are correct in that it is very hard for new DVM grads to find a job. I know someone who is on the American Veterinary Association Board and he was talking about the lack of jobs for new grads the other day. I also knew a DVM grad who it took a couple of years to finally get a full time job. Thus, I can understand your concerns.

You said you have minimal shadowing hours in human medicine. As long as you are convinced from your time in medicine that you can deal with having humans as patients, and you actually want to help people (not doing it 100% for the money), going into human medicine sounds like a logical choice.

 

[Cinabonchik]

To answer your question: What is an average hour count for successful applicants?
I had 300-400 volunteer hours and ~300 shadowing hours.

GL

 

[Kochanie]

To answer your question: What is an average hour count for successful applicants?
I had 300-400 volunteer hours and ~300 shadowing hours.

GL

300 shadowing? :X

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Job security is a really foolish reason to go into medicine. Its too hard, takes too many years, requires too many hours, too many life compromises unless you actually enjoy it. Working 60-80 hours a week at a job you don't like for the steady paycheck is a decision made by people with no choices in life.

Agreed, there are much less painful ways to secure a stable income. Off the top of my head:

PA
NP
Engineer

 

[The Buff OP]

Plenty of people switch and are successful. The difference between them and those who have been unsuccessful in spite of good stats is that after deciding to change from pre-vet, the successful ones do the same (human) clinical ECs that every other pre-med has to do and don't think their MCAT and hours working with animals absolve them of lowly clinical volunteer work necessary to prove they enjoy helping sick people. If I can overcome thousands of hours working with soil samples and wastewater, certainly an undergrad can credibly convince people s/he is more interested in helping humans than critters.

What I meant is some people can't be successful if they choose to go to the medicine side because their real motivation is working with animals and they won't really put any work into getting human related Ec's. However, some pre-vet people do end up changing career paths and go into medicine successfully because they go 100% on getting human related Ec's and other stuff typical pre-meds would do.

lol give me a break most of this stuff I typed it when I was really sleepy around 3AM.

 

[Muffinho]

Agreed, there are much less painful ways to secure a stable income. Off the top of my head:

PA
NP
Engineer

Of course, it isn't always feasible for someone to move into an Engineering program after 2-4 years in the life sciences.

 

[Goro]

100% agree with my young colleague. OP, the avg med school applicant has ~50-100 hrs shadowing, >100 hrs clinical volunteering, and >100 hrs non-clinical volunteering. To show adcoms you mean business, consider yourself as having 0 in all three categories.

If you're interested in virology etc, get a PhD.

Plenty of people switch and are successful. The difference between them and those who have been unsuccessful in spite of good stats is that after deciding to change from pre-vet, the successful ones do the same (human) clinical ECs that every other pre-med has to do and don't think their MCAT and hours working with animals absolve them of lowly clinical volunteer work necessary to prove they enjoy helping sick people. If I can overcome thousands of hours working with soil samples and wastewater, certainly an undergrad can credibly convince people s/he is more interested in helping humans than critters.

That said, OP, I don't recommend this path if running away from veterinary medicine is your greatest motivation -- it's way too long and hard a road to be sustained by that. There are easier ways to be relatively financially stable if you're going to feel like you're giving up your dream anyhow. Or was medicine always an interest? For many people vet vs med school is not an easy choice . . . would med school be on the table for you if there weren't such a pay difference? Why are you uniquely attracted to veterinary medicine more than human medicine?

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Of course, it isn't always feasible for someone to move into an Engineering program after 2-4 years in the life sciences.

There were two other options if you want feasibility for this particular OP. The third was to make the larger point that there are stable careers/paychecks with much less pain involved.

 

[The Buff OP]

I guess you're just ignoring how OP said twice that the job market for vets sucks. What about that do you not understand?

Oh, I don't know, maybe they're suicidal because, as OP said, the job market sucks and the debt to income ratio is exceptionally high after many, many years of schooling? I don't see why that is difficult to understand.

Do you have a family to support? Do you have years of schooling behind you that you may have nothing to show for? I noticed that your status is "non-student" so I'm not sure why you think you could have insight into vets' lives who have been students for about 20 years.



And you think that OP, with a family to support:

1. Can afford to go more into debt for a top graduate school,

2. Can get into a top graduate school,

3. Is completely in a position to become the CEO at Petco from this,

why...?


This is bullsh*t.
First of all, you cannot live on the wages that a Walmart or gas station worker makes.
Second, medicine is one of the most reliable jobs that can provide good money virtually anywhere in the U.S. Almost no degree can do that.

Third, 50% of medical school graduates this year matched into their first choice. In what job market do half of graduates get to work at their top choice? In all this comment is very naive and shows that you either aren't experienced with the need for job security or for some reason aren't connected to it.

Anyway OP, rack up clinical hours in human medicine like others have said. Not sure how much is necessary to really show your commitment but I'm sure that you must do it.

Huh, must be that Florida weather getting to your head. Disrespecting a physician and not seeing that I was just giving OP an option for higher salary, plus missing the point where we talked about her situation (XX).

 

[The Buff OP]

I appreciate the wider variety of opportunities in virology and epidemiology, mostly. That's a main interest of mine at this point. Either field offers the opportunity to help people, which is what I want to do, but that's different than helping to enhance the quality of life for huge populations.

Sounds like you want to go for the MPH route. OP shadow some doctors to get a feel of medicine and if you find out that you actually have more reasons to become a doctor to help people other than for job security, then bust out pre-med Ec's and take the MCAT. Are you willing to relocate to another part of the U.S. that has a more job opportunities for a vet?

 

[MysteryCat]

Keep in Mind, that veterinary school is quite a bit easier to get into regardless of what people will tell you. This is largely due to the reasons you named. My gf got in this year with 3.0 GPA, worse science GPA, and low GRE while I am on the waitlist for MD schools with a very high gpa, and competitive MCATs. Not as many prereqs for premed but excellence throughout is expected while prevet allows for a decent amount of screw ups

Well. This is statistically the opposite of the truth. There are many factors that go into why someone gets in to either program vs. Why someone does not, buy veterinary schools admit less applicants than MD schools, percentage wise.

 

[deanthedream17]

Well. This is statistically the opposite of the truth. There are many factors that go into why someone gets in to either program vs. Why someone does not, buy veterinary schools admit less applicants than MD schools, percentage wise.

I don't think so. If you look at the individual schools, the avg GPA for vet school is not very impressive. Also with the glut of current veterinarians and the recent opening of two new vet schools it seems like it is becoming more who can pay rather than who is qualified.

 

[Kochanie]

Well. This is statistically the opposite of the truth. There are many factors that go into why someone gets in to either program vs. Why someone does not, buy veterinary schools admit less applicants than MD schools, percentage wise.

But what is the quality of that pool? Same thing as saying a class only gives 10% As, how hard are the other students working?

 

[MysteryCat]

I don't think so. If you look at the individual schools, the avg GPA for vet school is not very impressive. Also with the glut of current veterinarians and the recent opening of two new vet schools it seems like it is becoming more who can pay rather than who is qualified.

Lol. That's funny. I know plenty of people who, with near-4.0 GPA, good GRE and ec, recs, etc who have taken 2-3 application cycles to get in. And it makes sense. As far as curriculum goes, in medical school you may be learning about physiology, anatomy, pathology, diagnostics, etc etc etc, for one species. Vet med? National boards include the above for 6. So yeah, they like to take under qualified baffoons who couldn't hack it as MDs.
Edit: if you hadn't thrown the ridiculous idea that anyone can get in if they can pay in there, I wouldn't have ever mentioned that. I have great respect for both fields and wish that someone else in medicine would too.

 

[MysteryCat]

But what is the quality of that pool? Same thing as saying a class only gives 10% As, how hard are the other students working?

The applicants I've know to take multiple app cycles have been excellent, motivated students.

 

[deanthedream17]

Lol. That's funny. I know plenty of people who, with near-4.0 GPA, good GRE and ec, recs, etc who have taken 2-3 application cycles to get in. And it makes sense. As far as curriculum goes, in medical school you may be learning about physiology, anatomy, pathology, diagnostics, etc etc etc, for one species. Vet med? National boards include the above for 6. So yeah, they like to take under qualified baffoons who couldn't hack it as MDs.
Edit: if you hadn't thrown the ridiculous idea that anyone can get in if they can pay in there, I wouldn't have ever mentioned that. I have great respect for both fields and wish that someone else in medicine would too.

There is a good chance that it is because the college that I attended is a feeder school for veterinary school. About 8 people got into upenn and 7 into cornell this year alone with quite a bit sparkled all across the map. Only one girl didn't get in initially (she was waitlisted to Oklahoma st. but ended up getting in soon after)

 

[MysteryCat]

There is a good chance that it is because the college that I attended is a feeder school for veterinary school. About 8 people got into upenn and 7 into cornell this year alone with quite a bit sparkled all across the map. Only one girl didn't get in initially (she was waitlisted to Oklahoma st. but ended up getting in soon after)

That does make a difference. It's why I transfered across the state for my neuro degree when I could have gotten it in my home town.

 

[deanthedream17]

That does make a difference. It's why I transfered across the state for my neuro degree when I could have gotten it in my home town.

I attended college instate and it is a state w/o a vet school or contract seats so the instate preference argument really can't be made

 

[m1021]

I was exactly in your position, so here's my two cents!

I switched over my junior year of college, after I had about 500 hours of veterinary shadowing. I stayed with an Animal Science degree the entire time though. I ended up taking a gap year to prepare for MCAT and get some human shadowing. Overall, most of my interviews consisted of really positive things with my shadowing. Most people were just impressed that I had so many hours and that veterinary medicine actually requires them. I DID have to explain myself to every interviewer why I didn't want to be a vet and actually wanted to be a doctor. I would be prepared and know that this is what you want to do. Most people just liked the fact that I spent so much time committing to vet med that they overlooked the fact I only had about 200 hours in human volunteer/shadowing.

 

[MysteryCat]

I attended college instate and it is a state w/o a vet school or contract seats so the instate preference argument really can't be made

If you attended a college without a vet school nearby there's no way that it was a "feeder" school for vet schools. It's very very hard to get in as a oos student.

 

[deanthedream17]

If you attended a college without a vet school nearby there's no way that it was a "feeder" school for vet schools. It's very very hard to get in as a oos student.

Yes it can. My school is very strong academically and the professors have strong connections with vet schools across the nation. There are former veterinary school professors on staff. Look you can think about my school how you want, but my gf was the president of the pre-vet club this year and she collected the statistics for who applied and who got accepted and it was 100% acceptance rate. Each year the number ranges from about 80-100.

 

[MysteryCat]

I was exactly in your position, so here's my two cents!

I switched over my junior year of college, after I had about 500 hours of veterinary shadowing. I stayed with an Animal Science degree the entire time though. I ended up taking a gap year to prepare for MCAT and get some human shadowing. Overall, most of my interviews consisted of really positive things with my shadowing. Most people were just impressed that I had so many hours and that veterinary medicine actually requires them. I DID have to explain myself to every interviewer why I didn't want to be a vet and actually wanted to be a doctor. I would be prepared and know that this is what you want to do. Most people just liked the fact that I spent so much time committing to vet med that they overlooked the fact I only had about 200 hours in human volunteer/shadowing.

Thanks for the hope! I'm still not sure and I expected to be semi-flamed on this board. I suppose it all comes down to how you present yourself. I'm a good student, and I have a lot of hours in my current field. No reason I can't apply that to a slightly different field. I'm not sure why people are suggestion me getting an MBA or becoming an engineer when I explicitly stated my desire to be a physician (to whatever species.) Haha.

Anyhow, thank you for sharing your experience.

 

[MysteryCat]

Yes it can. My school is very strong academically and the professors have strong connections with vet schools across the nation. There are former veterinary school professors on staff. Look you can think about my school how you want, but my gf was the president of the pre-vet club this year and she collected the statistics for who applied and who got accepted and it was 100% acceptance rate. Each year the number ranges from about 80-100.

You are being thick, pardon me saying it. I'm not concerned about getting in, or which is harder. I don't intend on having minimal stats for admission to either. Just being good enough isn't really what I'm getting at. It's supporting my family. Difficult with a DVM these days. If you want to come here to argue, don't do it with me. I came here for supportive advice, not an argument.

 

[Nave]

This, OP going into medicine because of job stability and money is perfectly fine.

This is bullsh*t.
First of all, you cannot live on the wages that a Walmart or gas station worker makes.
Second, medicine is one of the most reliable jobs that can provide good money virtually anywhere in the U.S. Almost no degree can do that.

Third, 50% of medical school graduates this year matched into their first choice. In what job market do half of graduates get to work at their top choice? In all this comment is very naive and shows that you either aren't experienced with the need for job security or for some reason aren't connected to it.

Anyway OP, rack up clinical hours in human medicine like others have said. Not sure how much is necessary to really show your commitment but I'm sure that you must do it.

 

[gettheleadout]

And you think that OP, with a family to support:

1. Can afford to go more into debt for a top graduate school,

2. Can get into a top graduate school,

3. Is completely in a position to become the CEO at Petco from this,

why...?

Pretty sure Mr. O was kidding.

This is bullsh*t.
First of all, you cannot live on the wages that a Walmart or gas station worker makes.
Second, medicine is one of the most reliable jobs that can provide good money virtually anywhere in the U.S. Almost no degree can do that.

Third, 50% of medical school graduates this year matched into their first choice. In what job market do half of graduates get to work at their top choice? In all this comment is very naive and shows that you either aren't experienced with the need for job security or for some reason aren't connected to it.

What is self-selection bias?

 

[BestDoctorEver]

This, OP going into medicine because of job stability and money is perfectly fine.

I don't understand why some people in SDN can't get that...

 

[Being]

This, OP going into medicine because of job stability and money is perfectly fine.

I wonder how competitive medical school admissions would be if median physician starting salary was 45k?

 

[Plecopotamus]

I appreciate the wider variety of opportunities in virology and epidemiology, mostly. That's a main interest of mine at this point. Either field offers the opportunity to help people, which is what I want to do, but that's different than helping to enhance the quality of life for huge populations.

This isn't exactly the answer I was expecting from someone asking if he/she should become a physician. It may be that you didn't realize what I was trying to get at or the late hour at which you answered, but I was surprised that there's no discussion of loving diagnostic process or problem solving or physiology or passion for helping individuals or any of that idealistic stuff that usually motivates pre-meds. You sound interested in population-based health, but you're talking about getting a degree that endorses your clinical training. From what you're saying here, I wonder if that's a tangential path to where you're actually hoping to go with your career. Have you considered a graduate degree in epidemiology rather than a DVM/MD?

 

[rzoo14]

Keep in Mind, that veterinary school is quite a bit easier to get into regardless of what people will tell you. This is largely due to the reasons you named. My gf got in this year with 3.0 GPA, worse science GPA, and low GRE while I am on the waitlist for MD schools with a very high gpa, and competitive MCATs. Not as many prereqs for premed but excellence throughout is expected while prevet allows for a decent amount of screw ups

MCAT. No s. Sorry, had to.

OP, you have solid advice here. Volunteer and shadow to see if this is something you really want.

 

[Law2Doc]

This is bullsh*t.
First of all, you cannot live on the wages that a Walmart or gas station worker makes.
Second, medicine is one of the most reliable jobs that can provide good money virtually anywhere in the U.S. Almost no degree can do that.

Third, 50% of medical school graduates this year matched into their first choice. In what job market do half of graduates get to work at their top choice? In all this comment is very naive and shows that you either aren't experienced with the need for job security or for some reason aren't connected to it.

Anyway OP, rack up clinical hours in human medicine like others have said. Not sure how much is necessary to really show your commitment but I'm sure that you must do it.

Um, I think you are way way way off base.
First, my point with the Walmart employee is not that the OP should become one, but was giving an example of someone who didn't have choices in life. The OP does.
Second, the goal isn't a reliable job with good money. The goal is a job you will enjoy, because you are going to spend most of your life doing it. Life shouldnt be a prison where you bide your time. Career changers who have worked before tend to have more insight on this perhaps.
Third, matching into ones first choice is irrelevant here -- the OPs first choice is being a vet. But even so, I think you have to realize that people's first choices are largely selected based on reality --ie you pick what is still possible based on your step 1 scores, etc. If you aren't at the top of your class you aren't going to be applying for derm or plastics, even if you started med school thinking that would be the dream. No med school advisor lets you apply far out of your league, so you are basically steered to what your first choice can be. The guy at the bottom of the class might have only a couple avenues to select from as his "first choice". If you are really a "med student" you should know this.
I think you shouldn't be quick to suggest who is being "naive" here. Some of us have been around the block and are far beyond these match statistics (which you clearly don't comprehend.) good luck with that.

 

[Law2Doc]

I wonder how competitive medical school admissions would be if median physician starting salary was 45k?

It is. It's called intern year.

 

[deanthedream17]

MCAT. No s. Sorry, had to.

OP, you have solid advice here. Volunteer and shadow to see if this is something you really want.

dude your dumb. I took it twice had 2 competitive scores