Post Bacc?

[AnesthesiaMD]

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Are post-bacc programs only for students who haven't done so hot in undergrad? I didn't do so hot in the beginning which is causing me to delay my application a year. I'll have a 3.50 and 3.46 BCPM, should I consider a post-bacc or wait on my MCAT score?

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Are post-bacc programs for only for students who haven't done so hot in undergrad? I didn't do so hot in the beginning which is causing me to delay my application a year. I'll have a 3.50 and 3.46 BCPM, should I consider a post-bacc or wait on my MCAT score?

I'd wait on the MCAT score. Your GPA is okay with a slightly higher than average MCAT.

Informal Post-Bacc, where you just goto your university and get a second degree (not actually get it, but pursue it) is for people like you who have slightly below average stats.

Formal Post-Bacc programs where you go for a year or two, take medical school classes, and pay tens of thousands of dollars: those are for people with sub 3.0 GPA's and very low MCAT scores (like sub 24).

 

[Renovatio]

I agree with above. I would definitely think about taking some informal post-bacc classes. I would definitely re-take any pre-med or basic science classes you got C's in (general biology, general chemistry, organic chemistry, physiology, metabolic biochemistry, genetics, etc.). In fact, if you have C's in those classes, I would start working on retaking them right away.

 

[jochi1543]

I'm in a similar boat to yours, cumulative 3.52, BCPM 3.35. I got a 32T on the MCAT. I'm going into an informal post-bacc full-time this fall - I was gonna have to take 4 pre-req courses anyway, but now I'm just gonna suck it up and do 10 to prepare for possible reapplication next year. It's always best to plan ahead. While you have a perfectly good chance of getting in with this GPA, you also have a perfectly good chance of NOT getting in. So I'd personally suggest the informal post-bacc route just so that you don't suddenly find yourself empty-handed next May and with an application that has not been improved one bit.

 

[rpm]

It also depends on how many credits you have taken already. If you have say more than 120 credits, even getting all A's in four or five post-bacc classes won't increase your GPA by much. I would wait until you get your MCAT score back and then look at the stats to the schools you are applying to. If you get in the low 30's you may get into some med schools but theres no guarantee. With below a 30 MCAT, you have a very slim chance unless you go the D.O. route or to the carrib. If you def. want to get a M.D. in the US, then a SMP program may be a good idea.

 

[AnesthesiaMD]

I agree with above. I would definitely think about taking some informal post-bacc classes. I would definitely re-take any pre-med or basic science classes you got C's in (general biology, general chemistry, organic chemistry, physiology, metabolic biochemistry, genetics, etc.). In fact, if you have C's in those classes, I would start working on retaking them right away.

Gen Chem I - F (first time)
Gen Chem I - A
Lab - A
Gen Chem II - B
Lab - A
Orgo I - CB (2.5/4.0)
Lab - A
Orgo II - B
Lab - A
Intro. Biochem - A
Molecular and Cell Bio - C (same semester as my failed chem I; bad semester all around)
Genetics - BA (3.5/4.0)
Human Physiology (for majors) - A

all my other upper division courses in biology have been A's just the one C in the first class (molecular and cell) and the BA in Genetics. Which ones should I retake?

 

[AnesthesiaMD]

It also depends on how many credits you have taken already. If you have say more than 120 credits, even getting all A's in four or five post-bacc classes won't increase your GPA by much. I would wait until you get your MCAT score back and then look at the stats to the schools you are applying to. If you get in the low 30's you may get into some med schools but theres no guarantee. With below a 30 MCAT, you have a very slim chance unless you go the D.O. route or to the carrib. If you def. want to get a M.D. in the US, then a SMP program may be a good idea.

Don't worry, I won't be getting anything less than a 33 on my MCAT. I fully intend to study for 2 months every day prior to the exam.

 

[glamqueen]

I'm getting a second undergrad, and since I have already taken about 130 credits or so, it would take 120 more hours to raise my 3.56 to a 3.7. Please consider this when you think about how much a post-bacc can help you. I hope to get nearly all A's in everything I have left, and I will barely barely barely be able to have over a 3.6. It's ridiculous how little this changes my GPA, because it's already a 3.56.

Please keep this in mind, because honestly - if the OP has already taken all the requirements for med school (I hadn't, so that's why I'm in school again) - you might be better off just studying really really hard for the MCAT and rocking that out.

Retaking classes you have in C's are only worthwhile if it really will affect your GPA. Plus, if you are retaking a weed-out class - is it really going to be worth all the trouble if you end up with a B? Probably not...

 

[glamqueen]

Oh, and if you want to figure out how much your GPA will be altered...google "GPA Calculator" on the internet. There are a ton of them, and it might be helpful in figuring out if it is worth it to you.

 

[AnesthesiaMD]

Oh, and if you want to figure out how much your GPA will be altered...google "GPA Calculator" on the internet. There are a ton of them, and it might be helpful in figuring out if it is worth it to you.

I've made an excel spreadsheet for this purpose and with all As in everything from here on out, I will have a 3.50 GPA with a 3.46 BCPM. All As isn't as insane as it sounds as I don't have any more chemistry to get through just neurobiology and maybe biology of cancer will be the toughest but I can pull A's in them.

 

[AnesthesiaMD]

It also depends on how many credits you have taken already. If you have say more than 120 credits, even getting all A's in four or five post-bacc classes won't increase your GPA by much. I would wait until you get your MCAT score back and then look at the stats to the schools you are applying to. If you get in the low 30's you may get into some med schools but theres no guarantee. With below a 30 MCAT, you have a very slim chance unless you go the D.O. route or to the carrib. If you def. want to get a M.D. in the US, then a SMP program may be a good idea.

Plus, numbers are NOT everything.

 

[crazydiamond]

Not to hijack this thread, but I have a question on this topic. . .

Would it be worthwhile to take more heavy science classes to raise my BCPM GPA? Right now my overall is 3.45 but my BCPM is only 3.2. My overall isn't stellar, I know, but I have 130 credits so it isn't likely to change much at all. But the BCPM -- that could come up a bit with several As in upper-division science classes.

Or should I just prepare to do really well on the MCAT? I haven't taken it yet. . .and I'm planning on taking it in January so I have plenty of study time.

 

[blues91776]

I'd wait on the MCAT score. Your GPA is okay with a slightly higher than average MCAT.

Informal Post-Bacc, where you just goto your university and get a second degree (not actually get it, but pursue it) is for people like you who have slightly below average stats.

Formal Post-Bacc programs where you go for a year or two, take medical school classes, and pay tens of thousands of dollars: those are for people with sub 3.0 GPA's and very low MCAT scores (like sub 24).

so is "formal post-bacc" = SMP? Or should people in the former group like me that has a 3.48 GPA go to an SMP program instead of informal post-bach if I get in?

 

[Law2Doc]

so is "formal post-bacc" = SMP? Or should people in the former group like me that has a 3.48 GPA go to an SMP program instead of informal post-bach if I get in?

No - LifetimeDoc is wrong on his definition of this one. Actually most formal postbacs are most commonly for people with HIGH GPAs who haven't taken the core sciences. Informal or open enrollment ones tend to be for grade rehabilitation. SMP is different than postbac in that it is graduate, so it won't affect your undergrad level GPA. So if you need to get over a screening threshold, you need to do a postbac instead of (or sometimes followed by) a SMP. SMP tends to be done if you have above a 3.0 and just need to show a streak of A's in sciences to prove your abilities. All these things work better for some people than others based on their background -- there is no "one size fits all". (and BTW it's not post-bach -- it's post-bac (short for baccalaureate -- no "h")). There is a board on SDN for postbac/SMP info where you can find out a lot more.

 

[Renovatio]

Gen Chem I - F (first time)
Gen Chem I - A
Lab - A
Gen Chem II - B
Lab - A
Orgo I - CB (2.5/4.0)
Lab - A
Orgo II - B
Lab - A
Intro. Biochem - A
Molecular and Cell Bio - C (same semester as my failed chem I; bad semester all around)
Genetics - BA (3.5/4.0)
Human Physiology (for majors) - A

all my other upper division courses in biology have been A's just the one C in the first class (molecular and cell) and the BA in Genetics. Which ones should I retake?

I would retake the two C's you got in Organic and Mol Cell Bio, for sure. It might not bump your GPA too significantly, but I think it would show you are not satisfied, and are willing to try again (perseverance).

I would definitely try to get both overall and BCPM GPA over 3.5.

 

[AnesthesiaMD]

I would definitely try to get both overall and BCPM GPA over 3.5.

well that's an impossibility matematically with the courses I have left. Does my (projected) upward trend of 3.78/3.73 BCPM over my last 102 credits/80 credits BCPM not mean anything? For Heaven's sake, that's more than 3 years of coursework!

Also, please note I didn't get a C (2.0) I got a 2.5 in Orgo. I, don't you think adcoms would look down on me retaking this course since I already passed it?

 

[Renovatio]

well that's an impossibility matematically with the courses I have left. Does my (projected) upward trend of 3.78/3.73 BCPM over my last 102 credits/80 credits BCPM not mean anything? For Heaven's sake, that's more than 3 years of coursework!

Also, please note I didn't get a C (2.0) I got a 2.5 in Orgo. I, don't you think adcoms would look down on me retaking this course since I already passed it?

It sounds like you're very bright and made some critical mistakes your freshman year. Anyone who would look carefully through your transcript would realize it. But, unfortunately, when a school gets over 10,000 applications, their first instinct is to make a cut based on GPA and MCAT scores. If your GPA is under 3.5, you might not even get looked at (I know many friends with sub-3.5 that didn't even get secondaries from certain schools, despite very good MCAT and huge upward trends). You have to realize that a lot of this is a numbers game.

I understand that you don't have many more classes to take to fulfill graduation or degree requirements, but nobody is locking you out from taking other courses beyond your "list of classes." For example, I'm sure there are plenty more physiological science courses (neurology, developmental biology, anatomy, etc.), biochemistry, or cellular biology courses you could take. If you haven't filed your intent to graduate, you can always take an extra summer or even a fall quarter to take these classes and get your GPA up. Or, you could do a post-bacc.

I'm not saying you won't get in with a sub 3.5, but I believe you will dramatically increase your chances getting it above that natural cut-point.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

No - LifetimeDoc is wrong on his definition of this one. Actually most formal postbacs are most commonly for people with HIGH GPAs who haven't taken the core sciences. Informal or open enrollment ones tend to be for grade rehabilitation. SMP is different than postbac in that it is graduate, so it won't affect your undergrad level GPA. So if you need to get over a screening threshold, you need to do a postbac instead of (or sometimes followed by) a SMP. SMP tends to be done if you have above a 3.0 and just need to show a streak of A's in sciences to prove your abilities. All these things work better for some people than others based on their background -- there is no "one size fits all". (and BTW it's not post-bach -- it's post-bac (short for baccalaureate -- no "h")). There is a board on SDN for postbac/SMP info where you can find out a lot more.

mmmm...I was speaking/listening to REL talk about the Masters Degree in Medical Sciences program at USF for those with low GPA (not 3.5, but around 3.0) and low MCAT scores (like around 20), and they had a program for folks to take the first year of medical school as a way to prove that they can handle medical school despite their low stats that would never have allowed them to attend medical school. He described it as high-risk in that if you didn't pass, you'd forever prove that you could not handle medical school. If you passed, you had a good chance of getting into medical school because you just passed the first year.

If this would be classified as formal post-bacc or special masters program, I thought those were one in the same? 😕

 

[Law2Doc]

mmmm...I was speaking/listening to REL talk about the Masters Degree in Medical Sciences program at USF for those with low GPA (not 3.5, but around 3.0) and low MCAT scores (like around 20), and they had a program for folks to take the first year of medical school as a way to prove that they can handle medical school despite their low stats that would never have allowed them to attend medical school. He described it as high-risk in that if you didn't pass, you'd forever prove that you could not handle medical school. If you passed, you had a good chance of getting into medical school because you just passed the first year.

If this would be classified as formal post-bacc or special masters program, I thought those were one in the same? 😕

No. Formal postbacs are the Bryn Mawr, Goucher, Tufts variety. These are undergraduate level coursework. SMPs are graduate, so something with Masters in the title is likely going to be an SMP. Not the same at all.

 

[DrBubbles]

So, from my experience an informal post-bac or formal post-bac (to finish up pre-reqs) or a special master's program (to raise your GPA, get a Master's degree, and in some cases prove you can excel in courses taken with medical school students) aren't necessarily going to raise your GPA to one competitive at the top 10 schools.

First, schools often consider your undergraduate GPA and your overall GPA, so that undergrad GPA may never change.

More importantly, these programs serve to show an upward trend or high caliber consistency in your coursework performance most recently, and a 3.9 or 4.0 post-undergrad GPA can speak volumes even against a 3.3 undergraduate GPA. It shows you have identified your academic weaknesses and learned how to address them.

Plus, having a Master's degree on your AMCAS (especially if you wait an extra year so you are able to include it on your AMCAS application, instead of providing it as a projected accomplishment) is really beneficial.

So, if your GPA is below a 3.5, and your MCAT is below average for a matriculant, (I believe it was a 31 last year), you might want to consider taking more classes, whether formal or informal. If you're not quite sure or ready to really hunker down and get it down, it might hurt your chances of getting into medical school. But if you're committed to doing well, it can only help.