Post Graduate taking a Community College classes as Pre-requiste

[bjt223]

Hey everyone,

Excuse me if this questions may seems similar, but I have look through past threads, but could not find the answers I want so I was wondering if anyone can help me out.

So I am 27 years old, just graduate with as a Chemistry major. I spend 6 years in community colleges prior to university plus 2 years in university, but overall manage to pull through a 2.5 sGPA and 2.7 cum GPA. I have not taken any MCAT yet, but I am saving for that whenever I am ready.

So my question is if I decide to go back to community college to retake pre-requiste courses, get an A's, and transfer to a state college to hopefully do well in upper division in a different majors earning a second bachelor's. Would that be okay? I will be working full-time as well and CC's classes are mostly flexible with it. Would this look bad on my part?

Thanks.

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[bjt223]

help.

 

[bjt223]

With a GPA that low, your goal should be DO. DO schools don't really care whether its at a CC or not.

Thank you for your help. Just curious, why would DO benefit me than MD? DO school don't do grade replacement anymore so I am assuming everything will be averaging out. Would it be beneficial for me to redo and retake all my classes in community college and state school and earn second bachelor's?

 

[bears1992]

Thank you for your help. Just curious, why would DO benefit me than MD? DO school don't do grade replacement anymore so I am assuming everything will be averaging out. Would it be beneficial for me to redo and retake all my classes in community college and state school and earn second bachelor's?

DO schools have lower maltriculant stats for both GPA and MCAT but most importantly in your case, they are more likely to weigh heavily on your last 2-3 years and put less weight on your first few semesters. They are more willing to overlook a bad GPA if you have a serious upward trend.

To be honest, you are in quiet a hole. You need to hit the 3.0 mark on both cGPA and sGPA to get past the cut off for most schools. Your upward trend would be no good if your app is trashed before anyone can see it. You will absolutely need 2 years of 3.8+ post bacc or SMP. I have heard that there are schools that will overlook a poor undergraduate gpa in favor of a great SMP. The problem with SMPs is they have major grade inflation so you would really need 3.8+ to stand out. With straight As in a 2 year post bacc and a fanstastic MCAT 510+, you may have a shot at the DO schools that use postbac or SMP GPAs in lieu of undergrad GPA. For MD, you would basically need to do another 120 credits of 4.0 science classes and even then it's a bit of a stretch so consider the US MD route closed. The only MD route for you would be the Caribbean but I would only go that route as a last resort. Caribbean schools are HUGE gambles. You have a 45% chance of becoming a physician and 55% chance of flunking out with crippling student debt that will follow you until you die because you can't discharge it in bankruptcy.

So realistically, you can do 2 year postbacc and kill it with a great MCAT, or you can go right now to the Caribbean and flip a coin.

Edit: DO schools do not care if you take courses at CC. Certain MD schools do not accept them but as of now, all DO schools accept CC credits and even online credits.

 

[bjt223]

DO schools have lower maltriculant stats for both GPA and MCAT but most importantly in your case, they are more likely to weigh heavily on your last 2-3 years and put less weight on your first few semesters. They are more willing to overlook a bad GPA if you have a serious upward trend.

To be honest, you are in quiet a hole. You need to hit the 3.0 mark on both cGPA and sGPA to get past the cut off for most schools. Your upward trend would be no good if your app is trashed before anyone can see it. You will absolutely need 2 years of 3.8+ post bacc or SMP. I have heard that there are schools that will overlook a poor undergraduate gpa in favor of a great SMP. The problem with SMPs is they have major grade inflation so you would really need 3.8+ to stand out. With straight As in a 2 year post bacc and a fanstastic MCAT 510+, you may have a shot at the DO schools that use postbac or SMP GPAs in lieu of undergrad GPA. For MD, you would basically need to do another 120 credits of 4.0 science classes and even then it's a bit of a stretch so consider the US MD route closed. The only MD route for you would be the Caribbean but I would only go that route as a last resort. Caribbean schools are HUGE gambles. You have a 45% chance of becoming a physician and 55% chance of flunking out with crippling student debt that will follow you until you die because you can't discharge it in bankruptcy.

So realistically, you can do 2 year postbacc and kill it with a great MCAT, or you can go right now to the Caribbean and flip a coin.

Edit: DO schools do not care if you take courses at CC. Certain MD schools do not accept them but as of now, all DO schools accept CC credits and even online credits.

Yeah, Carribean will be my very last resort. I am not considering that route as of now. For now, I'll just tackle down and retaking classes that I have a C's and lower. Is it in your best suggestion to retake lower division course at CC's in which I have C's on or should I go to state school and take upper division biology class? I understand I am in the hole, but I am very determine to get that chance. Thanks.

 

[backside_attack]

If you have such a low GPA now, what makes you think you can get all A's in post-bacc classes, like you stated was your goal?

I don't mean to kill your dream, but think realistically about your ability to succeed with science courses if if it's been difficult for you in the past.

 

[bears1992]

Yeah, Carribean will be my very last resort. I am not considering that route as of now. For now, I'll just tackle down and retaking classes that I have a C's and lower. Is it in your best suggestion to retake lower division course at CC's in which I have C's on or should I go to state school and take upper division biology class? I understand I am in the hole, but I am very determine to get that chance. Thanks.

With grade replacement a thing of the past, retaking classes is not going to significantly help you like before. Some ADCOMs on here have stated that a reinvented student will need to retake the prereqs and get A's, other ADCOMs have said they weigh a retake the same as a new class. In your case, I would start by retaking the prereqs at a CC with the goal of having all A's in your prereqs. Then start taking upper level Biology courses and getting A's in those as well. A year of retakes at CC and a year of upper level Bio at a state college or university with a 3.9+ GPA would have your app viewed favorably at school that heavily weigh upward trends. PNWU has specifically said that they only consider the last 90 credits. Schools like that would see you as a student who has a mediocre year followed by two phenomenal years which would look better than a student with just 3 good years. Obviously you will need a great MCAT to go with it. Your biggest problem will be schools that auto screen below 3.0 cGPA and sGPA BUT with two years of straight A's in science, you should be above a 3.0 in both.

Some schools really value their matriculate stats and accepting a student with a 3.0 that has a fantastic upward trend would still bring their stats down. Other schools (your target schools) care more about COMLEX pass rates and match rates. Those schools would see you as a competitive student with two years of 3.8+ in medical school relevant coursework and great MCAT scores that would boost their pass rates. Just focus on retaking your prereqs at a CC and see how it goes. If you are consistently getting 3.5 or less, I would look to another field or a Caribbean school if it's worth the risk to you.

 

[Ad2b]

As I said in your other, very similar thread, take 10 years off. Yes, a full decade. Go work. Maybe in 7 years or so, if the passion to be a doc is still there, then take the pre-reqs (again). If you get A's, at a major 4- yr university (not comm college as that's not going to carry any weight with a low GPA). Then take the MCAT. Volunteer, shadow - get involved in your community.

My GPA is far lower. It's also 30 years old. My grades now are solid... and even at *my* age, I think I have a good shot because I've got 1000s of hours volunteering, 1000s of hours in leadership roles, folded in 100s of hours shadowing... Make yourself a full package, not a *gosh, I screwed up and now want to take the easiest road back to great grades* route.

BTW, DO does not grade replace anymore.

Texas has a fresh start program but you must be a resident there before it applies and must have moved there for work, not the work-around to fresh start.

GPAs do NOT rise after graduation. Whatever it was when you graduated is what it remains. HOWEVER, the AMCAS application has a summary section for ugrad, post-ugrad (where you want those A's in pre-reqs), post-bac Masters...

 

[bears1992]

If you have such a low GPA now, what makes you think you can get all A's in post-bacc classes, like you stated was your goal?

I don't mean to kill your dream, but think realistically about your ability to succeed with science courses if if it's been difficult for you in the past.

GPA is really just about work ethic and it's very common to have a student suddenly turn it around very quickly. My first two years consisted of easy 1000 level courses at a CC and I got my AA with a 2.44. I decided to kick it into high gear, applied to engineering school and maintained a 3.5. The only thing that changed between CC and engineering school was my work ethic.

 

[bjt223]

If you have such a low GPA now, what makes you think you can get all A's in post-bacc classes, like you stated was your goal?

I don't mean to kill your dream, but think realistically about your ability to succeed with science courses if if it's been difficult for you in the past.

I know what you mean. I have look at myself in the mirror for that, but that was basically a turning point. I'm starting to get straight A's from my upper division classes and I think I finally found a way how to study and time management to my potential. I know it would be a very long shot, but I am determined for sure.

 

[bjt223]

With grade replacement a thing of the past, retaking classes is not going to significantly help you like before. Some ADCOMs on here have stated that a reinvented student will need to retake the prereqs and get A's, other ADCOMs have said they weigh a retake the same as a new class. In your case, I would start by retaking the prereqs at a CC with the goal of having all A's in your prereqs. Then start taking upper level Biology courses and getting A's in those as well. A year of retakes at CC and a year of upper level Bio at a state college or university with a 3.9+ GPA would have your app viewed favorably at school that heavily weigh upward trends. PNWU has specifically said that they only consider the last 90 credits. Schools like that would see you as a student who has a mediocre year followed by two phenomenal years which would look better than a student with just 3 good years. Obviously you will need a great MCAT to go with it. Your biggest problem will be schools that auto screen below 3.0 cGPA and sGPA BUT with two years of straight A's in science, you should be above a 3.0 in both.

Some schools really value their matriculate stats and accepting a student with a 3.0 that has a fantastic upward trend would still bring there stats down. Other schools (your target schools) care more about COMPLEX pass rates and match rates. Those schools would see you as a competitive student with two years of 3.8+ in medical school relevant coursework and great MCAT scores that would boost their pass rates. Just focus on retaking your prereqs at a CC and see how it goes. If you are consistently getting 3.5 or less, I would look to another field or a Caribbean school if it's worth the risk to you.

Thank you for your advice. I really appreciate it. If I couldn't get any higher than 3.8 GPA in CC, then I would quit and look for another field. I'm not going to risk Caribbean school, that for sure.

 

[bjt223]

As I said in your other, very similar thread, take 10 years off. Yes, a full decade. Go work. Maybe in 7 years or so, if the passion to be a doc is still there, then take the pre-reqs (again). If you get A's, at a major 4- yr university (not comm college as that's not going to carry any weight with a low GPA). Then take the MCAT. Volunteer, shadow - get involved in your community.

My GPA is far lower. It's also 30 years old. My grades now are solid... and even at *my* age, I think I have a good shot because I've got 1000s of hours volunteering, 1000s of hours in leadership roles, folded in 100s of hours shadowing... Make yourself a full package, not a *gosh, I screwed up and now want to take the easiest road back to great grades* route.

BTW, DO does not grade replace anymore.

Texas has a fresh start program but you must be a resident there before it applies and must have moved there for work, not the work-around to fresh start.

GPAs do NOT rise after graduation. Whatever it was when you graduated is what it remains. HOWEVER, the AMCAS application has a summary section for ugrad, post-ugrad (where you want those A's in pre-reqs), post-bac Masters...

That a great advice and I really love your story. However, sometimes I feel like I am crunch in time. If I were 22 or 23, then sure, but with long record of mediocre GPA, I just feel like I have to jump on it now.

 

[bears1992]

Thank you for your advice. I really appreciate it. If I couldn't get any higher than 3.8 GPA in CC, then I would quit and look for another field. I'm not going to risk Caribbean school, that for sure.

That is exactly how you should look at it. I am in my last semester of a DIY postbac at a local state school and I have only received 1 B (Bio II lab) in my 11 classes. This is coming from someone who had a 2.44 GPA at 74 credits. It is 100% all about work ethic.

 

[bjt223]

That is exactly how you should look at it. I am in my last semester of a DIY postbac at a local state school and I have only received 1 B (Bio II lab) in my 11 classes. This is coming from someone who had a 2.44 GPA at 74 credits. It is 100% all about work ethic.

By my curiosity, did you start at community college or went to state school? If you can, can you tell me your story here or private message? I would really appreciate it. Thank you.

 

[bears1992]

By my curiosity, did you start at community college or went to state school? If you can, can you tell me your story here or private message? I would really appreciate it. Thank you.

Bears1992 story:
I started college at during my junior year of high school (dual enrollment program). I was basically just a lazy student and I got my AA from community college with 74 credits with a 2.44 a year after I graduated high school. I wanted to do mechanical engineering and transferred to a local university and started their engineering program. I was below the 2.5 cutoff and had to beg the school to give me a shot. I think that "back against the wall" kind of got me very motivated and I put alot of time into school and was a much different student. During this time I worked full time doing construction design (not sure how I even landed that job). That work ethic paid off and I finished engineering school last year with a 3.51 after 3.5 years in the program (I only took 3 classes a semester because I had a full time job. During my last year in engineering school, I started thinking about med school for two reasons. 1) med school was not really a possibility until my senior year because i had less than a 3.0 up until then 2) engineering was great and I really liked it but I wanted a field with a purpose. To me, engineering and medicine are very closely related in that both are problem solving based but medicine has the ability to make a significant difference in someones life and I felt it was an upgrade over engineering.

Right after graduation, I got an engineering job at the same company, started volunteering in an ER 5 hours a week, and started on my prereqs at my local state college. I will certainly be an underdog when I apply in the summer but I think I have a shot if I apply to 20-25 schools and get at least a 505 on the MCAT. My diagnostic test from TPR was a 495 so I should be able to bump that up to a 505 in the next four months. Here is a basic rundown of my grade trend.

2009
B - American History I
B - American History II
W - American Lit
C - English I
C - English II
C - Earth Science
B - Intermediate Algebra
B - College Algebra

2010
C - Gen Chem I
C - Gen Chem I Lab
C - Economics
C - Precalculus
C - American Government
C - Philosophy
A - Creative Thinking
B - Trigonometry
B - PrePhysics
C - Student Success
W - Calc I

2011
B - Health
B - Calc I
W - Calc II

2012
C - Calc II
D - Calc III
C - Physics I
A - Physics I Lab
C - Physics II
A - Physics II Lab
C - Differential Equations
B - Calc III

2013 (transferred to engineering university)
B - Statics
C - Thermodynamics
A - Dynamics
B - Strength of Materials
A - Computer Applications I
A - Electro-Mechanical
A - Engineering Materials
A - Fluid Mechanics

2014
B - Vibrations
A - Computer Applications II
A - Engineering Graphics
A - Finite Element Analysis
A - Dynamic Systems
A - Heat Transfer
A - Statistics for Engineers
C - Applied Fluid Thermal Engineering
B - Machine Design I
B - Fundamentals of Engineering

2015
B - Experimental Methodology
B - Machine Design II
A - Advanced Computational Fluid Dynamics
A - Differential Equations II
A - Vibrations II
C - Plastics
A - Engineering Design
A - Engineering Lab
A - Design Project

2016 (At small local state school)
A - Physics I (retake)
A - Physics II (retake)
A - Gen Chem I (retake)
A - Biology I
A - Biology I Lab
A - Gen Chem II
A - Gen Chem II Lab
A - Biology II
B - Biology II Lab
A - Organic Chemistry I
A - Organic Chemistry I Lab

2017
Organic Chemistry II
Organic Chemistry II Lab
General Psychology
Intro to Sociology
Biochemistry

The retakes were before they ditched grade replacement

 

[holdthemayo]

Hey everyone,

Excuse me if this questions may seems similar, but I have look through past threads, but could not find the answers I want so I was wondering if anyone can help me out.

So I am 27 years old, just graduate with as a Chemistry major. I spend 6 years in community colleges prior to university plus 2 years in university, but overall manage to pull through a 2.5 sGPA and 2.7 cum GPA. I have not taken any MCAT yet, but I am saving for that whenever I am ready.

So my question is if I decide to go back to community college to retake pre-requiste courses, get an A's, and transfer to a state college to hopefully do well in upper division in a different majors earning a second bachelor's. Would that be okay? I will be working full-time as well and CC's classes are mostly flexible with it. Would this look bad on my part?

Thanks.

Were you part time for those 6 years in CC? If you were full time then you will have a very difficult time moving your GPA. Use Excel or a GPA calculator to figure out how many credits of 4.0 coursework you will need to get your GPA to a 3.0. That is probably the minimum number of courses you need to take to have a realistic chance. If you can get into an SMP (and ace it) you can cut a year's worth of courses off of that calculation.

Best case scenario you have several years worth of work ahead of you without any guarantee of success when you are done.

You will find many people on this site who had poor GPAs but managed to reinvent themselves and gain an acceptance. Almost all of them took several years to convincingly prove they were different students then their previous selves.

Read this post by DrMidlife: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/the-low-gpa-what-do-i-do-thread.827879/#post-11083370
It is the best advise you are likely to get for your situation

Treads for encouragement:

Low GPA success stories: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...ntrads-already-accepted-to-med-school.675835/

Below 3.0 gpa Support Group/Thread: http://www-forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/below-3-0-gpa-support-group-thread.1015398/

 

[backside_attack]

GPAs do NOT rise after graduation. Whatever it was when you graduated is what it remains. HOWEVER, the AMCAS application has a summary section for ugrad, post-ugrad (where you want those A's in pre-reqs), post-bac Masters...

Not entirely true. You're right that they're listed separately as far as degree vs. post-bacc work vs. graduate work, but on my AMCAS (which I just dug up to check myself! lol) there is still a cumulative GPA for all "undergraduate level" work, which is especially important for sGPA. I think you probably meant this but based on how it was said, I just wanted to clarify for anyone reading.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Thank you for your help. Just curious, why would DO benefit me than MD? DO school don't do grade replacement anymore so I am assuming everything will be averaging out. Would it be beneficial for me to redo and retake all my classes in community college and state school and earn second bachelor's?

DO schools tend to take older students who have life experience and look at the entire package rather than see you just as a GPA number.

 

[WGSgrad]

Not entirely true. You're right that they're listed separately as far as degree vs. post-bacc work vs. graduate work, but on my AMCAS (which I just dug up to check myself! lol) there is still a cumulative GPA for all "undergraduate level" work, which is especially important for sGPA. I think you probably meant this but based on how it was said, I just wanted to clarify for anyone reading.

+1

OP, search through some of old threads and look for post by a poster named DrMidLife. Don't take it with a grain of salt, believe it's as bad as they say it is, and then develop your strategy. Like another poster above suggested, your application would benefit from you putting some distance between yourself and those old grades as you'll have a better narrative to tell come personal statement time. You also need to search the forum threads to find the AMCAS GPA calculator and plug in all those grades you posted above so you know as opposed to having some vague idea, what it will take to get your application in front of human eyeballs.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[bjt223]

+1

OP, search through some of old threads and look for post by a poster named DrMidLife. Don't take it with a grain of salt, believe it's as bad as they say it is, and then develop your strategy. Like another poster above suggested, your application would benefit from you putting some distance between yourself and those old grades as you'll have a better narrative to tell come personal statement time. You also need to search the forum threads to find the AMCAS GPA calculator and plug in all those grades you posted above so you know as opposed to having some vague idea, what it will take to get your application in front of human eyeballs.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Thank you for the advice. I have read DrMidLIfe posts and totally agree with all his sentiments. For now, I will just get a full time job and continue to work on myself. I am hoping to get back to school and rework for second degree. If my dreams are still there, I am definitely will shoot for the stars. It's going to be a long road for me.