Post-Step 1 Vacation with Loan Money?

[AsianPersuasion]

Go to SE Asia. It's way cheaper than that.

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[Lannister]

Go to SE Asia. It's way cheaper than that.

That was my original plan actually, I really really want to go to Thailand. However, I actually only have 12 days total including travel time as I have another commitment in the USA near the end of my time off. I don't think 12 days is enough for me to go to Thailand given that it's so far. Some day!

 

[Danny Archer]

Little disclaimer: I have not made the best financial decisions in my life.

That being said, it is completely reckless and a complete abuse of the system to use money you don't have on anything other than education. Taking out a loan to finance your education is one thing, but taking one out (10k no less) to go piss it all away in some city in Europe is another (and a pretty undignified one at that).

 

[Crayola227]

Little disclaimer: I have not made the best financial decisions in my life.

That being said, it is completely reckless and a complete abuse of the system to use money you don't have on anything other than education. Taking out a loan to finance your education is one thing, but taking one out (10k no less) to go piss it all away in some city in Europe is another (and a pretty undignified one at that).

stuff the righteousness, please

 

[Tenk]

Totally not worth it.

Total cost = cost + money lost to interest + money lost to not investing = a hell of a lot more than $10,000.

You are going to have to work for more than a few weeks straight to make up that lost money as an attending. If my past self did that I would travel back in time and kick my own ass.

 

[Crayola227]

and if you never ended up taking a trip like this you would also want to kick your own ass

I don't propose that he spend the whole 10K on a 2 week trip by any means

 

[hmockingbird]

I would say yes for mental health/life is short purposes but don’t go all out. Check out budget airlines, hostels, AirBNB etc.

I went to Europe this year for $900 base cost. Budget airline (Norwegian), my flight to NYC to catch that flight (I have family I stayed with and let me tell you NYC is more expensive than the majority of Europe lol), and hotels... would have been cheaper if I stayed in hostels but I hate them. The Norwegian flight was basically on a jet that wasn’t as spacious but it was fine. Probably spent another $500 on food/admissions/souvenirs. I also went on a bigger trip after I graduated med school and my base cost was probably only about $1500 because travel within Europe is super cheap (Ryanair all the way).

Anyway just trying to give you an idea of what’s doable. Also, maybe think about Canada? Sometimes they have good flight deals (WestJet has had some good sales in the past year) or if you are close enough you could even drive. I grew up going to Canada before you needed a passport - my family would just drive there since we lived about 3h from the border. I love it and feel like it’s underrated. They have some really cool cities and obviously great outdoorsy opportunities!

 

[Gibbward]

That was my original plan actually, I really really want to go to Thailand. However, I actually only have 12 days total including travel time as I have another commitment in the USA near the end of my time off. I don't think 12 days is enough for me to go to Thailand given that it's so far. Some day!

Nah dude 12 days is more than enough! Day 1: get to Asia, Day 2-5: Thailand fun, Day 6: travel to Vietnam, Day 7-11: Vietnam fun, Day 12: back to the USA. Would prob cost you MAX $2k.

 

[Oh_Gee]

That was my original plan actually, I really really want to go to Thailand. However, I actually only have 12 days total including travel time as I have another commitment in the USA near the end of my time off. I don't think 12 days is enough for me to go to Thailand given that it's so far. Some day!

thailand is really cheap once you get there. hostels are like $3-4/night, rent motor scooter for $3/day

 

[The Physician Philosopher]

Totally not worth it.

Total cost = cost + money lost to interest + money lost to not investing = a hell of a lot more than $10,000.

You are going to have to work for more than a few weeks straight to make up that lost money as an attending. If my past self did that I would travel back in time and kick my own ass.

After I did the math on this, I completely agree.

 

[Tenk]

and if you never ended up taking a trip like this you would also want to kick your own ass

I don't propose that he spend the whole 10K on a 2 week trip by any means

Na cause in just a few years you could take 2-3 trips for the same “price” while at the same time not being at work which is kind of a no brainer to any attending. They can do whatever they want but it’s really just shifting a huge amount of work to their future self for instant gratification. It’s like buying a Ferrari right out of residency: you can do it, but it sure as hell isn’t smart.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

I'm doing my Post Step decompression period like the great Lord always intended...

Cocaine and hookers baby!

WHOOOO! *RIC FLAIR voice*

(don't do drugs, kids.)

 

[QueenJames]

(don't do drugs, kids.)

I'M DYINGGGG LMAAAOOOOO

 

[68PGunner]

(don't do drugs, kids.)

Do a few bongs of marijuana after Step 1 count?

 

[Crayola227]

Na cause in just a few years you could take 2-3 trips for the same “price” while at the same time not being at work which is kind of a no brainer to any attending. They can do whatever they want but it’s really just shifting a huge amount of work to their future self for instant gratification. It’s like buying a Ferrari right out of residency: you can do it, but it sure as hell isn’t smart.

You have no idea if you're actually going to get there. A lot can happen to you when you get out of school and before you start that job as an attending.

I think I mentioned this already. The chances might be low, but it's there. Life is about more than money. Bad or inconvenient things happen all the time.

I don't suggest a very expensive trip.

Maybe I've just exposed to too many stories of woe IRL and on SDN. Not just people getting terminated, but becoming ill, getting married during that time, spouses or relatives becoming sick in ways that make getting away for a substantial international trip off the table for a while, having a child with special needs, all sorts of stuff.

A lot of people put trips off in school only to find they have to then put off trips for years, or even to the "Golden Years" but the golden years aren't always so golden. Every day that you live is another day to develop a chronic condition, and who knows how that will be.

I had an away rotation in another country during med school and took an awesome vacation, it was expensive, and I wouldn't take it back for all the tea in china or my giant loans.

It's fine, people have different ideas about how conservative they want to be about money vs how they spend their lives. I don't otherwise spend a lot of money and I'm on the income based repayment plan so I'm not particularly plussed about giant loans or paying on that for a bajillion years. If my income goes to the toilet, so do the payments.

For various reasons I think prioritizing what has been said to prioritize is a mistake but it depends on how you value money and life experiences, and the assumptions you make about your future. I'm probably more conservative about things going wrong than I am about dollar amounts.

I'd rather work harder in the future to afford to do the things I can today while I still can. Because committing myself to that work is a better idea than not enjoying things important to me when/while I can.

The loan and payment don't go anywhere and the payments can always be afforded. The time, health, and convenience on the other hand... can always run out on you.

 

[Crayola227]

For various reasons I didn't do a year abroad in college, not just for educational reasons like what would it do to my pre-med GPA, or the money, but also for personal reasons.

I didn't do it in my gap year.

I kept putting it off because now never seemed a good time, and money. Boy am I glad I didn't do that in med school. Once you start you medical career and marriage it can get harder and harder.

I regret the trips I didn't take, not the ones I did.

It's fine, we had the debate. We each look at this differently, there isn't really a right or wrong, although I am inclined to say that I think the potential for regret is higher down one path than the other depending on what's important to you.

The OP will have to decide for themselves which path they want to take and in what aspect they want to conserve, risk, and spend.

 

[Crayola227]

After I did the math on this, I completely agree.

I think the issue is that there's more to consider than the math.

 

[ortnakas]

Absolutely go on a trip. There’s very limited time off in the next few years; take advantage of it when you can!

Using loan money to fund it is okay, but you can probably have an excellent vacation (the exploration kind or the relaxation kind, whatever floats your boat) for considerably less than $10K.

 

[bananafish94]

She specifically said that she doesn't intend to take out $10,000, only that she's eligible to take out that much more and that the trip will be considerably less. Anyway, I'm definitely going on vacation after Step 1. I've been working unbelievably hard and this is one of few times in the course of medical school where I won't have any responsibilities. I don't have much interest in telling my grandchildren about how I was financially responsible and saved a few bucks in medical school instead of going on a fun trip.

 

[The Physician Philosopher]

I think the issue is that there's more to consider than the math.

What ya got in mind?

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[Lannister]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all the input, and I think both sides definitely have valid points. I'm going to spend the rest of the day making rough travel plans and see how much it comes out to be.

 

[Crayola227]

What ya got in mind?

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I think I said ad nauseum. Opportunity cost, not sure that's the right term. You could worry about future math at the expense of seizing the day.

You don't know that you'll have the time, health, or finances to do this later. You do know that IF and it's an IF actually, you get to attendinghood and work, that you can theoretically work this off. That comes at the expense of the fact that you may have to work more hours in the future to take the trip now than if you do the trip later. Owing loan money is the only real constant in this whole question, more or less is part of the equation but not the end all.

Life isn't just math. There's qualitative factors.

I don't suggest hugely compromising your retirement planning as a result of loans and increasing them for this trip.

I was told in med school some math along this. That the $5 cup of fancy coffee I bought as a student would be like $20 to repay by the end of school or by attendinghood, not sure.

So I did my best to drink coffee or tea at home. Other times though, I needed the coffee today so that I could function and get to be a doc in the first place, so the money was spent. That's not the same as a trip, but maybe you need the trip today to ensure that it happens. You are trading off 2 or 3 future trips that may never be a reality to have one today.

Do things now that you would regret never having done, if you can. You have to balance the idea you could die tomorrow with living to be 80, and planning accordingly, of course.

People think if they get into medical school they are set for life and their life plans are going to go how they think. I know this is untrue. It just is.

Making sure I got the trip I had always wanted for almost a decade, during medical school, is one of the best decisions I have ever made, money be damned. Because life circumstances changed shortly after, and if I had not done it when I did, then it might have been the death of a lifetime dream.

I don't think working a few extra weeks as an attending is a bad trade off for fulfilling such a dream and it not having the chance to die. If I had lost that opportunity to save myself a few extra future weeks of work, there's no dollar value on that regret.

 

[The Physician Philosopher]

I think I said ad nauseum. Opportunity cost, not sure that's the right term. You could worry about future math at the expense of seizing the day.

You don't know that you'll have the time, health, or finances to do this later. You do know that IF and it's an IF actually, you get to attendinghood and work, that you can theoretically work this off. That comes at the expense of the fact that you may have to work more hours in the future to take the trip now than if you do the trip later. Owing loan money is the only real constant in this whole question, more or less is part of the equation but not the end all.

Life isn't just math. There's qualitative factors.

I don't suggest hugely compromising your retirement planning as a result of loans and increasing them for this trip.

I was told in med school some math along this. That the $5 cup of fancy coffee I bought as a student would be like $20 to repay by the end of school or by attendinghood, not sure.

So I did my best to drink coffee or tea at home. Other times though, I needed the coffee today so that I could function and get to be a doc in the first place, so the money was spent. That's not the same as a trip, but maybe you need the trip today to ensure that it happens. You are trading off 2 or 3 future trips that may never be a reality to have one today.

Do things now that you would regret never having done, if you can. You have to balance the idea you could die tomorrow with living to be 80, and planning accordingly, of course.

People think if they get into medical school they are set for life and their life plans are going to go how they think. I know this is untrue. It just is.

Making sure I got the trip I had always wanted for almost a decade, during medical school, is one of the best decisions I have ever made, money be damned. Because life circumstances changed shortly after, and if I had not done it when I did, then it might have been the death of a lifetime dream.

I don't think working a few extra weeks as an attending is a bad trade off for fulfilling such a dream and it not having the chance to die. If I had lost that opportunity to save myself a few extra future weeks of work, there's no dollar value on that regret.

You obviously haven't seen my most recent post on my website haha. Check this one out (it's on topic): The Eighth Philosophy: Intentional Spending - The Physician Philosopher

I am all about making the head (math/finances/etc) and heart (intentional spending) happy. Intentional decision making and intentional spending are what I encourage.

The problem is that there is actually really good research on what makes us happy. Unfortunately, we are not very good at determining that for ourselves and end up being disappointed a lot of the time in things we thought would make us happy.

That said, experience typically make us happier than things. If this one trip is it, by all means take the trip. Just recognize it's gonna cost you a boat load of money, and that it's a lot more than you think. Opportunity cost is exactly the right word.

What I was saying earlier is I wonder if there is a trip that would be less expensive right now that would provide the same amount of joy. I am sure that the OPs bucket list is longer than just one item. Save the most expensive stuff for if/when you make it.

If you dont end up making it that is even more reason to not take the trip. Debt is insurmountable for some if it doesn't work out.

Sorry if I missed some of your prior posts. I wasn't trying to make you repeat yourself.

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[Lannister]

What I was saying earlier is I wonder if there is a trip that would be less expensive right now that would provide the same amount of joy. I am sure that the OPs bucket list is longer than just one item. Save the most expensive stuff for if/when you make it.

The trip I'm looking at right now (because I change my mind about where I want to go every ten minutes) is $1500 pretty much all-inclusive + another $800 in airfare. Unfortunately it's the kind of trip that requires a travel group (not about to get murdered trying to go hiking in a foreign country by myself) so I couldn't save money by doing it without a group. Definitely better than $10,000 though haha. I'll keep looking though!

 

[The Physician Philosopher]

The trip I'm looking at right now (because I change my mind about where I want to go every ten minutes) is $1500 pretty much all-inclusive + another $800 in airfare. Unfortunately it's the kind of trip that requires a travel group (not about to get murdered trying to go hiking in a foreign country by myself) so I couldn't save money by doing it without a group. Definitely better than $10,000 though haha. I'll keep looking though!

Sounds very reasonable!

 

[funtertaining15]

Hi all, just looking for some input into what other people would do in this situation.

I scheduled my step 1 so that I would have two weeks off afterwards, and was planning on going to Europe with my mom (who would be paying for the trip). However, that has fallen through, and my mom is no longer able to go.

I'm considering going by myself. However, I would have to finance the trip with loan money. I take out unsubsidized loans for tuition, and my parents/grandparents pay for my cost of living, so I am still eligible for another ~$10,000 or so in loans this semester.

I'm torn. Obviously, going on vacation with loan money is not the best financial decision. But on the other hand, I was really looking forward to this trip, and I can't help but think, "what's another few thousand dollars on top of the ~160k of debt I'll have after graduating?".

Any opinions?

If you were going to go with your mom but can't...if I were you, I'd just wait till 4th year...more free time and still time to travel...and if it's after match then you know you'll be able to pay off the money at some point... But also, maybe now you can plan it out and see if there are more affordable means..but if you can't go there now, maybe do something else less expensive... A few hundred isn't bad but if it's over 1000$ just for a vacation of loan money...idk just wait.

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[idkididk]

There will always be a million reasons not to do something. A million reasons to stay in your comfort zone and never experiencing _____.

The trip I'm looking at right now (because I change my mind about where I want to go every ten minutes) is $1500 pretty much all-inclusive + another $800 in airfare. Unfortunately it's the kind of trip that requires a travel group (not about to get murdered trying to go hiking in a foreign country by myself) so I couldn't save money by doing it without a group. Definitely better than $10,000 though haha. I'll keep looking though!

PM me if you want to talk about traveling solo and saving that $

 

[ciestar]

If you can swing it, find those credit cards (looking at you, Chase) that give you a lot of points for airline miles. Last summer, we literally funded an entire European vacation on credit card reward points.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Im bringing my suitcase to the testing center, taking Step, then immediately flying to Tennessee for 4 days of Bonnaroo.

Dont be opulent, but travel when you have the chance IMO. Taking a little bit of time before the grind of 3rd year is also pretty darn important.

 

[Lannister]

It's confirmed: my flights are booked for 10 days in Italy! My wonderful mother is going to book everything and then charge me a set price so I don't have to worry about spending more than I intended, and she's given me a price ceiling which seemed very reasonable to me. I'm super excited. It's actually making studying for step a lot easier, know that I have something awesome to look forwards to after.

 

[Crayola227]

It's confirmed: my flights are booked for 10 days in Italy! My wonderful mother is going to book everything and then charge me a set price so I don't have to worry about spending more than I intended, and she's given me a price ceiling which seemed very reasonable to me. I'm super excited. It's actually making studying for step a lot easier, know that I have something awesome to look forwards to after.

 

[Lawpy]

You have no idea if you're actually going to get there. A lot can happen to you when you get out of school and before you start that job as an attending.

I think I mentioned this already. The chances might be low, but it's there. Life is about more than money. Bad or inconvenient things happen all the time.

I don't suggest a very expensive trip.

Maybe I've just exposed to too many stories of woe IRL and on SDN. Not just people getting terminated, but becoming ill, getting married during that time, spouses or relatives becoming sick in ways that make getting away for a substantial international trip off the table for a while, having a child with special needs, all sorts of stuff.

A lot of people put trips off in school only to find they have to then put off trips for years, or even to the "Golden Years" but the golden years aren't always so golden. Every day that you live is another day to develop a chronic condition, and who knows how that will be.

I had an away rotation in another country during med school and took an awesome vacation, it was expensive, and I wouldn't take it back for all the tea in china or my giant loans.

It's fine, people have different ideas about how conservative they want to be about money vs how they spend their lives. I don't otherwise spend a lot of money and I'm on the income based repayment plan so I'm not particularly plussed about giant loans or paying on that for a bajillion years. If my income goes to the toilet, so do the payments.

For various reasons I think prioritizing what has been said to prioritize is a mistake but it depends on how you value money and life experiences, and the assumptions you make about your future. I'm probably more conservative about things going wrong than I am about dollar amounts.

I'd rather work harder in the future to afford to do the things I can today while I still can. Because committing myself to that work is a better idea than not enjoying things important to me when/while I can.

The loan and payment don't go anywhere and the payments can always be afforded. The time, health, and convenience on the other hand... can always run out on you.

Unfortunately, many members on SDN are addicted to approaching every single matter strictly in economic and financial perspective. It's most notorious when making decisions on where to attend for medical school, with many financially minded members blindly emphasizing the option of picking the cheaper school while dismissing important non-financial matters like fit, opportunities, personal wellbeing etc. In the end, I don't use SDN to get random financial advice so I ignore the suggestions anyways.

Personally, I think a trip is fine as long as the expenses aren't burdensome, which doesn't look like it. So here, the non-financial aspects (e.g. enjoying the trip and a break from school) definitely outweigh financial concerns, and so the trip is reasonable.

 

[idkididk]

Excited for you OP!

 

[The Physician Philosopher]

So I ended up writing a post on the cost of a trip on loan money on my website because of the OP's original question. It came out today (www.thephysicianphilosopher.com)

I am also starting a "resident series" over the next week to discuss timely and important financial topics for residents.

Thanks for this thread and the thought provoking conversation.



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[Perfect Hair Day]

Ended up writing a post on this coming out at end of February. Hint:: that 10k Europe trip costs a lot more than you think!

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The power of compounding interest is very real

 

[Steve_Zissou]

I suggest you apply for a vacation loan through here: alpinecredits.ca/how-we-help/vacation/. If you're looking for low interest rates and professional consultations in finding the best options for your financial situation. Vacation loans from banks and credit unions would most likely have higher interest rates and you also need to have good credit scores to apply for one.

Bruh, you made an account and revived a three year old thread to shill this?