Posted on the SDN Facebook page today: Obese/unattractive medical students less likely to receive competitive residency

MemeLord

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So, if there is a bias in residency, anyone thinks this applies to MED school admissions as well?


I guess this means we need to maintain that gym membership during gap year...

How do we avoid this? Is this wrong? Thoughts?
 
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MemeLord

MemeLord

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Please consider changing your shaming language in the title of this post.
Already did. Recognized my mistake right at posting. Thank you!
 

efle

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Jesus, being hot vs not was literally a bigger factor than rank, clinical grades or AOA! The only bigger factor was Step 1.

Results: Reviewers evaluated 5,447 applications (mean: 74 applications per reviewer). United States Medical Licensing Examination Step 1 scores were the strongest predictor of reviewer rating (B = 0.35 [standard error (SE) = 0.029]). Applicant facial attractiveness strongly predicted rating (attractive versus unattractive, B = 0.30 [SE = 0.056]; neutral versus unattractive, B = 0.13 [SE = 0.028]). Less influential but still significant predictors included race/ethnicity (B = 0.25 [SE = 0.059]), preclinical class rank (B = 0.25 [SE = 0.040]), clinical clerkship grades (B = 0.23 [SE = 0.034]), Alpha Omega Alpha membership (B = 0.21 [SE = 0.032]), and obesity (versus not obese) (B = -0.14 [SE = 0.024]).
 
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MyOdyssey

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So this Duke study says that one's picture attractiveness >> grades, honor society memberships and class rank. It's not just being good looking; it's being photogenic that's being selected for.
 
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Unfortunately a reality for any job. Remember the "halo effect" from MCAT studying? I think the only way to get rid of this bias would be to do away with interviews and judge people on paper... but then you'd have a hard time filtering out people without social skills.
 

MyOdyssey

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Unfortunately a reality for any job. Remember the "halo effect" from MCAT studying? I think the only way to get rid of this bias would be to do away with interviews and judge people on paper... but then you'd have a hard time filtering out people without social skills.
Actually no. Never heard of it.

I think it's terrible that residencies are now swiping right or left based on applicants' pictures.
 
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MemeLord

MemeLord

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Unfortunately a reality for any job. Remember the "halo effect" from MCAT studying? I think the only way to get rid of this bias would be to do away with interviews and judge people on paper... but then you'd have a hard time filtering out people without social skills.
All interviews are performed via remote stand-ins. The same person sits with the interviewers all day for each interview. You hear the questions, you tell the stand in what to say.
 

MyOdyssey

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All interviews are performed via remote stand-ins. The same person sits with the interviewers all day for each interview. You hear the questions, you tell the stand in what to say.
The stand ins are either a virtual reality generated version of a young Brad Pitt or or young Angelina Jolie depending on the gender of the applicant.
 
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MemeLord

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Actually no. Never heard of it.

I think it's terrible that residencies are now swiping right or left based on applicants' pictures.
Based on a few threads I have read on here (they are pretty dated however) many school secondaries require a headshot? Do medical schools do the same thing?
 
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MemeLord

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The stand ins are either a virtual reality generated version of a young Brad Pitt or or young Angelina Jolie depending on the gender of the applicant.
Gender neutral. Robotic voice. All identifying features for differentiation beyond ‘you’ removed.
 
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MemeLord

MemeLord

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I've been thinking about this a lot... At some point, all of us have more or less the same attributes/applications when it comes to medical school, so attractiveness must play SOME factor, at least subconsciously. I had terrible skin breakouts during my interview season and unfortunately am not accepted at a school yet despite feeling like I did well on my interviews.

Had an attending subliminally hint that anything regarding appearance can go under the broad umbrella of "Professionalism" when people are making evaluations of you throughout your career. Sucks, but it's life, and also something at least somewhat controllable.
No joke, this is why I have maintained a manicured beard after getting out of the Army. Facial hair covers most - if not all - of my blemishes and I can trim it in such a way to accentuate a jaw line that I don’t really have.
 
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Jesus, being hot vs not was literally a bigger factor than rank, clinical grades or AOA! The only bigger factor was Step 1.

Results: Reviewers evaluated 5,447 applications (mean: 74 applications per reviewer). United States Medical Licensing Examination Step 1 scores were the strongest predictor of reviewer rating (B = 0.35 [standard error (SE) = 0.029]). Applicant facial attractiveness strongly predicted rating (attractive versus unattractive, B = 0.30 [SE = 0.056]; neutral versus unattractive, B = 0.13 [SE = 0.028]). Less influential but still significant predictors included race/ethnicity (B = 0.25 [SE = 0.059]), preclinical class rank (B = 0.25 [SE = 0.040]), clinical clerkship grades (B = 0.23 [SE = 0.034]), Alpha Omega Alpha membership (B = 0.21 [SE = 0.032]), and obesity (versus not obese) (B = -0.14 [SE = 0.024]).
Holy snit. I gotta get hot. Fast.
 
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MemeLord

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I think a big take away is that the head shot you submit to potential employers, med schools and residency programs should be professionally done and allow you to look your best.

Photogenic =/= physically attractive in real life
However

Photogenically does strongly correlate with attractiveness
 
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MemeLord

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MyOdyssey

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Ah yes, the catfish effect. Clever.
We seem to disagree about the meaning of the terms "mediocre" and "average." I don't consider those terms to be derogatory - being in the middle of the bell curve of some attribute isn't a bad thing.
 
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doctorcocter

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See, this is why I believe in taking care of myself, and a balanced diet and a rigorous exercise routine. In the morning, if my face is a little puffy, I'll put on an ice pack while doing my stomach crunches. I can do a thousand now. After I remove the ice pack, I use a deep pore cleanser lotion. In the shower, I use a water activated gel cleanser. Then a honey almond body scrub. And on the face, an exfoliating gel scrub. Then apply an herb mint facial mask, which I leave on for 10 minutes while I prepare the rest of my routine. I always use an aftershave lotion with little or no alcohol, because alcohol dries your face out and makes you look older. Then moisturizer, then an anti-aging eye balm followed by a final moisturizing protective lotion.
 
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MemeLord

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We seem to disagree about the meaning of the terms "mediocre" and "average." I don't consider those terms to be derogatory - being in the middle of the bell curve of some attribute isn't a bad thing.
Well, looking at the data from this study, the effect of being hot compared to unattractive is 3x as strong as just being average. So, in general, it seems like there is a distinct advantage to falling in the “photogenic” category as opposed to just the “neutral” category.
 
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See, this is why I believe in taking care of myself, and a balanced diet and a rigorous exercise routine. In the morning, if my face is a little puffy, I'll put on an ice pack while doing my stomach crunches. I can do a thousand now. After I remove the ice pack, I use a deep pore cleanser lotion. In the shower, I use a water activated gel cleanser. Then a honey almond body scrub. And on the face, an exfoliating gel scrub. Then apply an herb mint facial mask, which I leave on for 10 minutes while I prepare the rest of my routine. I always use an aftershave lotion with little or no alcohol, because alcohol dries your face out and makes you look older. Then moisturizer, then an anti-aging eye balm followed by a final moisturizing protective lotion.
I cannot compete with Christian Bale, but I'm starting that regimen asap. I can't change my ethnicity but I can budget honey almond scrub in with my mcat/step books. /High-yield
 

gyngyn

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I think a big take away is that the head shot you submit to potential employers, med schools and residency programs should be professionally done and allow you to look your best.

Photogenic =/= physically attractive in real life
You don't need a photo taken by a professional to look professional.
This does reinforce my strong recommendation to take your photo seriously.
One caveat: those filters that remove all imperfections are seriously creepy.
 
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MemeLord

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You don't need a photo taken by a professional to look professional.
This does reinforce my strong recommendation to take your photo seriously.
One caveat: those filters that remove all imperfection are seriously creepy.
My wife used one on the photo of us summitting a 12,000 ft peak. “You just hiked 17 miles and climbed 2 vertical miles. Do tell how you have no sweat and perfect blush!”

Or have you seen the trend of women spending like 2 or 3 hours on make up DURING LABOR for the post-delivery instagram...
 

Planes2Doc

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Everybody does, even if they don't realize it. For instance, some of my more SJW friends on Facebook are proud that they aren't prejudiced against people, yet still post memes of really attractive people. So in response, I would ask them what they would do if they saw a really hot person in the street. Would they turn around to take another look? What about an average-looking or unattractive person walking by? They will probably pass them and not even think about it. What about a person that looks like they are up to no good and are going to possibly mug you?

Whether you're walking down the street or interviewing candidates for residency, you are profiling everyone around you whether you realize it or not.
 
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Tenk

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Obesity is worse than most diseases. It is a chronic illness that has terrible side effects and greatly shortens lifespans. As physicians we should be at the forefront of educating people on ways to combat obesity. Nobody will listen to you if don’t practice what your preach. If anything this practice should be applauded in medicine.

Now if you are just born unattractive but aren’t obese, well... sorry?
 
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No joke, this is why I have maintained a manicured beard after getting out of the Army. Facial hair covers most - if not all - of my blemishes and I can trim it in such a way to accentuate a jaw line that I don’t really have.
Hate to break it to ya, but you’re not fooling anyone. If you have a beard they’ll assume your covering up a pudgy jawline.
 
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MemeLord

MemeLord

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Hate to break it to ya, but you’re not fooling anyone. If you have a beard they’ll assume your covering up a pudgy jawline.
Nah, no pudge here. Body fat percentage of 14%, squat 340, bench 180, clean 215.

I am fit, the beard just helps hide my adorable baby face so I actually look like a ‘man’ as opposed to somewhere around 16.
 
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Obesity is worse than most diseases. It is a chronic illness that has terrible side effects and greatly shortens lifespans. As physicians we should be at the forefront of educating people on ways to combat obesity. Nobody will listen to you if don’t practice what your preach. If anything this practice should be applauded in medicine.

Now if you are just born unattractive but aren’t obese, well... sorry?
Beauty bias is a lot worse in almost every other field
 

Ad2b

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Already did. Recognized my mistake right at posting. Thank you!
T/J Please consider getting rid of the ugly Dallas Stars moniker in your profile, not only do they suck but it's offensive to Blues fans, Preds fans... go ahead, you can laugh at Bolt fans as we've been playing beach darts since April :laugh: That said, if you put up a "31" inside the Star, I'd be okay with that (Bish is my son's favorite player) AND if I was mistaken and you're a Cowboy fan... I have no words for you - just total disgust:smuggrin::whistle::)
 

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MemeLord

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T/J Please consider getting rid of the ugly Dallas Stars moniker in your profile, not only do they suck but it's offensive to Blues fans, Preds fans... go ahead, you can laugh at Bolt fans as we've been playing beach darts since April :laugh: That said, if you put up a "31" inside the Star, I'd be okay with that (Bish is my son's favorite player) AND if I was mistaken and you're a Cowboy fan... I have no words for you - just total disgust:smuggrin::whistle::)
..........? Like......what....?
 

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..........? Like......what....?
under Meme Lord, you have a green block with a "STAR" in it... isn't that for the Dallas Stars of the NHL?

If not, then I just posted a bunch of babbling gobbly gook (again :D )
 
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MemeLord

MemeLord

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under Meme Lord, you have a green block with a "STAR" in it... isn't that for the Dallas Stars of the NHL?

If not, then I just posted a bunch of babbling gobbly gook (again :D )
No, that means I verified myself as a member if the Army......lol you are good though.
 

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No, that means I verified myself as a member if the Army.........
My apologies. Thank you for your service /bow

(may I suggest to the developers that in mousing-over the block it states what it is so people, like me, avid hockey fans don't do/say something stupid?)
 
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Means

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Nah, no pudge here. Body fat percentage of 14%, squat 340, bench 180, clean 215.

I am fit, the beard just helps hide my adorable baby face so I actually look like a ‘man’ as opposed to somewhere around 16.
Future Orthopod confirmed
 
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MemeLord

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Future Orthopod confirmed
Nah, just coasting on that Army muscle lol only been 6 months since ETS. The muscles will fade eventually.

Seriously, would love Ortho - but

family life >>>> prestigious residency

And anything surgical is >70+ hours consistently.
 
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MemeLord

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I hired a professional photographer and got a makeup artist for my med school application head shots.

Since ortho is one of my top choices, I’ve been lifting heavy. I want residency interviewers to see my muscles through my suits.