Postponing my application yet again? *sigh*

[sloppypapi]

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It's been 3 years since I graduated from college. For tl;dr- scroll down. For full context/ venting- continue reading.

My first gap year was to study for the MCAT (which I absolutely flunked) and do some clinical volunteering outside the US.

My second gap year was dedicated to finding work outside of an office, where I could enhance my interpersonal skills and gain a bit of the leadership experience I was too scared to pursue as an undergrad.

Currently on year three, I spent time studying for my May 6th MCAT retake: I'm confident I didn't flunk, but not entirely sure if I got the 510+ I'm hoping for.

The plan has been to apply this upcoming season. I have LORs and an interview with my alma mater's letter committee lined up. I've begun filling out the AMCAS. If all things go according to plan, I could submit my primaries in early June. But should I?

After really reflecting on my application, I think I may be selling myself short. My cGPA is low and my sGPA is lower (3.24/3.0); I knew that it would be a concern since my junior year. I consulted with my school's advisors about it: one introduced me to the fact that being URM (black) with an upward trend means I have a chance at being accepted somewhere, with other factors considered. The other advisor asked me to email her my GPA chart and then never got back to me. So, I basically just believed that 'hey, a certain percentage of applicants within my GPA range got in somewhere, so I guess I shouldn't worry about it'. Big regret tbh.

I also think, on paper, my EC hours aren't that mind-blowing. Yes, I've volunteered in Africa (I'm African so no voluntourism here, hunty). Yes, I volunteered in a clinic that serves a low-income community. Yes, I've done some mentoring for a black scholars program. Yes, I currently work in education. These are things that have the potential to stand out to Adcoms, but compared to others, I feel like there's more I could be doing.

Also, during my gap years, I've realized that there are certain things I'm genuinely interested in, such as transgender health issues and global health research, that don't show in my application. Of course, I can convey these things in writing, but wouldn't it be so much more convincing if I had experience in those things?

So yes, signs seem to point toward postpone application if you're not confident in your application, but I'm also wondering if this is just a case of having cold feet. I spoke to a new advisor, who happens to be well-connected in the medical academic community, and she told me it kind of looks bad to be 3+ years out of college as a premed. My LORs, activities, and performance from undergrad will also lose their weight as time goes by. After reviewing my resume and transcript, she thinks I should just go for it so that I can stop asking myself "what if".

I trust her opinion, which is why I haven't postponed yet. I'll admit that postponing has sort of been how I cope with my anxieties about the application process. Sometimes I need the push to just do it.

But if I do postpone, I won't be postponing just to give myself an extra year: I want to spend that time really improving my application, as if I were a reapplicant. I want to post-bacc some classes at my local state university, volunteer at a hospital, possibly assist in research, and volunteer more within my community (probably focusing on LGBT+ services, though there are so few in my area).

Ugh, I'm just frustrated with myself, because this gap probably could've been cut in half with proper guidance from the start. I'd honestly feel embarrassed postponing another year, because it seems like I can't set and achieve goals. I really don't want to postpone if it isn't worthwhile, but I think I'm capable of being a more well-rounded, competitive applicant than I am at the moment. I'm not aiming for top 10 or even top 20, but I'd like to think with a year's worth of work, I'd have a chance at a few MD schools out there.

TL;DR:
Mid 20s California resident black female applicant 3 years out of college currently working in education has low GPA but has upward trend and took old mcat but didnt do good but just took new mcat and hope to do gooder and currently planning to apply for 2016-2017 cycle but now having second thought because ECs and hours aren't as wowza as some others seen on sdn. probably could take some postbacc courses to show recent example of academic capabilities. But also worries that postponing application to 4 yrs post-graduation may put at disadvantage and make adcom go "uh oh".​

Anyway, a lot will come down to how well I do on my MCAT. I won't know that until June 7th. If I completely screwed that up, then of course, I'll have no choice but to postpone.

I'd just love to read some input. If anyone has gone through something similar, please share!

 

[hopelesswanderer34]

So take everything I say with a grain of salt because I am just another lost premed (also with a low GPA) trying to figure this process all out. But, from what I've heard, taking more time would definitely not make an adcom go "uh oh". If anything, adcoms often look favorably on taking time as it expands your resume, making your case for why you are well suited for medicine much stronger. I think this is particularly true if you struggled a bit during undergrad as there is increased opportunity to show growth and maturity, proving that you are now ready for the rigor of meds school.

That said, I also don't see a problem with applying this year if that is what you want and that is what your advisor recommends. Applying this year does not prevent you from doing all the things to strengthen your application as if you were just waiting to apply next year. In this scenario, if you did get rejected this year, you could apply as a re-applicant next year and point to all the things you did this year as why you are now a stronger applicant worthy of reconsideration.

But again, just a fellow pre-med. Best of luck!

 

[DrMikeP]

You can change the future but not the past, so create a plan now to get yourself admitted and stick to it.

Have you considered DO? Being a URM and if you do ok on the MCAT 504+ you'd likely have a really really good shot this year. Is your sgpa including retakes or does it figure in replacements, as DO is grade replacement friendly. Also, if you get submitted by the end on June for DO you'll be considered an early applicant, which will further help you. For MD depending on your mcat it could still be a significant uphill battle so really consider in-state and HBC's.

If waiting a year, decide what you can do to make your application better. Have you taken Biochem? Other advanced science classes?

Best of Luck!

 

[sloppypapi]

Thanks for the responses so far!😀

That said, I also don't see a problem with applying this year if that is what you want and that is what your advisor recommends. Applying this year does not prevent you from doing all the things to strengthen your application as if you were just waiting to apply next year. In this scenario, if you did get rejected this year, you could apply as a re-applicant next year and point to all the things you did this year as why you are now a stronger applicant worthy of reconsideration.

I guess I'm apprehensive about applying as a reapplicant because I've read that it places an even larger hurdle in front of you and a greater pressure on you next time around. People in here tend to say it's better to just get it right the first time. Also, the more $$$ I can save throughout this process, the better. But of course, I'll never know until I try.

Have you considered DO? Being a URM and if you do ok on the MCAT 504+ you'd likely have a really really good shot this year. Is your sgpa including retakes or does it figure in replacements, as DO is grade replacement friendly. Also, if you get submitted by the end on June for DO you'll be considered an early applicant, which will further help you. For MD depending on your mcat it could still be a significant uphill battle so really consider in-state and HBC's.

If waiting a year, decide what you can do to make your application better. Have you taken Biochem? Other advanced science classes?

My sSGPA has one retake from an F to a B+, but I think the GPA on my transcript fully replaced the F.
Honestly, I hadn't considered DO before this year (again, due to poor guidance and very little research on the process, which is my fault). If I were to apply to DO, I'd have to shadow a physician for long enough to get a LOR from them (I don't have one for my MD app because I lost contact with one who lives in Africa and the other has recently become friends with my family after I shadowed them, so it would introduce bias.) As you can see, another reason I'm a bit :/ over applying this year.

And nope, haven't taken Biochem. I majored in Bio, so I've taken upper-division science and excelled in it, but that was 3 years ago.

 

[hopelesswanderer34]

I guess I'm apprehensive about applying as a reapplicant because I've read that it places an even larger hurdle in front of you and a greater pressure on you next time around. People in here tend to say it's better to just get it right the first time. Also, the more $$$ I can save throughout this process, the better. But of course, I'll never know until I try.

I would agree with that (and it is definitely something that I worry about too). I was just speaking to the idea that if you do apply this cycle, there is nothing stopping you (and it is probably in your best interest) to do the things that you would do to strengthen your app had you not applied. It's a very personal and difficult decision, so it's tough to say much more than that, but every time I start worrying that I am waiting too long to apply, I remind myself that a year in the bigger picture will actually probably not mean that much. This is especially true if I were to just spend the rest of my years wondering "what if I had just waited to apply as a stronger candidate the next year..." Of course you can also get lost in this logic and never pull the trigger. It's a vicious cycle.

 

[DrMikeP]

Thanks for the responses so far!😀

I guess I'm apprehensive about applying as a reapplicant because I've read that it places an even larger hurdle in front of you and a greater pressure on you next time around. People in here tend to say it's better to just get it right the first time. Also, the more $$$ I can save throughout this process, the better. But of course, I'll never know until I try.


My sSGPA has one retake from an F to a B+, but I think the GPA on my transcript fully replaced the F.
Honestly, I hadn't considered DO before this year (again, due to poor guidance and very little research on the process, which is my fault). If I were to apply to DO, I'd have to shadow a physician for long enough to get a LOR from them (I don't have one for my MD app because I lost contact with one who lives in Africa and the other has recently become friends with my family after I shadowed them, so it would introduce bias.) As you can see, another reason I'm a bit :/ over applying this year.

And nope, haven't taken Biochem. I majored in Bio, so I've taken upper-division science and excelled in it, but that was 3 years ago.

The F will still count toward your BCPM for MD school, as they average the grades, but it will be forgiven for DO. Many DO programs allow you to shadow any physician and for those that want a DO LOR some will allow such by interview. You could find someone and shadow within a month and get a letter. If you get your AACOMAS application in within the next couple of weeks you could get it verified and submitted to schools that don't require a letter and then submit to those that require a letter by ~Aug/Sept, which is still on time for DO schools.

Contact your nearest DO school and speak with them!!! They will give you accurate advice and might even help you find someone to shadow. You can still apply to MD schools, but if you did ok on the mcat there no reason you have to wait and DO can give you many opportunities to do what you want.

If you do decide to delay a year take biochem and make an A, it'll help with your gpa and get you back into learning. But IMO unless you just bomb the MCAT waiting is more out of fear than chances for acceptance.

 

[sloppypapi]

I would agree with that (and it is definitely something that I worry about too). I was just speaking to the idea that if you do apply this cycle, there is nothing stopping you (and it is probably in your best interest) to do the things that you would do to strengthen your app had you not applied. It's a very personal and difficult decision, so it's tough to say much more than that, but every time I start worrying that I am waiting too long to apply, I remind myself that a year in the bigger picture will actually probably not mean that much. This is especially true if I were to just spend the rest of my years wondering "what if I had just waited to apply as a stronger candidate the next year..." Of course you can also get lost in this logic and never pull the trigger. It's a vicious cycle.

lol I know right? I'm sure even stellar, picture-perfect applicants can find at least one thing in their application that could use improvement. So much of it has to be confidence in your application as it stands, and I don't have that.
And you're right, another year can fly by for us just like all the previous years flew by. I'll already be volunteering with a hospital over the summer, and I'll probably look into post bacs for the Fall. Probably means I'll have to quit my job/ apply for something less demanding if I want to have any time to focus on improving.

If you don't mind me ask me, what's your situation like?

The F will still count toward your BCPM for MD school, as they average the grades, but it will be forgiven for DO. Many DO programs allow you to shadow any physician and for those that want a DO LOR some will allow such by interview. You could find someone and shadow within a month and get a letter. If you get your AACOMAS application in within the next couple of weeks you could get it verified and submitted to schools that don't require a letter and then submit to those that require a letter by ~Aug/Sept, which is still on time for DO schools.

Contact your nearest DO school and speak with them!!! They will give you accurate advice and might even help you find someone to shadow. You can still apply to MD schools, but if you did ok on the mcat there no reason you have to wait and DO can give you many opportunities to do what you want.

If you do decide to delay a year take biochem and make an A, it'll help with your gpa and get you back into learning.

Thanks so much for the info! It's helping me see a bit of light at the end of the tunnel. I can definitely start with this plan. I'll just have to see how this factors into my committee letter. I'm assuming it won't be weird to have a committee letter package and then a DO letter thrown in as well.

As a URM your stats are fine. Table says 50/50 odds if you apply with a 3.3 and a 24. You're going to get a lot of interviews for MD if you clear the equivalent of a 30 - 508? - and I'm sure you're fine for DO

https://www.aamc.org/download/321514/data/factstablea24-2.pdf

With respect to age:

https://www.mdapplicants.com/profile/31324/mighty-andros

Its easy to overplay it in your head because soooo many people think there's one right way to live life, and part of that way is having an exact set career path by the time you're 8 and never deviating from that. MD adcoms as a group are much more sophisticated, and recognize that human development isn't a linear process.

Thanks for the links! I've taken a look at that chart before, and I think that's why I'm worried about my ECs. Who knows what sort of ECs or personal stories/ disadvantages the 50% accepted had? I'm not sure if mine amount to theirs.
And yup, I gotta get the "omg I'm such a failure I'm almost 25 and not in med school it's never gonna happen" stuff out of my head. It's nice to see success stories like that.

 

[DrMikeP]

Some of us will be 50 when we start med school and wish we'd have done it at 25, so just do it!

Contact a DO school and actually an MD school tomorrow! If they don't reply move ahead anyway and get your applications filled out.

I've done a lot of academic consulting for professional students and I am serious when I say you have a real chance. Don't get wrapped up in how the bottom 50% had something you didn't. If you have some self-doubt or depression thing holding you back get help and push ahead.

All the best

 

[backside_attack]

Re: not having a DO letter/shadow...

I didn't have either and still got DO acceptances. N=1 here, but it isn't an automatic disqualifier.

 

[sloppypapi]

Do you think its possible to find a DO by November who will write for you?

Also, with respect to EC's, I don't know if that's true or not. But also consider your strengths; for one, your writing quality is likely above average for DO applicants.

By November? Probably. With a quick google, there's a DO about 5 miles from me, and then a few in the bigger city 30 minutes away. I could try nudging a few of them to shadow.

And aw thank you 🙂

 

[68PGunner]

Its a pain in the neck and I went like 0/15 DO's I contacted earlier this year when I had less on my plate. And I think they require it because it is a pain in the neck and it proves you really really wanna be a DO.

My plan for post-MCAT is to print off a list of DO's on the east coast and just go down the list until I find one who will let me shadow. If that means 500 rejection calls and 1k bucks to fly to NY or KY or whatever for travel, so be it.

I mass emailed to about 50 DOs within a 10 mile radius of my location. I received about 3-4 offers within 48 hrs.

 

[68PGunner]

Oh sweet - what resource did you use to find emails of the DO's?

http://doctorsthatdo.org/

Start ringing that phone and spamming that email son. You're in sales now.

 

[Dullhead]

http://doctorsthatdo.org/
Start ringing that phone and spamming that email son. You're in sales now.

Did you find emails there? There's phone numbers for sure.

 

[sloppypapi]

http://doctorsthatdo.org/

Start ringing that phone and spamming that email son. You're in sales now.

Awesome! Turns out that there are actually more DOs in my area than I thought.

Welp, I better start scripting my awkward phone introduction. Boy, do I just love making cold calls!

 

[68PGunner]

Did you find emails there? There's phone numbers for sure.

So you know the doctor's name and the place of employment. I'm sure that you can find the physician email somewhere through google. Personally, I belong to a hospital network. It wasn't hard for me to start pulling out emails utilizing that resource.

 

[DrMikeP]

Awesome! Turns out that there are actually more DOs in my area than I thought.

Welp, I better start scripting my awkward phone introduction. Boy, do I just love making cold calls!

Something to consider is that you want to practice coming across as confident and capable, even if scared to death which isn't unusual.

So maybe reframe it as, I'll get my script ready so I can rock the conversation and have someone to shadow by the end of the week.

Practicing it here and elsewhere will help prep you for interviews and personal statement. Being arrogant or thinking you are always right is bad, being confident is a trait of a good doctor. Just a suggestion.


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[68PGunner]

Yeah except there are no emails there.

Classy representing it as super easy when you actually had an "in"

This is a portion of what the poster wrote to me in PM:

'These phone calls "So I'm looking to shadow a DO" "Sorry we're not doing that now" just isn't a good use of my time, and is a wee bit awkward. '

 

[68PGunner]

I also called a bunch of DOs up, explaining to their secretaries my situation and give them my contact information. I also received a few calls back. If you can't cold call a physician, how are you going to cold call a patient's family member and explain the death of their loved ones?

 

[DrMikeP]

If you have medical insurance, some ins companies include physician emails. Some states you can look email and phone # up online under licensure information. Best way to get contact info is to call your local DO school and see if they will be nice enough to give you a list. Some will.

Yes it's a pain and takes a ton of effort, but the results are worth it if you want to be a physician.

 

[68PGunner]

You can't brag about winning a race when you started 3/4ths of the way to the finish line. Its like listening to The Donald brag about his achievements in business when he didn't even beat an s&p 500 index fund in terms of returns on money from Dad.

Yeah, I wish I could start 3/4ths of the way to the finish line.

Were these parents that provided access the email list of DO's? If so, even worse.

This is an onerous requirement for those who don't have friends or family in DO. It can be overcome, but the way it gets done is by having 499 doors slammed in your face, not by sending a few emails.

You insult me. I work for a living.