Potentially Negative Recommendation Letter

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stradgirl

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I just had a meeting with a MD that I volunteer for in his organization to discuss about him writing me a LOR for my medschool application. He asked me about my grades and MCAT (sGPA 3.38, 31L) and they are mediocre so I explained that I come from a nontrad background. He was very disappointed and said that he's not confidant that I'll be a doctor and said that he will not be comfortable with me being with patients. But... he agreed to write me the LOR. So, I don't think he's going to write me a good one so how do I decline his offer to write the LOR?
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Uh yeah, find a different letter writer.
 
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in any situation where you are asking for an LOR, ask them directly: "Will you be able to write me a POSITIVE recommendation for medical school?"


if they hesitate or say no, then GTFO!
 
stradgirl said:
I just had a meeting with a MD that I volunteer for in his organization to discuss about him writing me a LOR for my medschool application. He asked me about my grades and MCAT (sGPA 3.38, 31L) and they are mediocre so I explained that I come from a nontrad background. He was very disappointed and said that he's not confidant that I'll be a doctor and said that he will not be comfortable with me being with patients. But... he agreed to write me the LOR. So, I don't think he's going to write me a good one so how do I decline his offer to write the LOR?
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"I really appreciate that you agreed to write me a letter of recommendation. However, I recently found out that medical schools prefer letters from professors than doctors so I will not require your assistance on my application. Thank you so much for letting me shadow you and learn more about the profession. It has been a fantastic opportunity."

Or something along these lines. Be very polite and grateful for the shadowing opportunity to leave a good impression. But make it clear that you don't need the letter. He won't care... he hasn't written it yet.
 
stradgirl said:
I just had a meeting with a MD that I volunteer for in his organization to discuss about him writing me a LOR for my medschool application. He asked me about my grades and MCAT (sGPA 3.38, 31L) and they are mediocre so I explained that I come from a nontrad background. He was very disappointed and said that he's not confidant that I'll be a doctor and said that he will not be comfortable with me being with patients. But... he agreed to write me the LOR. So, I don't think he's going to write me a good one so how do I decline his offer to write the LOR?
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I haven't been in this position where a rec letter writer explicitlly told me I'm a bad candidate for whichever program I wish to apply to, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

I would just a.) Let him write his heart out, but DON'T submit it - I think you have the option to pick which letters for interfolio to mail out or b.) Send him an email letting him know that another one of your professor has actually agreed to write a letter for you when you sent out a request weeks ago and you won't need him to write the letter anymore...and thank him for his time!

I feel like that is really mean of him to straight up tell you you won't be a good doctor based on your MCAT / GPA scores. At least you can infer that he might not write you a strong recommendation letter.
 
stradgirl said:
I just had a meeting with a MD that I volunteer for in his organization to discuss about him writing me a LOR for my medschool application. He asked me about my grades and MCAT (sGPA 3.38, 31L) and they are mediocre so I explained that I come from a nontrad background. He was very disappointed and said that he's not confidant that I'll be a doctor and said that he will not be comfortable with me being with patients. But... he agreed to write me the LOR. So, I don't think he's going to write me a good one so how do I decline his offer to write the LOR?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTmtCGDrE_8&t=0m24s
 
Thanks. Definitely going to bail... I just need to know how to do it appropriately. 😕
was the most uncomfortable conversation I had in my life.
 
stradgirl said:
Thanks. Definitely going to bail... I just need to know how to do it appropriately. 😕
was the most uncomfortable conversation I had in my life.
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Wow he sounds like an a.sshole. Who gave him the right to tell you what you can and can't do? Unbelievable.

OP, I'm sorry. Drop him as a letter writer. You deserve better anyway
 
Definitely do NOT get his letter. He sounds like a terrible person who will write you a terrible letter just to hurt you.
 
This MD is an absolute *****.

Let him write the letter, just DO NOT submit it (like a previous reply said).
 
OP one of my letter writers/professor for two semesters went through every aspect of my transcript/application/PS and analyzed me like crazy. I was absolutely sure he would give me a terrible letter because he just seemed so critical of everything on my resume (Oh you have volunteer? Y u no have leadership? Oh you have leadership? Y u no mention that before? -insert Asian dad jokes here-). Just had some bad juju because he also mentioned something like "well there's always grad school as an option too you know". I about freaked out at that point.

Anyways, I seriously considered calling him after the interview and saying thanks but no thanks, but decided to stick it out because I had no other science professor I felt comfortable asking. Even though I waived my right to see it, he emailed me a week later with the letter attached and said he had already given this letter to my pre-med committee and wanted me to read it.

I was terrified to open but when I did I found probably my best letter on my entire application. With his credentials at evaluating students, with the grade I received in his courses and this letter, it all culminated into a terrifyingly awesome letter.
 
drbull said:
Let him write the letter, just DO NOT submit it (like a previous reply said).
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This is rude.

Don't make him spend the time writing a letter that you know you're not going to use just because you're too afraid to tell him that you no longer require his letter. It's a good example of the real world where you will have to learn techniques to politely tell people difficult news 😉. And somehow I don't think he'll be crushed when you tell him that he doesn't need to spend the time writing a letter for an applicant he doesn't support.
 
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he was so mean 🙁 I want to just give you a hug. I would probably have melted.
 
:laugh: and people said after you become a doctor you won't care so much about GPA and MCAT.
 
You don't need the letter from a MD anyway since most med schools don't want the physician letter.
 
SnowyRox said:
This is rude.

Don't make him spend the time writing a letter that you know you're not going to use just because you're too afraid to tell him that you no longer require his letter. It's a good example of the real world where you will have to learn techniques to politely tell people difficult news 😉. And somehow I don't think he'll be crushed when you tell him that he doesn't need to spend the time writing a letter for an applicant he doesn't support.
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Maybe it's just me, but I'd have no qualms at all about letting this jerk write his little heart out on the letter, and then giving his letter a proper send off. Let the flames lick that paper before it goes up in a puff of smoke. :laugh:

Anybody who is that much of a jerk deserves to have his time wasted.
 
Thanks for the encouragements! wow, yeah... I felt he totally raped all my hopes for med school... but feeling better after all the nice posts. Gonna retake the MCAT this July and hopefully do better and prove him wrong.
 
ccrone said:
Maybe it's just me, but I'd have no qualms at all about letting this jerk write his little heart out on the letter, and then giving his letter a proper send off. Let the flames lick that paper before it goes up in a puff of smoke. :laugh:

Anybody who is that much of a jerk deserves to have his time wasted.
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Precisely.
 
Do you possibly have any other physician that you could ask to write you a STRONG/POSITIVE letter of recommendation? It would probably help...Have you shadowed a physician that could write you a good letter?
 
That sucks. Try not to let it get you down.

What kind of person basically tells you that you shouldn't be a doctor and then agrees to write it anyway? Does he just want an opportunity to burn your chances? What a tool.

Here is what you do:

Step 1: Get into medical school
Step 2: Show him the acceptance letter
Step 3: Respectfully tell him to shove it
 
ccrone said:
maybe it's just me, but i'd have no qualms at all about letting this jerk write his little heart out on the letter, and then giving his letter a proper send off. Let the flames lick that paper before it goes up in a puff of smoke. :laugh:

Anybody who is that much of a jerk deserves to have his time wasted.
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+1
 
drbull said:
This MD is an absolute *****.

Let him write the letter, just DO NOT submit it (like a previous reply said).
Click to expand...

This is what I'm doing with what I now think will be a neutral letter.
 
TheWeeIceMan said:
That sucks. Try not to let it get you down.

What kind of person basically tells you that you shouldn't be a doctor and then agrees to write it anyway? Does he just want an opportunity to burn your chances? What a tool.

Here is what you do:

Step 1: Get into medical school
Step 2: Show him the acceptance letter
Step 3: Respectfully tell him to shove it
Click to expand...

Then he turns out to be bet buds with the dean of your med school and he does the same with a cancelation of your acceptance.
 
TheWeeIceMan said:
That sucks. Try not to let it get you down.

What kind of person basically tells you that you shouldn't be a doctor and then agrees to write it anyway? Does he just want an opportunity to burn your chances? What a tool.

Here is what you do:

Step 1: Get into medical school
Step 2: Show him the acceptance letter
Step 3: Respectfully tell him to shove it
Click to expand...

+1,000,000,000,000.

I love revenge stories. I'm so going to do this too.
 
While I don't agree with the MD's assessment that your stats are too low to be a doctor, I do think he did you a favor by disclosing how he feels. Imagine if he had not said anything and written you a negative LOR. He did you a favor. Now you can move on!
 
Run. Run for the hills.

Find a different letter writer. Also, I disagree with him. I don't think that UG grades are a significant factor in being an able physician. If you graduate med school, you have every right to be at patients' bedsides.
 
stradgirl said:
I just had a meeting with a MD that I volunteer for in his organization to discuss about him writing me a LOR for my medschool application. He asked me about my grades and MCAT (sGPA 3.38, 31L) and they are mediocre so I explained that I come from a nontrad background. He was very disappointed and said that he's not confidant that I'll be a doctor and said that he will not be comfortable with me being with patients. But... he agreed to write me the LOR. So, I don't think he's going to write me a good one so how do I decline his offer to write the LOR?
Click to expand...

First, I certainly wouldn't submit that letter.

Second, I would wonder -- based upon his response -- whether his concerns are only RE: your stats. The statement that he "will not be comfortable with [you] with patients" is vague and potentially concerning. Is there something beyond the numbers (and whatever he thinks they indicate) that might have made him say that? Was there something you did or said (or didn't do/say)?

On the other hand, if his qualms about you becoming a doctor with those stats (not bad at all, really) were really ONLY about the stats, then yeah, he's a jerk. Move on.
 
startingover84 said:
While I don't agree with the MD's assessment that your stats are too low to be a doctor, I do think he did you a favor by disclosing how he feels. Imagine if he had not said anything and written you a negative LOR. He did you a favor. Now you can move on!
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The doctor should've shared his opinion then said something like "And in light of that, I don't think I can write you a positive letter of recommendation."
 
I would basically use Interfolio. Have him upload the letter to interfolio. Just dont send the interfolio letter to AMCAS or TMDSAS
 
music2doc said:
First, I certainly wouldn't submit that letter.

Second, I would wonder -- based upon his response -- whether his concerns are only RE: your stats. The statement that he "will not be comfortable with [you] with patients" is vague and potentially concerning. Is there something beyond the numbers (and whatever he thinks they indicate) that might have made him say that? Was there something you did or said (or didn't do/say)?

On the other hand, if his qualms about you becoming a doctor with those stats (not bad at all, really) were really ONLY about the stats, then yeah, he's a jerk. Move on.
Click to expand...

You have a good point, perhaps she didn't tell the whole story?
 
ECU Pirate said:
You have a good point, perhaps she didn't tell the whole story?
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Yeah, it just makes me wonder. I've known professors to rely upon stats to some degree because they're from an academic background and have very little to go off when it comes to determining what would make a good physician. Docs, on the other hand, generally don't care hardly at all about academics. Back when my dad when to med school (and he's now a clinical professor), a 30 on the MCAT and a decent GPA was all you needed. The volunteering, etc. were all nice to have, but not really necessary. Further, neither he nor his peers would ever evaluate a pre-med's potential by grades unless it's truly clear the person just didn't have what it takes (thing <2.5-3.0 GPA and significantly <29-30 MCAT). They tend to be far more focused on the soft skills.

One doc that had worked with me showed me his LOR after submitting it, and it basically talked about how I'd worked with him for X years on his unit, my realistic knowledge/understanding of what a physician does (having seen it first-hand every day at work), the breadth of patients and presentations to which I'd been exposed, several of my personal strengths as observed by himself and his colleagues, and a general recommendation (i.e., I believe music2doc possesses all of the requisite characteristics of an outstanding physician and I recommend him most highly to you). He didn't even mention my MCAT or GPA because 1) there was no need, and 2) it's really none of his business.
 
Regarding his reaction, perhaps he's just assuming that you won't get in??.....so, therefore, he sees no logical reason why you should be around his patients.
 
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Clearly don't get him to write a letter. You don't need a letter from an MD anyway.

And have a conversation with him about why he said doesn't think you will be a good doctor. You know, sometimes criticism can help you. Plus, if it's something that interviewers may notice or comes out in your app somehow, you should know about it now so you don't get rejected for it.

And what is with all these revenge-driven people? We don't know the whole story. Maybe this doctor wasn't being a jerk. Maybe he was trying to be helpful. In any event, shoving a med school acceptance in his face does nothing. Terrible doctors are produced all the time. The application process does not weed them out. I'm not saying the OP will be a terrible doctor, but we really have no insight into this situation. OP, it sounds like a situation where you could actually learn something.
 
Letter writers will almost never tell you "no" when you ask for a LOR. Instead, they'll drop hints when they don't want to write your letter. Generally speaking, if a potential letter writer ever voices any kind of hesitation about writing you a letter, thank them for their time and find someone else. If they're actually being outright hostile to you then RUN.

Another point: When you ask someone to write you a letter, don't say "Can you write me a LOR?" but rather "Would you feel comfortable writing me a GOOD LOR?" Again, a lot of people will nod their heads and say "yes" to the first ones even if they're just going to open up their "boilerplate_LOR.docx" file and fill in a few blanks. The latter gives them a lot of room to say no and makes it clear you're looking for a LOR with substance, not a generic LOR to satisfy an application requirement.
 
I would not take his LOR and I will try to find out why he thinks you wouldn't make a good doctor. If it is only your stats then screw him, but if it is related to the way you treat people/patients in general I would take the criticism and try to improve in this area. Adcoms might pick up this.
 
I met with one of my profs and he was honest and said he could only write me mediocre form letter and that i should ask other profs instead.

I like that he just told me straight up, talked to my other profs and they were super excited to write me strong letters.

Sent from my Galaxy S2 via tapatalk
 
AOT11 said:
Wow he sounds like an a.sshole. Who gave him the right to tell you what you can and can't do? Unbelievable.

OP, I'm sorry. Drop him as a letter writer. You deserve better anyway
Click to expand...

This👍
 
stradgirl said:
Thanks for the encouragements! wow, yeah... I felt he totally raped all my hopes for med school... but feeling better after all the nice posts. Gonna retake the MCAT this July and hopefully do better and prove him wrong.
Click to expand...

Don't worry about it bud, everyone encounters opposition at some point. It doesn't hurt anything to have the rec in your file and choose not to send it in the end, so if you want to go ahead with it then feel free.

If you want to be sneaky, you can say you need several "sealed paper copies" to send to AMCAS and you can open one and read it...but this might be a breach of confidentiality. I think it'd be far better to follow the advice on the thread and be quite frank and honest: "Sir, I would hate to impose on your schedule for this recommendation; would you have the ability to write me a letter that would serve as an asset to my application?"
 
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