Practice

[Gutierrez001]

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Hey
waz up with International DO Practice Rights...Why do DO's have problems practicing in certain countries? My dream of working in SPAIN was crushed today after reading the international sticky thread. Do you guys believe these rights will change in the future? Just a though...🙁 which sucks.

 

[Jpc984]

Hey
waz up with International DO Practice Rights...Why do DO's have problems practicing in certain countries? My dream of working in SPAIN was crushed today after reading the international sticky thread. Do you guys believe these rights will change in the future? Just a though...🙁 which sucks.

I think they will change in the future, but I wouldn't bank on it by the time we become Docs.

 

[Gutierrez001]

I think they will change in the future, but I wouldn't bank on it by the time we become Docs.

That really sucks...i wanted to finish my career in Spain. I guess i have to look elsewhere...maybe Colombia.😀

Anyone else thinking about maybe practicing outside the US??

 

[MossPoh]

there are a whole lot of issues with practicing aside form recognition of DO. That was the toughest part of deciding medicine for me...I kind of had to give up living in Europe for a while. I had a sweet gig I could've done in Berlin as well...and I made connections with a division leader at BMW, as well as a small tech consulting firm....oh well.

 

[Gutierrez001]

there are a whole lot of issues with practicing aside form recognition of DO. That was the toughest part of deciding medicine for me...I kind of had to give up living in Europe for a while. I had a sweet gig I could've done in Berlin as well...and I made connections with a division leader at BMW, as well as a small tech consulting firm....oh well.

That sucks...Is english spoken in berlin?

 

[jason3278]

What I don't understand is, why do some countries only allow DO's to practice manipulation? I mean, yeah they're trained in OMM, but the majority of DO's are hardly specialists in it. Go to medical school for four years learn some OMM, do a residency in psychiatry/emergency medicine/surgery/whatever, and then move to France or whatever and you're told that you can only practice manipulation, something of which you can hardly call yourself a specialist? This makes no sense.

 

[group_theory]

there are a whole lot of issues with practicing aside form recognition of DO. That was the toughest part of deciding medicine for me...I kind of had to give up living in Europe for a while. I had a sweet gig I could've done in Berlin as well...and I made connections with a division leader at BMW, as well as a small tech consulting firm....oh well.

Actually in the past PCOM alumni have been successful in getting unrestricted license to practice in Germany.


As a side note - every year there are physicians from Germany who come to PCOM to learn a little bit about OMM. I'm sure JPHazelton can elaborate more on it.

 

[group_theory]

What I don't understand is, why do some countries only allow DO's to practice manipulation? I mean, yeah they're trained in OMM, but the majority of DO's are hardly specialists in it. Go to medical school for four years learn some OMM, do a residency in psychiatry/emergency medicine/surgery/whatever, and then move to France or whatever and you're told that you can only practice manipulation, something of which you can hardly call yourself a specialist? This makes no sense.

Actually it makes perfect sense if you think globally. Only in the US are US-trained DOs full physicians with all the rights and priviledges.

In Canada, a Canadian-train DO is limited to only OMT. Osteopaths in Canada are not under any formal government regulation in most provinces.

In England, English-trained DOs are a regulated profession, and only registered osteopath by the General Osteopathic Council can call themselves "DOs" or "Osteopaths" as established by the 1993 Osteopathic Act of Parliament.

There are osteopathy schools in Spain, Germany, France, etc.

So they want to protect their turf, just as the AOA does not want osteopaths trained outside the US to come and represent themselves as "DOs" when it comes to treating patients.

Some links if you are interested (not all links are in english)

England - General Osteopathic Council
http://www.osteopathy.org.uk/

Australian Osteopathic Association
http://www.osteopathic.com.au/

Belgium Society of Osteopathy
http://www.osteopathie.be/

German Register of Osteopathy
http://www.osteopathie.de/

 

[walkoffhr]

Actually it makes perfect sense if you think globally. Only in the US are US-trained DOs full physicians with all the rights and priviledges.

In Canada, a Canadian-train DO is limited to only OMT. Osteopaths in Canada are not under any formal government regulation in most provinces.

In England, English-trained DOs are a regulated profession, and only registered osteopath by the General Osteopathic Council can call themselves "DOs" or "Osteopaths" as established by the 1993 Osteopathic Act of Parliament.

There are osteopathy schools in Spain, Germany, France, etc.

So they want to protect their turf, just as the AOA does not want osteopaths trained outside the US to come and represent themselves as "DOs" when it comes to treating patients.

Some links if you are interested (not all links are in english)

England - General Osteopathic Council
http://www.osteopathy.org.uk/

Australian Osteopathic Association
http://www.osteopathic.com.au/

Belgium Society of Osteopathy
http://www.osteopathie.be/

German Register of Osteopathy
http://www.osteopathie.de/

On the sticky thread, it says that D.O.'s have full practice rights in the U.K.

 

[cbest]

For the record, American-trained DOs can practice in every Canadian province and territory with the exception of Saskatchewan. Check out osteopathic.ca for more info if you're thinking about heading to Canada!

 

[group_theory]

American-trained DOs can have full-practice rights in England and most provinces of Canada.

I was referring to native-trained DOs - English-trained DOs in England, Canadian-trained DOs in Canada, Australian-trained DOs in Australia

 

[MossPoh]

Actually in the past PCOM alumni have been successful in getting unrestricted license to practice in Germany.


As a side note - every year there are physicians from Germany who come to PCOM to learn a little bit about OMM. I'm sure JPHazelton can elaborate more on it.

Previous Post: English is spoken in Berlin...but it isn't the standard. If you are in east Berlin, forget it. Nearly every person over the age of 30 or so from east Berlin had Russian growing up. I am sure one could offer services to only expats, but considering I am more interested in non-primary care fields it would be tough.

Yes, but that is because it SUCKS to practice in Germany..horrendous, horrible, doctors are fleeing out of the country, protesting, etc.. I just want to practice in Europe in general.

Reading over that german osteopathic site...it is very dodgey. Germans have always been into a more holistic approach to begin with. I lived with a holistic medicine person. Many of the "schools" they have on there are listed as businesses, or private academies. I am having a hard time believing good students go to those schools considering there are a ton more people that start out medicine there.....and they don't pay a thing. If you did horrible on your abitur I suppose that is an option....but I mean, it isn't THAT hard to get in if you are smart enough. I called up a few schools and told them I had passed the language classes at Humboldt and was interested in medicine and I went and talked with them that day about it.

They seem to exclusively focus on the manipulation part osteopathic medicine. The french sites seem to be the same way, from what I read with my limited french ability. They make it seem more like chiropractor stuff than medicine with manipulation thrown in. Germans pay filthy amounts of money for all of that stuff though...should have seen the apartment this lady I lived with was in. She owned a BUILDING and had it filled with artists and family members. There was a center garden area and then a back building where she did meditation, cupping, reike, and all that stuff. I came out of my room a few nights to her naked on the floor with african music playing and being cupped by her lady friend with dreadlocks.

I really don't know the goal of this post...kind of realized that now. Just tangents I guess.

Check out http://www.still-academy.de/ The academy is not affiliated with a school. It is essentially a business. It is a Gmbh or Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung....that is somewhat like a limited liability company here.

 

[Dr JPH]

I think you should realize that the information contained in that sticky is grossly outdated.

I dont know why the Mods havent updated or removed it altogether. 🙄

If you look under Spain in that post you will notice that the last time the Spanish ministry of health was petitioned by an american trained DO was in 1994.

My excellent math skills put that at 13 years ago.

A lot has changed since then in regards to practice rights for american trained DOs. In fact many of the European osteopathic schools have begun to do away with the "DO" degree in an effort to help distinguish between their 'osteopaths' and us as physicians.

I am almost certain that Spain has a different take on american trained DOs than that post implies.

In fact I can point out a handful of mistakes in that list that I know first hand are false.

Like with everything else on SDN you need to consider the source and do your own research into a topic before coming to a conclusion.

 

[toothless rufus]

For the record, American-trained DOs can practice in every Canadian province and territory with the exception of Saskatchewan. Check out osteopathic.ca for more info if you're thinking about heading to Canada!

American-trained DOs can have full-practice rights in England and most provinces of Canada.

I was referring to native-trained DOs - English-trained DOs in England, Canadian-trained DOs in Canada, Australian-trained DOs in Australia

Seems like it might be hard to drum up non OMM business, because the natives of these countries only know it as such.

 

[Dr JPH]

Seems like it might be hard to drum up non OMM business, because the natives of these countries only know it as such.

Its NEVER hard to get business as a physician, no matter where you go.

 

[mshheaddoc]

I think you should realize that the information contained in that sticky is grossly outdated.

I dont know why the Mods havent updated or removed it altogether.

JP - you know that is taken DIRECTLY from the AOA website and was last update in 2006? Its not "us" that is outdated, its the AOA's site. If you'd like to give us the updated information if anything has changed, that be great! 😀

 

[Dr JPH]

Unlimited Practice:

Argentina
Australia
Austria
Bahamas
Belize
Bermuda
Brazil
Canada
Cayman Islands
Central African Empire
Chile
China
Colombia
Costa Rica
Dominican Republic
Ecuador
Finland
Germany
Greece
Guyana
Honduras
Hong Kong
India (must obtain for nationality first)
Israel (must obtain nationality first)
Italy
Lebanon
Liberia
Luxembourg
Micronesia
Nepal
New Zealand
Nigeria
Panama
Papua New Guinea
Russia
St. Lucia
Saudi Arabia
Scotland
Sierra Leone
Sweden
Taiwan
Tanzania
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
Vietnam
Zambia

 

[Dr JPH]

Limited to OMM Only: No new information since 1999

Barbados
Jamaica
France
Norway
South Africa
Zimbabwe

 

[Dr JPH]

Unknown Status: As of 1999 these countries have an unknown status as to their acceptance of US trained DOs. Must contact each nation individually for more information. They have no official published policy on US trained DOs.

Bolivia
Cambodia
Denmark
Egypt
Ghana
Guatemala
Iran
Japan
Kenya
South Korea
Kuwait
Laos
Netherlands (currently a case by case basis for any foreign trained physician)
Nicaragua
Pakistan
Peru
Philippines
Romania
St. Kitts
Spain
Switzerland
Syria
Thailand
Turkey
Ukraine
Venezuela

 

[Dr JPH]

NO Practice Rights:

Aruba (only graduates from 5 U.S. MD schools may gain licensure in Aruba)
Indonesia (missionary/academic work only, NO foreign physicians may practice unlimited)
Ireland (currently under consideration by Irish government)
Malaysia
Mexico (NO U.S. trained physician (MD or DO) may practice without a 5 year residency completed under the supervision of a Mexican physician)
Morocco (NO U.S. trained physician (MD or DO) may practice in Morocco)
Singapore (only graduates from 11 U.S. MD schools may gain licensure in Singapore)
Uganda

 

[sexyman]

O man- my dreams of opening a practice in malaysia are destroyed! 🙂

 

[mshheaddoc]

Thank you JPH!!!!

Can list your source?

 

[MossPoh]

and the crazy amounts of paperwork and hoops one has to jump through to practice at each location. 😉 That is the toughest part. Just like the US, other countries have their own routines. So while it may be accredited and counted, not like you could finish up residency here and hop on a plane and get a job in some other country...well, maybe some countries.

I always wondered if you could maybe be the exclusive doctor for some large US Embassy and their families or something. That'd be pretty cool, and may not have to worry about all the other stuff if it is on embassy land. That is just a guess with no reasonable evidence to support it though...

Perhaps I'll go radiology, buy a house in greece, italy, or some nice area in bulgaria and just do telerad stuff. 😛