Pre- Med safety net schools
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If you don't get into a good university, then there's a rare chance of getting into a good medical school. Isn't that how it usually works? I want to make sure the university i go to is at least going to allow me a chance at getting accepted to a nice med school.
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No, that is not how it works
I'm obviously not certain about this, but it seems that being 99%ile in most measures of premed success will get you into most med school. Thus, perhaps choose an undergrad based on factors outside of the competitiveness of the premed program.
wtf? How are you not certain about this. If every aspect of your application is 99th percentile (however that's defined), you are getting into medical school. This is like saying that the best, juiciest 99th percentile looking fruit at the supermarket will be bought and eaten. Duh
That's not what I meant. I apologize if my point came across in a way that was not intended. I meant that some schools place significant value on undergrad school such that a student with great grades and other activities may not be on equal footing with similar students from more highly ranked undergrads.
This is nothing close to what you first said. lol
But I agree with said statement. However, this site really does not need another "do top schools matter" thread
No that is not true. The prestige of someones undergrad is not weighed heavily.
GPA
MCAT
Extra Curriculars
That is what will determine if an individual gets into medical school.
Im assuming as long as a Pre Med...
1) Is qualified academically (Competitive GPA and MCAT).
2) Proves genuine interest in Medicine.
3) Displays altruism.
4) Is socially competent.
Then they are most likely set.
All these factors are much more important than undergrad prestige IMO.
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There is something called the MCAT. If you go to a less competitive school a strong MCAT and you will get into med school. I went to a tier 2 university (as defined by us news) and all my friends that did well on the MCAT are at top 50 medical schools. I myself am also a medical student at my top choice medical school. My suggestion as far as safety schools go is your state school. Saving money on tuition will really help you. Med school is expensive you don't want to accumulate debt in undergrad.
Firstly, private medical schools care a lot about undergrad selectivity while public medical schools do not - see AAMC survey.
Secondly, you can check out the universities with highest premed densities and look for schools that have high % premed but are outside top 20/ivy/whatever tier 1 and 2 means. At a quick glance this would include schools like:
Case Western Reserve
Wake Forest
U of Miami
Michigan Ann-Arbor
UC San Diego
U of Rochester
Tulane
St. Louis University
All of these have ~1/10 or more graduating seniors apply to med school, so should have a ton of guidance and resources for you.
Secondly, you can check out the universities with highest premed densities and look for schools that have high % premed but are outside top 20/ivy/whatever tier 1 and 2 means. At a quick glance this would include schools like:
Case Western Reserve
Wake Forest
U of Miami
Michigan Ann-Arbor
UC San Diego
U of Rochester
Tulane
St. Louis University
All of these have ~1/10 or more graduating seniors apply to med school, so should have a ton of guidance and resources for you.
Define "good". HSers (and college students to the same extent) usually have really warped ideas of what constitutes a "good" school and what resources their schools do and don't have compared to others.
Good (n.): an object that can earn subjective appraisals from strangers that they are impressed with your credentials
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Look for undergrads affiliated with a large academic hospital
According to an AAMC report, admissions deans like elite private schools that are very tough to get into. The tier 1 non-Ivies like NYU and Vanderbilt are good picks if you can't get into HYPSM or another Ivy. When you look at the students at elite med schools, most of them are from elite undergrad programs.
If you can't get into one of those, your best bet is just good old State U.
If you can't get into one of those, your best bet is just good old State U.
Just curious, what university rankings define tier 1 and 2 in USNWR?
There is no cutoff because the rankings are ultra subjective and variable. Don't worry about this because it ultimately won't make a big difference. No one is going to fault you for going to Northwestern over Cornell or something.
I think it may be tier 1 HYPSM, tier 2 the rest of top 20. I betcha it comes from college confidential , they make SDN look relaxed and sensible about this stuff
Yep
The premed definition of "elite" undergrad is both naive and stupid when it comes to getting into medical school. School name really doesn't matter. What will ultimately matter will be where you trained (residency/fellowship) to landing a job and you'll be surprised which ones those are (hint: not your usual Ivies)
There's only 2 reasons to actually go to an elite school or ivy:
1. You like your ego stroked
2. YOu want to go into either law, business or politics... then those schools and the connections you make there matter.
Undergrad gives you a leg up if you perform well, but it's likely not going to be the deciding factor for whether or not you get into top school x or y if you're a very strong applicant. Generally strong applicants at top undergrads would have been top applicants elsewhere too.
Nope.
Yes.
so you guys are saying; no matter what undergrad i go to, if i have a good gpa and mcat score plus extra curriculum activities that there is a chance of getting accepted to a good med school?
Yes.
so you guys are saying; no matter what undergrad i go to, if i have a good gpa and mcat score plus extra curriculum activities that there is a chance of getting accepted to a good med school?
Case has a reputation for being incredibly competitive and stressful. I had friends who I think were as smart or smarter than me who got chewed up by it. I wouldn't go there just because you think you have a better shot at getting into med school. (I was at a different school in the area and did research there.)
Go where you think you will be happiest and most engaged. You will do the best. Obviously make sure it has the resources you need, but don't get bent out of shape about the name of the school.
"Smart" and "having the maturity to adjust to academic life at a particular college" are often very different things.
I went through Case UG and didn't think it was particularly competitive. Stressful, maybe, but I was an engineering major.
It does take some adjusting to for most people; they were "smart"/top of the class in HS, but so was everyone else at Case.
It does take some adjusting to for most people; they were "smart"/top of the class in HS, but so was everyone else at Case.
The best UG school will be the one where you thrive. Do you perform better when you are the big fish in a small pond? Or when you are peddling as fast as you can to keep up? Do you want spoon-feeding and hand-holding? Or an abundance of opportunities? What about the social or Greek scene?
Also look at why you're not going to a Tier 1 or 2 school? Lack of effort? Lack of ability? Learning differences? Those are all different problems with different solutions, but each requires solving if you want to make it into med school.
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This is absolutely not true.
^ This. Go to a school that has the research/volunteering/extracurricular/sports activities that YOU want to do! I went to my state school which was my best fit, and this didn't prevent me from getting interviews and into med school. Ultimately, I think what got me in were the stories I could tell about why I pursued what I did and what I learned along the way! Best of luck, @missrv . 🙂
Hopefully I don't get shade for this. But UCSD is sometimes considered the place students go if they were rejected from UC Berkley and/or UCLA. Disclaimer: I'm not one of those. I only applied to UCSD.
Correlation does not imply causation. The fact that there were a ton of Penn, Berkeley, and Stanford kids at my interviews at Hopkins, Penn, Pitt, etc interviews was most likely because people who go these schools usually are very talented and driven, not because people in the admissions office gushed over their pedigrees. I honestly feel like going to a state school helped my application. I usually had very nice conversations about our football team at all my interviews.
While the AAMC data shows private schools place an emphasis on undergraduate institution selectivity its never defined if they care if the demarcation is between community college/random unselective undergrad school and a respectable four-year institution, or if they care if you went to Michigan State vs Stanford. Anecdotaly speaking, none of my private school interviews seemed to question the selectivity of my undergrad institution and not a single school seemed to brag or focus on what schools there class came from eg "Over 80% of our class comes from Tier 1 universities, so don't worry about having to share the anatomy lab with the rif raf from those state schools"
While the AAMC data shows private schools place an emphasis on undergraduate institution selectivity its never defined if they care if the demarcation is between community college/random unselective undergrad school and a respectable four-year institution, or if they care if you went to Michigan State vs Stanford. Anecdotaly speaking, none of my private school interviews seemed to question the selectivity of my undergrad institution and not a single school seemed to brag or focus on what schools there class came from eg "Over 80% of our class comes from Tier 1 universities, so don't worry about having to share the anatomy lab with the rif raf from those state schools"
Defined as bottom 25%. Tier 1 is top 75% and is numerically ranked.
A lot of posters naively seem to define this arbitrarily as top 20. I hope schools like Mayo and Baylor aren't upset about not being up to snuff for these individuals.
I went to an unknown, local state school for free. GPA was like 400,000.0, and I slayed the MCAT. Med schools never asked about my undergrad institution once they saw the numbers. School doesn't matter when your numbers are high. Of course I had the other stuff that fills out the app, but those numbers are what gets your foot in the door.
That's a gross distortion of what people mean when they say "top 20" or "top school." There are certainly premeds who think like this, but there are also premeds who think a 3.2 is good enough for MD. They are nowhere near the majority.
