Pre vet and being a Hunter?

[siker11]

I did a search about hunting and vets, and I don't think I saw anything related to what I'm about to ask.. SO please forgive me if I missed it...

So I'm sure that they will ask about outside activities, things I would do in my free time, hunting is one of them. Would that be frowned upon in the Veterinary world? I can leave it off, but I don't want it to seem like I'm lying. Is it weird that I want to do both, Hunt and save animals?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[orca2011]

I know of a few vets who hunt , and I'm pretty sure I have a few classmates who do as well. Not sure if doing it more for sport or if you actually use the animal you hunts for food makes a difference, but there are vets out there that do.

 

[geldedgoat]

If you decide to bring it up in your interview or application, you may be challenged to defend a consistency in your views. You won't be automatically discounted for hunting, though, since every vet school that I'm aware of has food animal-themed courses available.

 

[Kyoht]

I put on mine that I enjoy hunting and fishing as activities. It didn't seem to hurt me. I have a few friends in my class that hunt and I know a lot of vets that do. No one has given me any crap about it so far.

 

[DVMDream]

A lot of the people in my current veterinary class hunt. You will be fine, they probably won't even think twice about it, to be honest. Heck, they might even ask in a interview what you hunt.. could be a common ground as I am sure there are veterinary professors that hunt as well. I highly doubt they question you about it at all...

 

[DVMDream]

If you decide to bring it up in your interview or application, you may be challenged to defend a consistency in your views. .

No. There is no inconsistency so why would this even come up?

 

[siker11]

Well I utilize ever bit of an animal I can. I have ferrets that are on a raw diet, so they get livers, hearts, etc. And then we use the rest. Sooo in a way it is a sport, cause I do enjoy hunting, but I do use every bit I possibly can for food. But I have this feeling that in an interview they would just look down upon me for hunting. I want to get into large exotics, (wild or Captive) so I would feel that would hurt my chances.....

 

[WateryTart]

The LA vet I shadow is an avid hunter & fisher, along with her entire family. It's probably just as common among vets as it is in the general population of wherever you live. I don't see any inconsistency.

 

[shortnsweet]

I don't understand why it would be an issue. I had lectures about deer farming and hunting in vet school.

 

[MustangJumperPony]

I want to get into large exotics, (wild or Captive) so I would feel that would hurt my chances.....

Why? You are using and respecting all of the animal. You aren't finding animals to torture, and are in no way going against animal welfare. Some vets would see hunting as positive because it's a form of population control. The opposite of hunting, being strongly pro-PETA, is seen much more negatively in the vet community than hunting is.

 

[siker11]

Okay, this conversation is making me feel a little better. I just wasn't sure how peoples views on it would be, especially in a field where we are saving animals lives the best we can, Ya know? I get funny looks when I mention it sometimes, but those people are prolly the hard core PETA people... Which I respect to a certain point, don't get me wrong, but that's another conversation for another day. 😉

 

[geldedgoat]

No. There is no inconsistency so why would this even come up?

I didn't say there was one; my second statement even implies that there isn't any inherent inconsistency. I said what I said the way I said it because I have heard of other interviewees who were asked about it, only as an exercise in critical thinking.

 

[orca2011]

I only brought up sport vs utilizing the animal for food, as that was really only the potential issue I could see, but even then I don't think it'd be a problem. I'll also full on admit that I know very little about the whole hunting culture, despite being from an area of PA where a lot of people do hunt.

That being said, I actually had an opportunity to work with deer hunters in vet school to sample a bunch of heads that were submitted for CWD testing. They were very knowledgable and I had a great time learning/working with them.

 

[DVMDream]

I want to get into large exotics, (wild or Captive) so I would feel that would hurt my chances.....

As long as you aren't hunting animals that are protected and illegal to hunt, I don't see it being an issue at all.

 

[siker11]

ahah yea, Hunters arnt all that bad 😉 Not saying you were implying that they are.. Lol

Oh goodness no. I have all my license and tags and such. I was thinking about it, and got worried. Like I said, I don't know what im really getting into just yet, cause im still working on my pre- reqs to even get in Vet school, but im also working on things to improve my application. I don't need/want anything bringing me down if it can. :s

Thanks guys for your input.

 

[DVMDream]

I didn't say there was one; my second statement even implies that there isn't any inherent inconsistency. I said what I said the way I said it because I have heard of other interviewees who were asked about it, only as an exercise in critical thinking.

I guess maybe it could be used as a way to see about critical thinking, but is is a rather poor example. (Not saying that you are suggesting they use that example, if others have been asked about it then obviously they ask). It just seems rather pointless as there is no inconsistency in hunting and being a vet. To me, it'd be along the lines of asking every applicant if they eat meat and why they still want to be a vet... Just seems like a pointless question to me.

 

[geldedgoat]

Just seems like a pointless question to me.

The interviewers at Mississippi State spent a good portion of my interview discussing the obsession with everything orange that people in Knoxville have. Not everything they choose to discuss makes an incredible amount of sense, but, since I have actually heard of it coming up for those interviewees who choose to bring it up, I figured it worth mentioning the possibility. I'd say the same thing to people concerned about mentioning their vegetarianism/veganism. There's nothing inherently inconsistent there either, but the interviewer may feel the urge to probe.

 

[DVMDream]

The interviewers at Mississippi State spent a good portion of my interview discussing the obsession with everything orange that people in Knoxville have. Not everything they choose to discuss makes an incredible amount of sense, but, since I have actually heard of it coming up for those interviewees who choose to bring it up, I figured it worth mentioning the possibility. I'd say the same thing to people concerned about mentioning their vegetarianism/veganism. There's nothing inherently inconsistent there either, but the interviewer may feel the urge to probe.

Yes, I get what you are saying, there is no need to bold it. Bolding and caps are for yelling, so unless you are screaming at someone, best to not use that.

I get that the interviewers asked the interviewee, I just personally don't see how it evaluates critical thinking. It is just my opinion and clearly is not against you because you weren't the one asking the question, the interviewer was 😉. Never once said the schools asked super relevant things. Many times they go off on tangents. But if they are looking to evaluate critical thinking, asking why you hunt and can still be a vet is not a good example for assessing that, at least in my opinion.

Also, I do think questioning those about veganism/vegetarianism is probably a good idea. You could easily trap someone in there that is super PETA associated or super animal rights devoted and those are in contradiction with being a vet. Obviously not everyone who is vegan/vegetarian is animal rights, but those who are animal rights do tend to fall into that category.

 

[geldedgoat]

Yes, I get what you are saying, there is no need to bold it. Bolding and caps are for yelling, so unless you are screaming at someone, best to not use that.

I only meant to emphasize, not YELL. I offer a smiley for contrition: 🙂

 

[pp9]

The only thing I could think of is you might be asked about sustainability (hunting wolves is an issue where I'm from). And that might not even come up. It sounds like you are responsible with what you do hunt, so I'd just practice explaining how you feel that hunting correctly (not just shooting at an animal, but shooting when you have a good shot), safely, and then being responsible aboht it. I don't personally hunt, but I know many vets that do!

 

[Aegolius acadicus]

I have shadowed a vet who both hunted and fished and he used it as a conversation point with some of his clients with the same hobbies. In my area deer hunting is a really important part of population control and ecological management practices, so I wouldn't see a problem with it at all. And I don't know for sure, but I feel like even if it was something that caught the admissions review's eye in your application, they would be more inclined to ask you about it in an interview rather than discount your application entirely. Just my opinion though, I don't know for sure. I don't see a problem with it though.

 

[dyachei]

I don't see any issue with it. Just be honest.

 

[KCgophervet]

Well I utilize ever bit of an animal I can. I have ferrets that are on a raw diet, so they get livers, hearts, etc. And then we use the rest. Sooo in a way it is a sport, cause I do enjoy hunting, but I do use every bit I possibly can for food. But I have this feeling that in an interview they would just look down upon me for hunting. I want to get into large exotics, (wild or Captive) so I would feel that would hurt my chances.....

Honestly I feel like you'd get more questions/concerns with the bolded statement than you would about hunting.

 

[LivesintheLibrary]

I have shadowed a vet who both hunted and fished and he used it as a conversation point with some of his clients with the same hobbies. In my area deer hunting is a really important part of population control and ecological management practices, so I wouldn't see a problem with it at all.

I think it was 10-12 years ago, but whitetail deer in central Texas became a HUGE problem concerning overpopulation. I can't remember if they ended up calling hunters in, but I think it was heavily considered because the deer were going to start starving to death. I think if you look up some articles regarding things such as population control you should be able to find some vet's perspectives on the matter and the pros and cons of it.

I've never hunted, but I fish every chance I get, and I've found it very educational. In both sports you can learn about conservation, population control, and a TON of biology so you can bring that up with clients and interviewers.

It sounds like you're an educated hunter, so if you're worried about it coming up in interviews or clients, I think you could hold your own. However, I could see the interviewers using it as a lead in to an animal rights vs animal welfare discussion, so I would be able to apply those concepts to hunting and/or fishing (but I'm not going to open up that bag of worms now).

I hope this helps!

 

[Tragram]

.

 

[zoeymcar]

Also, I do think questioning those about veganism/vegetarianism is probably a good idea. You could easily trap someone in there that is super PETA associated or super animal rights devoted and those are in contradiction with being a vet. Obviously not everyone who is vegan/vegetarian is animal rights, but those who are animal rights do tend to fall into that category.

Why is being devoted to animal rights in contradiction with being a vet?

 

[deleted480308]

Why is being devoted to animal rights in contradiction with being a vet?

Because animal rights is a very subjective term. There's "don't torture animals" animal rights, "don't test life saving medications on animals" animal rights, and "animals are people too, no animal can be property" animal rights

Some people in the animal rights tent are crazy people, some are not

 

[Foxhunter]

I've heard fantastically funny stories about my professors hunting trips. You'll be fine. I don't see it coming up in an interview type situation. No one asked what I did for fun. If you're real involved with something like ducks unlimited and that's obvious on your application they could probably infer it, but it's not an issue. I texted pics of my 160 class buck to some classmates and professors over break this year.

 

[uioohvklbvk]

I guess maybe it could be used as a way to see about critical thinking, but is is a rather poor example. (Not saying that you are suggesting they use that example, if others have been asked about it then obviously they ask). It just seems rather pointless as there is no inconsistency in hunting and being a vet. To me, it'd be along the lines of asking every applicant if they eat meat and why they still want to be a vet... Just seems like a pointless question to me.

I don't think it's a poor example of critical thinking at all. Questions about eating meat, hunting, and use of animals in research are exactly the kind of questions people outside (or even inside) the profession will be asking us all our lives. Relatives frequently ask me why I'm not a vegetarian yet and some of my friends have been shocked that I support hunting. Although you don't see any inconsistencies between hunting and being a vet, many people do. It's important to be able to explain our views and educate others because we're supposed to "love animals so much, so how can we justify killing them?" 🙄 If I were an interviewer, I would definitely want to see how someone handled that sort of question

 

[DVMDream]

I don't think it's a poor example of critical thinking at all. Questions about eating meat, hunting, and use of animals in research are exactly the kind of questions people outside (or even inside) the profession will be asking us all our lives. Relatives frequently ask me why I'm not a vegetarian yet and some of my friends have been shocked that I support hunting. Although you don't see any inconsistencies between hunting and being a vet, many people do. It's important to be able to explain our views and educate others because we're supposed to "love animals so much, so how can we justify killing them?" 🙄 If I were an interviewer, I would definitely want to see how someone handled that sort of question

Most people inside the veterinary profession already know the answer to this and very few question people about these practices. I don't think it shows critical thinking because this is something that many people who choose to hunt, farm, fish, etc are asked quite often. They already have researched the info and have answered the question numerous times. If anything, it is an incredibly simple question for them. It doesn't demonstrate critical thinking in my mind, because they already know the answer, there is no real "thinking" involved for them to answer the question. If you want to ask a question that demonstrates critical thinking, that, in my opinion, is not the best question, because I don't think it involves much, if any, critical thinking. You want to catch someone on a critical thinking scenario ask something about ethical integrity... you just saw your boss hit a dog, what do you do? You have a client who has lost her home, after months of searching she finally found an apartment to move to but it won't allow pets, she has 2 dogs, she found a home for one, but the 10 year old, nervous, snippy dachshund with back problems still does not have a home, she wants to euthanize even though the dog is doing fine, what do you do?

Sure, it might test what they would say to the public and you might get a few people that stumble to answer the questions, but if you have spent any time around people who hunt the majority of them would easily be able to answer the question of how can you hunt and still be a vet without even missing a beat.

 

[dyachei]

Why is being devoted to animal rights in contradiction with being a vet?

Because "animal rights" indicates that you think animals should have rights the same as people have rights. Animal welfare, which is that animals should be able to have freedom from pain, appropriate care, etc is much more in line with current veterinary medicine.

At the extreme end of animal rights, people believe that using animals in any way is akin to slavery. Even as pets. And veterinarians are giving them medical treatment against their wills.

 

[uioohvklbvk]

Most people inside the veterinary profession already know the answer to this and very few question people about these practices. I don't think it shows critical thinking because this is something that many people who choose to hunt, farm, fish, etc are asked quite often. They already have researched the info and have answered the question numerous times. If anything, it is an incredibly simple question for them. It doesn't demonstrate critical thinking in my mind, because they already know the answer, there is no real "thinking" involved for them to answer the question. If you want to ask a question that demonstrates critical thinking, that, in my opinion, is not the best question, because I don't think it involves much, if any, critical thinking. ...

I don't think this is true. In fact, based on personal experience, this isn't always true. I have known several people involved in the vet world who hunt or are in support of hunting--including myself--who have been misinformed on certain topics or have gaps in their reasoning when pressed. I think that's understandable! Some people are raised in families that hunt. Some have heard a logical argument for it at down point and are just parroting back what they heard (I.e. Myself originally). It's inprotant to be challenged so you can find those gaps in your reasoning or understanding, and hopefully do your own research as a result. If I were an interviewer, I'd like to see that the applicant has made a truly informed descision based on facts and their own beliefs and sense of morals and is able to back it up. For the same reason I'd ask someone about their feelings on euthanasia or somethig similar; I can just assume we're all on the same page or I can probe for more to see their reasoning and their personal moral boundaries. I thinking probing would tell me a lot more about the applicant in the end

 

[DVMDream]

I don't think this is true. In fact, based on personal experience, this isn't always true. I have known several people involved in the vet world who hunt or are in support of hunting--including myself--who have been misinformed on certain topics or have gaps in their reasoning when pressed. I think that's understandable! Some people are raised in families that hunt. Some have heard a logical argument for it at down point and are just parroting back what they heard (I.e. Myself originally). It's inprotant to be challenged so you can find those gaps in your reasoning or understanding, and hopefully do your own research as a result. If I were an interviewer, I'd like to see that the applicant has made a truly informed descision based on facts and their own beliefs and sense of morals and is able to back it up. For the same reason I'd ask someone about their feelings on euthanasia or somethig similar; I can just assume we're all on the same page or I can probe for more to see their reasoning and their personal moral boundaries. I thinking probing would tell me a lot more about the applicant in the end

Sure probing to see their understanding, I can understand that. Makes perfect sense to see what they know and what their experiences have taught them. But that isn't demonstrating critical thinking, in my opinion, which is what someone else was saying it does. That is just gathering information about what the applicant's current knowledge on the topic is, which is much different than critical thinking which makes you actually work through a situation and think on it and apply your experiences, knowledge, etc to that situation.

 

[geldedgoat]

Why is being devoted to animal rights in contradiction with being a vet?

Like sb247 said, there's a spectrum of animal rights, with some being more reasonable than others. At the extreme, you have something like the Animal Liberation Front. I believe it's this sort of ideology interviewers are interested in when they ask about the distinction between animal welfare and animal rights.

But that isn't demonstrating critical thinking, in my opinion, which is what someone else was saying it does.

How is pressing the ethical consistency of an applicant not a demonstration of critical thinking? Look back at the OP: he's worried that he won't be able to explain how he can juggle hunting and a desire to save animals. Sure, if you've got an applicant who's been raised on a pork farm and states in the application a desire to apply a DVM to food animal production, then questioning hunting is likely a wasted effort. But that's clearly not the experience of the OP or a large number of prospective vets, so jkate's post is a perfectly reasonable explanation for why raising the issue might be productive.

 

[DVMDream]

so jkate's post is a perfectly reasonable explanation for why raising the issue might be productive.

I didn't say it wouldn't be productive. I stated that, in my opinion, it does not demonstrate critical thinking, it just gathers information about what the applicant currently knows about hunting... Again, in my opinion (maybe bolding things will help you since you think everyone else needs words to be bolded to be able to read).

It is my opinion, you don't have to agree to it. But I don't think it is a way to demonstrate critical thinking, I never stated it was not productive.

 

[siker11]

Honestly I feel like you'd get more questions/concerns with the bolded statement than you would about hunting.

Ferrets are obligate carnivores. The natural diet of their wild ancestors consisted of whole small prey, meat, organs, bones, skin, feathers, and fur. No veggies, no fruits, nothing else but that.
Their digestive systems cannot handle anything else, Like all the diets and treats in the petsmart... Ever wonder why one smells so bad? Its cause of diet. You can walk in my house, and not even know i have them.

 

[pp9]

Ferrets are obligate carnivores. The natural diet of their wild ancestors consisted of whole small prey, meat, organs, bones, skin, feathers, and fur. No veggies, no fruits, nothing else but that.
Their digestive systems cannot handle anything else, Like all the diets and treats in the petsmart... Ever wonder why one smells so bad? Its cause of diet. You can walk in my house, and not even know i have them.

So are cats. I'm not going to get into anything specific because I don't want to imply that you are a bad pet owner. But with the way the pet food industry is going, more and more people are deciding to go the raw diet route, and more and more pets are seeing nutritional problems.

 

[WildZoo]

Ferrets are obligate carnivores. The natural diet of their wild ancestors consisted of whole small prey, meat, organs, bones, skin, feathers, and fur. No veggies, no fruits, nothing else but that.
Their digestive systems cannot handle anything else, Like all the diets and treats in the petsmart... Ever wonder why one smells so bad? Its cause of diet. You can walk in my house, and not even know i have them.

Did you just quote the ferret Wikipedia article?

Ferrets are obligate carnivores.[16] The natural diet of their wild ancestors consisted of whole small prey—i.e., meat, organs, bones, skin, feathers, and fur.

 

[pp9]

Did you just quote the ferret Wikipedia article?

Lol

 

[geldedgoat]

I didn't say it wouldn't be productive. I stated that, in my opinion, it does not demonstrate critical thinking, it just gathers information about what the applicant currently knows about hunting... Again, in my opinion (maybe bolding things will help you since you think everyone else needs words to be bolded to be able to read).

It is my opinion, you don't have to agree to it. But I don't think it is a way to demonstrate critical thinking, I never stated it was not productive.

Er, okay. This thread started with an innocent question, and I thought my reply was similarly innocent. I still don't understand why it was necessary to let this get so needlessly argumentative and confrontational... but it has, so I'm bowing out. You think the question about hunting is useless, fine. But this pre-vet student wanted to know if it will come up, so he should know that it might and in what context.

Enjoy the rest of thread and your day. 😕

 

[DVMDream]

Er, okay. This thread started with an innocent question, and I thought my reply was similarly innocent. I still don't understand why it was necessary to let this get so needlessly argumentative and confrontational... but it has, so I'm bowing out. You think the question about hunting is useless, fine. But this pre-vet student wanted to know if it will come up, so he should know that it might and in what context.

Enjoy the rest of thread and your day. 😕

Sorry, I'm not meaning to be confrontational, but I told you already bolding indicates yelling, it indicates you feel strongly about something and that you are emotionally charged about it, you will get responses back to you that maybe seem upset or angry because that is how people will take bolded words on the internet, whether you mean it that way or not. It might come up in an interview, I just disagree with how and why. I also disagree with the statement of showing consistency with ethics, it isn't unethical so there is no inconsistency. However, you are correct that the OP might need to anticipate a question about hunting, however the act of hunting won't be an issue.

The feeding raw diet to the ferrets however might be an issue.

 

[Trilt]

Ferrets have a lot of problems that many vets think are related to their diets. I'm no fan of raw diets for dogs/cats, but I'm much more comfortable with people feeding raw (or preferably, balanced freeze-dried raw) for their ferrets. I like the convenience of high protein/high fat kibble with my little guys, personally, but raw in ferrets is not nearly as contentious of a topic among small mammal vets as feeding dogs/cat raw is among small animal vets.

 

[DVMDream]

Ferrets have a lot of problems that many vets think are related to their diets. I'm no fan of raw diets for dogs/cats, but I'm much more comfortable with people feeding raw (or preferably, balanced freeze-dried raw) for their ferrets. I like the convenience of high protein/high fat kibble with my little guys, personally, but raw in ferrets is not nearly as contentious of a topic among small mammal vets as feed dogs/cat raw among small animal vets.

It is the raw that I disagree with... too much potential for bacterial contamination and to cause disease. Especially raw from animals that the owner themselves hunted.

 

[WildZoo]

Ferrets have a lot of problems that many vets think are related to their diets. I'm no fan of raw diets for dogs/cats, but I'm much more comfortable with people feeding raw (or preferably, balanced freeze-dried raw) for their ferrets. I like the convenience of high protein/high fat kibble with my little guys, personally, but raw in ferrets is not nearly as contentious of a topic among small mammal vets as feeding dogs/cat raw is among small animal vets.

Yeah, I just thought it was funny that what they said was almost word for word from Wikipedia 😀

 

[pp9]

Ferrets are obligate carnivores. The natural diet of their wild ancestors consisted of whole small prey, meat, organs, bones, skin, feathers, and fur. No veggies, no fruits, nothing else but that.
Their digestive systems cannot handle anything else, Like all the diets and treats in the petsmart... Ever wonder why one smells so bad? Its cause of diet. You can walk in my house, and not even know i have them.

Also, I decided to get more into this. Sorry. None of this should be new to you, though.

Ferrets are stinky because they have musk glands, not because of diet (although I'd imagine that diet allows for the musk to be produced). I didn't have to use Wikipedia for that one. They are of the family Mustelidae. Mustelidae. It's a natural odor and not something to flaunt when you don't have it. Parents of stinky ferrets are doing nothing wrong, even if they use store-bought food that you dislike. Depending on where you got your ferrets, they may have had their anal glands removed to begin with, which could explain the decrease in smell. The majority of ferret owners don't know that the procedure ever happened. Perhaps you just lucked out with your pets, and they just don't produce musk at the levels other ferrets do. Some dogs have anal glands that peel the paint. Others have anal glands that don't knock you off your feet (although they still aren't pleasant....).

I'm big on knowing the differences between "wild ancestors" and the animal you call your pet. My dog's ancestors were wolves. Do I go out and catch a rabbit to feed her? No. It wouldn't necessarily be a good source of nutrition for her. Plus my pet rabbit would be offended. Petsmart does stock junky food, but they also stock food that is perfectly acceptable for small mammals. You don't have to buy your ferret the candy coated treats. To be honest, the worst treats are down the hamster/bird aisles, not the ferret section. I'm no veterinarian, but I regularly scrutinize the aisles at Petsmart and haven't seen anything in the ferret section that is as bad as the pocket pet 'trail mix' foods.

I'm not going to try and sway your opinion, but here is a link from a veterinary school: http://cvm.msu.edu/hospital/service...cation/feeding-and-caring-for-your-pet-ferret.

 

[siker11]

Yes, i did quote wiki, easier than typing it myself. Sorry. But there are specific diets that i follow, and the bacterial issue, their digestive tracts are really short, so harder chance of bacterial overgrowth. (not saying impossible however) Its not like im just giving them raw food with out knowing what their nutritional needs are. Ya gotta know what your doing with it.

anyways, i understand people have different views on the raw vrs not, and thats ok. I only stated that fact for me using as much of my hunt as i can. It seems like we are really getting off topic here.. However, if you want to continue discussing this, you can PM me. I dont mind talking about it. 🙂 Getting different views, and speaking mine...

But back to the Hunting for vet school things...........

 

[WildZoo]

It is the raw that I disagree with... too much potential for bacterial contamination and to cause disease. Especially raw from animals that the owner themselves hunted.

Also a solid point. Especially since people do tend to cuddle their ferrets and let them run around.

Related: My landlady gave her dogs large pieces of raw rabbit the other day and let them eat it on the floor in the kitchen guess who doesn't walk around barefoot in the house anymore?

 

[siker11]

So ANYWAYs... I got the point with hunting and applying for vet schools. I appreciate your guys opinions. Thanks. If anyone has anything else in reference to that, feel free to post. Thanks!

 

[WildZoo]

Guise I think we're being chided for going slightly off topic 😛

 

[siker11]

Guise I think we're being chided for going slightly off topic 😛

Nope not chided.. But the topic that we went on is a bit controversial, and we could go in circles till we are all blue in the face, which isnt something that i would like to do. People have their views, i have mine. Ok not a big deal. I would just like to stay on the hunting vrs vet school topic, the reason i started the thread. No need to be rude for me wanting to get back to the point. Thanks.