Preclinical grades

[12loser12]

How important are preclinical grades? All I've heard is "less important than clinical grades" But when it comes to applying for competitive residencies, where do the M1 grades rank?

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[Sarikate]

I've been told by many, many physicians that your MS1 grades count for essentially zero when applying for a residency. That being said, if you're trying for something super-competitive, good grades would probably give you an edge. But 3rd year clerkships, board scores, and recommendations are the top three, I think.

 

[Law2Doc]

How important are preclinical grades? All I've heard is "less important than clinical grades" But when it comes to applying for competitive residencies, where do the M1 grades rank?

If you look at rankings of what is important, M1 grades are rather far down the list. Things like clinical year grades and evals, Step 1, research tend to be far more important. Away rotations, connections, recommendations, pull, tend to matter a ton in the process as well.
You could absolutely barely pass first year and still match into a very competitive residency if you excelled thereafter, and can end up noplace even with straight honors in that year, if you tail off thereafter, if that is what you are asking.
But bear in mind that first year is a building block year, and if you don't master that material, you may have a harder time doing well on Step 1 and subsequent years of med school.

 

[RxnMan]

Step score = f(studying for exam, studying for classes)

Why depend upon only one variable when you control both?

Here's some other resources:

What med students think

What directors of competitive residencies think

And the Match outcomes

 

[werd]

that "what med students think" article is a good one. for those who don't read it, it compares surveys of what med students think is important for residency to what program directors actually value. med students undervalue objective criteria such as board scores, honors during 3rd year, class rank, and aoa status, and overvalue subjective criteria such as letters of rec and personal statement.

in regard to the original question, grades in preclinical years are unimportant, but it's dangerous to slack during the first 2 years. as long as you don't repeat courses you're probably just fine. however, be warned that it's an uphill battle to ace your boards if you have a weak basic sci performance. it may also take you out of aoa running if you do poorly in the 1st 2 years. moreover, it can be tough to honor your rotations if you have a poor knowledge base when you walk onto the floor. while the grades themselves are unimportant, they have indirect ramifications for the important stuff.

 

[Terpskins99]

that "what med students think" article is a good one. for those who don't read it, it compares surveys of what med students think is important for residency to what program directors actually value. med students undervalue objective criteria such as board scores, honors during 3rd year, class rank, and aoa status, and overvalue subjective criteria such as letters of rec and personal statement.

I don't know if I'd label honors during 3rd year as "objective".

 

[OHMAN0125]

Your preclinical grades DO matter. They will ultimately help determine your class rank. So if you did poorly first 2 yrs then ur chance at being in the top 50% of your class is hindered unless you honor all your clerkships.
however, i've heard that there are some schools that don't rank their students. In that case your STEP1 score overrides everything else probably.

 

[Terpskins99]

...which explains why the grades don't matter compared to USMLE. A given residency program will be receiving applications from students who come from schools with all sorts of grading systems. Somebody with the top mark in all classes and a 220 step 1 is going to have a harder time than somebody who simply passed everything and hit the 250 mark. The whole point of a nationally standardized exam is to compare students at different schools while maintaining the same minimum standard to become a licensed physician regardless of location.

This is an overly generalized statement and a bit misleading.

Many competitive residencies believe that an applicant's work ethic, communication skills and willingness to be a team player are far more important than board scores. Often, this is reflected in the candidate's performance during rotations (read good grades). Just because someone does well on boards does not at all guarantee equal success in a clinical environment (this is one of the reasons why IMG's are having such a difficult time matching at many locations despite solid board scores... because of the lousy job previous IMG's did before them).

 

[achybrachy]

Your preclinical grades DO matter. They will ultimately help determine your class rank. So if you did poorly first 2 yrs then ur chance at being in the top 50% of your class is hindered unless you honor all your clerkships.
however, i've heard that there are some schools that don't rank their students. In that case your STEP1 score overrides everything else probably.

I've heard it put this way: your good preclinical grades have a very low chance of helping you in your residency application, but if they are low enough to catch someone's eye than they can certainly hurt you. Still though, small beans compared to Step 1, clinical grades, AOA, research, etc.

Of course, it's usually a moot point because students with really bad preclinical grades typically don't do particularly well on Step 1.

My school doesn't rank the class but I think they use Step 1 and preclinical grades primarily for AOA nominations. That's all speculation though, no one really knows how AOA is decided. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the phase of the moon too.

 

[Law2Doc]

I've heard it put this way: your good preclinical grades have a very low chance of helping you in your residency application, but if they are low enough to catch someone's eye than they can certainly hurt you. Still though, small beans compared to Step 1, clinical grades, AOA, research, etc.

Here's the way I've heard it. Preclinical grades are the "dirty little secret" of med school. They expect folks to work hard for great grades, but they barely matter when it comes down to it. But schools don't advertise this fact because if folks started to coast rather than go full tilt it possibly could translate to poor USMLE scores and unprepared students on away rotations embarrassing the school.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

There are basically three categories of of pre clinical grades.

A) Basically honor everything: they look at you and think you're a smart cookie. Another feather in your cap for residency.

B) Mostly passes, few honors, one or two repeats/retakes: Average student, can get into any residency.

C) Decent amount of retakes/repeats: Warning flags.

Most people are going to be in category B and that's just great. They only matter at the extremes for good or for bad.

 

[LJDHC05]

The honest answer is that none of us are Program Directors, and like everything you hear on SDN, it should be taken with a grain of salt.

If you apply to 20 different programs, you'll get 20 different answers as to what allows you to get an interview. The interview is going to get you further than anything else. But how much your grades matter depends on the competitiveness of the field you're applying to, what the PDs at your programs think is important in their residents and not very much else.

Everyone here makes the match seem like some magical process where a bolt of lightning comes down out of the sky and depending on the confluence of your application, personality and the will of the gods you get into some program. The bottom line is that you actually have control over a few things: your grades, your boards, your essay and your personality. Do your best in everything, figure out what you want to do and place yourself in a position to get into it. If you're all that worried about first year grades, chances are you're still in a position to do something about them...