PrePharm -- Quick Question

[Strutter]

I am in gr. 11. I'm a very intelligent student and pretty strong in math.

I plan on going to Kwantlen College for 30 credits of prepharmacy. Then move on the UBC to get my major in biology... I think it works that way.

http://www.kwantlen.ca/advising/courseplanning_professions_health_pharm.html

Look at the link for a sec. And answer these quick questions...

How long does it take to complete 30 credits? Is it really difficult to complete 30 credits at Kwantlen in a year, or should I spread it over a 2 year course? Please explain why or why not.

Yes, I would like to have a social life, too. Atleast 1 outing per 2 weeks or so since it's college.

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[tootoo30]

I am in gr. 11. I'm a very intelligent student and pretty strong in math.

I plan on going to Kwantlen College for 30 credits of prepharmacy. Then move on the UBC to get my major in biology... I think it works that way.

http://www.kwantlen.ca/advising/courseplanning_professions_health_pharm.html

Look at the link for a sec. And answer these quick questions...

How long does it take to complete 30 credits? Is it really difficult to complete 30 credits at Kwantlen in a year, or should I spread it over a 2 year course? Please explain why or why not.

Yes, I would like to have a social life, too. Atleast 1 outing per 2 weeks or so since it's college.

From my experience, it may be hard to finish it in a year only because some classes require other to be completed before you can register for the next class. Example, at the college that I am attending, I have to take Chemistry in this order, Gen. Chemistry 1, Gen Chemistry 2, Organic Chemistry 1 and then Organic Chemistry 2. So you see that's why it may be a problem to finish everything in a year.

As far as a social life, it all depends on what type of student you are, you may not need to study alot to get good grades, lord knows I do
HTH

 

[Strutter]

From my experience, it may be hard to finish it in a year only because some classes require other to be completed before you can register for the next class. Example, at the college that I am attending, I have to take Chemistry in this order, Gen. Chemistry 1, Gen Chemistry 2, Organic Chemistry 1 and then Organic Chemistry 2. So you see that's why it may be a problem to finish everything in a year.

As far as a social life, it all depends on what type of student you are, you may not need to study alot to get good grades, lord knows I do
HTH

Wow. Thanks for looking through all the courses at kwantlen, tootoo30. So what you are telling me is that I have to do 2 years college > Major at a university (hopefully not complete it) > PCAT > Pharmacy School (university).

That's a grand total of around 6 years or more (depending on major). :S Yikes!

All this is provided that I get a full application in and interviews and stuff like that.

Would you recommend I just get the good grades in high school now and just apply for a major in biology? So it'd be high school > major at a university > Pharmacy school (university).

That'd be a grand total of about 5 years or more (depending on major).

Also, if you don't mind me asking, what was your average in high school? And your GPA/PCAT (if you took it) now?

I'm in gr. 11, if it helps.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

30 credit isnt a lot. Most pre pharmacy cirrc. ranges from 18-21 credits a semester (two semester in a school year). Like the above poster said, the main problem is that a lot of classes have pre requisites. This means you can not go straight to organic chemistry without taking chemistry first.

No matter what you do, it is rare and unheard of for a student now to get a pharmD 5 years after graduating high school. You need at least 6 years. With that being said, if you can take some AP courses (in my opinion, you should just drop out of HS and get your ged as a HS diploma is a waste of time), apply to a community college and get all of your required credits with A's, go to summer school (for classes that needs pre requisite), work in a pharmacy while doing all of this, ask your professors, friends, boss for some LOR, and get really good pcat scores; you might be a good candidate for pharmacy school.

But then again. . . what is the rush. College is about enjoying your youth.

 

[Strutter]

30 credit isnt a lot. Most pre pharmacy cirrc. ranges from 18-21 credits a semester (two semester in a school year). Like the above poster said, the main problem is that a lot of classes have pre requisites. This means you can not go straight to organic chemistry without taking chemistry first.

No matter what you do, it is rare and unheard of for a student now to get a pharmD 5 years after graduating high school. You need at least 6 years. With that being said, if you can take some AP courses (in my opinion, you should just drop out of HS and get your ged as a HS diploma is a waste of time), apply to a community college and get all of your required credits with A's, go to summer school (for classes that needs pre requisite), work in a pharmacy while doing all of this, ask your professors, friends, boss for some LOR, and get really good pcat scores; you might be a good candidate for pharmacy school.

But then again. . . what is the rush. College is about enjoying your youth.

You make excelent points Aznfarmerboi. And do ya know what else? I, too, am azn! High five!

Anyway...

So what you're telling me is that 30 credits is easy to complete in college (this is prepharm). What you're also telling me is that I should apply to summer school right off the bat after I complete gr. 12 (I am in gr. 11 now), if I read it correctly. Let me know if I misunderstood you.

About AP classes. There is a calculus class that I can take in gr. 12. People get around 60% there and they are all smart people. I could consider taking it.

That being said, I have a few more quick questions.

1. Do you get to choose your professors in college?

2. If I take calculus in gr. 12 (an AP class), would university average it toward my GPA, too? Or exclude it?

3. If I take summer school courses for college -- which I might -- would the university I would be applying for Pharm school, look at that, too? Or would they exclude it.

4. Where jobs would they offer for guys like me at pharmacys? Pharm tech? Probably...

Thanks.

 

[tootoo30]

You may also want to look into the colleges that have the 0+6 programs, that way you are guaranteed a seat in pharmacy school once you finish your prerequisites. I'm not sure which schools offer the program but they are out there. Do a search on the forum and you should find all the information that you need.

HTH

 

[AngelaCL]

Definitely look into schools with 0+6 programs - once you get accepted into the prepharmacy program, you are guaranteed a spot in the professional school as long as you meet minimum requirements.

15 credits a semester is nothing - that's the absolute minimum I ever took in college. However, most pharmacy schools require more than 30 credits - you really need a 2 year course load.

I'd say it's reasonable to expect to take:
Calculus 6-8 credits
Gen Bio 8 credits
Anatomy/Physiology 8 credits
Gen Chem 8 credits
Orgo 8 credits
Physics 4
English 3-8
Economy 3
Stats 3
Microbio 4
So that's right around 60 credits. Some schools will have more requirements; some less.

So yes, 30 credits is easy to do in a year. It's not enough to get into pharmacy school. And AP credits are a great way to earn credit without paying for a class/taking the time - it won't figure into your GPA though.

Do shadowing and volunteer work now - you'll be happy you did later. And get to know at least one of your math/science professors so they can write a letter of recommendation.

 

[Strutter]

Definitely look into schools with 0+6 programs - once you get accepted into the prepharmacy program, you are guaranteed a spot in the professional school as long as you meet minimum requirements.

15 credits a semester is nothing - that's the absolute minimum I ever took in college. However, most pharmacy schools require more than 30 credits - you really need a 2 year course load.

I'd say it's reasonable to expect to take:
Calculus 6-8 credits
Gen Bio 8 credits
Anatomy/Physiology 8 credits
Gen Chem 8 credits
Orgo 8 credits
Physics 4
English 3-8
Economy 3
Stats 3
Microbio 4
So that's right around 60 credits. Some schools will have more requirements; some less.

So yes, 30 credits is easy to do in a year. It's not enough to get into pharmacy school. And AP credits are a great way to earn credit without paying for a class/taking the time - it won't figure into your GPA though.

Do shadowing and volunteer work now - you'll be happy you did later. And get to know at least one of your math/science professors so they can write a letter of recommendation.

I have done volunteer work (atleast 24 hrs) at a hospital from elementary to high school. I am remembered there and I have a reputation there (since my mom's a nurse).

As for shadow work, what are some examples that I could do now? I am in gr. 11.


http://www.kwantlen.ca/advising/courseplanning_professions_health_pharm.html

Could I just transfer after taking 30 credits at Kwantlen College? Look at the link and the charts... It should help clear up any misunderstandings (if any).

My path that I'm thinking of is:

1. Kwantlen College - Take 30 credits. (This will serve as an "introduction" to UBC's major in biology program thing). This takes ONE year.
2. Apply to UBC to get a major in biology.
3. Take the major in biology courses at UBC. This will take ONE (hopefully) to how many years I need. Gotta get it done ASAP. I will aim for one year.
4. Take the PCAT (hopefully once).
5. Apply to UBC's Pharmacy program to get my bachelors. This will take FOUR years total.

So it's:

Kwantlen College (1 year) > Major in biology at UBC (1 year - ?) > PCAT > Get my bachelors of pharmacy at UBC (4 years).

That's 6 years total.

Does anybody have any suggestions as to how I can improve this transition plan?

This plan starts right after I graduate high school in gr. 12. I'm in gr. 11 right now.

Thanks for replying...

S

 

[UES Girl]

I haven't looked at the link you provided but how in the world are you going to finish 30 credits in one year ? It's not that it is impossible - it's quite easy it you take GE classes - but how are going to finish all your pharmacy pre-reqs in one year ? All pre-reqs require "pre-reqs" to them, like ochem required general chem, physics requires calculus, physiology requires two semesters of general biology with lab. So I don't know which credits your are planning to take - but if you are talking about 30 credits of pharmacy pre-reqs finishig them up in one year is not ambitious it's almost urealistic.

 

[AngelaCL]

He is not saying that he's going to finish all his pharmacy prereqs in one year.

What's so great about Kwantlen College? Why not just do both undergrad pre-pharm years at the same school?

 

[parabolic]

Well, it does seem possible to do it in a year, since you're going for a B.Sc Pharm in Canada, not a PharmD in the US. (Not to say one is better than the other, just that they are different things.)

From UBC's website:
http://www.pharmacy.ubc.ca/undergraduate_programs/application.html

Non-UBC applicants without these specific UBC courses need to present a full year each (i.e. 2 semesters) of:

First-year university Biology with a lab*
First-year university Chemistry with a lab
First-year university English (for which UBC gives transfer credit)
First-year university Calculus, and
First-year university Physics with a lab. Or, also acceptable, is a one-semester Physics course that has a prerequisite requirement of PHYS 12, and that includes a lab.

​

And a minimum PCAT score of 65%. Very doable. I'm not going to do any more research for you than that, but yes you should be able to do this in a year. It's basically five classes per semester (15 credits). I don't know if your college of choice offers all those classes, but if they do, then take them and that should be your only pre-pharm year.* But look over the admissions website for UBC's pharmacy program to make sure. Best of luck to you.

* Clarification: As in, you do the 30 credits at Kwantlen College and then apply directly to UBC's pharmacy school. You don't have to apply to a biology program first before going into pharmacy.

 

[Strutter]

He is not saying that he's going to finish all his pharmacy prereqs in one year.

What's so great about Kwantlen College? Why not just do both undergrad pre-pharm years at the same school?

I'll post my thoughts...

The reason why I THINK I should go to KC is to prepare me with the transition to university. If I go to to uni right off the bat after high school, I COULD -- note how I said "could" -- be overwhelmed. And Kwantlen's courses (the ones in the link) will help me prepare for the transition to uni and what I'll be studying for a major in biology.

So therefore, I can get a higher GPA and become more focused.

I do not know what you mean by the second question. Could you describe to me what you mean?

 

[Strutter]

Well, it does seem possible to do it in a year, since you're going for a B.Sc Pharm in Canada, not a PharmD in the US. (Not to say one is better than the other, just that they are different things.)

From UBC's website:
http://www.pharmacy.ubc.ca/undergraduate_programs/application.html


Non-UBC applicants without these specific UBC courses need to present a full year each (i.e. 2 semesters) of:

First-year university Biology with a lab*​

First-year university Chemistry with a lab ​

First-year university English (for which UBC gives transfer credit)​

First-year university Calculus, and​

First-year university Physics with a lab. Or, also acceptable, is a one-semester Physics course that has a prerequisite requirement of PHYS 12, and that includes a lab. ​

And a minimum PCAT score of 65%. Very doable. I'm not going to do any more research for you than that, but yes you should be able to do this in a year. It's basically five classes per semester (15 credits). I don't know if your college of choice offers all those classes, but if they do, then take them and that should be your only pre-pharm year. But look over the admissions website for UBC's pharmacy program to make sure. Best of luck to you.

Your post was very informative, parabolic.

The difference between Kwantlen College's and UBC's major in biology courses is that:

1. There is a 1 in front of the courses.

eg. Eng 1101 (College) . Eng 101 (university).
or
Bio 1102 (made it up - college). Bio 102.

So I'm thinking that if I take Eng 1101, then apply to university to take the prerequisitives for the PCAT and pharm school (which is one year bio), taking college first should help with my studies, and especially my transition.

Simply put: 1. ONE YEAR - College (10 courses) > 2. ONE - ? YEAR(S) Major in Biology -- just enough to get me to pharm school and through the pcats.

I think that it would be hard for me to adapt to the workload right off the bat from high school if I take the High school > University path.



So i'd be taking Eng 1101, Bio 1102, etc. for ONE year in college. Then in the next, I'd take Eng 101, Bio 102, etc. (all the prerequisites for PCAT and pharm school).

Do you recommend this path I am describing - or should I just go to university to study for my major in biology and take all prerequisite courses for the PCAT and pharm school after high school?

 

[michelle_is_me]

it's definitely possible to finish 30 credits in 1 yr.

however, i don't know how ur gonna take ur PCAT in time. I think the last date you have to take your PCAT is by January. Which will be the second term of your first year.... So, by the time you've taken your pcat.... u've only finished first semester of Bio + Calc + basic general chem.. etc

those courses alone are not going to help you cover the entire exam.



http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=360065

please do some reading and research of past UBC threads + UBC website ... (there IS an FAQ section on the UBC pharm site) before u keep making new threads about every question that you have in mind. This is at least the 3rd thread u've made asking ppl if u should go to kwantlen... when most ppl on the forum are american students and have a very diff system and have no idea what Kwantlen is.


Btw, 24 hrs in a hospital is a start, but it's hardly worth mentioning.. most ppl have at least a year of volunteering/work experience.

 

[AngelaCL]

Yeah 24 hours isn't a whole lot. Did you volunteer in the pharmacy at all?

Okay, I think our confusion was over the college/university thing. In the United States we don't refer to them as different things. I'm guessing the program you are talking about is similar to a community college?

 

[parabolic]

So i'd be taking Eng 1101, Bio 1102, etc. for ONE year in college. Then in the next, I'd take Eng 101, Bio 102, etc. (all the prerequisites for PCAT and pharm school).

At least in the US (and probably in Canada, too), the first year at a college is equivalent to the first year at a university. So Kwantlen's Eng 1101 would be the same class as UBC's Eng 101. There is no reason to take the same class twice! You will get credit for completing the class at Kwantlen, even though it is a college and not a university. At least, that is my understanding from looking at UBC's website.

However, michelle_is_me makes a great point: although you can easily finish all the required pre-pharmacy courses in one year, those courses will not adequately prepare you to take the PCAT. For example, the PCAT's chemistry section is ~50% organic chemistry, which is not covered by your pre-requisites. A 50% in the chemistry section is less than the 65% required by UBC, so do the math. You should definitely take O-Chem before you try the PCAT, which could tack on an extra year.

 

[Strutter]

it's definitely possible to finish 30 credits in 1 yr.

however, i don't know how ur gonna take ur PCAT in time. I think the last date you have to take your PCAT is by January. Which will be the second term of your first year.... So, by the time you've taken your pcat.... u've only finished first semester of Bio + Calc + basic general chem.. etc

those courses alone are not going to help you cover the entire exam.



http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=360065

please do some reading and research of past UBC threads + UBC website ... (there IS an FAQ section on the UBC pharm site) before u keep making new threads about every question that you have in mind. This is at least the 3rd thread u've made asking ppl if u should go to kwantlen... when most ppl on the forum are american students and have a very diff system and have no idea what Kwantlen is.


Btw, 24 hrs in a hospital is a start, but it's hardly worth mentioning.. most ppl have at least a year of volunteering/work experience.

I agree with you, Michelle. Researching is a must. And I have done a substancial amount of research. I've done about 1 hour of research for atleast 3 months DAILY. I'm almost done my research, too (thanks to sdn). It just boils down to these final questions that I ask on the threads. I really need a strong hold of my transition plan if I would like to maximize my success.

http://harcourtassessment.com/haiwe...t/subpages/applicationsubmissiondeadlines.htm

There is PCAT exams in july and in august, too. So I should be fine.

You mention that the courses (1 year of majoring in bio at UBC - courses are listed in the site I mentioned at the kwantlen site on the left side, and 1 year of college) will not be sufficient enough for the PCAT.

What do you propose if the first year of majoring in bio and 1 year of kwantlen (before first year of major of bio) are not sufficient enough for the PCAT?

 

[Strutter]

Yeah 24 hours isn't a whole lot. Did you volunteer in the pharmacy at all?

Nope. Guess I'll have to ask if I could volunteer as a pharmacist!

Oh wait. I need my liscence ...

 

[michelle_is_me]

I agree with you, Michelle. Researching is a must. And I have done a substancial amount of research. I've done about 1 hour of research for atleast 3 months DAILY. I'm almost done my research, too (thanks to sdn). It just boils down to these final questions that I ask on the threads. I really need a strong hold of my transition plan if I would like to maximize my success.

http://harcourtassessment.com/haiwe...t/subpages/applicationsubmissiondeadlines.htm

There is PCAT exams in july and in august, too. So I should be fine.

You mention that the courses (1 year of majoring in bio at UBC - courses are listed in the site I mentioned at the kwantlen site on the left side, and 1 year of college) will not be sufficient enough for the PCAT.

What do you propose if the first year of majoring in bio and 1 year of kwantlen (before first year of major of bio) are not sufficient enough for the PCAT?

If you want to just do 1 yr of pre-reqs.. then get into UBC pharm RIGHT AWAY in ur 2nd year... u have to have ur PCAT done by latest March (or Jan) I can't remmber which...but definitely one of them. The PCAT in August is wayyy to late for that year's admission.

the first year courses from Kwantlen WILL be mostly sufficient for PCAT (altho some second year organic chem is very useful too)... however they are sufficient once u've completed them........BUT, if u have to do the Jan/March PCAT... u wont be done all those courses b4 u write ur PCAT = hard to do well on the PCAT

for example.. ur in gr 11 right now... so u'll b entering Kwantlen in Sept 2009:

Sept 2009: Start Kwantlen 1st term
Dec 2009: Finish term 1 in Kwantlen.. by then u prob have taken Bio I, Chem I, Math I... etc
Jan 2010: Term 2 starts
Jan 2010: u write your PCAT... BUT by this time u're still not done ur Bio II, Chem II... Math II..........
April 2010: term 2 ends... this is wen u're done all ur first year science courses and by then u're much more prepped for the PCAT... but if u write the PCAT after this term ends.. u will NOT make the Sept 2010 entrance into the UBC program.

How does UBC expect ppl to write a PCAT b4 they're even done the courses? beats me.

now there are some solutions to this problem:
1. study ahead on ur own .. which is going to be pretty tough b/c u'll be pretty overwhelmed from school
2. pay Kaplan and join a PCAT review class... expensive and im not even sure how helpful they r
3. delay another year and apply to UBC pharm at the end of ur 2nd yr

the truth is... not a lot of the ppl in the pharm program actually gets in right after 1st yr... most ppl have finished 2..3 and some even have degrees under their belt

the best way to find out anything is directly thru UBC pharm themselves. Kwantlen will sugarcoat the process and make it seem a lot easier than it is, b/c they want ur money and they want u there in their pre-pharm program. For example, on Kwantlen's website it says '65%min PCAT is required to apply'.. but they didn't even say how competitive it actually gets.


btw.. there is no such thing as 'first yr majoring in bio' at ubc. Everybody enters the faculty of science as general science students.. and they're taking classes similar if not identical to the kwantlen pre-pharm classes...we then declare our major at 2nd year... so yes, if u don't get into ubc pharm.. u can use the same classes towards ur Biology degree.


last but not least:
http://www.pharmacy.ubc.ca/undergraduate_programs/FAQ.html