Debating a PharmD

[morgan97]

I’ve been in a little conundrum lately trying to figure out where to take my life/career, and have been considering pharmacy, but would love to get input from someone who is a pharmacist/going through pharm school.

I received my bachelors degree in kinesiology in 2019, and am pursuing a masters in public health right now. I have never had a specific interest in health, but have been generally interested in the healthcare field for a while, especially after I took anatomy and physiology. I fell in LOVE with that class and knew something in the medical field would be up my alley.

After I graduated, I worked as a personal trainer and PT technician and honestly hated both of those jobs. Tbh, I got much anxiety having to work one on one with people and ended up quitting both of those jobs. Because of this, I figured I wouldn’t be able to pursue a career in healthcare because the majority of them you work one on one with individuals. I just love medicine and am trying to find a career that suits me but I really don’t want to “take care of patients.”

I worked for a free clinic for about a year in undergrad which sparked my interest in pharmacy. I was beginning to gain some insight on how poverty and medical coverage are correlated. Many of the people whom I took their BP, cholesterol screenings, HR, etc, could not afford medications, insurance and such. This got me interested in medicine and pharmacy, but I have been hesitant to dip a toe fully in the pond just in case it’s not exactly what I think it is.

With that said, does anyone have advice on where I should go to learn more About the career, or if it might be something I would be interested in? I really really do enjoy school, so attending a 4 year PharmD program is not “scary” to me. The debt is going to be insane, I understand, but I’m not hesitant about any sort of schooling I would need. TIA!

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[BC_89]

I’ve been in a little conundrum lately trying to figure out where to take my life/career, and have been considering pharmacy, but would love to get input from someone who is a pharmacist/going through pharm school.

I received my bachelors degree in kinesiology in 2019, and am pursuing a masters in public health right now. I have never had a specific interest in health, but have been generally interested in the healthcare field for a while, especially after I took anatomy and physiology. I fell in LOVE with that class and knew something in the medical field would be up my alley.

After I graduated, I worked as a personal trainer and PT technician and honestly hated both of those jobs. Tbh, I got much anxiety having to work one on one with people and ended up quitting both of those jobs. Because of this, I figured I wouldn’t be able to pursue a career in healthcare because the majority of them you work one on one with individuals. I just love medicine and am trying to find a career that suits me but I really don’t want to “take care of patients.”

I worked for a free clinic for about a year in undergrad which sparked my interest in pharmacy. I was beginning to gain some insight on how poverty and medical coverage are correlated. Many of the people whom I took their BP, cholesterol screenings, HR, etc, could not afford medications, insurance and such. This got me interested in medicine and pharmacy, but I have been hesitant to dip a toe fully in the pond just in case it’s not exactly what I think it is.

With that said, does anyone have advice on where I should go to learn more About the career, or if it might be something I would be interested in? I really really do enjoy school, so attending a 4 year PharmD program is not “scary” to me. The debt is going to be insane, I understand, but I’m not hesitant about any sort of schooling I would need. TIA!

1) Pay for a background check at your local police office / court house and submit it to the state board of pharmacy as per required for a tech license (unless they now have a minimum requirement of being CPhT certified of which case study a CPhT book and take the exam). If you have a bachelors, you can easily pass the certification.

2) After step one, work as a technician. By doing so you will learn the details of how insurance billing(s) work for all types of patients having different types of coverage. More importantly, you will see the fast tempo of what it is like being in a retail/community pharmacy which consists of most of the jobs right now (excluding hospital and compounding tech sites as those require more background / experience over time).

3) After 6 months of working with patients and pharmacists, you'll understand a bit more about company metrics and the backbone of how pharmacy works.

Look up Bureau of Labor Statistics and see what the Job Outlook is for pharmacists then check out our linked sub-forum/sticky: Job Market & Job Saturation: Is Pharmacy Worth it? Here's What You Need to Know

Work as a tech, experience it yourself, then see if the environment and workflow is worth the opportunity cost of school and student debt. I am currently a student and have worked with some years as a tech (civilian and military) and am coming upon my final academic year of bookwork before full time rotations. The schooling can be demanding but doable. The balance of my current education and work is somewhat stressful but I find relief in knowing my education and housing is 100% covered by a specific VA program I am currently utilizing to graduate debt free.

That said, if I had to do this again with no experience, 200k in student loans with a job outlook not keeping up with inflation, I'd be looking elsewhere. Caveat Emptor

 

[Marzapan]

I’ve been in a little conundrum lately trying to figure out where to take my life/career, and have been considering pharmacy, but would love to get input from someone who is a pharmacist/going through pharm school.

I received my bachelors degree in kinesiology in 2019, and am pursuing a masters in public health right now. I have never had a specific interest in health, but have been generally interested in the healthcare field for a while, especially after I took anatomy and physiology. I fell in LOVE with that class and knew something in the medical field would be up my alley.

After I graduated, I worked as a personal trainer and PT technician and honestly hated both of those jobs. Tbh, I got much anxiety having to work one on one with people and ended up quitting both of those jobs. Because of this, I figured I wouldn’t be able to pursue a career in healthcare because the majority of them you work one on one with individuals. I just love medicine and am trying to find a career that suits me but I really don’t want to “take care of patients.”

I worked for a free clinic for about a year in undergrad which sparked my interest in pharmacy. I was beginning to gain some insight on how poverty and medical coverage are correlated. Many of the people whom I took their BP, cholesterol screenings, HR, etc, could not afford medications, insurance and such. This got me interested in medicine and pharmacy, but I have been hesitant to dip a toe fully in the pond just in case it’s not exactly what I think it is.

With that said, does anyone have advice on where I should go to learn more About the career, or if it might be something I would be interested in? I really really do enjoy school, so attending a 4 year PharmD program is not “scary” to me. The debt is going to be insane, I understand, but I’m not hesitant about any sort of schooling I would need. TIA!

Not sure what your title means but the one thing I would recommend you NOT debate a PharmD on is whether you should go to pharmacy school (as in don't argue or keep shopping around until you hear what you like when everyone tells you no).

 

[Xenophylia]

Right now, you do NOT want to do pharmacy. No jobs. No respect. $$$ is going down and soon won't be worth the HIGH cost of the degree. Most pharmacies are downsizing. There are plenty of other healthcare careers which will be more satisfying with the same (or less) education. Nothing is going to be better by the time you would graduate. I would think ten minutes browsing these forums would be enough to settle your "debate".

 

[Marzapan]

Right now, you do NOT want to do pharmacy. No jobs. No respect. $$$ is going down and soon won't be worth the HIGH cost of the degree. Most pharmacies are downsizing. There are plenty of other healthcare careers which will be more satisfying with the same (or less) education. Nothing is going to be better by the time you would graduate. I would think ten minutes browsing these forums would be enough to settle your "debate".

Correction: pharmacy hasn't been worth the high cost of the degree for years now. Just look up "top 5 worst ROI degrees" or "top 5 worst debt to income ratio jobs" and pharmacy is on those lists...

 

[LFA20]

What about dentistry?

 

[MatCauthon]

pa seems likes the best bang for the buck. especially with the more lucrative specialties

 

[Kenshin_Med]

What about dentistry?

Look into AA

 

[Hels2007]

Why not just look for a job with an MPH? There are opportunities from pharma to academia to government to some large hospital systems. While I understand temptation of hiding at school from the demands of the real world and having to earn your living, it can't last forever. Why not give MPH a try? Hopefully, there was a reason you actually went for that degree beyond "I didn't want to go look for a job and this was a program that offered me a spot"?

 

[PharmtoCS]

With that said, does anyone have advice on where I should go to learn more About the career, or if it might be something I would be interested in? I really really do enjoy school, so attending a 4 year PharmD program is not “scary” to me. The debt is going to be insane, I understand, but I’m not hesitant about any sort of schooling I would need. TIA!

The debt combined with the falling salaries (if you can even get a job) in the profession should be scary to you. Don't go to pharmacy school.

 

[DagS132]

Clinical lab scientist is a good healthcare field career as well. You don't have to interact with patients but you are responsible for diagnoses based on blood samples.

 

[LFA20]

Look into AA

what do you mean?

 

[Ladyg228]

Seen tons of posting for nursing jobs

 

[Pharmakon480]

1) Pay for a background check at your local police office / court house and submit it to the state board of pharmacy as per required for a tech license (unless they now have a minimum requirement of being CPhT certified of which case study a CPhT book and take the exam). If you have a bachelors, you can easily pass the certification.

2) After step one, work as a technician. By doing so you will learn the details of how insurance billing(s) work for all types of patients having different types of coverage. More importantly, you will see the fast tempo of what it is like being in a retail/community pharmacy which consists of most of the jobs right now (excluding hospital and compounding tech sites as those require more background / experience over time).

3) After 6 months of working with patients and pharmacists, you'll understand a bit more about company metrics and the backbone of how pharmacy works.

Look up Bureau of Labor Statistics and see what the Job Outlook is for pharmacists then check out our linked sub-forum/sticky: Job Market & Job Saturation: Is Pharmacy Worth it? Here's What You Need to Know

Work as a tech, experience it yourself, then see if the environment and workflow is worth the opportunity cost of school and student debt. I am currently a student and have worked with some years as a tech (civilian and military) and am coming upon my final academic year of bookwork before full time rotations. The schooling can be demanding but doable. The balance of my current education and work is somewhat stressful but I find relief in knowing my education and housing is 100% covered by a specific VA program I am currently utilizing to graduate debt free.

That said, if I had to do this again with no experience, 200k in student loans with a job outlook not keeping up with inflation, I'd be looking elsewhere. Caveat Emptor

Having experience in pharmacy is crucial before deciding to do pharmacy school. It is extremely important I'd say. Though, it is important, it is also only part of the equation. I was a pharmacy tech and pharmacy intern for a total of 3 years combined before I became a pharmacist and I will tell you, the anxiety/stress that I had from working retail as a tech is nowhere near the level I experience as a pharmacist, it's just not even close. I'd put the anxiety/stress at 4 or 5 times higher than what I had as a tech. It is unreasonable sometimes. Which is why it is absolutely necessary that anybody trying to go into pharmacy get some real life pharmacy experience, ideally at retail which is where most of the jobs are.

I will give you some perspective, and this is mainly for retail pharmacy which is where I work, I graduated in 2018 and I'm already contemplating the possibility of a change in jobs even if that means a lower income. As long as I don't have to deal with this efhing sheaaat, I'm more than willing to make the change. If it wasn't for the fact that I have student loans, I would've most likely quit already. It is that bad with corporate and their impossible to meet demands on a daily basis. I never had this much stress in my life, not in school, biochemistry undergrad or pharmacy school which was very demanding and at that time I thought that was stressful, not even comparable. This is another level. This is stress/anxiety on steroids to put on perspective. I don't say this because I want to be mean or anything, I just want to make point that no one really told me as a tech. I would not have done pharmacy if i had known it was like this and do not mention any of the unicorn jobs cause out of more than 200 pharmacist I know from school, maybe 2 have such jobs and they had to do a pharmacy residency in order to get those jobs.

 

[mentos]

If you don't want to "take care of patients" then don't go into healthcare.

Also stay far away from pharmacy unless you want $250,000 in debt with no job.

 

[ldiot]

When I started pharmacy school 5 years ago starting pay was $62/hour. Buy the time I graduated my classmates were accepting jobs for $47/hour, many of them working part time. This year it's even lower. Some of them went back to medical school.

I was lucky enough to get a full time job working 38 hours a week, working understaffed for a boss who calls and texts pharmacists on a daily basis to push business metrics. Rude and nasty customers, today I was called a son of a bitch by one guy and 2 hours later a bastard by another guy. One because of the price of a drug, another because the doctor didn't call in refills. Both things totally out of my control. It's a daily thing. I'm apparently supposed to be the doctor's secretary and an insurance agent too.

About half of my class decided they would do a residency and work in the hospital to avoid all of this, so they weren't concerned about it. Only half of them got a residency, and of the ones who finished their residency of half of them found the job they wanted afterwords.

I'm actually really good at my job, I'm not miserable but I don't like it either. I imagine life really is miserable for the ones who aren't good at their job or planned to be in the hospital instead.

And if you want to help patients, forget about it. They want their prescription FAST and CHEAP. That's all that matters to most of them. They don't want counseled, they want you to lower the price because $10 is too much. They want their hydrocodone early. They want you to call their doctor when they are out of refills, because it's too much work for them. You found a drug interaction that could kill them? They don't care, they want to know how much longer until you fix it because they seen the missed call from you and drove 20 minutes to the pharmacy without listening to your message.

Anyways good luck to you with whatever you decide.

 

[Marzapan]

When I started pharmacy school 5 years ago starting pay was $62/hour. Buy the time I graduated my classmates were accepting jobs for $47/hour, many of them working part time. This year it's even lower. Some of them went back to medical school.

I was lucky enough to get a full time job working 38 hours a week, working understaffed for a boss who calls and texts pharmacists on a daily basis to push business metrics. Rude and nasty customers, today I was called a son of a bitch by one guy and 2 hours later a bastard by another guy. One because of the price of a drug, another because the doctor didn't call in refills. Both things totally out of my control. It's a daily thing. I'm apparently supposed to be the doctor's secretary and an insurance agent too.

About half of my class decided they would do a residency and work in the hospital to avoid all of this, so they weren't concerned about it. Only half of them got a residency, and of the ones who finished their residency of half of them found the job they wanted afterwords.

I'm actually really good at my job, I'm not miserable but I don't like it either. I imagine life really is miserable for the ones who aren't good at their job or planned to be in the hospital instead.

And if you want to help patients, forget about it. They want their prescription FAST and CHEAP. That's all that matters to most of them. They don't want counseled, they want you to lower the price because $10 is too much. They want their hydrocodone early. They want you to call their doctor when they are out of refills, because it's too much work for them. You found a drug interaction that could kill them? They don't care, they want to know how much longer until you fix it because they seen the missed call from you and drove 20 minutes to the pharmacy without listening to your message.

Anyways good luck to you with whatever you decide.

Consumers will pay top dollar to see a good doctor or lawyer. But nobody knows who their pharmacist is, let alone what they do because pharmacy is not a merit-based profession. It doesn't matter if you went to the #1 pharmacy school or #140 pharmacy school when all that matters is who counts the pills the fastest and gives the patient the least hassle. How is any of this a surprise?

 

[MilknCheerios]

Consumers will pay top dollar to see a good doctor or lawyer. But nobody knows who their pharmacist is, let alone what they do because pharmacy is not a merit-based profession. It doesn't matter if you went to the #1 pharmacy school or #140 pharmacy school when all that matters is who counts the pills the fastest and gives the patient the least hassle. How is any of this a surprise?

Some consumers will shell out top dollar in certain situations, yes, but I'm willing to bet that a considerable amount of individuals will see a professional who is the least expensive and prompt. Hence, telemedicine, urgent care, and minute clinics have popped up. If you have say a sinus infection, are you really going to make an appointment to see your primary care physician?

Corporate pharmacy is merit-based, if you define it as based on hitting metrics in a variety of categories (customer service, inventory, payroll, phone times, etc). I have had nurses, doctors, and patients thank me for catching a drug allergy, drug interaction, and recommending less expensive alternatives. In the retail setting, I have had patients praise my team for their speed in getting their prescription ready. My colleagues in other settings probably receive similar praise.

So, while I do have a different perspective on a few things, I do concur that the pharmacy school you attended is about as important as which high school your attended. It's just another tick on the checklist.

 

[Marzapan]

Some consumers will shell out top dollar in certain situations, yes, but I'm willing to bet that a considerable amount of individuals will see a professional who is the least expensive and prompt. Hence, telemedicine, urgent care, and minute clinics have popped up. If you have say a sinus infection, are you really going to make an appointment to see your primary care physician?

Corporate pharmacy is merit-based, if you define it as based on hitting metrics in a variety of categories (customer service, inventory, payroll, phone times, etc). I have had nurses, doctors, and patients thank me for catching a drug allergy, drug interaction, and recommending less expensive alternatives. In the retail setting, I have had patients praise my team for their speed in getting their prescription ready. My colleagues in other settings probably receive similar praise.

So, while I do have a different perspective on a few things, I do concur that the pharmacy school you attended is about as important as which high school your attended. It's just another tick on the checklist.

A "merit-based" profession means a profession where job opportunities and career advancement is based on academic/scholastic achievements, not through "networking," "interviewing well" or things of the such which encapsulates pharmacy. Your definition of "merit-based" is a misnomer because what you are describing is simply a way to measure performance and how to define success for a job - some employers use metrics, some use impact on the bottom line, etc. so you are talking about something else entirely. If pharmacy is merit-based because "impressive metrics will impress people," then driving uber is also a "merit-based" profession because your "metric" is your star rating and you can get career advancement through killing your metrics (which I guess means being matched more frequently to riders) which doesn't make any sense.

An example of a real merit-based profession is medicine, where (especially if you want to work in an in-demand subspeciality):

-You need to have a high enough MCAT score to even get into medical school
-You will need to have high enough STEP1/2 and SHELF exam scores from M1-M4 years to be competitive and not "weeded out" from certain specialties
-There are clearly "elite" residency programs that set you up to do whatever you want in your field the future because the folks who work there are seen (not just by other hospital/health systems but also by the private sector) as thought leaders in the field
-Did I mention that the undergrad you went to and your GPA/extracurriculars plays a huge part into which med schools will accept you? And which med school you went to plays a huge role in what internships/ scholarships/ research experiences you can get as a med student? And which med school you went to also plays a huge role in what residencies you will actually be competitive for? This phenomenon is not present in pharmacy.

 

[El-Rami]

Why not just look for a job with an MPH? There are opportunities from pharma to academia to government to some large hospital systems. While I understand temptation of hiding at school from the demands of the real world and having to earn your living, it can't last forever. Why not give MPH a try? Hopefully, there was a reason you actually went for that degree beyond "I didn't want to go look for a job and this was a program that offered me a spot"?

MPH is a wonderful career... if you like earning 40-50k/year. It's also a fairly saturated degree from what I understand. They are a dime a dozen.

Someone mentioned AA. You'll probably have to use Alcoholics Anonymous if you go into pharmacy school after listening to the shills.

 

[deleted562805]

Clinical lab scientist is a good healthcare field career as well. You don't have to interact with patients but you are responsible for diagnoses based on blood samples.

Plus it is not as structured. There are hospitals offering Lab scientist programs and take students who have done bachelors in any science

 

[deleted562805]

MPH is a wonderful career... if you like earning 40-50k/year. It's also a fairly saturated degree from what I understand. They are a dime a dozen.

Someone mentioned AA. You'll probably have to use Alcoholics Anonymous if you go into pharmacy school after listening to the shills.

MPH is useless if it is not from Ivy League, just like MBA and Law. I know two colleagues in pharmacy school who did MPH online course. One ended up working in Walmart as a staff pharmacist in rural Alabama and the other did a residency at a new emerging program and now works as a ER pharmacist. They would have gotten those jobs without a MPH

 

[FoodstampPharmacist]

The debt combined with the falling salaries (if you can even get a job) in the profession should be scary to you. Don't go to pharmacy school.

How do you scare someone that doesn't value money though? What do you think you are going to get by holding on and resisting the disillusion.